March 27, 2010

Loose Lips Sink Spaceships


PrototypeOur tagline here at Reality Uncovered is a simple one: Searching for the answers, passionate about the truth. It has served us very well over the years, considering we are fighting against people who are making up the answers as they go along and lie so well it has become second nature to them.

Of course, we are talking about the people behind Scammers Inc, the group of villains and conmen that have managed to convince so many people about the “reality” of alien contact.

All it takes is just a little digging into the backgrounds of these people to realise what has really been going on over the years. Fabricate your past, make up an illustrious history, confirm each other’s stories and away you go. Rinse and repeat. It’s astonishing how easy it has been for them to get away with something so basic for so long.

Ram, Bam, Thank You Ma’am

Once in a while a wannabe will come along and make a play for their share of the pie – it is a pretty big pie, after all. One such wannabe is trying to sell this to anyone who will listen. There are other documents that come with this information, yours for a mere billion dollars apparently.

The introduction from the business plan:

In February, 2008, a select group of notable physicists, business leaders, and technical experts met at SARA Headquarters in Cypress, California.  The assembly was gathered by Gordon Novel of RAM P & T, Inc. for the purpose of demonstrating evidence of RAM P & T’s proprietary propulsion drive.  This breakthrough technology was intensively scrutinized by many of the 17 attendees, including top experts which arrived from NASA, ODNI, SARA, and other notable scientific institutions including those from as far away as Australia and Washington DC.  RAM experts went to the sources of the misunderstandings in common science by showing the point of error in many of the current text books being used to teach our post doctorate students today.   All supporting math was found to be valid for those top scientists who arrived with reservations they left with a new knowledge that the math and science was based on sound science.

RAM P & T (RAM) is seeking funding to build the next generation propulsion device, with knowledge gained from initial successful experiments and from solid, theoretical predictions. With initial funding of $20,000,000., some of which is in hand, we will be able to set up a new facility and start on a series of experiments that can complete the development of an environmentally safe, cheap and unlimited energy/propulsion source.  This lab work, Phase I of the project, lasting about 20 months, will confirm the predictions that this technology can produce net energy/lift. Phase II will develop the technology to the point of a commercially viable prototype. A successful completion of Phase I will essentially assure commercial success, as no new technology will be needed for Phase II. Total funding required by RAM for Phase I and II of this project is $220 M.  RAM believes that some Phase II funding may be available from current Phase 1 committed sources.

(Emphasis mine)

If there really are some committed sources, this particular author believes they really should be committed. To an insane asylum.

Back to Future, part 4

A "mini rig"

The above is just a very small part of the large document set that was leaked to us at RU by someone on the inside of the RAM project. The documents include a patent, business plan and various drafts and images. All in all it makes for hugely amusing reading.

Water, Water, Everywhere

Speaking of leaks, someone on the inside of the OM (Obnoxious Morons) team, recently contacted us and gave us some very interesting information. Some of it we already knew, and some of it we have long suspected. Some of it seemed like he might have been slipping us some false information in with the good.

Essentially, he told us that a certain Kit Green is at least three other people on that forum and is responsible for the majority of decisions the OM admin team make in certain situations. We’ll be reporting on some of this information in due course, but I did find it extremely interesting that two of these other supposed personas are Canadian.

During our Serpo investigation, ex team member “Centrist” told me how he had explained to Kit how he could connect to an ISP in another state or even country and hide his actual location from email and webservers. The example he used in his demonstration was Canada. Obviously, I can’t vouch for the authenticity of the story because I wasn’t there, but not long after that a certain member registered at OM from Canada and proceeded to become a right pain in the backside to seekers of truth everywhere. Oddly enough, both he and Kit share a very strong chinese connection…

The allegation of OM creating a particular hoax in order to drive up membership and forum activity is a serious one that we are currently actively investigating.

Stay tuned for further updates.



Filed under: Aviary,fringe science,The Core Story — Tags: , , , , , , , — Stephen Broadbent @ 3:03 am




96 Comments

  1. avatar

    […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Reality Uncovered, Stephen Broadbent. Stephen Broadbent said: Loose Lips Sink Spaceships http://bit.ly/brMrVm via @AddToAny […]

    Pingback by Tweets that mention Loose Lips Sink Spaceships « Reality Uncovered -- Topsy.com — March 27, 2010 @ 3:20 am

  2. avatar

    DANGER High Voltage!

    Comment by Access Denied — March 27, 2010 @ 4:10 am

  3. avatar

    hahaha…This is something I long suspected as well.

    Can’t wait for more

    Comment by murnut — March 27, 2010 @ 5:24 am

  4. avatar

    There has been a huge push on the Laura material at OM the last couple weeks. It seems to me that someone there is really pushing this material for a person or persons I call feeders. Feed it,push it,and watch to see how many sharks gather for the frinzy.

    Comment by ScaRZ — March 27, 2010 @ 12:40 pm

  5. avatar

    The ‘what the f*ck was that?’ question is the operative general question. Three question follow by logical extension and form the impetus for the entire field of speculation.

    1. Where do they come from?
    2. How did they get here? and-
    3. What do they want?

    The entirety of the vast body of Ufer literature is devoted- depending on the relative ambition of the author- to answering one or more of those three questions. It’s interesting that those very same queries also form the basis of all Philosophical, Metaphysical and Scientific investigation regarding the nature of existence per se.

    Drake’s Equation and Fermi’s paradox are typical of the concomitant blending of the fields. Both beg the largest of questions and demonstrate the futility of scientific method regarding a cohesive theory- the answer to the questions they pose. And why? Because both are based in presuppositions that are themselves unproven. It’s the nature of presuppositions to be assumptions derived from anecdotal data. That’s actually the contradiction that lies at the heart of all Ontological hypothesis and it necessarily substitutes ‘belief’ for ‘proof’ as the foundation of Theory. Such is the nature of human endeavor to provide a proof of any existents beyond the brackets of Logic and is the reason that rationalists insist that logic does not apply to the ‘real world’ except by the (tenuous) extrapolation of analogy.

    So this is the Epistemological dilemma in a nutshell: Every speculation concerning existence is ultimately founded in nothing more ‘proven’ than a leap of faith. Why should the study of Ufology escape conformity to this universal conundrum?

    Does all of this mean that, despite the contradictions and the futility, that the questions ought not be even asked in the first place? Certainly there are those who would say precisely that- that adherence to rational skepticism precludes flights of imaginative speculation. I’m not among them for one simple reason- a simple choice, really- a choice to be curious about the mind of God.

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 27, 2010 @ 1:27 pm

  6. avatar

    Kim,

    1. A very bad galactic neighborhood. The wrong side of the tracks, as it were.
    2. They jacked one of Gordon’s RAM drives.
    3. Krispy Kreme donuts. All of them.

    You have your answers. You’re welcome.
    Ray

    Comment by Ray — March 28, 2010 @ 12:59 am

  7. avatar

    Just a follow-up for the record. Followed up with Kit a little today, and while he does confirm that he IP related conversations took place with certain people, he denies the claim the he’s using sockpuppets at any forum. In fairness, I am including the excerpts of Dr. Green’s comments related to the IP issue.

    Kit writes, confirming one point:

    “I remember someone about three years ago from OM…telling me about the ip address stuff…you and I and Steve talked about that.”

    But also denies the following points:

    “I am not connected to Novel, and never have been. He puts my name on his lists, and named me without my permission to his Science Board…but I asked him to take me off, and I thought he did. That was about six months ago.

    The last paragraph is really nonsense…it makes no sense to me. I surely have never been on OM other than above, and have never, ever, ever, ever posted anywhere as another person than my own name. Ever. That is a lie, whoever told Steve that.”

    There are a few distinct things that I remember from the brief stint as an admin at OM, and that is when Steve traced the IP of Greatwaller and identified the person, address and phone number, Bren – the founder of OM – was mortified that we might call the person to confirm that he was really the identity posting on OM. Bren begged us not to.

    Secondly, the confirmation of OM contacting Kit and their various manipulations above is significant, in my opinion. It is no longer about banal forum wars or silly discussions about drones – the above information begs the question: Could OM be a front for foreign Intelligence? Could the manipulations by foreign owners and moderators, as well as the various sock-puppets, be dark intelligence operations of people who hope to infiltrate, thwart, distribute disinfo and otherwise disrupt United States intelligence?

    The odd behavior and activities of two particular foreign moderators, and the labeling of one particular Chinese member as a “member of honor” should set off warning flags for any American visiting the forum, who hopes to learn the truth about anything. In my opinion, if you wade onto OM, you are entering a manipulative quagmire of disinformation.

    -Ryan

    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 2:09 am

  8. avatar

    LOL Ryan. How many hours do you have logged talking with Ron now? Can you count that high? I have not even a second in case you’re wondering.

    So now your target is foreign nationals from Canada? LOL oh my . . . its fun to make things up, isn’t Ryan? After all, you have so much practice.

    Are you Christian enough to admit why? Or are Baptist/Catholic undecided, exempt from disclosure? Or is it exempt from honesty?, can’t remember which word is correct in this case.

    Did Ron ask you to bash OM Canadians with interests in China? Just wondering.

    I suspect others will wonder too.

    Jake

    cc: ready to post

    Comment by Jake reason — March 28, 2010 @ 3:38 am

  9. avatar

    Substitute “Foreign Intelligence” for “Scammers Inc” and you’re good to go.
    Ry, I can see why you would think such a thing (but only if I forget everything we’ve ever discussed for a moment), but seriously, there is absolutely no intelligence involved whatsoever, foreign or otherwise…

    For the record, anyone who gives an ounce of credence to anything Mr. Ron Pandolfi says, needs to have their temperature taken. When we do our background checking on the individuals involved in these scams and associated side stories, we do it on the people who sit on either side of the fence. At least, that’s what I do.

    If you believe Ron Pandolfi is a senior Intel figure for the US government, you might as well believe that the moon is made of cheese and we all go to Disneyland when we die.

    Further updates on the way.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 9:41 am

  10. avatar

    Steve – you *know* I don’t believe Ron is a senior Intel figure for the U.S…but that’s an entirely different story. As you pointed out well – OM is a safe haven for people who create scams, in fact I’m starting to think they, themselves, create scams in order to draw in more believers.

    Now – foreign intelligence agents do this in order to attract current and former government employees who are interested in Ufology (and there are many) in order to attempt to learn information that they have no right or access to learn. Whether they are actually foreign intel or not, what OM does certainly helps the cause of foreign intel by attracting current and former government employee “believers” like light attracts moths.

    Jake – As I’ve stated elsewhere, my own conversations with Ron extend no longer than OM’s Chris Iversen’s own conversations with Ron (not to mention dozens of other Ufologists). So your accusation is aimless (and to be honest, rather stupid considering the times I’ve gone after Ron). And as we’ve also stated elsewhere, I don’t believe that you are who you say you are, so your claimed nationality is really irrelevant. And finally, I find it very interesting that you made no comment about Steve’s mentioning that he now has a source who can prove that OM *creates* scams. To me – that’s the most important and revealing matter in all of this, and it’s what lead to my own speculations about OM’s motives for creating scams.

    The fact that you avoid the issue speaks volumes.

    -Ryan

    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 11:35 am

  11. avatar

    Ryan wrote:

    “Could OM be a front for foreign Intelligence? Could the manipulations by foreign owners and moderators, as well as the various sock-puppets, be dark intelligence operations of people who hope to infiltrate, thwart, distribute disinfo and otherwise disrupt United States intelligence?”

    LOL – Talk about paranoid! Do you really beleive this Ryan, or are you just tying to raise the profile of your dead forum and this obscure blog by associating it with OMF?

    For the record; I can say that you have been misinformed by your “source” and that your speculation is not only ‘wild’, i’is also just plain wrong!

    No need to reply, I have no desire to enter into a dialog here.

    Cheers,

    Lee

    (OMF Co-Admin)

    Comment by Lee — March 28, 2010 @ 11:46 am

  12. avatar

    Ryan, I wasn’t referring to you with my comment about Mr. Ron Pandolfi, although reading my comment above I can see how it comes across that way. No, that comment is aimed at *anyone* who believes he is an “official” source. I know you don’t :)

    You’re right about Jake’s response above though, it really does speak volumes.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 11:48 am

  13. avatar

    Just in case anyone was wondering, Ryan doesn’t know who my source from OM is. The person specifically asked me not to divulge their name to anyone, so I haven’t.

    Trust me Lee, the day this site becomes associated with OMF, is the day we close this site down and focus on something else entirely. Y’know, knitting or something.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 11:59 am

  14. avatar

    Lee – So basically, what you are saying is Steve should just ignore what the source is saying because it is wrong? Man, if only the admin team at OM took the same advice, Steve and I would probably be out of business at RU. How many times have OM admins posted information from such a “source?”

    Seems when the tables are turned, you suddenly have a problem with the approach?

    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 12:13 pm

  15. avatar

    Also, FYI:

    – Jake Reason is no longer a member of staff at OMF, he chose to retire several months ago.

    – Greatwaller is a moderator only and has no involvement with OMF admin level decisions.

    – Kit Green has only one account, named “CGreen”, and has never posted. Nor has he ever had any involvement with management decisions.

    Comment by Lee — March 28, 2010 @ 12:24 pm

  16. avatar

    Did I dream the bit about Greatwaller taking a hiatus from posting at OM, at exactly the same time Kit left for China last year?

    So, the RAM project, has anyone seen a spare flux capacitor lying around somewhere?

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 12:43 pm

  17. avatar

    Also FYI:

    – Makes no difference. “Jake” still drives the public discussion more than anyone else.

    – Greatwaller conveniently went on hiatus for a bit around the time Kit left for China (I’m just saying…this is the argument used to support the claim)

    – Yes, the account “CGreen” has never been used save to make one comment.

    -Ryan

    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 12:46 pm

  18. avatar

    Well, here’s a thought, Steve. If your “Source” is not an OMF Administrator, then he/she will not have access to our Admin level discussions, and consequently his/her info is irrelevant speculation at best and in fact, it is simply a lie.

    Again, FYI

    – The CGreen account has NEVER been used to post at OMF.

    – ‘Jakereason’ is no longer a member of staff at OMF, even if he “drives discussion” this is done independently, and so has no bearing on speculation about OMF management direction.

    – I do not have any details regarding the travel arrangements of Dr Green, so I cannot say whether they coincide with GW’s activity at OMF, or not. I can say that GW still posts occasionally and has made 7 posts this year. (Do you really believe that the ‘OK corral newsletter’ is something that would interest Dr Green?)

    Comment by Lee — March 28, 2010 @ 1:21 pm

  19. avatar

    We also have a private admin area but to suggest that is the only place we talk to each other would be a little silly.

    Umm, if a person were trying to hide their identity from the general public, they would hardly post from an account with their name on it, would they? I wish they would, it would make things much easier when trying to out them!

    Seriously, some people…

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 1:44 pm

  20. avatar

    The implication of Steve’s source, regardless of who it is, is huge….someone or something is at work at OM beyond what OM management would like members to believe. Whether it’s Chinese foreign Intel or simply Scammer’s Inc (which is far more likely) – OM is a safehaven for those who spread disinfo and manipulation throughout Ufology.

    Whoever Steve’s source is – I would say that the evidence of the past few years should imply to most readers that the person is fed up with the bastion of Ufology disinformation that’s called OM.

    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 2:00 pm

  21. avatar

    Steve, you missed the point!

    I was not referring to our ‘Admin board’ but to our bi-monthly Admin meetings which are conducted via various P2P systems and by voice, not text. That is where we make our decisions, Moderators do not attend, nor does Dr Green. Just the five current civillian Co-Owners.

    Ryan claimed that the ‘CGreen’ account had been used to post once…. He was wrong! That was the point.

    A bit of advice; why don’t you contact the Drone Research Team and see if they found any evidence that the staff at OMF were responsible for the Drone hoax. In fact, read the threads there and see where the evidence takes you.

    Now that both myself and Dr Green have denied your allegations, will you post a retraction of your libelous claims…? (I doubt it, but never mind, I’ve wasted enough time on this today.)

    Hmmmm, who’s the one distorting facts here? 😉

    Comment by Lee — March 28, 2010 @ 2:25 pm

  22. avatar

    Ok, I’ll come clean. Kit here. It is true, I’ve been utilizing the Jake Reason OMF account for the past four years. There is a real Jake Reason, however approx 3,000 of his posts were authored by myself. Jake’s real name is Ricardo Davichini. He resides in Inuit Bay, Greenland. His mother tells him his father was a Jesuit Priest traveling through. And thus is interest in Christology. He is an astronomer based at the Northern Canuck Mackenzie Observatory. And enjoys a part time business selling glacial water to the Chinese. Dan Smith is his second uncle, once removed.

    I can’t say that I feel any urgency to apologize for the joint use of the Jake Reason Avatar. It has been enjoyable. Time constraints however have now compelled me to back away from this project.

    Excellent sleuthing there Ryan. Your diversionary efforts are appreciated.

    Comment by Jake Reason — March 28, 2010 @ 2:32 pm

  23. avatar

    “There is a real Jake Reason…”

    Prove it.

    You know I’m real – I don’t hide my identity. In fact, you attempt to use what you *think* you know about me constantly – my family, my religion, etc….so let’s see a picture of you from today rather than the 1960’s black and white joke of a photo that looked like it came out of a 1960’s magazine? Better yet, let’s have a phone chat. I know what just about all of the folks within Scammer’s Inc sound like. So, let’s talk right now. Today. Up for it?

    By the way Lee – I didn’t ever say Kit used the CGreen account to post on OM. I told you exactly what Kit has said – that he posted a single comment and that’s it. If I said Kit used his Cgreen account on OM, show me the quote. You are attempting to distort this discussion.

    -Ryan

    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 2:48 pm

  24. avatar

    Steve – regardless of any of this, I hope your source shares more and lets you publish…I know I’m not alone when I say that I’m looking forward to finally reading the truth about OM. Sorry for going on a tangent from your original post – didn’t realize people would focus on my speculations and ignore your bombshell. Well…I’m not surprised of course…lol.

    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 2:57 pm

  25. avatar

    I have to say, JR’s last reply literally made me laugh out loud. Good work for once…

    I do find it extremely interesting that they have posted all of this in their RAM thread at OM, yet not one of them has commented on the actual information that is relevant to RAM itself.

    So yes, it has been a distraction from the point of the post, but whenever we have had dealings with them, the same thing has happened every single time.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 3:27 pm

  26. avatar

    Ryan wrote: “By the way Lee – I didn’t ever say Kit used the CGreen account to post on OM”

    So? Trying to divert again? You must think your audience is incapable of “critical thinking”.
    You alleged in your second paragraph under “Water, Water, Everywhere”, that C Green has used 3 personas at OMF and that two of them are Canadian.

    “Your religion”? It was you who told me that you attend both Baptist and Catholic services and hadn’t made up your mind. To each their own.

    “so let’s see a picture of you”? I have often switched my avatar to a current picture of myself over the last 2 years. Virtually all active members at OM know my name and personal history. I’m not a secret, and have shared a great deal of my life with the forum.

    You are being disingenuous Ryan. Not a very complimentary attribute.

    Comment by Jake Reason — March 28, 2010 @ 3:32 pm

  27. avatar

    John Hicks awakens.
    Quote:
    “I have nagging questions that bother me about the whole Source A thing…….why bring it only to the people who study Ufology? Why does this type of info again and again get directly targeted to online Ufo communities? Why is this not going into newspapers? At least get George Knapp involved. Outside of visiting this forum, no one discusses, cares, knows about, or gives a rats patootie about any Secret UN meeting or Source A. It is like it was designed just for little ole us. The Pickerings have a bar in a major city with plenty of professional journalists. Some of them are probably new young blood that would love to sink their teeth into this and at least attempt to verify some of it. But it seems like that is a no no. It is just for us little forum dwellers to discuss and discuss until 2017………..wow!”

    John’s question is critical: “Why bring it only to the people who study Ufology? Why does this type of info again and again get directly targeted to online UfO communities?” The answer, I believe, lies in IC Collections Agents methods of enabling, manipulating and studying the Ufer petri dish forums such as OM. It appears that Jed, a former OM moderator, finally has a sense of his forum members having been reduced to little more than lab rats by proactive CIA operatives who have conspired to co-opt and subvert the site for their own purposes. The purpose? Hold onto your hats- to emulate the secret seditious methods of the silent ET invasion. In a sense that would not be far from the mark it can be said that the worst fears of Gray Barker have come to fruition. The Men in Black are in actuality unexceptional, middle aged men in pin-striped suits. The only question that remains- and it the largest question of all- is at whose behest do these agents work? Are they ours or theirs? Who can we trust? Is their publication of a picture of the Saint Francis Church as a representation of a Serponian outpost designed to fool the lab rats or bewilder them? Is such obvious fraud designed for the purpose of separating out the credulous ‘true believers’ for further indoctrination and future pro-action on their behalf? It would appear so. And what is the glue used by these agents to maintain the integrity of their flocks? The promise of a fatuous ‘Disclosure’ that will never come about. That promise has also taken on religious implications and has become conflated with the inherent yearning of all true believing CTers to be counted among the ‘raptured’ in the approaching denouement of history. The role of savior is filled by one Dan T. Smith in the OMer community. Note that he has even referred to himself as the final Messiah in his long and tortured discourses on eschatology- a messiah who also admits to be on the control of a CIA handler by the name of Ron Pandolfi. Smith makes no secret of this connection but rather revels in it.

    John Hicks is finally sensing all this but has yet to fully understand the implications. I look for his eventual silencing by the OM moderation team just as they’ve seen fit to silence other members and syndicates who have attempted to expose their cultist alliance with the post-modern MIBs.

    I would ask all Amkoids who are still a members there to publish the above analysis on their forum in the interests of truth.
    __________________
    Luddite Liberation Front

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 28, 2010 @ 3:37 pm

  28. avatar

    Stephen Broadbent writes: “If you believe Ron Pandolfi is a senior Intel figure for the US government, you might as well believe that the moon is made of cheese and we all go to Disneyland when we die.”

    What is the basis for the above statement? It is a matter of the Congressional Research Service that Pandolfi was a CIA analyst who wrote a National Intelligence Estimate and was later called to testify about this estimate by the Senate Select Intelligence Committee.

    http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA467313&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

    Pandolfi is also listed as the person who is responsible for tasking JASON in his position with ODNI/MASINT.

    http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/

    High Frequency Gravitational Waves, JSR-08-506, October 2008

    JASON was asked by staff at the National MASINT Committee of ODNI to evaluate the scientific, technological, and national security significance of high frequency gravitational waves (HFGW). Our main conclusions are that the proposed applications of the science of HFGW are fundamentally wrong; that there can be no security threat; and that independent scientific and technical vetting of such hypothetical threats is generally necessary.

    http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/gravwaves.pdf

    19a. NAME OF RESPONSIBLE PERSON
    Dr. Ronald Pandolfi

    We are especially grateful to Ronald Pandolfi and Mark Pesses of ODNI
    for their continued help in arranging briefers and documentation; they were
    ably assisted by Paul Flemming and Sara Shelton. We benefited from briefings
    by Robert Baker, Gary Stephenson, Paul Murad, Patricia Walters,
    Ronald Pandolfi, Kevin Pollpeter, and Mark Pesses.

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — March 28, 2010 @ 4:05 pm

  29. avatar

    I said “is”.

    I know all about what he used to do.

    Edit to add:
    Jakereason, you might want to check the name of the author of this article, it’s right at the bottom of the article.

    If you can get basic things like that wrong, well, you get my drift.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 4:12 pm

  30. avatar

    “I said ‘is’.”

    Petri Dish Collections Department, MIB

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 28, 2010 @ 4:21 pm

  31. avatar

    This is just awesome…so nice to have the gang altogether!
    Years ago…when I was a member at Obnoxious Morons (LOL)…I had a few pm conversations with the Dr.
    They were interesting and I enjoyed them very much….so although Dr. Green has not posted, his presence at OM is undeniable. The question is how much influence?

    Comment by murnut — March 28, 2010 @ 4:24 pm

  32. avatar

    hahaha How long before Shawanna and Wayne show up?

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 28, 2010 @ 4:32 pm

  33. avatar

    I assuming the source is Dan…he basically told me something similar about the Green connection(s) months ago…(although not the sock puppet thingy).

    But GW as a spy? If he is, he isn’t aware of it

    Comment by murnut — March 28, 2010 @ 4:37 pm

  34. avatar

    Stephen, “is” as a qualifier in this affair seems irrelevant given the activity has been around for a long, long time.

    It makes as much sense as saying “If you believe George W. Bush is the President of the US government, you might as well believe that the moon is made of cheese and we all go to Disneyland when we die.”

    …in the context of, how about the war in Iraq.

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — March 28, 2010 @ 4:40 pm

  35. avatar

    Not really Gary, I don’t see how a comparison with a former president of the United States and a former CIA analyst are at all relevant to what I wrote. Or are you trying to say Ron is a former director or something?

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 4:46 pm

  36. avatar

    For the record, Dan Smith is not my source of the OM information. I’ve had many discussions with Dan on the phone, but apart from idle speculation on both our parts, nothing like this.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 5:06 pm

  37. avatar

    Well who is it then?

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 28, 2010 @ 5:35 pm

  38. avatar

    I’m always suspicious of mysterious, unnamed sources. You?

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 28, 2010 @ 5:36 pm

  39. avatar

    @Gary, what pray tell does Ron having evaluated some bogus scientific claims made or promoted by persons with possible ties to foreign intelligence services have to do with UFOs and “disclosure”?

    (that’s a rhetorical question by the way)

    Comment by Access Denied — March 28, 2010 @ 5:41 pm

  40. avatar

    I don’t blame Steve for protecting his source…I would do the same thing.

    However…Dan has a history of blabbing…and he told me something very similar.

    Extremely similar…except the sock accounts. Dan and Steve can deny it all they want…but no one else on the OM staff other than the Admins(Jake included) have the knowledge or the background to know what they are talking about.

    It can’t be an admin…that group is too tight (tightly wrapped…lol).

    Maybe Jed…although it doesn’t seem his style.

    Sounds exactly like Dan’s style though…freshly off suspension for a week…I wonder what he was doing?

    Comment by murnut — March 28, 2010 @ 5:44 pm

  41. avatar

    Tom, precisely. Ron has a physics background so it makes sense he would be involved in something like the HFGW report.

    Kim, see Mur’s post. Lol.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 5:52 pm

  42. avatar

    Well it does sound like something Dan would say- but what is it about his background that would lead one to believe that the Messiah is telling the truth? And if he’s telling you the truth in this instance why should you not believe him when he says that Ron is an active IC handler? I personally think Dan has been Bennewitzed.

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 28, 2010 @ 6:02 pm

  43. avatar

    Sometimes Dan hit’s a home run…sometimes he strikes out.

    This could be one or the other…or a bunt, sacrifice, single, double etc.

    Time will tell…but where there is smoke….there’s fire…hahaha

    Comment by murnut — March 28, 2010 @ 6:12 pm

  44. avatar

    You’ve got a greater admiration for his batting average than I do, apparently.

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 28, 2010 @ 6:22 pm

  45. avatar

    Oh come on…he is at least a .300 hitter

    Comment by murnut — March 28, 2010 @ 6:42 pm

  46. avatar

    “By the way Lee – I didn’t ever say Kit used the CGreen account to post on OM. I told you exactly what Kit has said – that he posted a single comment and that’s it. If I said Kit used his Cgreen account on OM, show me the quote. You are attempting to distort this discussion.”
    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 2:48 pm

    Here you go:

    “- Yes, the account “CGreen” has never been used save to make one comment.”
    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 12:46 pm
    _______________________

    So, lets summarize:

    – Steve has a “source within OM”, we all know it’s not one of the five Co-Owners. Mur thinks it’s Dan. Steve Denies.

    – Dan is a special Guest at OMF and not technically staff, as such he is not privy to Admin level decision making.

    – According to Steve’s source, Jakereason and Greatwaller are both sock puppets for Dr Green. Jakereason, Dr Green and myself have all denied the accusations. (Could anybody really take this seriously?)

    – Furthermore, Steve’s “Source” alleges that Dr Green is secretly influencing OMF Admin level decision making. (Would he really care whether we banned Mur, toon, etc? Come on…) Both myself and Dr Green have denied this also. (Again, why would he even care about the details of forum management? The vast majority of our meeting time is spend discussing offensive posts and the like…)

    – Finally, Steve’s anonymous source claims that OMF staff perpetrated the Drone hoax to “drive up membership”. I will deny this too, but anybody who followed the Drone story will know how ridiculous this allegation really is.

    In conclusion, Steve and Ryan have once again posted baseless accusations, not only against Open Minds Forum and it’s owners, but also Dr Green, and two private individuals known as ‘JakeReason’ and ‘Greatwaller’. Even in light of all this they will probably not retract the original statement and only continue to attempt to draw us into further debate.

    Why did I not comment on RAM? I have little interest in the topic. The real question is why did the final section the the above article completely diverge from the RAM subject…? I think I found the answer with my first post of the day.

    Comment by Lee — March 28, 2010 @ 6:43 pm

  47. avatar

    Finally, Steve’s anonymous source claims that OMF staff perpetrated the Drone hoax to “drive up membership”. I will deny this too, but anybody who followed the Drone story will know how ridiculous this allegation really is. Comment by Lee — March 28, 2010 @ 6:43 pm

    Perpetrated the drone hoax? I can’t say that this is the case 100%…however OMF certainly protected and perpetuated the hoax from being discovered time and time again. That is a fact that anyone connected with the the drone hoax with half a brain shares. One Example…the embarrassing lack of respect for Carrion who was right in thinking the whole drone caper was a hoax.

    Green maybe does not have a hand in the day to day operations of the OMF admin team….if anything he is steering the concepts that allow hoaxes to thrive.
    For instance the concept that says everything is true wrt ufo’s and other conspiracy theories unless you can disprove it.

    The real world says nothing is true unless you can prove it.
    This allows hoaxes and obvious hoaxes a place to exist…..Example Orionflo Phil, Serpo, Seinu, Drones, Source A and countless others

    I’m thrilled to be banned at OMF. I’d much rather be able to speak my mind without the thought police deciding their opinion of my opinion.

    Comment by murnut — March 28, 2010 @ 7:22 pm

  48. avatar

    My comments on the above click below
    http://stardrive.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=416:loose-lips-sink-space-ships-&catid=45:weird-desk&Itemid=103

    Comment by Jack Sarfatti — March 28, 2010 @ 7:22 pm

  49. avatar

    Greatswallower is Jakethumper’s puppet. That’s pretty clear.

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 28, 2010 @ 7:24 pm

  50. avatar

    Yes Lee, let’s indeed summarise.

    My actual words, not your made-up version:
    “Some of it we already knew, and some of it we have long suspected. Some of it seemed like he might have been slipping us some false information in with the good.”
    and also:
    …but I did find it extremely interesting that two of these other supposed personas are Canadian.”
    Now, do the words ‘false’ and ‘supposed’ mean anything to you? When taken in context, it becomes quickly apparent that sure, I know some of that information to be true, but I also have reason to believe that some of it may be suspect.

    Ryan then followed up with a comment of his own (one that I personally didn’t agree with and mentioned as much in my reply) where he wrote this:
    “The odd behavior and activities of two particular foreign moderators,”
    Now, where did he say two particular ‘Canadian’ moderators? Obviously someone must have a guilty conscience, because up pops Jake in the very next comment and writes:
    “So now your target is foreign nationals from Canada?”
    Very clever. If your game is obfuscation, that is.

    Ryan then posted:
    “OM is a safe haven for people who create scams, in fact I’m starting to think they, themselves, create scams in order to draw in more believers.”

    What does that tell you? To me, it tells you that I have not told Ryan the details of the particular scam I was referring to and I certainly haven’t mentioned it in any of my comments here either. Yet you write:
    “Finally, Steve’s anonymous source claims that OMF staff perpetrated the Drone hoax to “drive up membership”.”

    I find it extremely interesting that without any prompting from me you automatically assume the hoax the source is referring to is the Drone hoax. Guilty conscience again? Ditto to Jake for automatically assuming one of the sockpuppets was him. Nicely done.

    Now, could you please explain to me how Kit influencing OMF admin decisions equates to him posting on that forum under his own name? Where did I write he decides who gets banned and who doesn’t?
    I specifically mentioned ‘direction’ in ‘certain situations’. Banning and suspensions was not one of those situations, btw.

    Finally, as for “baseless”…

    “I surely have never been on OM other than above”

    Okaaaaay then…! All one has to do is check when the member was last logged in. Also, Mur has already confirmed having discussions with him at OM.

    Same shit, different day.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 7:52 pm

  51. avatar

    Now isn’t this interesting…

    I found it puzzling that Jake would come steaming in and automatically assume that Ryan was referring to Canadian nationals in his “foreign nationals” comment above. At first I laughed to myself and thought that’s what a guilty conscience does to you.

    But then I decided to read through my emails of the last two days again, and look at what I found.
    In a private exchange between Ryan and Kit, Ryan wrote the following:
    “There are characters that write like you sometimes, use similar unique grammar, and weird coincidences like one is an old. Chinese man named Greatwaller and one is a Canadian from Toronto who often sends emails from a similar Canadian domain as you sometimes have.”

    Now I’m left wondering if that was a guilty conscience after all, or simply a case of “prior knowledge”… 😉

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 28, 2010 @ 8:16 pm

  52. avatar

    Said JS (in his denial of the possibility of ET visitation cum ‘invasion’) “If ET craft are here then they must have a warp drive/stargate technology beyond our grasp but not beyond our physics understanding.”

    Given the vast body of evidence of the presence here of ET crafts and occupants it would follow that yes they do in fact posses ‘technology beyond our grasp.’ And so? The only alternative to such a conclusion would be to dismiss the evidence- as so wonderfully aggregated by the likes of Richard Dolan, Stan Friedman, James McDonald, Tim Good and others- as one huge pile of bullshit and lies. Are you ready to make such an assertion?

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 28, 2010 @ 8:34 pm

  53. avatar

    So, grades are due and coming in. Alas, some have flunked, and flunked dumb. Hardly an affair to panic over, is it? Yet oh my for many at OM, responding to accusations that were holes in the floor, blanks filled. Pushing to fall with the sky well intact. Some air has been let out, that is almost for sure, and some forced laughter seeping through the type. As for JakeReason, well, I believe him, or at least most of the time per time accused. If Kit pushes there, as he, meaning Reason, was not accused, he, being Green, would have to be unemployed- Who has the time to waste that much time? It is a Watch on a corpse, watched. Ron? EdK dropped bombs, Dan ‘confirms’ with other hand, nearly off-handedly. Who knows which hand knows what the other is doing? And who is watching the Watch? The arrow that flies the farthest is the one that hits its mark. Alas, the target was a ruse. Alphonse Karr was right. E Swedenborg was right (see page 179, Dutton paperback). And most of all, Voltaire was right- God is a comedian performing for an audience too afraid to laugh.

    Comment by Puppetburglar — March 28, 2010 @ 8:56 pm

  54. avatar

    OMF admins have been caught lying plenty of times…but they never admit to any mistakes…ever.

    Case in point

    http://www.realityuncovered.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1666&start=0

    Spin that Obnoxious Morons

    Comment by murnut — March 28, 2010 @ 9:46 pm

  55. avatar

    Lee, I asked you to show me where I said Kit has been using his account, and you quoted where I said his account has “never been used save to make one comment.” He’s the one who said he posted one comment with the account (but that it was banal), it’s not a claim on my part – so what is your point? If it’s an untruth, then it’s his.

    Jake – your chest-pounding aside, where’s the phone call that would lay it all to rest? Let’s do it.

    Steve’s catch above is a major eye-opener – he’s right, I did not say a word about Canadian foreign nationals except in an email to Kit – then you responded with that phrase, interesting…

    -Ryan

    Comment by RyanDube — March 28, 2010 @ 10:29 pm

  56. avatar

    Bloody hell!! You folks have been derailed once again. Double standards abound by four forums. Children, when shall you awake from stupidity?!

    Comment by R. Kennett — March 28, 2010 @ 10:49 pm

  57. avatar

    Jake asked “@Dan, can you set the record straight?”

    Dan replied “Well, Ron has always said that I was in charge of the Aquarium, so I must be the puppet-master, in my subconscious.”

    Andy remarks” I’m glad that’s settled…lol”

    Comment by murnut — March 28, 2010 @ 10:55 pm

  58. avatar

    Steve wrote: “Now I’m left wondering if that was a guilty conscience after all, or simply a case of “prior knowledge”… ”

    Ryan wrote: “Steve’s catch above is a major eye-opener – he’s right, I did not say a word about Canadian foreign nationals except in an email to Kit – then you responded with that phrase, interesting…”

    So what can’t you figure out boys? Let me quote Steve’s article, AGAIN:

    “Essentially, he told us that a certain Kit Green is at least three other people on that forum and is responsible for the majority of decisions the OM admin team make in certain situations. We’ll be reporting on some of this information in due course, but I did find it extremely interesting that two of these other supposed personas are Canadian.”

    Read your own words! Hello!? you think I can’t figure out what is being said there? You suggest I would HAVE to be receiving emails from Kit to figure out you’re are talking about me as one of those personas? Oooooooo

    Ok I’ll come clean. Kit’s emails are all auto copied to “security oversight”. And where is that? It’s at the Northern Canuck Mackenzie Observatory in Inuit Bay, Greenland.

    Call you Ryan? Sorry I prefer not to chat with disingenuous people. Besides, I have to step out and cut some ice blocks. We use them to heat the Observatory up to a balmy 31 degrees F.

    Jake

    Comment by Jake Reason — March 28, 2010 @ 11:48 pm

  59. avatar

    Inuit Bay
    70 38’14.47″ N 51 20’43.72″ W

    I live in the red coloured house here.

    70 30’04.82″ N 51 18’02.12″ W

    Comment by Jake Reason — March 29, 2010 @ 12:35 am

  60. avatar

    “Call you Ryan? Sorry I prefer not to chat with disingenuous people. Besides, I have to step out and cut some ice blocks. We use them to heat the Observatory up to a balmy 31 degrees F.”

    Yeah – that’s exactly what I thought you’d say.

    And once again, you’re backpedaling. You can’t get out of this one so easy (you’re not on OM…)

    This is exactly what you wrote:

    “So now your target is foreign nationals from Canada? LOL oh my . . . its fun to make things up, isn’t Ryan?”

    As you can see, your comment was directed at me, not toward Steve or to his last paragraph as you are now trying to claim. And in my public comment before that post about foreign intel, I hadn’t said a word about foreign nationals from Canada – in fact my reference was to Chinese. You responded directly to my post and started up about the “Canadian foreign national” business. Steve’s point is a good one.

    So the question of the day is: Who do you work for “Rick” – Which group of scammers is it? How’s the pay? $1 a day….or more in consideration of your family?

    Oh, hey, congratulate OM administrator Chris Iversen for me, on the contract he received from Kit Green for the Australian company Global Mind Screen, Ltd. Good to know he and Kit are so tight. Does he receive contracts from Ron too?

    -Ryan

    Comment by RyanDube — March 29, 2010 @ 2:55 am

  61. avatar

    Alas, when the ventromedial paths, attempting to emulate (read- override, a priori) the lateral paths (and what happens therein is none of my business), you see from seeking the mirage of ‘is’, and the game afoot confuses the door for ‘a jar’. The mood is moot and ubiquitous.
    Disclosure- only Dr. Kit Green really knows what I just winked, and paranoid considerations will seek all the wrong kones.
    Of course, I could be more specific- please, any of you, give me a reason…

    Comment by Puppetburglar — March 29, 2010 @ 7:24 am

  62. avatar

    Puppertburglar:

    Wracking my brain to think of a reason………

    In the meantime though, and of far more importance, would you please kindly ask your relative to return my property? Having recently invested in several pairs of very nice socks I’m getting increasingly upset when I go to retrieve them from the washing machine only to discover someone has pinched one -obviously for some nefarious motive! Please see link to website as evidence.

    Comment by Caryn — March 29, 2010 @ 11:49 am

  63. avatar

    This is all starting to remind me of that great kerfuffle at Wyzwyrlde a few years ago- especially now that Richard Kennett has shown up again. Who’s missing? Springer, Centrist and Shawannna? Hi Caryn!

    Comment by Kim Walker — March 29, 2010 @ 12:37 pm

  64. avatar

    “Wracking my brain to think of a reason………”

    Here’s America’s real problem concerning UFOs. We are a country whose greatest science minds are devoted to solving the conundrum of how many gallons of vile crud need to be burned in order to fly one contraption, three men and a bomb from Blefuscu to lilliput. We’re a backwater popsicle-stand of a planet and only of passing interest to the advanced civilizations visiting us.

    _________________
    And I should remark that I am saving my insults for Toon for “just the right time” when I will strike at his soft, white underbelly for maximum damage and humiliation. Ray Hudson 2007

    Comment by cartoonsyndicate™ — March 29, 2010 @ 12:54 pm

  65. avatar

    Hi Kim, To be honest all of the above is way beyond me – I can only refer to my own research on sockpuppets. During that research I was alarmed at the sheer volume of people around the world experiencing missing sock syndrome-I thought it was just me! Anyhow, I got an anonymous tip off this morning which led me to the linked website (click on my name). The lengths these monsters will go to in order to exploit a sock. It’s sick, sick, sick!

    Comment by Caryn — March 29, 2010 @ 1:22 pm

  66. avatar

    “Secondly, the confirmation of OM contacting Kit and their various manipulations above is significant, in my opinion. It is no longer about banal forum wars or silly discussions about drones – the above information begs the question: Could OM be a front for foreign Intelligence? Could the manipulations by foreign owners and moderators, as well as the various sock-puppets, be dark intelligence operations of people who hope to infiltrate, thwart, distribute disinfo and otherwise disrupt United States intelligence?”

    lol….Openminds is a discussion forum where a whole lot of believers congregate. To elevate it to something as exotic as a foreign intelligence operation is laughable in my opinion. Greatwaller has always been an enigma to me along with the way Bren took him under his wing. I know nothing of Greatwaller’s real name or identity but I can confirm for you that Rick Davis is a Canadian citizen.
    We have spoken and unless Kit Green does a perfect Canadian accent, I can safely vouch for Rick.

    As far as a source at OM providing Stephen this information…..I highly doubt there is a source. It is more than likely a simple misinformation ploy to make the accusations sound more believable and to cause dissention and division among the OM staff. I doubt it will work.

    I look forward to whatever you guys turn up but I suspect it will not be much in relation to the said accusations.

    Comment by jeddyhi — March 30, 2010 @ 5:25 pm

  67. avatar

    This genre is well known, well known, for attracting more than its fair share of the lunatic fringe.
    The open minds forum caters to these ppl almost exclusivly.
    There is the odd genuine person there looking for the answers we all are, but the vast majority of its posters and admins, are barking mad, crackpots, the chronically insane.

    Some of these people clearly have severe mental and psychiatric problems, and the owners/admin rather obviously encourage them, no doubt with the intent to discredit the entire field in doing so.

    Anyone researching UFO’s and related phenomena, coming across OMF as a point of first call, would likely walk away from the entire genre shaking their head, its well known in the greater UFO research community OMF is a sad den of delusional nutjobs.

    A Topological view of the OMF site and the people it encourages clearly paints it as a Disinformation site.

    There can be no other logical conclusion

    Comment by Aussie Mike — March 30, 2010 @ 11:07 pm

  68. avatar

    Mike from Down Under. Love your country, I spent a four months treking around awhile back.

    Just a quick analysis of your comments . . .

    As of today at the time of this post;

    – OM has (5055-342) 4,713 more Members than RU
    – OM has (211,588-23,090) 188,432 more Posts than RU
    – OM has (7138-13890) 5,749 more Topics of Discussion than RU

    5,749 More Topics!

    – OM also has seven Special Guests with their own Boards on the forum. RU has none.
    – Three of which are broadcasters.
    – Virtually ALL the biggest UFO release type stories of the past four years are represented on OM, and in most cases OM was recognised by the ‘releasors’ as their forum of first choice.
    – OM has been plugged on the front page of the L.A. Times, on Fox TV News, and CNN.

    So Mike, somehow I don’t think your description of OpenMindsForum, presents a reasonable picture of reality.

    But hey, I still Love Australia.

    Comment by Jake Reason — March 31, 2010 @ 12:18 am

  69. avatar

    Well Jake young fella me lad,
    At least none of the RU mods have “scanned” me and then publically posted that im “not human” as one of the Mods as OMF did.

    Seriously, one of the mods at OMF stated as absolute fact, based on his personal expertise that i am undoubtably an “alien” .
    Not one of the owners stepped in to ask for the burden of proof, of their mod, other batshit insane posters soon took up the call, and based on the stated fact as espoused by this OMF mod began posting im an ET…………..

    Truth is, im as human as you are, the only logical explaination is the Mod in question is mentally unhinged.
    Thats the only answer that fits, or do you too insist that im an alien, non human……………….

    As for the numbers, they back my premise, that being that there are considerable numbers of the lunatic fringe attracted to this genre, and they more or less exclusivly hang out at OMF.

    As you point out, literally thousands of them.
    No doubt because OMF activley encourages their delusions

    Comment by Aussie Mike — March 31, 2010 @ 2:35 am

  70. avatar

    @Jake, so how many of those thousands of posts are devoted to topics “mainstream” UFOlogy dismissed soon after they were “released” and OM is still “contemplating” the “disclosure implications” of years later? Let’s see…

    30,000 California Drones Hoax
    16,000 Source “A” Hoax
    12,000 Serpo Hoax (+1,000 Seinu)
    12,000 John Lear
    8,000 Exopolitics
    8,000 Stephenville Lights

    Not counting the Serpo investigation (some 4,000 posts) resulting in a number of articles revealing the “Men Behind the Curtain “ of Scammers Inc., RU figured all that stuff out in a handful of threads.

    What took you all so long and what have you done for UFOlogy lately?

    Here at RU the name of the game is quality not quantity…

    Comment by Access Denied — March 31, 2010 @ 2:56 am

  71. avatar

    Lets not forget Doves 50 seperate posts at a time in the spot of serenity thread……………

    lots of fluff, little or no useful stuff

    Comment by Aussie Mike — March 31, 2010 @ 3:07 am

  72. avatar

    Or Fore’s, or Dan’s blogs….. Page after page after page after page of self agrandising delusional drivel.

    Comment by Aussie Mike — March 31, 2010 @ 3:10 am

  73. avatar

    No offense Jake, but Aussie Mike’s comments are on target.
    Quantity doesn’t equal Quality.
    Many of these so called releases you speak of are in conflict with each other.
    There’s no coherency between these phony stories.
    Clearly the reality Jake, is that hoaxers and scammers have a home at OMF.
    The con men aren’t welcome here…nor are they welcome anywhere but your precious OM.
    OMF is not the reality you think it is.
    And yes, I’m banned at OM…repeatedly and I’m better for it.
    Let me save you the trouble of you or one of your OMies saying I’m just a disgruntle ex-member.
    Funny how it took them 7500 posts to figure out what a bad guy I am.
    Maybe it was because I asked too many questions about the “releases” you’re so proud of?
    And I’m not disgruntled, I’m thrilled to be away from the cult of OM.
    But I feel compelled to call it as I see it….and that was something I wasn’t afforded at OM.
    Free speech may not be pretty or always 100% respectful, however if OM really believed that these topics were so important, the conversations would not be steered or censored or silenced.
    And let’s not forget that OM does not allow a critical discussions of OM moderator or Admin actions or policies. That’s about as open minded as sticking your head in the sand.
    OM is a fraud bigger than Serpo, Seinu, Drones, Lt. Cmdr A….and now the Laura “Mars” Ike baloney.
    They only exist because of OMF.
    OMF is a blight on Ufology…growing like a cancer.
    Just think of me, RU and those like us as Chemotherapy.
    Personally, I don’t think you’re a bad guy….but you’re too close to realize just how arrogant you’ve become…the same is true for the remaining Admins….and OM as a whole.
    You think you and OM is the story and more important than the actual phony stories you discuss.
    Do you really believe that reality?

    Cheers

    Comment by murnut — March 31, 2010 @ 3:25 am

  74. avatar

    Well said, Aussie. That OM draws so much madness into its room proves only the weavers hand is trapped in the loom. Or not? One can imagine it as a well threaded net, with a variety of hands along the perimeter, waiting. Questions again- which hand knows what the other is doing, and who watches the Watch? Mere opinion- It’s fascinating crap. Enough said? No. The Phenomena exists. OM- Disinformation (and inevitably misinformation) well threaded into a particular and long seeped (and steeped) cultural cognitive imperative? Hypnosis for the credulous? Intended? I’m leaning over perhaps and looking down… For my own curiosity.
    And Caryn, I know no one who goes about nicking laundry of any sort. As for me, I stitch eyes only on those socks I bought with my own money, receipts in hand. For now.

    Comment by Puppetburglar — March 31, 2010 @ 3:39 am

  75. avatar

    @murnut, some very good points. However you say, “OMF is not the reality you think it is.”
    Oh, I intimately know what the Reality of OMF is all about.

    “Many of these so called releases you speak of are in conflict with each other.” Exactly!

    “There’s no coherency between these phony stories.” Such as it seems on the surface. Hence my avatar 😉

    @Access Denied: OM is not as tribe, given to a focused view.

    OMF is a Crucible.

    Comment by Jake Reason — March 31, 2010 @ 4:32 am

  76. avatar

    I think its important to qualify the crucible analogy with the reality that such is the impurity of the contents, we are left with little more than slag as a final product.

    Comment by Aussie Mike — March 31, 2010 @ 6:35 am

  77. avatar

    “OMF is a Crucible,” says Jake. IC Petri dish is more apt. But it’s good to see Jake Thumper acknowledge it all the same. The Aussie pretty well nailed it. Bren has enabled a ufer cult. Consider that the sooper mod, Foreskin, blathers relentlessly about his alien lover, Princess Evil- and that Dan Smith has proclaimed himself the Messiah. Oh my. No ban hammer for those scammers! But for anyone who outs the insanity? Banned and damned! Good work, Jake.

    Comment by smokey — March 31, 2010 @ 1:30 pm

  78. avatar

    But lest I risk my reputation as an equal opportunity abuser let me append this to my last comment:

    JakeThumper makes a point worth considering about RU though. The place had so much promise and then it was turned over to locked-mind Phil Klass style debunkers like AD and Ray Hudson. They killed the joint. It’s too bad because I don’t think the Ryan and Steve are themselves closed minded. Remember AD’s shameless marginalization of the Lonnie Zamora encounter? He should have been shitcanned after that bullshit. Said AD, “Here at RU the name of the game is quality not quantity…” But that is not entirely true. The game has all too often been steered into ‘gratuitous debunkery.’

    Comment by smokey — March 31, 2010 @ 1:44 pm

  79. avatar

    Thanks for your comments Smokey (and everyone else for that matter). I appreciate your comments about the debunkers here – but I have to say that without healthy skepticism there really wouldn’t be a good balance. You’d be surprised at the conversations that go on behind the scenes. In order to avoid becoming another cult-fad cauldron of insanity like OM and so many other UFO forums – its a *very* delicate balance and at times one that is very difficult to maintain.

    Without AD – I’ll be honest with you here – I would have driven RU down a similar road as those other forums just for the sake of appealing to the mindless masses. Steve is actually the moderate one, even though at times he comes across as an avid debunker in public…and keep in mind that both AD and Steve have had their own experiences that one could call “paranormal.” But we now have an important balance, between the three of us, that allows us manage how this website and forum examines these wacky topics, but still maintain a semblance of sanity.

    And I have to say – just gauging the sentiment from many other bloggers and authors out there on the web who are trying to take the study of various phenomenon seriously – they are just as sick of the nutters as you and I are. This growing sentiment tells me that RealityUncovered is on the cusp of a new movement. It may not be the most popular yet – but I believe the world is headed in that direction.

    Yes – this is the currently the road less traveled, but as AD and others here have pointed out, it’s quality not quantity that matters. The sign of failure in the near-future for any website that wants to be taken seriously in this field is when you’ve started catering to the masses for the sake of traffic, rather than adhering to principles of logic and critical thinking – essentially becoming another Wal-Mart of Ufology.

    I have to say – reading the comments above from everyone is very, very encouraging to me. And I needed that just about now. Thanks everyone.

    “Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.”
    -Robert Frost

    Comment by RyanDube — March 31, 2010 @ 2:35 pm

  80. avatar

    We should never allow “healthy skepticism” to substitute for adherence to some sort of bland status quo. ‘Explaining’ is not the same as ‘explaining away.’ You’ve allowed this AD character to drain all sense of wonder and novelty from this site by marginalizing any alternative speculations concerning encounters with the highly strange. That’s Randi’s job, not yours. It’s a retreat to safety in the face of dangerous thoughts. We know but a tiny fraction of the grand scheme of existence. Philosophers are wont to declare that logic applies to Ps and Qs and not to creation per se. If we’re truly ‘searching for the answers, passionate about the truth’ we cannot preclude imagination from our discourse out of some sort of misplaced affinity for mundane, ‘logical’ sets of explication. And, of course, as to your appeal to Frost- the mundane is precisely the road most traveled.

    Comment by toon — March 31, 2010 @ 3:28 pm

  81. avatar

    I wasn’t going to discuss this aspect of the article until I was sure about what was going on. So, here we go.

    Firstly, I never said someone from the OM admin team contacted me, what I said was “someone on the inside of the OM (Obnoxious Morons) team”. There is a big difference. For one thing, if any of those people in the inner admin circle had contacted me and was offering some inside information, I would have known immediately that some kind of sting was going on. It wouldn’t make any sense whatsoever for them to do so.

    The person who contacted me claimed he had information about OM, which he had learned first hand from one of the admins. He didn’t tell me who it was, but one of the things he did tell me led me to believe it was Chris Iversen and also led me to believe that there might be something to his information. Of course, I was suspicious. He didn’t want me to tell anyone, he only contacted me via secure email and wouldn’t agree to a telephone call. Like I’m going to trust someone like that without receiving any hard evidence.

    Like I said in the main article, “Some of it we already knew, and some of it we have long suspected. Some of it seemed like he might have been slipping us some false information in with the good.”

    That false information is what I believe was the whole point of this person getting in touch with me. The stuff about Greatwaller was nothing new (yes, he specifically mentioned him by name) and even the stuff about Kit Green’s influence was something that has long been suspected and not only by us at Reality Uncovered. One only has to read these comments to realise that wasn’t exactly a bombshell. Kit’s email to Ryan of the 27th March, only serves to further reinforce that position.

    Kit writes:
    “I am not now, and never have been on OM except once…again three years ago…for signing up…under my own name. Never posted anything except one comment, but it was really boring.”

    Now, we KNOW that isn’t true! Why would he lie about such a thing? The OM admins have already confirmed Kit’s account is ‘cgreen’, and all you have to do is check the member details to see that he last visited there in December of last year, hardly three years ago!
    link: http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=cgreen

    Also, If Kit only ever visited once, who was Murnut having those pm conversations with? Lee’s adamant insistence that Kit has never posted at OM, conveniently ignoring the fact that is not what was said or implied by my comments, only served to further convince me that the rumour about his influence was most likely very close to the truth.

    The information that I suspected to be false, however, is what I think was the real reason behind the contact. The source told me he had evidence that the ridiculous Drone hoax was in fact an OM operation. Not exactly a revelation considering – again – that is something people have suspected for some time, but if he seriously thought I would come out and publish something along those lines without any evidence, then he was both seriously deluded and stupid to boot. Hmm, where have I seen those attributes before…

    I was hopeful the source would be forthcoming with such evidence, but, of course he wasn’t. I’m not averse to publishing information about such a contact, because after all, all I’m doing is reporting what I’ve been told, so that is exactly what I did – in the context of reporting about a leak that did yield some high quality evidence.

    All of the above is all well and good, I am convinced the contact was initiated by someone at OM with the intention of embarrassing us here at RU. However, I think you will agree it has backfired on them spectacularly.

    If you really need any further proof about this being a silly game played by some silly people who think they are cleverer than everybody else, just take a look at the following post by Chris Iversen on the 28th over at OM:

    http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=dansmithsom&action=display&thread=7268&page=24

    “When do you think we should tell them that they have been “had” by their “source”? ;D 😉

    Seriously, how stupid do you have to be?!

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — March 31, 2010 @ 3:32 pm

  82. avatar

    Steve…all I have to say is – Wow.

    Iversen must be a pretty sick individual to try and get his jollies in such a way.

    Comment by RyanDube — March 31, 2010 @ 3:41 pm

  83. avatar

    Kim/Toon – I agree with you completely on this.

    “We know but a tiny fraction of the grand scheme of existence. Philosophers are wont to declare that logic applies to Ps and Qs and not to creation per se. If we’re truly ’searching for the answers, passionate about the truth’ we cannot preclude imagination from our discourse out of some sort of misplaced affinity for mundane, ‘logical’ sets of explication.”

    Absolutely – and the perfect balance I refer to is maintaining that sense of imagination and wonder while holding our brains inside of our heads with the tools of logic and reason. I think such a balance is going to upset the fringe on either side, there’s no getting around that.

    Comment by RyanDube — March 31, 2010 @ 3:50 pm

  84. avatar

    I was an Admin at OM when the Drones appeared. I actually resigned my position so I could freely debate the topic without a conflict of interest. If OM was behind the Drone saga, they kept it hid from me. My suspicions were always that the hoaxers were/are a part of the Drone Research Team itself and worked in conjunction with LMH.

    If you do indeed have a source from OM, it shouldn’t be hard for them to figure out who it may be.

    Comment by jeddyhi — March 31, 2010 @ 4:10 pm

  85. avatar

    I’ve never felt that OMF was the source of the Drone nonsense but only that it provided, as it always does in such cases, the fertile fields in which these sorts of noxious weeds thrive. That has always been the OM M.O. and probably its only purpose. The same is true for Linda. And how are you John?

    PS- I agree with Steve- Chris Iversen is a credulous ass.

    @Ryan- “the perfect balance I refer to is maintaining that sense of imagination and wonder while holding our brains inside of our heads with the tools of logic and reason.” Just as the Absurd bounds it, Imagination transcends- reason. Rules of enquiry can often times obscure a glimpse of Truth. Let your brain fall outside its little box on occasion.

    Comment by toon — March 31, 2010 @ 6:39 pm

  86. avatar

    Incidentally the following is a transcript of several planning sessions concerning an elaborate plot to plant a UFO hoax. It took place a year ago among some Amkon members led by the despicable ‘Cogburn.’ I do believe that these would-be fraudsters provide us a peek into the thought process behind such hoaxes as Source A, Serpo, and the Drones. It’s a chilling read. http://amkon.net/showpost.php?p=373158&postcount=1799

    Comment by toon — March 31, 2010 @ 6:54 pm

  87. avatar

    Wow, look at all the fun I have been missing by not coming back for a read!

    I particularly enjoy the “penis size comparisons” between OM and RU…brought to us by JakeReason. Here and I thought that sort of childishness was left on the playground many years ago.

    Caryn: I know who is holding your socks hostage. The conditions they are being held in are filthy, but they are being fed and watered (soft water, even). I’ve been authorized to tell you that if you ever want to see your socks alive again, you had better give you-know-who that you-know-what that you prize you-know-how-much. If you think he is kidding, ignore this warning and see the first sock stretched across the A1 Saturday morning!

    Who have I forgotten? Kim? I’m still holding back all the best insults, buddy. You know I love ya, and wouldn’t waste them on your more weak material. Just keep remembering: maximum effect. maximum effect.

    Anyone who has a problem with my debunking really doesn’t understand my sense of humor. It is extra dry, kinda like Martini & Rossi. Chalk it up to Aspergers, and then pass the hooka.

    Nitey nite to all my friends!
    Ray

    Comment by Ray — April 1, 2010 @ 3:37 am

  88. avatar

    Hey Ryan, posted your link yesterday HERE and had more than a quadruple increase on hits both today and yesterday on it. So today I checked out the “came from” in my stats from that post. You’ll get a laugh out of a few of them. One person probably told another and created a snowball. I pulled out just the govt oriented ones. Could be govt UFO enthusiasts of course but ya never know.

    Fort Washington, Maryland, United States Us Dept Of Justice 149.101.1.116
    Fredericksburg, Virginia, United States 98.175.165.184
    Riga, Latvia Ministry Of Foreign Affairs 195.244.159.136
    Ho Chi Minh City, Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam 125.212.191.137

    Comment by Atrueoriginall — April 1, 2010 @ 5:58 pm

  89. avatar

    well- all it took was the reappearance of one humorless wanker to spike this discussion. you can always count on Ray Hudson.

    Comment by toon — April 1, 2010 @ 6:00 pm

  90. avatar

    This just takes the cake

    http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=unitednations&thread=4806&page=355#245780

    Never fear…Source A is here.

    Not only did he meet with alien smart rocks that rule the universe…he has solved the problem of North and South Korea.

    What fools actually believe this crap?

    Really i can’t imagine how the Pickerings are not laughed out of there.

    It reminds me of when SUPPOSEDLY Source A went to New Orleans after Katrina and was making citizens arrests at the Super Dome…he was a rapist catcher and put the cuffs on these rapists himself.

    Let history show not a single suspect was ever charged with rape at the Super Dome during or after Katrina.

    I called the Pickerings out on this…gee18 mos ago?

    They said I didn’t know what I was talking about. I wasn’t there, but Source “A” the Alien and Korean conflict super ambassador was?

    Cut me a bleeping break.

    Either the Pickering’s are the stupidest researchers ever, or they are complicit in the hoax

    Comment by murnut — April 4, 2010 @ 1:08 am

  91. avatar

    @Mur, they are complicit in the hoax if they fail to hold their “source” accountable for the numerous inconsistencies in the story and the complete lack of any independently verifiable evidence that you and others have pointed out and they continue to promote it regardless. Doesn’t matter if they are stupidest researchers ever… what matters is whether or not they take you for the stupidest audience ever. Evidently they do…

    Comment by Access Denied — April 4, 2010 @ 10:17 pm

  92. avatar

    Well [Mur] I certainly don’t believe one ounce of that whole Source A “Junk”. From the very beginning I never saw anything to it.

    If The Pickering’s “were” innocent in the beginning, in my eyes that has long past. They are now and have been a part of the problem for a long time. If someone supplies you with the “Junk” and you become a “Pusher” for them, you and the supplier stand in the very same room.

    Comment by ScaRZ — April 4, 2010 @ 10:36 pm

  93. avatar

    Kıt Gleen

    Heheheh

    Comment by Yex — April 5, 2010 @ 3:05 pm

  94. avatar

    or should that be Lıchard Kennett

    Sorry

    Comment by Yex — April 5, 2010 @ 3:08 pm

  95. avatar

    I finally know why they refer to him as “Source A”. A=Attention Whore!

    The more attention you give these Source Aholes, the more they will churn out wild stories.

    And Toon, what makes you think you know even the first thing about “humor?” Apparantly, you are the one who has been eating too many Krispy Kremes!

    Comment by Ray — April 5, 2010 @ 3:51 pm

  96. avatar

    at least I can spell.

    Comment by toon — April 8, 2010 @ 4:53 am

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