June 30, 2010

The Open Minds forum and the FBI


Christopher Iversen, co-owner and administrator of the Open Minds forum posted a bizarre message in the Source A section of his site yesterday. His posting claimed he had been in touch with the Pickering brothers, – the people who brought us the Source A story – and they told him that
Richard Theilmann has been picked up by the FBI and brought in for questioning.”

The post went on to state:
“The Pickerings have indicated that they do not have any further comments at this time other then to say that “The Pickering brothers, Bob Morningstar and Bob Vanderclock maintain complete confidence in Source A’s credibility.”

It is not known if there are any charges pending against him.

We will keep you up to date and informed as the story progresses.

Posting by Christopher Iversen at Open Minds

The statemenet by the Pickerings made no sense on a number of levels, one of which being how could they possibly know he had been picked up and taken for questioning? With that question being asked by some of the OM membership and indeed in our own forums here, an answer was quickly forthcoming.

Iversen replied:
“He was allowed to make a few phone calls before they left his house and one of them was to Clay and Shawn. The brothers then immediately called me and I had the post up within the hour of the FBI appearing at his door.

How accomodating by the FBI! Theilmann gets to call his bartender buddies before they take him away for questioning and the first thing they do is contact one of the owners of the Open Minds forum!

What do you mean something doesn’t smell right?!

Well, if like us, you thought the whole scenario to be a preposterous and mind-numbingly obvious “play” by the Pickerings, you’d be right.

Andy Murray contacted the FBI Special Agent dealing with the Theilmann case and informed him of these latest developments. Imagine our non-surprise when the agent informed Andy that he hadn’t brought Theilmann in for questioning and that he hadn’t even spoken to him yet! The agent has tried to contact Theilmann and even left his card for Theilmann to get in touch with him, but he is still waiting for him to do so.

What we are left with, yet again it must be said, is another tall tale served up by the Pickerings and swallowed enthusiastically by those that run the Open Minds forum.

Sadly, it appears increasingly likely that the ownership of OM and people like the Pickerings, Vandeclock, Morningstar and Salla really do feel they can fool all of the people all of the time.

Further updates will include information about Theilmann’s medical condition that would prevent him for ever serving even if he wanted to, and extensive statements by some of his family members, with evidence, that prove further the sham that lies at the core of the Source A story.

In the meantime, Andy Murray now has his own section at Reality Uncovered. Murnut’s Sauce is the place to go to hear Andy’s musings on this whole sordid affair. Join Andy and the rest of the team to hear the story as it really is.



Filed under: Exopolitics,UFOlogy — Tags: , , , — Stephen Broadbent @ 1:59 pm




63 Comments

  1. avatar

    Sheeeeesh. Why am I not surprised by this? Can we get an ounce of truth from them one day?

    Comment by jeddyhi — June 30, 2010 @ 2:16 pm

  2. avatar

    Good update! The agents exact words were “total fabrication”

    Comment by Andy Murray — June 30, 2010 @ 2:22 pm

  3. avatar

    The larger question is why has anyone purportedly researching an internet prank become an FBI informer?

    Comment by lkwalker — June 30, 2010 @ 2:34 pm

  4. avatar

    Boo-hoo Kim

    Comment by Andy Murray — June 30, 2010 @ 3:09 pm

  5. avatar

    No, the larger question is why your obsession with someone who is only guilty of wanting to stop the further promulgation of a hoax.

    As for an internet prank, that is your definition and one that is clearly not based in reality. Did you miss the parts about the base access, attending meetings wearing full dress uniform and inserting himself into the activities of a civilian naval organisation?

    I guess you just chose to ignore that which doesn’t fit your argument du jour.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — June 30, 2010 @ 3:15 pm

  6. avatar

    It is the circle game, this will be spun as well.

    I read somewhere that the contact information for the FBI was given to nylily at OM, I wonder if she has made contact as there has been nothing further presented to verify anything.

    I now see a post that there could be two agents investigating based on the report/complaint made by the Naval Order.

    Kind of funny comment in my opinion, I assume that is saying the FBI don’t have their act together, where you will find several agents reviewing the same thing without realising that another is already on it.

    Could they be that inept? I doubt it.

    Comment by Pam — June 30, 2010 @ 3:45 pm

  7. avatar

    Richard has the agents card by the way….so Richard, Clay and Shawn already know the agents name and phone number……why is Richard not calling him back?

    So, if anyone wants to know the agents name…either call the FBI yourself….or ask Richard, Clay and Shawn…..clearly although they have not been posting…they are in touch with their enablers

    Comment by Andy Murray — June 30, 2010 @ 3:45 pm

  8. avatar

    So just for clarification……Contrary to reports from the Pickerings relayed through Ivo at OMF, the agent investigating Theilmann whom Andy has been in contact with says that Theilmann was never picked up and brought in for questioning. That the agent has stopped by Theilmann’s home and left his card and wants to talk to him, but that has not happened yet and the report on OM is a total fabrication.

    Wow. You just cannot make this type of stuff up lol.

    Comment by jeddyhi — June 30, 2010 @ 3:46 pm

  9. avatar

    Ivo at OM:

    “We do not have any new information at this time but we are open to and exploring all possible explanations.

    So far we have not been able to verify who picked him up, why they picked him up or where he was taken. But steps are being taken to try and verify this information.

    As soon as we know more details – you all will be the first to know! ”

    Well, you sure were in a hurry to say the FBI picked him up in your original ‘Breaking News’ post.
    Now you are back tracking and saying you don’t know who picked him up?!?

    As Temporal used to say…..Much can be inferred from this

    Comment by jeddyhi — June 30, 2010 @ 4:29 pm

  10. avatar

    He said, she said.
    No she didn’t, they said that.
    Who said?
    The one that he said, they said.
    No, she said that they said.
    He or she, someone must have said it.
    Yes, she did.
    No, he did
    No, they did

    oh, ok

    Comment by Jake Reason — June 30, 2010 @ 4:46 pm

  11. avatar

    Ry when will go you guys learn?? doubting what I said, fearing reactions of Keanu Reeves and friends, stead asking me, Yse what is going on??? for real??? what do you know for real??? but nope..as I see, again they have trapped your attention, sending you guys again on a wild goose chase.

    Comment by Augustine — June 30, 2010 @ 4:51 pm

  12. avatar

    Jake should be forced to drop Reason from his last name….and in its’ place should be “Clueless”

    You are going down the tubes Jake….contact a mental health profession right away.

    Seriously

    Comment by Andy Murray — June 30, 2010 @ 4:59 pm

  13. avatar

    They will most likely spin that Theilmann has been taken by the MiB/Ptb instead of the FBI. Jake “The Snake” (Un)Reason will say something like that for sure, since it’s unlikely that he finally will shut up with his IC fantasies. 😉

    Comment by Robert Gustavson — June 30, 2010 @ 5:13 pm

  14. avatar

    Kim’s response is very disturbing. Anyone can contact the NY office of FBI and verify exactly what Andy verified. Yet instead of observing that someone published another lie in order to cover up previous lies, he turns his sword toward those who revealed the truth. This reveals his true nature and which side he is really on – the side of lies.

    JakeReason is just a sick individual – his comments of a grammar school level intelligence don’t even warrant consideration. A fool will see no reason when his only goal is to spread the mythology in his head, rather than accept reality.

    So, now we know the RT/Pickerings are trying to fabricate a new thread within their fictional “play,” and that OM is more than happy to assist with the creation and distribution of a hoax. Fascinating stuff. Not surprising, but never thought it would play out so clearly in black and white like this.

    Comment by RyanDube — June 30, 2010 @ 5:47 pm

  15. avatar

    Sticks & Stones, boys…. can never make presumptions, fact.

    “black & white” is monocular vision

    Comment by Jake Reason — June 30, 2010 @ 6:17 pm

  16. avatar

    Speaking of facts Jake….got any?

    Comment by Andy Murray — June 30, 2010 @ 6:24 pm

  17. avatar

    “Sticks & Stones, boys…. can never make presumptions, fact.

    “black & white” is monocular vision

    Comment by Jake Reason — June 30, 2010 @ 6:17 pm”
    ————————————————————————-
    Jake, why do you try and post using weird metaphorical phrases like Dan Smith? Dan has screwed you up. You use to be yourself, now you’re just a disciple of Father Dan…of all the people you could have chosen to emulate, you chose Dan Smith? Wow.

    Be a Shepard….not a sheep.

    Comment by jeddyhi — June 30, 2010 @ 6:35 pm

  18. avatar

    Yes Mur,

    The only reality that makes any sense, is the one that incorporates all realities.

    >>

    Yse, glad to see you’re still kickin

    Comment by Jake Reason — June 30, 2010 @ 6:38 pm

  19. avatar

    Does that include the reality that the great Jake Reason was duped by two other willing dupes?

    Truth does not come from lies, and/or a foundation of lies

    Wake up Jake Bennewitz

    Comment by Andy Murray — June 30, 2010 @ 7:29 pm

  20. avatar

    Ysensa??? Lord jeeziz spare us.

    Comment by lkwalker — June 30, 2010 @ 8:16 pm

  21. avatar

    And yes- I do believe that proactively involving the IC, be it CIA, ONI, NSA or FBI, in any investigation of any internet prank is a major error in judgment and has the potential to involve every commentator on these matters- in all of three of the forums- with US intelligence in ways that we may not want. You think that the FBI doesn’t talk to the CIA? You think that your friendly new handler hasn’t been in touch with every other agency that may have an interest in these subjects? You think this particular FBI agent was accidentally picked for this investigation? The involvement of the IC in this matter came about in a fit of pique by a guy who lacked the common sense to remain detached from the plot and so made himself a central figure. Real reporters and investigators never make such a serious error. Amateurs bearing an ax to grind always do. All I can say is that all of us are now involved in this soap opera in ways that were never intended nor required. You may take away from this comment that I do not trust the IC. You would be correct.

    Comment by lkwalker — June 30, 2010 @ 8:40 pm

  22. avatar

    What a spiral of delusion. The fun part is it is all documented….this will be a great addition to the ‘Hall of Hoaxes’

    Comment by porkstick2 — June 30, 2010 @ 8:48 pm

  23. avatar

    Kim, you are beginning to sound like Jake Reason. Just because you keep repeating yourself doesn’t make it a fact. This was not an Internet prank, period. The FBI are involved in investigating what is a federal crime. Who else do you think should investigate this, the boy scouts?

    That you do not trust the “IC” is your perogative. I personally have nothing to hide so fail to see what your problem is.

    If you don’t like “being involved in ways that were never intended” the answer is easy.

    Go away.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — June 30, 2010 @ 8:50 pm

  24. avatar

    LOL at the comment above by Stephen B! Very well put……

    Even if there was an interest with the FBI about the people on the various Forums posting on the Source A story, I can assure you that their interest would be nothing more than “how do people fall for these things”?

    Where is the threat with a bunch of people that have an interest in UFOlogy??? Later I’ll go home make dinner and pay my bills, I am not out there searching back alleys for aliens and UFO’s, no need to worry about me.

    We are little peanuts in the big scheme of things, most look at us as the wearers of “tinfoil hats”, there is NO threat BE, whatcha worried about. LOL LOL LOL

    Comment by Pam — June 30, 2010 @ 10:04 pm

  25. avatar

    The one name that hasn’t been coming up is Dan’s “Ron”. With all the news over several years about the Pickerings and “Source A”, why didn’t the Dan & Ron Show reveal this hoax? Seems to me that a very high level CIA agent/analyst/Deputy Director should have been able to find out that this wannabe Navy dude was a phony. Can we depend on these guys to tell us when the world is going to end, but they can’t even find out if a fellow is really in the Navy or if a high level UFO meeting really took place or not? Makes me wonder whether or not Dan really has a source in our government or whether his “Ron” is really a high level government employee. Gary should know the answer to this. Doesn’t he always?

    Comment by WrongStuff Perhaps? — June 30, 2010 @ 10:31 pm

  26. avatar

    Youd think an “innocent” man would have called them back to clear his name pronto.
    They have even left a card asking him to call them, wonder why he hasnt.
    Someone with nothing to hide would call back…..makes you wonder why hes hiding ?

    Comment by Mike — June 30, 2010 @ 10:32 pm

  27. avatar

    I think the only good thing about this entire mess is that Morningstar, Pickerings, Vanderclock and Salla are all riding this thing to the ground…. And as point after point is verified, it will simply reinforce the original contention that these guys are either very stupid and very gullible or they are con men and know full well what they are doing. I opt for the latter point because it is clear from the way the OM forum article is couched that it is about hyping the situation. “OMG, the FBI have hauled away Source A for exposing the truth” when its really about something much less exotic and far more revealing… I think they didn’t believe Andy would make the call….True to form, they posted without calling the FBI themselves…Just can’t seem to get the hang of vetting info before screaming it to the world.
    I used to appreciate the Ufology Hall of Fame/Hall of Fame website but they stopped updating it long ago. We need something more current that really reveals the cowpies for what they are and give people the chance to find out before they spend thousands on Salla’s nonsense…. But he is in the Hall of Shame, with a rather interesting review….

    Comment by Ted Roe — July 1, 2010 @ 3:01 am

  28. avatar

    thats the UFOlogy Hall of Fame/Hall of Shame

    Comment by Ted Roe — July 1, 2010 @ 3:02 am

  29. avatar

    @wrongstuffperhaps,
    Caryn A and I met Dan S in North Beach/San Francisco one night, several years ago… I think way too much credibility is given to him.. he is barely competent by my reckoning. I could go into details but I got off the train when he asserted that he “was the Second Coming”…. he is not a well man and the fact this deliberate hoax seems to have “got by him” is giving him more credit and credibility than he deserves…

    Comment by Ted Roe — July 1, 2010 @ 3:09 am

  30. avatar

    Ted hit the nail on its head. Lots of babble, but not much fact. Caryn is quality from what I’ve seen. Dan, on the other hand, would be in lockdown if he didn’t inherit a bunch of money. Now his chatter centers on his delusions, the phony Kashmir Princess and the crack pot RP who he quotes as both a liar and a God. Weirdos like this barely make for light night laughter anymore. As for Andy, Ryan and group, praise the Lord that these individuals are active.

    Comment by WrongStuff Perhaps? — July 1, 2010 @ 3:35 am

  31. avatar

    The next update to this sordid saga should be the final one. The family testimony alone will be the final nail in the coffin of this story. Anyone who tries to continue with the Source A tale after hearing what Theilmann’s family have to say, really must be sick in the head.

    This is then when we see what the owners and the staff of the Open Minds forum are really all about.
    I personally believe the only reason they have supported this story for as long as they have, is because of one particular person behind the scenes. He brainwashed them at the time of the Serpo story and they have believed everything he has said ever since. They are convinced he is the real deal and his word is their gospel.

    So, owners and staff of Open Minds. If he is who you think he is, how could he have got this one so badly wrong?

    Someone with real credentials would never have made such an elementary error.

    If Richard Theilmann is a hoax, so is he. It’s as simple as that.

    If you step back a little once all of the dust has settled and actually examine the facts. You will see it for yourselves.

    That is, if you are not actually part of the “problem”.

    I don’t think all of you are, but I also don’t think you are all as stupid as you sometimes appear, either.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 1, 2010 @ 3:17 pm

  32. avatar

    I’m afraid you may be right Steve. We saw the pattern with Serpo, and it continues today. I honestly didn’t want to believe someone could be that deceitful and cunning – but I guess this is the world in which we live. There is a reason certain people seek out “sick” individuals throughout Ufology. I admit, I thought the reason was to *help* them, not exploit them. Now, I am starting to realize the true motive, and I can’t even begin to describe how much this particular truth sickens and saddens me.

    Comment by RyanDube — July 1, 2010 @ 3:39 pm

  33. avatar

    Steve, Ryan…you guys are so right and it is just sickening to see the way people are exploited and lied to….which is disconcerting to me….especially when this field is supposed to be about the disclosure of truth.

    One soon finds out, there is almost no truth in exopolitics, and ufology would do well to separate themselves from these charlatans that are more interested in the bottom line dollars than top line truth

    Comment by Andy Murray — July 1, 2010 @ 4:09 pm

  34. avatar

    I’m still waiting for Jake Reason / Rick Davis / Ricky Palmer Davis / Richard W Davis to respond to my comment on the other article. He said he would.

    I guess the Kit has got his tongue.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 1, 2010 @ 8:34 pm

  35. avatar

    Jake is the biggest liar over at OMF. Is agent99 his wife? If not they should consider a marriage.

    Comment by Robert — July 1, 2010 @ 8:42 pm

  36. avatar

    “Why didn’t the Dan & Ron Show reveal this hoax?”

    Let’s make one thing perfectly clear (and I suggest a thorough review of the Russian spy network complaints as background, see http://starpod.org/news/1006291.htm for the links — it’s about mid-page under ‘Justice Press Release’)…

    Dan Smith does not (has not?) looked upon the ‘Source A’ affair as anything more than a ‘bait and switch’ operation — his way of dealing with the competition for attention at OMF.

    In other words, Dan Smith’s view is the ‘Source A’ Affair was intended to be virtual flypaper — a concept already well established for intelligence operations on the Internet.

    Now whether or not it was an IC op, it certainly attracted the flies 😉

    Dan does, of course, see his continuing role to the IC as source and sink — so the answer about Ron is simple (at least in Dan’s mind): True or false, hoax or op, makes no difference, so long as the flies show up.

    Ted, I suggest you review the sequence of events where I published details of the ODNI JASON gravity wave study — attributed to Ron Pandolfi, with input from Mark Pesses and Paul Murad — a year prior to release of the official government publication, based upon information forwarded on background from Dan Smith.

    One last question: A real IC op would plant/establish a “legend” which might include family members. The Russian operation goes back to the 1990s. Have you been able to properly vet Theilmann’s ‘family’?

    What I find most fascinating about the Russian operation is the goal: elicitation of information, by befriending and eliciting sources close to policy makers (Laura Eisenhower’s mother Susan comes to mind, as an example).

    Btw, once upon a time, Caryn forwarded a claim that Reality Uncovered was a CIA op. :-)

    Of course, we all know Caryn is really not MI6; that’s just her “legend.” :-)

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — July 1, 2010 @ 9:27 pm

  37. avatar

    Ted really doesn’t need to read your review, Gary. He probably knows more than you! And Ted was being very diplomatic about that meeting with Dan – I recall it very well and recall my embarrassment at Ted having to be witness to that incident.

    Nope, I did not claim that RU was a ‘CIA op’ that is what someone else was claiming at the time – a man by the name of Bill Ryan who phoned me several times to tell me….

    The team were taking bets on who would be the first to drag the Russian spy ring into this. I thought it would probably be you, Gary! We’re just waiting for the Pickerings to now tell OMers that Theilmann has been away for a few days on one of his secret missions – the FBI arrest was the cover story for this mission which involved him catching some spies with the help of his sentient rocks!!

    Comment by Caryn — July 1, 2010 @ 9:54 pm

  38. avatar

    Some of you may be interested to know that I have had 2 independent professional psychologists review the SourceA/Theilmann threads on the OM forum. Their conclusions are even more disturbing than I had expected!

    Comment by Caryn — July 1, 2010 @ 10:01 pm

  39. avatar

    Blimey Caryn, you didn`t get them to read the entire thing did you? They`ll need therapy themselves after that!

    Comment by Yex — July 1, 2010 @ 10:34 pm

  40. avatar

    Bless you Caryn for your wit and wisdom!

    (Would we expect anything less from Her MAJESTIC Secret Service!)

    But I am not connecting ‘Source A’ to the Russians! I am only asking about the remaining threads which remain dangling and untied.

    I am wondering if anyone here was already aware that the Russian Spy Operation is allegedly managed from the United Nations?

    The U.N.: Russia’s den of spies

    http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/06/29/the_un_russias_den_of_spies

    At the center of the Russian spy ring rounded up this week by federal agents were two Russian handlers from Moscow’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR), the successor to the KGB, who managed a network of sleeper agents out of their Upper East Side Manhattan offices at the Russian mission to the United Nations.

    The Russian mission to the United Nations has been at the center of Moscow’s sprawling intelligence-gathering operations in the United States for decades, providing Soviet and Russian operatives with ideal circumstances to infiltrate U.S. diplomatic missions, businesses, and circles of political elites.

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — July 1, 2010 @ 11:20 pm

  41. avatar

    Btw Caryn I was aware the CIA claim was from Bill Ryan. I also recall dirt dug up on Stephen and Ryan by a private investigator?

    Is that correct?

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — July 1, 2010 @ 11:34 pm

  42. avatar

    Eh?
    You “recall” dirt dug up but then have to ask if that’s correct?

    I recall someone telling me you were gay. Is that correct?

    See what I did there? I did a Bekkum.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 1, 2010 @ 11:46 pm

  43. avatar

    (38. Some of you may be interested to know that I have had 2 independent professional psychologists review the SourceA/Theilmann threads on the OM forum. Their conclusions are even more disturbing than I had expected)

    LOL, they will need to see psychologists themselves after going through all of that!

    Comment by Pam — July 2, 2010 @ 12:46 am

  44. avatar

    Their (the psychologists mentioned by Caryn) assessment couldn’t possibly be more damning than mine. And I’ll add that a “psycholinguistic” and “neurolinguistic” comb points to more than just madness, but complicity and outright lying, as per intuition. Some playing along the prompt are being driven over by it; a mean wink amidst the ploy.
    A hearty pirate laugh from this seat.

    Comment by Puppetburglar — July 2, 2010 @ 2:54 am

  45. avatar

    Hi Stephen! The alleged private eye investigation ‘dirt’ was passed to me by Caryn, back in 2006, and I believe it might have been sourced from Bill Ryan? but I really have no idea (it was one of those ambiguous messages where I was cc into the middle of a long thread without additional background and exposition).

    Maybe the thread was one of those infamous fishing threads to see where the dirt moved about, out into the open or under the bed! :-)

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — July 2, 2010 @ 1:12 pm

  46. avatar

    By the way, a few credits for Dan:

    First mention of the killed NIE about NO WMDs in Iraq (video interview shot by Jack Sarfatti)
    First mention of Ron’s involvement with MASINT (same video)
    First mention of Ron’s investigation of China and HFGW research (email, blog)
    Etc. (list goes on and on)

    Obviously for Ron — with friends like Dan — the Russians and the Chinese etc. have no need to set up secret networks to elicit information about US policy makers — they can read Dan’s blog from Moscow and Beijing! :-)

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — July 2, 2010 @ 1:19 pm

  47. avatar

    Compare Dan’s video statement about NO WMDs in Iraq with this:

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/blumenthal/2007/09/06/bush_wmd

    HURSDAY, SEP 6, 2007 07:16 ET
    Bush knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction
    Salon exclusive: Two former CIA officers say the president squelched top-secret intelligence, and a briefing by George Tenet, months before invading Iraq.
    BY SIDNEY BLUMENTHAL

    On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam’s inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again.

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — July 2, 2010 @ 1:28 pm

  48. avatar

    I do think Bekkum’s day has passed. Lots of nonsense all strung together in an attempt to make some sense out of nothing. Chatters about “Ron”, but all he appears to know is what “Ron” tells him or a few very old news bits or emails. If there ever was a hoax running in the UFO community, it was the result of “Ron” using Dan to further a perverse penchant for sensationalism that is unfullfilled by reality. What a sad state it is. But if you want the truth, buy Bekkum’s silly book. Haha.

    Comment by WrongStuff Perhaps? — July 2, 2010 @ 3:25 pm

  49. avatar

    Caryn, could you ask your psychologists to do an evaluation of Bekkum’s posts in this comment thread? I’d be curious what they would think. :)

    Comment by RyanDube — July 2, 2010 @ 4:48 pm

  50. avatar

    Gary – unlike the anonymous ID’s or criminal frauds used as intelligence “operatives” by the private Scammer’s Inc group to promote stories like Serpo and Source A – the information coming from the family members come from real people with real addresses, real lives, real jobs (yes, all verifiable and as honest as day). There’s no cloak-and-dagger nonsense coming from them, they are in fact hurt and victimized by the activities of people like Theilmann, Salla, Morningstar, the Pickerings and OM.

    I will not allow this poor family to be victimized further by the sick little insinuations from members of OM or from you. These are real people who are suffering through a family crisis caused by a situation involving a potentially mentally ill family member, and your comments in this thread are very hurtful to that family. It would do your reputation well if you would recant those insinuations and apologize to the Theilmann family.

    Thanks,
    -Ryan

    Comment by RyanDube — July 2, 2010 @ 4:55 pm

  51. avatar

    Ah excuse us Ryan? The reality uncovered is;
    You & Team ARE the infamous invaders of the privacy of others lives regardless of any ancillary damages it might cause them. Stalking people with intent to slander them & their family publicly, has been your MO since the get-go.

    And now your pal Steve (as inferred above), has highly esteemed Dr. Kit slotted as your next slash & burn case.

    You are hardly in any position to judge the morality of others.

    Comment by Jake Reason — July 2, 2010 @ 6:50 pm

  52. avatar

    Gary the ‘dirt’ was being dished by Doty and Martinez during the great SHERLPO scrap of 2006. Martinez emailed several people a report written by a PI allegedly engaged by Doty. The report contained personal information on 3 members of RU, such as home addresses, family details, work details ect and Shawnna’s & Ryan’s SSN. The email was sent to a number of recipients – including several MODs on the OMF – Funny though, I don’t recall them accusing Martinez and Doty of a criminal act re: the obtaining of Shawnna’s & Ryan’s SNN and distributing it via a stream of emails! I still have the emails tucked away btw!

    Also, Gary…you are colliding two disparate worlds together in an attempt to make sense of one that is firmly rooted in confabulation….take the weekend off – turn the computer off – and spend some real time out in the sun with your family my friend :-)

    Comment by Caryn — July 2, 2010 @ 7:08 pm

  53. avatar

    I haven’t seen Ryan or “his pals” exhibit the behavior that Jake describes. I’ve found them to be diggers for the facts, make some statements from time to time that may be a bit preliminary, but always formulate conclusions based only on facts. I’ve also observed Ryan to be very committed to family, highly moral and always trying his best to tell the truth. Jake Reason and Bekkum haven’t lived up to these goals in the slightest, from what I have seen. Instead, usually they let Dan babble his nonsense and then, as trained seals, they slap their flippers together and bark their own version of that nonsense.

    Keep up the fantastic, accurate and honest work Ryan and “pals”.

    Comment by WrongStuff Perhaps — July 2, 2010 @ 7:11 pm

  54. avatar

    Careful Jake! Who has accused RU of stalking them? – please provide the details of the complaint.

    Comment by Caryn — July 2, 2010 @ 7:14 pm

  55. avatar

    Thank you WrongStuff – Jake sometimes struggles to see the real world as sane people like you and I would view it. In his world view, the folks who publish documented evidence and truth are the enemy, while hoaxers, liars and con-men are pro-disclosure heroes. It may be a warped world-view, but then it’s also the view of someone working primarily within the confines of a UFO-cult community.

    So, however frustrating this can be, you can’t argue or reason with such a delusional mind. You can only smile and nod, and then continue on with the important work, based in reality, of publishing the truth. The JakeReasons of the world, and their empty and baseless comments, will fade into obscurity – as the truth lives on.

    I appreciate your kind words about the team and I though, they really made me smile!

    Comment by RyanDube — July 2, 2010 @ 7:23 pm

  56. avatar

    Whenever I see something written by Jake Reason / Rick Davis / Ricky Palmer Davis / Richard W Davis I don’t smile and nod… I tend to shake my head and wonder how many people actually get taken in by his incoherent ramblings.

    The one good thing to come out of this is the fact that more and more people are now seeing for themselves exactly what the Open Minds forum is all about. I used to get so frustrated that such obvious manipulation and lies seemed to go unnoticed by others.

    It’s a different story now, however. When I see exactly how many people have seen through the lies and manipulation over there, that’s when I smile and nod.

    There’s hope for sanity yet :)

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 2, 2010 @ 9:57 pm

  57. avatar

    Caryn et al: I am not making any claims re: Source A/Theilmann etc.

    I am pointing out possible methods that might be used/developed in such situations for eliciting intelligence (and have tested some of these methods in past years).

    ‘WrongStuff Perhaps?’ (whatever happened to the honest use of real names?) seems to have under-determined the political significance of Dan’s knowledge of the rejected CIA Iraq NIE years before the mainstream media reported the story. Had I reported Dan’s statement AND been able to confirm with two sources earlier I would have beaten Blumenthal — but at best Dan was interpreting what Ron had told him.

    I recall Dan recounting how he had been with President George H.W. Bush’s sister Nancy Bush Ellis discussing politics the day Iraq invaded Kuwait. Dan does from time to time pickup on what is known as “on background” information that can be used to further an investigative story.

    Comment by Gary ****** — July 2, 2010 @ 11:51 pm

  58. avatar

    Steve wrote: “So Jake Reason / Rick Davis / Ricky Palmer Davis / Richard W Davis, you finished that response you promised yet?”

    Yes, I’ve detailed it at length on the forum. Simply read my posts.

    Part one
    http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=unitednations&action=display&thread=7855

    Part Two
    http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=unitednations&action=display&thread=8275

    Key word: SECURITY
    You’ll note that I announced that Source A was being outed, a month before you were even involved in this ordeal.

    Good guess? or simple Deduction? I recognized it even before the Pickerings did.

    Follow my posts, I’ll always be a step ahead of you. Watch, and you’ll learn something.

    Is this arrogance? Or is this insight?

    Stay tuned

    Comment by Jake Reason — July 3, 2010 @ 1:23 am

  59. avatar

    Btw this is what I have been saying for some time: counterintelligence trumps justice in spy investigations (or ‘exempt from legal recourse’):

    FBI spent nearly decade pursuing spy suspects in bid to gain counterintelligence

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/02/AR2010070205569.html?hpid=topnews

    The Russian spy case that exploded into public view this week was preceded by nearly a decade of cat-and-mouse activities with the FBI, according to court documents and an interview with a senior U.S. official familiar with the case.

    Indeed, the investigation into the 11 alleged foreign agents appears to have been a case study in counterintelligence. As a matter of technique, the FBI and the CIA generally weigh the opportunity of gaining valuable counterintelligence against the danger of allowing subjects of interest to continue operating, lest they obtain U.S. intelligence or manage to flee.

    [Note the use of anonymous ‘senior U.S. official’ by the mainstream media!]

    Comment by Gary ****** — July 3, 2010 @ 3:10 am

  60. avatar

    It is actually possible for a broken clock to be correct twice a day. Dan usually spends his time elaborating on wild interpretations of his pet philosophies.

    These with the intended result to identify him as the coming “Messiah”.

    No problem with that, as his convert count is stuck on 0

    Comment by Etherian — July 3, 2010 @ 5:11 am

  61. avatar

    @Jake Reason / Rick Davis / Ricky Palmer Davis / Richard W Davis

    Nope, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about who you really are.
    What’s with Ricky Palmer Davis and how does that correspond with Richard W Davis?
    These are both names you have used on the Open Minds forum. Why?

    Thankfully, you have left enough clues in your many posts to make it easy for any researcher to determine you are completely full of it when it comes to your relating of past exploits and endeavors.

    So, what’s it to be? Are you going to tell the truth about who you really are?

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 3, 2010 @ 7:13 pm

  62. avatar

    OMF’s three remaining contributors to either Dan’s or Bekkum’s blogs are hunkering down in the trenches and lamenting the hits they are taking on this blog and elsewhere. They can’t apparently understand why so may individuals are casting aspersions to their integrity. How can they miss reality? They lie, they present misinformation, they libel, they repeat nonsense pumped into their over-inflated egos from their “ron” and a couple of others, and then they sit back and wait for the dust to settle and see what mud has stuck on the wall. This isn’t reporting. This isn’t understanding. This isn’t trying to unravel a mystery. This is just foolish behavior from a few misguided individuals in need of serious help. Yet, they can’t understand why they aren’t respected. It is always a sad day when our children have closed minds to reality.

    Comment by WrongStuff Perhaps — July 4, 2010 @ 5:01 am

  63. avatar

    This article relates several psy-ops methods allegedly used by the Russians; consider the ‘Source A’ affair in the context of the reported spy games:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-07-09/russian-spy-games/

    Last year, a video of Kyle Hatcher, who worked in the U.S. embassy as the liaison to a Russian religious and human-rights group, popped up online. It seemed to have come from the FSB, though no one could definitively prove it. On the tape, Hatcher was seen making phone calls, apparently to Russian prostitutes, checking a hotel room for bugs and, it seemed, having sex with a hooker. The tape, however, was shoddily shot and spliced together, and the American ambassador complained that the whole thing was a smear.

    But perhaps the most troubling detail of the Hatcher campaign was that someone had collected these video materials before Hatcher even began to work for the American embassy. What this suggests, of course, is that someone in Russia is playing a longer game, gathering incriminating details on anyone of potential interest, hoarding these nuggets of weakness (be they related to money or drugs or sex) only to use them years later when the target has gained strategic importance.

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — July 12, 2010 @ 1:23 pm

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