July 3, 2010

Why Do People Join Cults?


Are you new to the field of Ufology? Have you been attracted by one fantastic story or another? Or maybe you’ve been experiencing some strange events or phenomenon in your life and you have questions. Before you dive too deeply into this strange, seedy world – I would like to issue all travelers a caution and some advice. The question we’re going to answer today is why do people join cults?

The Nature of Ufology Today

In our recent radio conversation with long-time Ufologist Don Ecker, Don asked me why we started this website. I figured this question may come up, because I get asked it often whenever I introduce someone to our site. We don’t quite fit into the “mold.” We are not a believer forum – we require all claims are backed by solid, verifiable evidence. However, we are not a skeptics forum, because we discuss many issues that knee-jerk skeptics avoid such as spirituality, cryptozoology and many other topics that the “mainstream” might automatically consider “weird.”

Here’ the thing – these topics aren’t actually “weird,” it’s just that so many people that are drawn to these topics are also mentally unstable. This makes it difficult for sane people, like you, to find some respectable and “normal” place to try to find the answers.

The answer that I gave Don surprised him, I think. I quoted him. The quote came from an essay he wrote in 2007, published by Kevin Randle, titled Don Ecker Quits Ufology. In the essay, the most powerful paragraphs expresses the frustration and exhaustion that many respectable researchers and writers throughout Ufology are feeling:

“I’m tired of the media that is blinded by their prejudice about UFOs, their snide and condescending remarks about something that quite frankly they know nothing about. I’m tired of people claiming to be researchers that refuse to accept the truth about something regardless of how many times it jumps up and bites them in the ass.

I’m tired of government agencies that continuously lie about a subject that has shown to be something real and even possibly affect our national security… and getting away with it for over 60 years. I’m tired of believers that become upset when their fuzzy illogic is shown to be as full of holes as Swiss Cheese. I’m tired of frauds and clowns in this field that are shown to be frauds and clowns and yet still are treated like they are stars with something important to say. I suppose you could just say I’m tired of all of it.”

Many of you reading this are probably nodding your heads in agreement. The hoaxes and con games from so many of those mentally unstable individuals lead to a phenomenon known as disinformation overload. Now, overwhelmingly the evidence shows that most of that disinformation comes from con artists who are simply using the field as a platform to gain notoriety or fame, even if on a small scale and within a fringe community.

Oddly, some of the hoaxes also seem to involved small private groups of people as well – people who tend to gravitate to and conduct scientific research on fringe topics. They try to remain under the radar in their efforts – but every now and then you can get a glimpse of one of them on the wings of many of these false stories.

The Creation of Cults

In his examination of the field of Ufology, Jacques Vallee often touches upon this strange phenomenon – that of small groups of individuals forming a cohesive group that shares a collective belief system regarding the phenomenon. Vallee thoroughly explored the question, why do people join cults… For the cohesive group, the belief system doesn’t need to be based in any physical reality or upon any real evidence – it just needs to somehow explain the phenomenon that they’ve all experienced.

Vallee said it best when he wrote in his 1989 book Dimensions:

“I think the stage is set for the appearance of new faiths, centered on the UFO belief. To a greater degree than all phenomena modern science is confronting, the UFO can inspire awe, the sense of the smallness of man, and an idea of the possiblity of contact with the cosmic. The religions we have briefly surveyed began with the miraculous experiences of one person, but to-day there are thousands for whom the belief in otherworldly contact is based on intimate conviction, drawn from what they regard as personal contact with UFOs and their occupants.” (page 192).

This collective belief system makes these groups feel normal, because they share those beliefs. These ideas may include that UFO sightings are caused by extra-terrestrials from other planets, that Intelligence communities across the world have an elaborate system of cover-up of alien visitations, or that aliens are channeling important messages for humanity through contactees or “mediums.”

Whenever a piece of evidence surfaces that runs counter to this group’s “belief-system,” the reaction from cult-members is rather astonishing. Normally kind and mature adults will resort to name-calling. Ordinarily law-abiding citizens will attempt to terrorize or slander anyone involved in revealing that truth.

In Messengers of Deception (a book I will be reviewing here at RU this month), Vallee describes this best:

“Human beings are under the control of a strange force that bends them in absurd ways, forcing them to play a role in a bizarre game of deception.” (p. 20)

Can You Find Answers Within Ufology?

So, why do people join cults? They do so for the very reason you, yourself are reading this blog entry. In fact, you are a perfect candidate for these cults. You have questions about a strange experience you’ve had that feels very real to you. You would like answers that you can’t get from mainstream sources that scorn you for your experiences, or treat you as though you’re crazy. You are certain that you aren’t having delusional visions or any other symptoms of mental illness – so where do you turn?

Well – you would typically end up where the “sick” people (who are actually having delusional visions) end up, on UFO forums that are essentially UFO cults.  You may find a welcoming community that acknowledges your experiences and make you feel as though they are “normal.”  You find a home. This is why people join cults – because they do not realize they’re joining a “cult.”

So what’s the test – how do you know if you’re joining up with a cult community? Well, the best approach I can think of to test a UFO community is to see if they adhere to the sort of “litmus test” that Vallee applied to UFO sightings called the “SVP” code. If the community follows this behavior upon any new report or claim turning up – then you’ve found a winner that you should join – one that is not a UFO cult.

  • Members study the reliability of the source of the story. An anonymous source isn’t given much credit. A person with a known criminal record is given even less. The community automatically filters out stories from such sources.
  • Researchers put “boots on the ground.” Researchers pick up the phone to call sources or visit witnesses and interview them to verify potentially valid claims.
  • Third, do members of the community first try to explain the story or claim with common sense? Do they initially explore natural phenomenon or conventional environmental factors that could explain the phenomena? This behavior isn’t skepticism, it is a healthy way to identify potentially valid paranormal phenomenon through the process of elimination.

All three of these factors were listed in Vallee’s model, rated from 0 to 4.  A “444” is the gold standard of a truly “impressive” event, or in the case of UFO’s – a sighting that simply can not be explained away.

So, why do people join cults? Because they are looking for answers. If the group that you are considering joining handles new stories or events in the manner described above – that’s the community that you want to join. That’s the community that will help you find the truth, and you don’t have to worry that you may be inadvertently stepping into a UFO cult community.



Filed under: UFOlogy,Ufology History — Tags: , , , — RyanDube @ 12:11 am




60 Comments

  1. avatar

    Great article Ryan.

    The recent bannings at Open Minds demonstrate the points of your article perfectly. They have even purged one of the founder administrators of the site, simply because he stopped toeing the party line!

    He was insulted by Jake Reason / Rick Davis / Ricky Palmer Davis / Richard W Davis, yet nothing happens to the sock-puppeted one. JeddyHi responds in a much more civilized fashion, and is kicked off the site!

    The Open Minds forum is truly a laughing stock in the UFOlogy field. The people that run it, along with those in the background deserve everything they have got coming to them.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 3, 2010 @ 12:32 am

  2. avatar

    Open Minds Forum (OMF), is a public discussion forum. With over 5,000 members discussing thousands of subjects. With 10’s of thousand of links to articles, interviews, documentaries, reports and Radio Shows world wide.

    To suggest OMF is a cult, is to suggest that everyone who follows a Radio Program or TV show, belongs to a cult. Libeling OMF a cult, is synonymous to libeling The Kevin Smith Show, Don Ecker’s Show, Coast to Coast AM, etc etc . . . as Cults.

    Get a grip on reality fellas. You aren’t uncovering a thing, but your own narrow minded ignorance.

    Comment by Jake Reason — July 3, 2010 @ 1:40 am

  3. avatar

    Jake, both yourself and the management of OM prove yourselves to be the epitome of “Narrow minded ignorance” by banning any member that has the nerve to question the party line. Some discussion forum where no discussion is allowed. Hypocrites.

    Comment by Yex — July 3, 2010 @ 2:01 am

  4. avatar

    @yex
    Ever heard a Radio Host hang-up on a call-in, who was going off on some tangent not related to the subject, or slandering the Guest?

    The same thing is required in Moderating a discussion forum.

    Larry King even does it all the time.

    Oh and btw, Larry King has frequent UFO related shows. Those who tune-in are “looking for answers” or just plain curious. They are not part of a Cult, contrary to Ryan & Steve’s broad-brush perspective suggested above.

    Comment by Jake Reason — July 3, 2010 @ 2:17 am

  5. avatar

    Larry King is hanging up his suspenders :)

    Comment by Pam — July 3, 2010 @ 2:22 am

  6. avatar

    Larry King meets the criteria of NOT being a cult using Vallee’s checkpoints:

    1. He will immediately question the reliability of a source for any story – in fact it’s probably the very first question he would ask. OM is content with anonymous sources.
    2. Larry King will most certainly contact sources or background witnesses (at least his research staff will) in order to get the background of a story before making a fool of himself by putting incorrect/untrue/invalid information on the air. It’s called due diligence. OM doesn’t know the meaning of the phrase.
    3. Larry King will use common sense when faced with an absurd claim or story. OM is the epitome of illogical thought patterns and uncommon sense.

    As you can see, even if Larry King frequents the topic of UFO’s he meets the criteria described above as a NON-cultlike figure. OM, on the other hand, perfectly meets the criteria of being a UFO cult.

    Thanks for your comments.
    -Ryan

    Comment by RyanDube — July 3, 2010 @ 2:23 am

  7. avatar

    Jake Unreason:

    5,000 members…that’s funny. :)

    The Kevin Smith Show – Meets the criteria as a non-cult. Everyone gets a voice, all angles are examined, the background is dug into and he has a respect for the evidence.

    Don Ecker – I know Don Ecker….and You, sir, are NO Don Ecker.

    Coast to Coast AM – All sides are allowed to speak, for or against a claim. The show doesn’t hang up on skeptics or people who have evidence that disproves a claim. Not a Cult.

    The Open Minds Forum is quite clearly a UFO cult of the worst kind.

    Cheers 😉

    -Ryan

    Comment by RyanDube — July 3, 2010 @ 2:31 am

  8. avatar

    OMF is just like any other insidious Cult.
    Scientology comes to mind……….

    Anyone not subscribing to the Sci Fi they try and pass off as facts is declared an SP (supressive person) and is subject to a process called “disconnect” The similaritys between $cientology and OMF are obvious.
    As in $cientology once you are “disconnected” or banned you may not mention that persons name again, or you too will be disconnected/banned.

    OMF is a Cult.

    Like L Ron Hubbard, their Source A likes to write crappy Science Fiction and pass it off as the truth, like him, he likes to wear a military uniform and medals he never earned, i could post page after page after page of parallels, but i would only belabouring the obvious.

    Its a Cult, the Cult leaders will welcome fresh meat, but if they question the culties…. bang they are disconnected, never to be spoken of again

    Comment by Mike — July 3, 2010 @ 3:39 am

  9. avatar

    OMF is a cult…you can tell by this post today by Jon Curico on Open Minds

    Quoting Jon:

    “You were imagining things. It’s best to stay in line and out of trouble. “

    Comment by Andy Murray — July 3, 2010 @ 4:41 am

  10. avatar

    Speaks Volumes ……… “Stay in line”

    OMF is a Cult, and just like $cientology likes to claim more members that it actually has…….

    Comment by Mike — July 3, 2010 @ 5:10 am

  11. avatar

    5000 members, the majority of which do not post for fear of saying the wrong thing and pissing off the staff.

    Comment by jeddyhi — July 3, 2010 @ 10:10 am

  12. avatar

    Excellent article! As a cult survivor, it rings true. There are definite cult tendencies in Ufology as well as in other anomalous research fields. This is why it is crucial to remain grounded and objective as researchers.

    –Doug Kelley, ParaNexus.org

    Comment by Doug Kelley — July 3, 2010 @ 3:35 pm

  13. avatar

    Posted just now by Jake at OM…

    “There is more than ScA, being taken down here.

    There is also, a once useful nemesis being exposed for their true colors. While they hoot & holler in mimic unison and one accord, they withdrawal themselves from the greater community, and segregate to the tiny corner of irrelevance. The has-been philosophical views of yester-age.

    When the dust of the ScA Saga fades away, the reality of their isolation and self imposed quarantine will mark them. The Ufology audience they so desired to draw attention from, with turn away, leaving them in desolate loneliness.”

    If that isn’t cultspeak I don’t know what is… yikes!

    Comment by Access Denied — July 3, 2010 @ 4:58 pm

  14. avatar

    I seem to recall being banned there in 2006 for making this very point. Back then I called it ‘an incipient cult’ and was banned by- as I recall- Ryguy. Yesterday he banned me again from his Skepticult. Go figure. ‘One man’s troll is another man’s prophet,’ as they say in the tubez biz.

    Comment by lkwalker — July 3, 2010 @ 5:02 pm

  15. avatar

    Beware of dour moralists regardless of their one book. A proper sword always has two edges. Apologies to Aquinas…

    Comment by lkwalker — July 3, 2010 @ 5:05 pm

  16. avatar

    Kim, a few things you’ve got wrong (once again).

    I am not the one that banned you this last time from RU. Nor do I recall what you’re referring to in your first example, but it doesn’t matter. When you find yourself getting banned from both a cult like OM and a non-cult like RU, it should be a clear sign that you’re simply being a troll regardless of where you’re holding a conversation. It would be healthy for you to examine your flaws that keep getting you banned from everywhere rather than trying to find someone that you can blame.

    Best of luck,
    -Ry

    Comment by RyanDube — July 3, 2010 @ 5:31 pm

  17. avatar

    I fully expect to be banned and damned by any cult- regardless of its nature. Two edges. Know what that means, St Dour?

    Comment by lkwalker — July 3, 2010 @ 7:58 pm

  18. avatar

    Lifted today from Amkon-

    “Re: RU straightens out members over FBI cointelpro Quote:
    Originally Posted by skunk
    Re-read the context of what rydouche wrote.

    Gunter must be a druggy, fraud, con artist, and criminal based on this post, correct?

    And everyone who dislikes the FBI must fit in one of the aforementioned categories, correct?

    Ryan has always held that opinion of me. He’s a sort of dour, self important moralist with no sense of humor and is getting deeper into that mode of thought day by day. Murnut is unfortunately the same way which is why he invited Ryan to join the ‘investigation.’ Their swords have only one edge.

    The Sauce outing has indeed now taken on the odor of vendetta and is the reason for inviting the febees in. I saw the same thing happen with with Murnut’s hatred of his arch enemy at OM- Dood. He threatened continually to turn him in to some police agency or other for matters completely unrelated to forum issues. I don’t remember the incident totally but it had to do with not reporting some income to the unemployment office or some such shit. For the Nut that was stolen valor, I suppose.

    There is also the matter of Murnut’s fawning over Dan Smith that coloured his view of involvement with the IC. If Dan has a ‘handler’ why shouldn’t he? And then there is the case of Cog. Murnut threatened to expose his use of acid to the authorities- again for no other reason than personal destruction. This kind of behaviour is indeed spiteful to the point of being pathological.

    And his new-found hatred of the Koidal Kingdom? Amkon (and me) gave this guy a platform for his personal battle against the evil OMville in the creation of the Borg Thread. No other forum did this for him. I started the thread especially for him, in honor of his Damascus realization, after 7500 posts there, to vent that the place was indeed the borgist cult I’d warned him about 2 years ago- a warning that for 2 years he had ignored while he happily participated in their memes and frauds and hoaxes. Never in a thousand years would I have figured him to be FBI informer material. And never did I expect that in his mind Amkon would turn out to be nothing more than 180% trolls and garbage. Oh well. Such is life.”

    By the way- after reading OM today I’ve concluded that this character ‘Doc’ is a bigger dick than even Chris Iversen.

    Comment by lkwalker — July 3, 2010 @ 8:22 pm

  19. avatar

    Kim, you were banned because you don’t play by the rules. It really is as simple as that. Trolling is not conducive to any kind of discussion and it is something you’ve been banned for countless times before.
    It’s a shame, but such is life.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 3, 2010 @ 11:22 pm

  20. avatar

    I did threaten to turn in a tax/unemployment fraud OM moderator…but it was a joke….and never did.
    He posted it…I called him on it

    You lie….I never threaten to report Dogburn for his use and manufacturing of LSD…all I said was I thought it was ironic that self proclaimed super Christians Steve Fore and Jake Bennewitz held up Dogburn as some type of hero. Generally hero’s don’t brag about making and using LSD

    Amazing how folks can switch their ethics on and off like a light switch.

    And Toon…you are banned because you are an a-hole….a funny a-hole, but an a-hole none the less.
    You have fleeting moments of clarity…but really too few to compensate for poor manners and lies. And so you are exiled back to trollkon…say hi to troll admin for me

    Comment by Andy Murray — July 3, 2010 @ 11:50 pm

  21. avatar

    perhaps they should change the name of the site to ” Very slightly ajar minds”

    Comment by laura leight hernandez — July 4, 2010 @ 9:50 am

  22. avatar

    I can’t help wondering why every almost every article posted here at RU includes a direct reference to OMF – Strange that Stephen and Ryan would be so desperate to associate themselves with what they term a “cult”. Even to the point that just a few years ago they gained illegal access to serpo.org just to read our emails…..

    It seems to me that RU is guilty of exactly the same type of “Group think” which they accuse OMF. Was cogburn not voted out of the hoax buster team for daring to challenge the consensus here?

    It’s almost as if critisizing OMF is the only thing that is keeping RU afloat… Sad really, but thanks for the free publicity! 😉

    Comment by Lee — July 4, 2010 @ 11:11 am

  23. avatar

    @Lee
    Then you certainly won’t have a problem to explain here why posts of members who believe that Source A is a fraud have been deleted recently because they’ve been labeled as “off-topic” while on the other hand you can still find off-topic posts just recently made by members of the pro-Source A and on the fence group which haven’t been deleted. Tell me why is that? Are the admins suddenly on vacation?

    Moderator actions shall not to be discussed on the open forum and should be taken to pms, maybe, that’s your stance, but then you should have at least the decency to reply those pms.

    I’ve got to ask about all that here instead of over at OMF, because I got to fear that such a post could be deleted immediately again.

    Instead of wondering why other people use to point out these flaws in your behavior you maybe should rather wonder about what causes all those rumors. Especially if so many people seem to experience things like that.

    Cheers
    Phil aka philliman

    Comment by philliman — July 4, 2010 @ 11:55 am

  24. avatar

    Lee – and of course the members on OM never criticise RU or read here!

    “It seems to me that RU is guilty of exactly the same type of “Group think” which they accuse OMF”
    Not according to the psychologists…

    Hi Laura – welcome to the ‘madness’ 😉

    Comment by Caryn — July 4, 2010 @ 12:15 pm

  25. avatar

    We would be wise to listen to the words of Brother Jeff and withhold our final verdict in the Great Sauce Debate. This is surely a serious issue for all mankind… Please, people of Earth- do not rush to judgment. Thank God Little Lord Murnus has brought it to our attention.

    Quote Brother Jeff at Amkon:
    “Gotta admit I’m totally on the fence about this whole Source A thing too. On the one hand, it could be true that there’s a group of flying molten lava men who liase with Earth’s top brass through a S+M submissive homo + two sports bar owners who’ll appear in 2017 in ships over major Earth cities.

    On the other hand… it just might be a steaming pile of Horta-shit.

    It’s just the Pickerings are so convincing, what with their total lack of evidence.”

    Amen, Brother!

    Comment by lkwalker — July 4, 2010 @ 12:32 pm

  26. avatar

    Oh and Caryn- before I forget…

    The word “lee” in the Horta language- translates to, “douche.”

    Comment by lkwalker — July 4, 2010 @ 12:45 pm

  27. avatar

    Phil, various individuals, on both sides of the debate, have been warned via PM and/or given temporary suspensions. Members are not taken to task for their opinions, but for breaches of the terms of service and even then only countless repeated breaches will result in a permanent ban.

    If Andy/Mur was honest he would admit that he was given temporary suspensions countless times, and that OMF staff members went as far as to reach out to him in telephone conversations, long before he recieved a permanent ban for repeated infractions.

    Have we made mistakes from time to time? Inevitably.

    Comment by Lee — July 4, 2010 @ 12:57 pm

  28. avatar

    “26.Oh and Caryn- before I forget…

    The word “lee” in the Horta language- translates to, “douche.””

    Case in point: Even Kim Walker (AKA toon) was given numerous chances and was allowed to return with no less than 10 different sock puppet accounts before we decided that his rudness would never abait…. What can you do?

    Comment by Lee — July 4, 2010 @ 1:00 pm

  29. avatar

    Lee – I had 2 posts deleted from OM in which I was asking NYlily to present her evidence for the statement she made about me. And yet when she or Ms Agent99 make demands of evidence, and can be quite rude in the process, they get pats on the back. That is bias by any normal interpretation.

    Comment by Caryn — July 4, 2010 @ 1:12 pm

  30. avatar

    @Lee
    I am not talking about bannings.

    Why have certain posts made by certain members, who lean more to the Theilmann being a fraud theory, been deleted, while obvious off topic posts (“Thank you Uncle Ivo”) are still there? I’ve never got any warning and my pm in which I’ve asked why my post has been removed hasn’t been answered yet. I was also not refering to certain people who have been banned/suspended recently.

    Comment by philliman — July 4, 2010 @ 1:20 pm

  31. avatar

    “we decided that his rudness would never abait”

    Well put!:lol:

    Comment by lkwalker — July 4, 2010 @ 3:55 pm

  32. avatar

    After following links provided by Admin and Jake at OM on the Serpo story, I read the entire story presented by Shawna at the serpo.info site.

    All I can say if what was done to out the story was considered “wrong”, these two wrongs (those planning the hoax) and (those pretending to be someone else) made it all “right”!

    If only we could review the behind the scenes information about the “Source A” story…… would we see another hoax played out?

    Thanks Admin and Jake for the links, what they have shown me is how these hoaxes come about, I just don’t understand the “why” really.

    I certainly appreciate the fact that the RU Team outed it, no matter what means were used.

    Thanks guys!

    Comment by Pam — July 4, 2010 @ 4:03 pm

  33. avatar

    @Lee
    Are you going to retract your incorrect and libellous statement about “illegal access to Serpo.org” in order to read your emails?
    For one thing, there never was any illegal access to serpo.org as even Bill Ryan himself stated, and secondly, neither you nor any other OM member of staff had an account on serpo.org.

    Lie much?

    At Reality Uncovered we deal with exposing hoaxes and scams, is there any wonder your site gets mentioned more than any other?!

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 4, 2010 @ 4:10 pm

  34. avatar

    @ Stephen, it was clear to me in the story as told by Shawna, that any information obtained was handed to you on a silver platter, I didn’t see any illegal doings.

    Comment by Pam — July 4, 2010 @ 4:21 pm

  35. avatar

    Lee, with all due respect, I suspect RU writes about OMF because OMF over a five year period has seem to become less of an ‘Openminded community’ and more of a ‘believe everything, question nothing’ community. When a forum is going to play host to what are inevitably found to be hoaxes, that can attract attention, be it criticism or praise.

    For instance, one would have assumed that before granting the Pickerings their own guest board and putting the UN/Source A saga on center stage, that the OMF staff would have investigated the claims, viewed the same credentials that Salla viewed, and at least attempted to verify the story in one form or another before fully endorsing it as a disclosure.

    In essence, OMF’s endorsement gave the UN/SourceA disclosure credibility in the eyes of many of its members though no evidence of credibility was offered by OMF.

    The MO of OpenMinds Forum is that they will give anyone a stage. In doing so, they help to spread and disseminate false hoods, hoaxes, lies, and deception. The disinformation artists only need bring their tale to OMF for a platform.

    This is why RU writes about and criticizes OMF. It has a history of endorsing and propagating hoaxes. The question of why is anyone’s guess but the process OMF has practiced over 5 years is somewhat damaging to the already skewed view of Ufology by the general public.

    Comment by jeddyhi — July 4, 2010 @ 4:23 pm

  36. avatar

    Dear Ryan,
    There happens to be another cause for these peoples reaction to the mysterious and that is the disgraceful way these subjects have been treated by mainstream scientist. I believe this is one of the main reason people seek answers in these cuts. If you happen to go to a scientist even with a close encounter they are going to throw an answer that you know is not right. If something extraordinary happens and it changes your whole belief system then your intellectual and emotional state made become a vacuum on these subjects that need to be filled. So it is easy to throw these terms out about these people however unless we understand how some UFO witnesses really react to this mind blowing experience we (UFO Community & UFO investigators) will be a part of the problem not the solution.

    Thank You
    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters
    Non-Commercial Blog

    Comment by Joseph Capp — July 4, 2010 @ 6:04 pm

  37. avatar

    yes OM is Cult and I feel fine with that.
    but sometimes I must wonder why they discuss
    that Source A story instead of the real thing :-)

    Comment by tinyhat — July 4, 2010 @ 6:41 pm

  38. avatar

    And exactly who was the first OMoid to welcome these crazies to the board when they first showed up in April of 2008? Why- it was none other than our Murnut! Oh the humanity!

    Comment by lkwalker — July 4, 2010 @ 6:56 pm

  39. avatar

    I’d gladly post the link on RU but it seems that that reality is not allowed to be uncovered. I’ve been banned.

    Comment by lkwalker — July 4, 2010 @ 7:00 pm

  40. avatar

    Steve wrote:
    “@Lee
    Are you going to retract your incorrect and libellous statement about “illegal access to Serpo.org” in order to read your emails?”

    The only criminal act I recall at that time I have already mentioned.
    Re post:
    SHERLPO scrap of 2006. Martinez emailed several people a report written by a PI allegedly engaged by Doty. The report contained personal information on 3 members of RU, such as home addresses, family details, work details ect and Shawnna’s & Ryan’s SSN. The email was sent to a number of recipients – including several MODs on the OMF – Funny though, I don’t recall them accusing Martinez and Doty of a criminal act re: the obtaining of Shawnna’s & Ryan’s SNN and distributing that and personal information via a stream of emails! I still have the emails and responses should anyone at OM need their memories refreshing!

    Comment by Caryn — July 4, 2010 @ 9:40 pm

  41. avatar

    Yes you have, but if memory serves you mentioned it already several times. All it shows is your own rigid belief system, being unable to accept that opinions change over time.

    Oops, edit to add this comment was directed at Kim, not Caryn!

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 4, 2010 @ 9:45 pm

  42. avatar

    “At Reality Uncovered we deal with exposing hoaxes and scams, is there any wonder your site gets mentioned more than any other?!”

    BINGO

    “35.Lee, with all due respect, I suspect RU writes about OMF because OMF over a five year period has seem to become less of an ‘Openminded community’ and more of a ‘believe everything, question nothing’ community. When a forum is going to play host to what are inevitably found to be hoaxes, that can attract attention, be it criticism or praise.

    For instance, one would have assumed that before granting the Pickerings their own guest board and putting the UN/Source A saga on center stage, that the OMF staff would have investigated the claims, viewed the same credentials that Salla viewed, and at least attempted to verify the story in one form or another before fully endorsing it as a disclosure.

    In essence, OMF’s endorsement gave the UN/SourceA disclosure credibility in the eyes of many of its members though no evidence of credibility was offered by OMF.

    The MO of OpenMinds Forum is that they will give anyone a stage. In doing so, they help to spread and disseminate false hoods, hoaxes, lies, and deception. The disinformation artists only need bring their tale to OMF for a platform.

    This is why RU writes about and criticizes OMF. It has a history of endorsing and propagating hoaxes. The question of why is anyone’s guess but the process OMF has practiced over 5 years is somewhat damaging to the already skewed view of Ufology by the general public.”

    BINGO BINGO BINGO

    Comment by Mike — July 4, 2010 @ 11:18 pm

  43. avatar

    Agent 99’s posts on OM (now deleted I believe?) were truly spiteful – and have been noted.

    The members of RT’s family I have had any dealings with are decent, respectful folk. The actions of one family member should not in any way reflect on the rest of the family or tarnish the memories of lost loved ones. So try to keep this in mind when making posts and a little sensitivity would be appreciated by the family at this time, I’m sure.

    Comment by Caryn — July 4, 2010 @ 11:30 pm

  44. avatar

    Those posts by Agent99 were truly vile.
    The fact that OM admins and mods have tried to eradicate the naysayers in their latest cull, yet allow that disgusting excuse of a human being continue to post, is yet another example of the cult at work.

    Comment by Stephen Broadbent — July 5, 2010 @ 12:05 am

  45. avatar

    Lee is a liar…I never violated the ToS….not even once….and they cannot produce one post that is in violation.

    Lee rationalization fail. You and your cult cohorts are a disgrace and blight on ufology.

    Comment by Andy Murray — July 5, 2010 @ 6:06 am

  46. avatar

    “Are you going to retract your incorrect and libellous statement about “illegal access to Serpo.org” in order to read your emails? For one thing, there never was any illegal access to serpo.org as even Bill Ryan himself stated, and secondly, neither you nor any other OM member of staff had an account on serpo.org.”

    If the access had taken place by another foreign national, say Anna Chapman and associates, how would the actions taken by Mr. Broadbent be interpreted by the US Justice Department?

    I am not implying anything here — but I am interested because the details of the alleged accessing of a message stream included a US senior government consultant’s private email messages (Kit Green).

    Under US law, Kit may have been required to report this to the US Justice Department (keep in mind most spy activities involve accessing mundane information). Mainstream Media is now saying the US is now ‘infested’ by Russian Spies (sleeper agents, access agents, etc.).

    Also this today in the Washington Post:

    The serious spying these days is in cyberspace

    Cyber-espionage can gather so much information that the spymasters need their Anna Chapmans as spotters to tell the real agents — the bots and zombies and trapdoors — what to steal.

    Comment by Gary Bekkum — July 5, 2010 @ 2:01 pm

  47. avatar

    In all fairness I would have to concede that RU’s initial access to serpo.org was indeed granted by Bill Ryan. I’m not sure that he meant to give any access to emails though, nor did he give permission for RU to still have access several months later when they ‘helped themselves’ to copys of the fake release 22 image. Anyway it’s old news now…..
    ___________________________

    John – If you truly believe that OMF “endores” every single thread on the forum then I can understand your low opinion of us. (Maybe we should add a disclamier to make that a bit clearer?)
    ___________________________

    And to top it all, Andy denies that he was ever rude on the OMF, and follows by rudely calling me a liar. Andy do you deny that Ivo went far beyond reasonable courtesy by talking through our concerns rather than simply banning you “for your opinions”….?

    Never mind, twice now I have been called a liar here. Not very polite, you don’t get that at OM you know. 😉

    Comment by Lee — July 5, 2010 @ 7:05 pm

  48. avatar

    No, you get banned at OM with a ‘Bannings are not to be discussed’ disclaimer.

    OMF is like a super market tabloid looking for whatever page filler they can find. They do not care if a story is true of false, they just want it. Truth of the matter is secondary to giving it a platform. That mentality allows OMF to host whatever junk they see fit, all in the name of disclosure. But actually by hosting meaningless junk and disinfo, OMF hurts the integrity of Ufology.

    You know what the difference is between a supermarket tabloid and a respectable newspaper?
    One will print anything, no matter how outrageous, to sell more copies. The other strives to print true factual articles that are based in a reality of fact checking and investigative research.

    In other words, the difference is quality.

    Comment by jeddyhi — July 5, 2010 @ 7:28 pm

  49. avatar

    Very well said John – very eloquent and to the point. The folks you are “talking to” here, Lee in particular, may not get your point, but I do believe most readers scanning these comments will certainly get it.

    Comment by RyanDube — July 5, 2010 @ 10:27 pm

  50. avatar

    @GARY

    “I am not implying anything here — but I am interested because the details of the alleged accessing of a message stream included a US senior government consultant’s private email messages (Kit Green).”

    I’m trying to respond to your comment with a straight face, but sometimes I can’t help but chuckle at some of the stuff you come up with. I like you Gary, but man you’re a bit loopy.

    First – If Kit decides to send an email to info@serpo.org, is it Steve’s fault that Kit didn’t practice appropriate precautions with sending his emails to a public web server’s “info” email address that, most people with any familiarity with websites knows, is typically read by most webmasters before being passed on to the appropriate party.

    Secondly, the email address Kit used to converse in the Serpo.org “Team of Five” were from his own non-government email account (I don’t even think he has ever used any sort of government email account since 1985) – further making your comment above a bit comical.

    With your logic, every time Kit willingly sends an email exchange to any foreign person, like Caryn or Steve, or any time he contacts an “INFO” email address for any website that could have a foreign webmaster, he would have to report his non-government activities and conversations to the Justice Department. I wonder how long it would take before the DOJ guys mark Kit as a Loony? (Assuming they haven’t already….)

    -Ry

    Comment by RyanDube — July 5, 2010 @ 10:34 pm

  51. avatar

    Hi Ryan,

    The issue is not the content of Kit’s emails nor the accounts used to send them, but the willful interception by someone who is not the intended recipient.

    Furthermore, the information does not need to be government-related, since elicitation is often used to obtain personal information with the intention of providing an advantage against the injured party.

    Many organizations include a legal paragraph in the message to make this clear, in the event of a lawsuit (I’ve been using this one for years):

    This email transmission and any files
    that accompany it may contain sensitive
    (and /or confidential) information belonging
    to the sender.  It was not intended for
    transmission to, or receipt by, any
    unauthorized persons.

    If you are not the intended recipient
    you are hereby notified that any
    disclosure, copying, distribution or
    the taking of any action in reliance
    on the content of this information
    is strictly prohibited.

    Comment by Gary ****** — July 6, 2010 @ 12:48 am

  52. avatar

    Gary – if I hold a conversation with someone about a very sensitive topic, and I happen to accidentally CC you on the conversation with an email address that you have every legal right to access and read – and so you read them – does that constitute “interception” in your mind? If so you have a strange sense of the word. If there were specific intended recipients, then he shouldn’t have cc’d a generic email address like “info@serpo.org” on those email exchanges.

    Thanks for the legal paragraph – and you’ll noticed that none of the published team of five emails had such a paragraph attached. Although lots of them started using it after the Serpo hoax got busted. :)

    Again – no “interception” took place. As far as “elicitation” – that goes many ways. People could claim the same about you every time you email Ron, for example. Many of these activities (even by me – I am not naive) can trigger interest by the FBI and flag a person as a potential spy.

    With that said, since we know that we aren’t spies – let the FBI poke, prod and practice due diligence….when you aren’t doing anything wrong, there’s nothing to worry about. It’s the guys who are knowingly involved in the illegal activities (fraud, stolen valor, etc…) who need to worry.

    -Ry

    Comment by RyanDube — July 6, 2010 @ 2:00 am

  53. avatar

    To the OMF administrators:

    What is your excuse for continuing to allow membership to someone who has repeatedly violated the ToS AND posted a libelous statement about a deceased Marine’s widow then sent the widow the link for that post in an email in an attempt to entice her to join the forum to defend herself?

    Comment by oboe — July 6, 2010 @ 10:36 am

  54. avatar

    Originally Posted by hp
    “My post was meant to point out censoring. I don’t care much about a stupid hoax and who becomes famous for outing it. Will someone be sad or take any ownership if this RT man is found dead with a suicide note. (Other than claiming the gov did it to continue the hoax).”

    And replied BE2
    “Well if the Sauce blows out his brains surely the Merd has no responsibility. What has he done except expose a sick guy to ridicule and turn him in to the government for a little waterboarding? C’mon.”

    Now if, on the other hand, Barbara Sauce buys the farm- that one’s on Eddie the K and the Merdnut.

    Comment by toon — July 6, 2010 @ 4:21 pm

  55. avatar

    I’d like to know the answer to Oboe’s question as well.

    Comment by RyanDube — July 6, 2010 @ 5:45 pm

  56. avatar

    Re: UN / ScA-RT – Discussion & Follow Up V
    « Reply #230 Today at 9:22pm »

    ——————————————————————————–
    “I see Caryn has chickened out.

    I don’t think she realized what she was getting into.”

    No, Jake – I’m embarrassed that I was on the membership list on OM! I have now corrected that….

    Comment by Caryn — July 6, 2010 @ 9:33 pm

  57. avatar

    Re: UN / ScA-RT – Discussion & Follow Up V
    « Reply #236 Today at 9:36pm »

    ——————————————————————————–
    Admin: “Caryn, you don’t seem to understand sub judice or the conditional legal states between investigation, arrest, charge or prosecution.”

    I understand it well you arrogant twit! – my point was missed. Jedd clearly stated it later.

    Admin: “We notice you have deleted your own account here.”

    Absolutely. You have nothing to offer….

    Comment by Caryn — July 6, 2010 @ 9:47 pm

  58. avatar

    I’d like to know the answer to Oboe’s question as well

    Comment by Mike — July 7, 2010 @ 12:21 am

  59. avatar

    Bitter Sweet Truth…

    Should I liook for the sweet truth of this any where else?…

    Trackback by Bitter Sweet Truth — July 7, 2010 @ 9:25 pm

  60. avatar

    To the Open Minds Forum administrators/owners:

    What is your excuse for continuing to allow membership to someone who has repeatedly violated the ToS AND posted a libelous statement about a deceased Marine’s widow then sent the widow the link for that post in an email in an attempt to entice her to join the forum to defend herself?

    What is your excuse?

    Comment by oboe — July 8, 2010 @ 1:48 am

RSS feed for comments on this post.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.



Reality Uncovered Social Networking
Visit us on Facebook! Follow us on Twitter! Reality Uncovered on You Tube




RU Custom Search

Help support the continued growth of Reality Uncovered