Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

A spiritual perspective on phenomenon

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Postby ScaRZ » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:33 pm

If any of the UFO and ET stories have truth to them, that say ET crafts have crashed and dead bodies of the ET were found on board or some survived to later die.......HOW could this be if they are Angels[spirit creations]? A spiritual body which is exactly what Angels are can't die a mortal death as a flesh and blood body[man] does.

Another route to go is that through mating,mixing,genetics or some form of cloning with Angels and the seed of man we have more of their offspring,part spiritual body plus part seed of man[flesh and blood]. They the offspring could then have a fleshly side death as the Nephillim did in the past.

Then we can dig that hole a little deeper by adding the thought of Angels alone or with the use of their offspring, mixing the seed of man with themselves, plus and or just with other creatures as animal, fowl and reptiles in a type of cloning. Again we can see how that flesh side would die as a man does.

As far as a Demon[evil spirit] goes,how could this be a demon?
Demons[evil spirits] have no physical bodies as man,animal or creature. They must occupy someone or somethings body, because they are nothing but a spirit and have no flesh side to die as man and beast.

They can't in my eyes be just Angels and Demons on their own. There would have to be some form of mixing with a fleshly side creature or be disguised within them.

Now if the crashes as Roswell have absolutely no truth to them about ET dead bodies or dying ET then we have a completely different story.


I believe we have been visited for thousands of years. I'm more of a spiritual believer in the gods of the heavens. I'm a Bible prophecy student for 20+ years and link most to Angels, Angelic offspring with the seed of man (Woman), and also the manufacturing of and from themselves by a form of cloning. I can't close my mind to God having other creations in this eternal universe either, but would link most to the Watchers( Fallen Ones or Those Who Fell ).

I don't think they ever were just limited to reproduce of themselves through sex as we know it, but they manufactured,built,constructed Androids and Hybrids with...DNA...cloning... in the mix as well as material things. They also messed around with creatures,animals,and reptiles to further the mixing and creating off creation.

God very well may have had other creations after the Angels, before man other than beast,fowl,creeping things or life in the sea. Only God can give the answer to this question. As I stated before I believe IF we are being visited by Aliens most that are visiting us are what I believe are creatures OFF CREATION. I believe most were not a creation of God, but OFF his creation.

The main thing to focus on is that we are all being used as a type of testing ground. They put these releases and other UFO, Alien stories out to watch the conversation and see how we react to it. Are we getting the under belly of the story? Ufology is a first line of defense in the ultimate goal of branching out into the world. They are using each of us and Ufology to build a base. We will be their prophets,we will be their ministers,we will be their teachers.

It's the infant stage we are living in today of a huge agenda in the making. I compare it much to desensitizing the population.
It's a very gradual process that can't be forced to quickly on society.

The goals will never change, no matter how long the journey. Baby steps will soon turn into adolescent steps and then move into the adult stage of steps. Once we reach the adult steps it will be rolling at a greater pace and will cover ground much quicker. The adult stage will begin and end very quickly.

I believe this will be a HUGE part in the great falling away spoken of in the Bible. People will turn away from the one true God and Christ and begin to worship an Alien god. This will not ONLY affect Christianity but also all other religious faith based systems.
The ultimate goal will be to move ALL under one umbrella......THIS I believe is the New Age.
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Postby ScaRZ » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:25 am

I see so much of a New Age religion,mystics and the occult moving into Ufology. Don't you wonder who or what is pulling the strings to steer it? Are we being fooled by someone into falling for Aliens to push a bigger purpose? One thing for sure is that many in Ufology are talking the same talk as the New Age religions are.

So much of Ufology is all about ET coming to bring peace and enlighten us to the truth of who we are and where we came from. The Aliens are our gods,they are our seeders,they made us. They will then lead us into an awakening, leading us into a realm of peace and knowledge. The Aliens will claim to be responsible not only for our design, but will also take credit for guiding and giving us religious leaders like [Jesus, Buddha and Mohammad].

They will then tell humans that we are ready for the next step up the evolutionary ladder to become as they are....."gods". Every bit of this is what the New Age is trying to teach. Reminds me of some of the same things that happened in the descending of the Watchers and teaching their offspring and man the secrets of the heavens. You can't help but see it when you've studied it for a long time.

Here below is just one of many and this is some of what they're saying.

The Cosmic Masters are advanced spiritual beings from the higher realms of other planets. They come again at this time to help humanity through its pending transition into the New Age.

The Next Master

The following prophecy was pronounced by a spiritually evolved extraterrestrial known as a Lord Of Karma on Sunday, November 23rd, 1958 at approximately 2:30 p.m. GMT.
It was delivered in a physical voice to Dr. George King on a holy mountain named Brown Willy in Cornwall, England. This was the second mountain Charged through Dr. George King in the world mission known as Operation Starlight. Directly following this charging, Dr. King was asked to stand on a certain place atop Brown Willy.

It was then that this historic proclamation was made.

"There will shortly come Another among you.

He will stand tall among men with a shining countenance[THIS SOUNDS LIKE A NORDIC OR TALL WHITE BLONDE] This One will be attired in a single garment of the type now known to you. His shoes will be soft-topped, yet not made of the skin of animals.

He will approach the Earth leaders. They will ask of Him, His credentials. He will produce these.

His magic will be greater than any upon Earth - greater than the combined materialistic might of all the armies. And they who heed not His words, shall be removed from the Earth.

This Rock is now Holy - and will remain so for as long as the World exists.

Go ye forth and spread My Word throughout the World, so that all men of pure heart may prepare for His coming."

A Lord of Karma
November 23, 1958


Notes:

Further information about the coming of the next Master is available in a lecture given by Dr. King, The Next Master is Coming.
The "single garment of the type now known to you." is a type of spacesuit commonly described by many who have had close encounters with extraterrestrials. They are one-piece suits that seem to cling to the body of the extraterrestrial and do not wrinkle as the being moves.

This Master will arrive on Earth in a spacecraft, openly. Unlike previous Cosmic Masters such as the Master Jesus, the Lord Krishna and others, he will be allowed by Karmic Law to use his great powers. There will be no question of who he is and where he came from.

The coming of this great Avatar, will be a pivotal point in the New Age. After his coming, those who are not ready to go forward into the era of Light - the New Age - will slowly be removed from the Earth to be reborn on another less evolved planet. They will then continue to learn through experience, only under much more difficult conditions than are now present on Earth. All who are ready will stay upon Earth and join together to build for themselves the much prophesied New Age.

The next Master will come to Earth only when the time is right, as decided by the Karmic Lords. It could be within ten years or it could be a hundred years or even longer. It depends on humanity's progress. When humanity evolves to a certain stage, and enough people are firmly on the ladder of spiritual growth, then the karma will be such that he can come.

When this Cosmic Master does come, this will not be the end of our worries and work - far from it. This will be the time when our real work starts. It will then be the task of all spiritual workers to rally around this one both when he is here and after he has left, in order to help as many people as possible evolve and stay on Earth to join in the dawning of the New Age.

It is important for all New Age workers, no matter where they are, or what name of God they follow, to redouble their efforts now during this crucial time, in order to help pave the way for the coming of this next Avatar.

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Postby ScaRZ » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:48 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:There are many of us who have studied gnostic concepts (and even grown up Catholic) who believe the Church essentially "chopped off the head of God" when they decided to prevent any of the Apocryphal texts from being included in the Canon. Some say (and I tend to agree) that this was a political move geared towards ensuring the "sheep of their flock" would not have the deeper knowledge of heaven, and so the Church would have to act as the intermediary and interpreter thereof. It is suggested this is where the Roman-Catholic Church was first "politicized" and that its teachings since have continued to stray because of this suppression of what some believe to be "key" information.


You bring up some great points YCCMR and hopefully I can learn much from both you and Ryan. I know little about the Catholic faith and where it stands on many of these ideas.
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Postby wetsystems » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:17 pm

Who are you consulting with, JRR Tolkien? I don't really believe that the world would be well served by a return to medieval nonsense. Do you?

Isn't this the very irrational xxxx that RU was established to oppose and correct?

**Mod edit - removed rude comment**
And I should remark that I am saving my insults for Toon for "just the right time" when I will strike at his soft, white underbelly for maximum damage and humiliation. Ray Hudson 2007
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Postby ryguy » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:17 pm

wetsystems wrote:Isn't this the very irrational xxxx that RU was established to oppose and correct?


All ideas are considered as valid so long as documentation/evidence is provided to support it. Scarz has provided more than enough of that in the form of ancient text. Once I finish this current time-consuming project we're working on, I'm going to provide some more contemporary evidence that supports Scarz hypothesis above. That is - not only that current contacts/abductions and UFO sightings are related to spiritual entities, but that there is a group actively using the field of ufology to put forth their own religious ideas.

Please be careful Kim. Calling anyone's thoughts "irrational" won't bring any more warnings. We're through with warnings. Got it? A number of people could turn around and make the same statement about your thoughts - how far would that get us exactly?

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"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

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Postby wetsystems » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:56 pm

Main Entry: 1ir·ra·tio·nal
Pronunciation: i-'ra-sh(&-)n&l, "i(r)-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin irrationalis, from in- + rationalis rational
: not rational: as a (1) : not endowed with reason or understanding (2) : lacking usual or normal mental clarity or coherence b : not governed by or according to reason <irrational fears> c Greek & Latin prosody


Main Entry: 2crap
Function: noun
Etymology: British dialect crap, craps residue from rendered fat, from Middle English crappe, perhaps from Old French crappe chaff, residue, from Medieval Latin crappa


Thus: 'irrational crap'
And I should remark that I am saving my insults for Toon for "just the right time" when I will strike at his soft, white underbelly for maximum damage and humiliation. Ray Hudson 2007
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Postby ryguy » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:02 pm

What is considered "irrational" is subjective.

For example, I consider it highly irrational to repeat the same offensive remark after receiving an edit and a warning. You clearly do not. It's subjective.

You are suspended for a month.

If you start emailing people, trying to create drama, and attempting to cause hate and discontent as a form of "retribution", you can consider yourself permanently banned.

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Postby ryguy » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:30 pm

The ban is now permanent. Toon will never again set foot at RU.

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Postby ScaRZ » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:18 am

Hundreds of thousands of people in many parts of the world are claiming they are encountering UFO entities in one way or another. They have had what is called an "Close Encounter of the Third or Fourth Kind", a term used by ufologist J. Allen Hynek. There is also growing public interest in this phenomena due to media attention. Some CONTACTEES AND ABDUCTEES ...as well as some claiming to be channelling ET's or establishing contact through remote veiwing are being revealed the following kinds of information:

- We are not alone in the Universe. We are told - this earth has been visited many times in the past and presently by different types of extra-terrestrials. These ET's have been involved with our creation, evolution, religions, myths, beliefs, etc.

- Some contactees are being told that humans are the consequence of ET encounters with earlier forms of man. Without this contact man never would have evolved to the point we have. Rael, the chosen prophet and messiah of the Raelian movement was told as as contactee, that mankind was created by a group of ET's called the Elohim using advanced genetic engineering in laboratories 4. Others who believe in the messages of the Pleiadians are told, that the Pleiadian ancestors were some of the Original Planners of Earth who seeded this and other worlds.12 What ever the explanation we are told ET's are involved with our evolution and creation.

- Some contactees are being told that: "Humankind stands now in the transitional period before the dawn of a New Age. (With peace, love and understanding, the people of Earth will see a great new era begin to dawn.) The Space Beings are here to teach, to help awaken the human spirit, to help humankind rise to higher levels of vibration so that the people of Earth may be ready to enter new dimensions. 1. We are poised for a quantum leap forward on both the biological and spiritual levels. The human soul will evolve.

- "If the Earthlings should not raise their vibratory rate within a set period of time, severe earth changes and major cataclysms will take place. (Such disasters will not end the world, but shall serve as cataclysmic crucibles to burn off the dross of unreceptive humanity. Those who die in such dreadful purgings will be allowed to reincarnate on higher levels of development so that their salvation will be more readily accomplished through higher teachings on a higher vibratory level.)" 2

- Others are being told that the receptive or chosen will be saved by benign ET's and their ships when these disasters take place. Some like the Raelians are told they will experience some kind of eternal existance through further genetic engineering ie. cloning.

- A major leap in consciousness and evolution is about to take place: Crop circles, UFO sightings and contactee and abductee experiences are preparing those who are receptive of these changes. Events such as the Harmonic Convergence are lifting the veil so the Higher Galactic intelligences of the universe will be able to channel their energies and influences to facillitate the shift towards a New Age.12

- Evidence for these claims are: the many abductee and contactee experiences with similar stories and messages, physical scars, hybrid babies, recognition of some kind of symbolic or hieroglyphic language etc. There seems to be according to researchers increasing cases worldwide of UFO sightings, crop or landing circles, animal mutilations, abductions of men, women and children.

-According to Dr. Karla Turner, who has worked with over 400 abduction cases and has written the book "Into the Fringe", says if abduction accounts can be believed and there is confirmation of many of these facts with other researchers - the abduction phenomena includes some of the following details: from -UFO Universe, Spring 1993. Aliens -Friends or Foes by Dr. Karla Turner:

* Aliens can alter our perceptions of our surroundings.

* Aliens can control what we think we see. They can appear to us any number of guises and shapes.

* Aliens can be present with us in an invisible state and can make themselves only partially visible.

* Abductees receive marks on their bodies other than the well-known scoops and straight-line scars. These other marks include single punctures, multiple punctures, large bruises, three-and four fingered claw marks, and trangles of every possible sort.

* Female abductees often suffer serious gynecological problems after their alien encounters, and sometimes these problems lead to cysts, tumors, cancer of the breast and uterus, and to hysterectomies.

* A surprising number of abductees suffer from serious illnesses they didn't have before their encounters. These have led to surgery, debilitation, and even death from causes the doctors can't identify.

* Abductees often encounter more than one sort of alien during an experience, not just the greys. Every possible combination of grey, reptoid, insectoid, blond, and widow's peak have been seen during single abductions, aboard the same craft or in the same facility.

* Abductees report being scoffed at, jeered at, and threatened by their alien captors. Painful genital and anal probes are performed... Unknown fluids are injected into some abductees.

* Abductees-"virgin" cases- report being taken to underground facilities where they see grotesque hybrid creatures, nurseries of hybrid humanoid fetuses, and vats of colored liquid filled with parts of human bodies.

* Abductees report seeing other humans in these facilities being drained of blood, being mutilated, flayed, and dismembered, and stacked, lifeless like cords of wood. Some abductees have been threatened that they, too, will end up in this condition if they don't co-operate with their alien captors.

* Aliens come into homes and temorary remove young children, leaving their distraught parents paralyzed and helpless. In cases where a parent has been able to protest, the aliens insist that "The children belong to us."

* Aliens have forced ther human abductees to have sexual intercourse with aliens and even with other abductees while groups of aliens observe these performances. In such encounters, the aliens have sometimes disguised themselves in order to gain the cooperation of the abductee, appearing in such forms as Jesus, the Pope, certain celebrities, and even the dead spouses of the abductees.

* Aliens perform extremely painful experiments or procedures on abductees, saying that these acts are necessary but give no explanation why.....Painful genital and anal probes are performed, on children as well as adults.

* Aliens make predictions of an imminent period of global chaos and destruction. They say that a certain number of humans...will be "rescued" from the planet in order to continue the species, either on another planet or back on earth after the destruction is over. Many abductees report they don't believe their alien captors and foresee instead a much more sinister use of the "rescued" humans.

"In every instance from this list, there are multiple reports from unrelated cases, confirming that such bizzarre details are not the product of a single deranged mind. These details are convincing evidence that, contrary to the claims of many UFO researchers, the abduction experience isn't limited to uniform pattern of events. This phenomenon simply can't be explained in terms of cross-breeding experiments or scientific research into the human physiology....... Before we allow ourselves to believe in the benevolence of the alien interaction , we should ask, do enlightened beings need to use the cover of night to perform good deeds? Do they need to paralyze us and render us helpless to resist? Do angels need to steal our fetuses? Do they need to manipulate our children's genitals and probe our rectums? Are fear, pain, and deception consistent with high spiritual motives?" ......Dr. Karla Turner.

SOME PHILOSOPHICAL AND OTHER PROBLEMS WITH THESE MESSAGES

- While there seems to be evidence for UFO related activties as mentioned above, perhaps there are other possible explanations. There seems to be from reports and research, components which parallel paranormal, psychic, and spiritistic manifestations, etc.5,6. Many UFO abductees, contactees and researchers, for instance, believe there is an interdimensional or multidemensional quality to the UFO phenomena and related experiences. Although the UFO phenomena may appear real enough, it also could be a holigraphic illusion or a transmorification of matter and energy. Perhaps certain intelligences have the power to shape matter and spirit. Some ufos and their occupants seem to have an ability to shape shift and appear and disappear 5,6. Dr. J. Allen Hyneck suggested the phenomena appears to be more psychic than extra-terrestial and perhaps comes from a parallel world. This also seems to be Dr. Jacque Vallee's explanation 6, 9.

-Dr. Vallee also notes that there are authoritarian overtones to some of the messages given to contactees 8 ie. democracy is obsolete, elections should be done away with 4, racist idealogies are encouraged - some have more alien DNA etc., a New World Order is needed and will be set up with alien help. He also believes that some kind of control system is being set up by the UFO phenomena which challenges our traditions and human beliefs systems 6,8. Many abductees report implants and feel they are being manipulated for some unknown purpose that's yet to be revealed.

- Much of the messages given to abductees and contactees seem to be New Age in philosophical orientation and language: there are no moral absolutes, reincarnation is taught, monistic beliefs such as a vague "kinship with the Cosmos and it's oneness with the Universe or the Universe as a supreme being" are common, we are being told that "we stand on the precipice of a quantum leap forward on both a biological and spiritual level." Man is or is becoming God...etc. 3,13.

- If man is one with the cosmos or some impersonal concept of God there cannot be a basis for truth or ethics. The impersonal, as such is silent about such things. There is no basis for saying anything is right or wrong if all is one with God. What you are left with is total relativism or the arbitrary absolutes of the controllers who ever they may be. "If All is One, good and evil are reconciled, then one can can do nothing bad; thus Manson was only acting logically....the fact that Manson's followers knew him as both Satan and Christ highlights the collapse of distinctions between good and evil under moral relativity".13.

- As well, finite alien creators cannot provide sufficent absolutes. You have the same problems as pagan polytheisium - the gods are too small to account for the creation of the universe and not good enough to provide a basis of morals and truth. Is abducting and raping women okay if extra-terrestials do it? Also, why all the authoritorian overtones to some of the messages? Do they really have our best interest in mind or is there evidence of some kind of control system?

- There are several alien types taking credit for the creation of man and now some contactees like Rael and Benjamine Cream are claiming to be prophets of some messianic authority. In fact Rael is claiming to be the new final prophet and chosen "Messiah" of this age...chosen by a group of extra-terrestials who call themselves the Eloheim who told Rael that they created the human race through genetic engineering. Rael has over 35,000 followers world wide who call themselves Raelians...and they wish with the Eloheim's help -to usher in a world government ruled by an autoritarian elite. 4.

Cream is promoting another "messiah" he calls "Maytrea". Full page ads in newspapers around the world has announced that this world teacher is in the world to-day. Cream is also convinced that the intelligences behind the crop circle phenomena are paving the way for the soon unveiling of his messiah who will usher in a New World Order and a New Age.

Skye Ambrose, a famous abductee who was "born again" as she said as a result her encounter with a strange "grey" type alien with bright sparkling eyes, predicted at a recent UFO conference in Bellevue, Washington; that "evolution was entering a "peak cycle" that will create a New Order on the planet. Polarization is occuring on this planet to separate those who will accept the message and evolve toward Unity and Oneness and self-realized Godhood and those who will not not."

- Many alien prophesies to contactees of the 50's or to-day have failed to come true or appear to be outright lies. 14. Many contactees and abductees to-day are again delivering warnings of coming earth changes and disasters along with promises of help from aliens...they feel choosen to deliver a message to mankind ...the prophesies may be creating a false hope and dependancy in their abductors who they know little about.

- So what are we dealing with? New Age aliens with some promise of a golden age or some unimaginable deception to enslave undescerning minds. The evidence seems to point to the latter. There have been many false messianic claims and those foolish enough to repeat history by following the voices of deceiving entities have been warned to "beware of false prophets and Christs who come disguised as sheep but underneath are ravenous wolves ".10 We should be reminded of the likes of Adolf Hitler who not long ago promised a New Age to unsuspecting Germans.

- Whitley Striber, in a recent issue of the monthly MUFON Journal, Sept. 93, states - "I've come away from this experience convinced of one thing: if there aren't demons out there, there might as well be, because these guys are indistinguishable from demons. Indistinguishable. To see them, to look into their eyes, is to be less - forever......." Striber seems to swing from horror to naieve trust.. you see this in his books and statements to the public. Perhaps, he is not so sure of the visitor's intentions.

- Perhaps we should heed the old warning; 'If, anyone says to you then, "Look, here is the Christ" or, "He is there", do not beleive it; for false Christ and false prophets will arise and produce great signs and portents, enough to deceive even the chosen , if that were possible."11

- Some UFO researchers suggest that perhaps the so called 'aliens' aren't much of a threat, after all if they have been around for this long and have not taken over then why should we be concerned. However, if they are not what they appear to be, and the phenomena has other potientials and realities which include: deception, false messianic claims, dangerous ideologies, the formation of cults, etc., then for historical, social and political reasons we should not abandon our need for discernment and caution.
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Postby ryguy » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:44 am

The pattern and the message does seem pretty clear throughout all of this. Here's another summary, and goes along with the same theme as described above by Scarz. The answer below doesn't represent my personal views regarding the church, but Malone's overall point seems accurate with what we see happened in cults like Heaven's Gate and others who believe in the same core story.

http://www.alienresistance.org/why_ufo_cults.htm

-----start paste----

In February of 2002, The History Channel flew Guy Malone to Los Angeles to interview him as part of a special entitled "Ufos in the Bible." Producer Gabe Vandervort sent Malone a list of 10 questions he would like Guy to discuss, the answers to which were typed out beforehand, to rehearse from (which were posted below).

While grateful for the opportunity at first, please note that the special which aired DID NOT IN FACT faithfully represent Malone's answers, but instead merely spliced in certain things said to affirm the flawed premise of the show. They did this with others who have likewise gone on record saying the same was done to them. [snip]

Question #4
What do you think is behind the belief systems of different UFO cults and their faithful reliance on salvation brought about by extraterrestrials (Heaven’s Gate)

Well before I seem like I’m being too hard on these groups, it’s worth saying that they are at the mercy of the world they were born into – the one created by the church’s cover up of Genesis 6 and the fallen angels. All throughout Jewish history and for the first 2-300 years of Christian history, the orthodox biblical view was that angels could and did abduct humans, they produced superhuman hybrids with supernatural powers, and Enoch and other ancient texts specify that they even gave us technology. But for 1500 years, the church has been teaching a false doctrine about this reality… the Sons of Seth theory.


Today, most of these UFO "cult leaders" as we call them, are contactees or abductees. They have no biblical paradigm to work with for what’s going on, so they believe whatever these beings tell them. 500 years ago, little people with big black eyes that spirited people away to caves, poked them with magic wands and had lewd sex were called elves and fairies. 1000s of years ago they were mermaids and sea gods. Well, now we’re a technological society, so they’re telling us they’re extra-terrestrials flying here in their spaceships.

The people who have contact these beings however, almost universally become New Age acolytes, and they’ll eventually either join a "ufo cult" or they’ll start one. Like I said, the church does a pretty poor job at relating to these people though, because they don’t know the truth behind Genesis 6, so they can’t really give these millions of experiencers an answer to what’s happening to them. They tend to just write them off as crazy. One of the things I’m kind of infamous for saying is that if you walked into a church and told a pastor you were abducted by aliens and you wanted help, 95% of them would probably refer you to a psychiatrist before they would refer you to Jesus Christ or the Bible for your healing.

But then they meet some New Ager or a "cult leader" … THEY tell them "Hey we’ve got a group of people just like you… why don’t you come to our meeting… why don’t you tell us your story… if you’re really good at it, we’ll put you on the speaker circuit and you can write a book." I’m obviously being sarcastic, but that’s the way it goes. These are people with real experiences and really tough questions, who the church pretty much writes off, but they go to these other groups and they find acceptance, they find community, and they even find a purpose, or a mission in becoming "ambassadors" for the aliens.

You can read online the primary doctrines of the The Raelian Religion, The Nibiruan Council, The Urantia Foundation, Heaven’s Gate, and they all say close to the same thing, they just usually disagree about where "their aliens" actually come from. But most say that the aliens really created humans, they’ve been advancing our technology over the centuries, they sent us "leaders" like Moses, Buddha, and Jesus, AND whoever the top dog in their group happens to be! This person is usually also the aliens "final prophet." They say that the aliens are here to help us. Most will use the Bible to support their claims. They just re-interpret it as one big UFO story where God is really just an advanced alien from another planet. The Mormons even say this, and they call themselves Christians. Most UFO cults identify themselves with Christianity in some way also, they’re just very hostile to the doctrines of the Bible, and especially to Christians who haven’t come into "their knowledge."

While I've clearly said this situation is largely the church’s fault - however, individuals also make choices to reject God for other reasons too. When you ask "what’s behind the UFO cults" the quick answer is found in 1 Timothy Chapter 4, which says that in the latter days, people will abandon the Christian faith "...giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

People today are in UFO cults because they are following the doctrines of these fallen angels we’re talking about. They’re believing the same things our ancestors were judged for when the earth was destroyed by flood. The bottom line is, they’re worshipping false gods. I don’t think they’re generally crazy though, they’re just in contact with entities the Bible warns about - for those who will read it anyway.
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Postby ryguy » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:53 am

You Can Call Me Ray wrote: Is it also possible that The Abyss represents the "firmament" between the world of Man and the world of God first established in the Genesis story of creation?

Interesting stuff to contemplate!
Ray


Ray - a number of people have mentioned that they found a lot of value in your post above, in fact one of our sources who chooses to remain anonymous stated that after reading 100% of this thread today he agreed with our hypothesis here - and also stated:

"I think Ray's thoughts are also very important."

Considering who this comes from, I think that there is a great deal of interest out there in your input on the possible integration of the biblical model we present here (where the entities are external forces from "outside" of us) and the "collective consciousness" model (where the entities are from forces "within" us). An integration of those two hypothesis, as you proposed above, might help us better understand where these energies might realistically come from?

-Ry
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Postby caryn » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:52 pm

"I think that there is a great deal of interest out there in your input on the possible integration of the biblical model we present here (where the entities are external forces from "outside" of us) and the "collective consciousness" model (where the entities are from forces "within" us). An integration of those two hypothesis, as you proposed above, might help us better understand where these energies might realistically come from? "

Yes, this would be of considerable interest to me too....
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Postby ScaRZ » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:00 pm

Watcher or Grigori means[Those who watch, Those who are awake, The ones who never sleep].

In the Book of Jubilees I believe it's pretty clear that the Watchers[Grigori] were send by God to watch over man, do what is just and to some degree have dominion (territory or sphere of influence or control; a realm).It appears to me that they weren't of the same group of Angels that fell with Satan.

I believe Satan did take his part in tempting them to do what they knew was wrong. Satan then became their prince when they turned their backs on God and began to lust after women,desiring to have children.

This shows the Watchers had free will to obey God or take a different route. Satan always has and always will find a willing party to do his dirty work for him. Satan wanted to corrupt the bloodline of man which he knew would lead to the birth of Christ.

Jubilees Chapter 4

15] Mahalalel took unto him to wife DinaH, the daughter of Barakiel the daughter of his father's brother, and she bare him a son in the third week in the sixth year, and he called his name Jared, for in his days the ANGELS OF THE LORD descended on the earth, those who are named the WATCHERS, that they should[instruct the children of men], and that they [should do judgment and uprightness on the earth.]

Jubilees Chapter 5

6] And against the angels[Watchers,Sons of God,Grigori] whom He[God] had sent upon the earth, He[God] was exceedingly wroth, and He[God] gave commandment to root them out of all their dominion, and He[God] bade us to bind them in the depths of the earth[Abyss,Bottomless Pit], and behold they are bound in the midst of them, and are (kept) separate.
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Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:30 pm

Hi Ry & Caryn,

ryguy wrote:
You Can Call Me Ray wrote: Is it also possible that The Abyss represents the "firmament" between the world of Man and the world of God first established in the Genesis story of creation?

Interesting stuff to contemplate!
Ray


Ray - a number of people have mentioned that they found a lot of value in your post above, in fact one of our sources who chooses to remain anonymous stated that after reading 100% of this thread today he agreed with our hypothesis here - and also stated:

"I think Ray's thoughts are also very important."

Considering who this comes from, I think that there is a great deal of interest out there in your input on the possible integration of the biblical model we present here (where the entities are external forces from "outside" of us) and the "collective consciousness" model (where the entities are from forces "within" us). An integration of those two hypothesis, as you proposed above, might help us better understand where these energies might realistically come from?

-Ry


OK. Let me collect (and attempt to cohere) my thoughts on this as I take care of some mundane chores throughout the day, and I'll post something tonight. As always, let me begin with what seems to be my "standard caveat": I do not present these types of thought as "evidence" of any sort. These are merely things I have noticed, and potential connections I have formed, as a result of my studies of the Tree Of Life geometric network in the context of my continuing investigations into Systems Theory & the human mind/body. The thoughts I present are merely suggestions, and any theories I present are certainly tentative and I welcome attempts to falsify any/all of them. :)

Back later...
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Postby ryguy » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:47 pm

Excellent...I look forward to it Ray!

Let's start a new thread called "Tree of Life" or something like that where we can do a thorough analysis of this hypothesis that integrates both the external and internal consciousness concepts. I think we'll be taking up a lot of discussion in doing that and it deserves it's own thread. Also, while it's related to the concepts Scarz is posting - I don't want to mix up too many aspects of this discussion in one thread. However I'm sure different elements of one thread will (and should) leap occassionally into the other...

Thanks for taking the time to put something together for us Ray...

-Ry
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