Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

A spiritual perspective on phenomenon

Moderators: ryguy, chrLz, Zep Tepi

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby Chorlton » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:36 pm

ScaRZ wrote:I do my best to try and find what others say on this subject. Much of it I agree with but much of it I don't. They aren't here at RU to respond if I have a question to ask or point out where I disagree. I try and let everyone judge for themselves by the subject matter. I'm not here to make fun of someone because they don't fit in my little box.

I havent made fun of anyone. My post was meant to show that different people interpret the same thing differently.
If youtook it as me making fun I apologise as it wasnt meant that way
This is a thread about all parts of the subject matter of the spirit world. ?"

Even the part that thinks it doesnt exist ? Doesnt that desere consideration, discussion, debate?

What good is having a thread on this subject matter if you can't touch it in all areas??"


Indeed, but it cant be touched for fear of offending peoples beliefs, can it?
In my opinion,and I'm being totally honest it's very difficult to respond to an atheist on a subject of Angels,Demons and the Spirit World without it turning into a competition.

And over the years Ive found it completely impossible to debate anything with a religious person as they have answers for everything.
Fear not, I shall never enter the hallowed halls of this particular thread again. I reserve the right however, to start a thread about misinterpretation of Biblical scripts writings etc etc .
I have become that which I always despised and feared........Old !

My greatest wish, would be to own my own scrapyard.
User avatar
Chorlton
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:02 pm


Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ScaRZ » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:26 pm

Chorlton...My post was not directed at you and I don't want you leaving the thread. I was letting everyone know where I stand and that's it. You let me know where you stand and that's fine with me.
I certainly don't have the answers to everything and I don't consider myself a religious person either. If I took your post wrong then I apologise.

Maybe I just have a problem understanding British humor.
Image
User avatar
ScaRZ
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ScaRZ » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:20 pm

David Flynn - The Giant's Geoglyphs of Tiahuanaco
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/20 ... 080622.php

David Flynn author of "Cydonia: The Secret Chronicles of Mars" and "The Temple At The Center Of Time" joins us to discuss his most recent discovery: The Geoglyphs of Tiahuanaco. We begin to discuss how he made his discovery and connect this with the Giants, the Nephilim, The Watchers, the flood, cataclysms and megaliths. Topics discussed: Newton, Lake Titicaca, the Bolivian Altiplano, The Age of the Geoglyphs, Arthur Posnansky, Puma Punko, Viracocha and the Legend of a Second Moon. Is there a message carved into the landscape? We also discuss Theurgy, Baalbek, Terrence McKenna, Singularity, Time, the importance of Dates, Latitudes, Longitudes, Placing, Place Names and much more. In our members section we'll connect this first segment with David's theory on the Cosmic Clock or the Doomsday Clock. We discuss numbers, dates, measurements, 33, 60, 360, 2012 and much more.

Download http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/20 ... dflynn.mp3
Image
User avatar
ScaRZ
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ScaRZ » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:43 pm

Angels or Demons? Todd Bentley and "The Beautiful Side of Evil"

By Berit Kjos
http://www.raidersnewsnetwork.com/full.php?news=17252

"...I went into a trance-like state and I saw, for the third time over the course of a few years, the angel of finance.... In that trance I experienced one of heaven’s realities and then that experience became a reality here on earth.... I found myself in a treasure room in heaven. The only item in this room was gold coins, and I began stuffing those coins into my pockets until they were falling out."[1] Todd Bentley

"...my spirit guides, Jesus and Mamacita, were with me, teaching me to overcome the lower spiritual entities. Now, during the many hours spent in meditation waves of light and peace would flow over me...."[2,p.85] Johanna Michaelsen, The Beautiful Side of Evil

"...false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. But take heed...." Mark 13:22-23

--------

What's driving Todd Bentley? Why do thousands of people flock to his revival meetings?

Some reasons are obvious. Many seek healing, financial success, spiritual experiences, prophetic knowledge and sensual entertainment. After all, Bentley puts on quite a show! Known for his heavenly visions, angelic "partners," mystical tattoos, and irreverent "teaching," he makes them laugh. One of his many Youtube performances includes this outrageous dialogue with an unbiblical "God":

"The woman was standing in the back of the room when the faith of God hit the meeting, and her tumor exploded out of her right leg, slid down her leg onto the floor! ... [God] said, '...I want you to grab that lady's crippled legs and bang them up-and-down on the platform like a baseball bat.' [loud laughter] I walked up and I grabbed her legs, and I started going, BAM! BAM! ...banging them.... She got healed!...

"And there is this older lady worshipping right in front of the platform. And the Holy Spirit spoke to me; the gift of faith came on me. He said, 'Kick her in the face with your biker-boot.' ... I went like this [kicks and shouts] BAM! And just as my boot made contact with her nose, she fell under the power of God."[3] [more laughter]

"You will know them by their fruit," said Jesus. (Mt 7:16) But the genuine "fruit of the Spirit" (God's love, goodness, gentleness...) was missing from this brutal show. This warning fits our times:

"An astonishing and horrible thing has been committed in the land:
The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule by their own power;
And My people love to have it so. But what will you do in the end?" Jer 5:30-31

Counterfeit angels and demonic visions

Bentley is no stranger to demonic forces. "...twenty-five demons were cast out of me," he said in one of the many videos that document his teachings, "...and when I first got saved the demonic started showing up unlike anything that I had seen even before I became a Christian.... I came out of everything involved with the demonic especially in the whole world of music and satanic music...."[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtSK9TyduR4]

But the supernatural realm remained central to his ministry, and during one of his "heavenly" visions, Bentley met a dazzling "angel" named Emma. The discredited "prophet" Bob Jones had told him that Emma had actually started "the whole prophetic movement in Kansas City in the 1980s." Bentley described their first encounter in his article "Angelic Hosts."

"In the middle of the service... in walks Emma. As I stared at the angel with open eyes, the Lord said, 'Here's Emma.' I'm not kidding. She floated a couple of inches off the floor... emitting brilliant light and colors. Emma carried these bags and began pulling gold out of them. Then, as she walked up and down the aisles of the church, she began putting gold dust on people.

"'God, what is happening?' I asked. The Lord answered: 'She is releasing the gold, which is both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that I am bringing into this church.'"[4]

The "God" behind these two beings is not our God! But Bentley's visions are enticing -- almost irresistible to some. As he wrote in a Personal Message on June 11,

"Thousands of leaders and pastors have received impartation. And the fire is spreading throughout the GLOBE! ... This anointing is very contagious and hundreds of churches and ministries are now hosting overflow rooms..."

Yes, and the Bible warned us it would happen:

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

The Beautiful Side of Evil

Back in the eighties I read The Beautiful Side of Evil by Johanna Michaelsen. For many years she was caught up in the occult, yet she believed that the "angels" who reached out to her were servants of God, not Satan. One of those "angels" sounds strangely similar to Bentley's "floating" angel, Emma:

"[She was] beautiful with flowing hair and robes of shimmering dark blue spangled with tiny stars.... She took me by the shoulders and gently kissed me on the forehead.... 'Welcome, my child,' she said. Then she turned and floated back through the wall as she had come. I have never experienced such joy, such light and peace, such unspeakable ecstasy. I was on the right path at last."[2,p.83]

No, she was tricked! Masquerading as an "angel of light," Satan used her feel-good experiences to deepen the deception. Through those painful years, Johanna's "fellowship" with demons brought her indescribable depression and despair. The enchanting moments of light were fleeting, while fear and confusion darkened her days. She would continue to suffer under that cruel master until God set her free. But since that time, God has used her testimony as a much-needed warning. It calls His people to--

"Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." Eph 5:8-11

Exposing the darkness can be costly. Church leaders who seek unity, popularity and unbounded fellowship are quick to label us intolerant and judgmental. But the cost is nothing compared to the genuine joy of serving our Lord!

Mesmerizing the masses

To alter her consciousness and connect with these entities, Johanna used meditation, visualization, concentration -- and the repetitive beat of a metronome. Bentley's tools are different but just as effective. Like tribal shamans (and like his own former world of "satanic music"), he uses loud rhythmic sounds (drums, etc.), then adds repetitious words and hypnotic music. Pastor Gary Osborne described it in his article, Bentley's "Revival" in Lakeland, Florida:

"The phrase 'stir yourselves up' was used repeatedly.... A woman led in prayer for the service and ... told the people to 'roar like a lion!' ... People everywhere shouted at the top of their lungs.... This same lady was jerking and twitching.... There was also much talk of 'birthing' and 'signs and wonders.'... People were swaying and dancing.... There was a very sensual spirit... People seemed to be in a trance all around me. If the worship leader said, 'raise your hands' everyone did so immediately. If he said, 'drop to your knees' they did.... The music had the people mesmerized....

"At about 8:30 PM... the music leader says, 'I’m feeling drunk.' He then tells the people to say to God, 'Intoxicate me, Lord.... Now the people are getting truly wild and the leader says, 'Scream!!!' and the people let out a yell.... Finally the worship leader falls to the floor himself...."[5]

This manipulative process started up again the next evening. Finally, with the crowd thoroughly conditioned to "break out of the box" of Biblical order (1 Cor 14:40), Bentley took control. Wearing a t-shirt with the words, "Jesus Gave Me My Tattoos," he announced the presence of "great authority" in the building. "I speak creation," he declared. "I speak new hearts, new livers into existence tonight....'”[5]

Doesn't he know God's view of such arrogance? Has he no fear of His judgments on those who serve the purpose of the master deceiver?

"For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven... I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit." Isaiah 14:13-15

Signs, wonders and mystical healings

"The glory of God is intense," wrote Bentley in a "Personal Message" on May 20. "...miracles continue - tumors disappearing nightly, cancers and deaf ears being healed. It has been reported that more than 55 people in wheelchairs are receiving their healing. Another remarkable turn of events - 13 reported resurrections!"

He claims that a male "angel" named "Healing Revival"[6] worked with him in many past healings: When he comes," said Bentley, "I get... the ability to diagnose people's sicknesses with my left hand.... I get very accurate details from God.... And whenever this angel shows up the miracles go off the charts."[4]

Four angels supposedly operated on him during one of his heavenly visions. He saw "a Pillar of fire" rise up through the roof of a church. When "God" told him to "get into the Pillar," he complied -- and landed on an operating table in heaven. The angels tied him down and began surgery:

"[T]hey pick this thing up... and they stuck it in me right here on my neck and it didn’t hurt.... they went right down to my lowards and all of a sudden ... everything inside of me popped out onto the table, my heart, my liver -- like everything.... . [T]he angels start taking these white boxes… and they start stuffing these things inside of me... and I heard the verse 'I desire truth in the inward parts.'”[7]

Bentley's reference to Psalm 51:6 illustrates his blatant Scripture twisting -- a timeless demonic tool. And his "surgery" reminds me of the mystical reports about "alien abductions."

It's also similar to Johanna's experiences with painless operations in Mexico. Both claim to have seen countless supernatural healings that clashed with all medical knowledge. But Bentley's "heavenly" experience (while in a trance) occurred only in a psychic realm, while Johanna assisted in numerous operations where patients actually bled. A few incredulous doctors observed this bizarre process and validated the results.

We shouldn't be surprised. Long ago, missionaries to distant tribal cultures described both the source and the effect of and shamanic magic. It's not a new phenomenon!

Johanna would assist Hermanito, a demonic spirit that "possessed" a Mexican woman named Pachita and used her body to operate on his patients. Like Bentley's six angels, he often replaced something from the patient's body with special objects.

A former army officer with an inoperable brain tumor came seeking relief from blinding headaches. As his operation began, Hermanito ordered Johanna to hand him the knife: She described the brutal action:

"In a single, violent motion he plunged it into Perry’s skull. The man on the table gasped. 'Do you feel pain, Perry?' I asked him anxiously. 'Oh, no,' he replied with a faint smile, 'but I can feel something moving inside my head—it’s so strange!' he laughed nervously.... Several days after the operation, I called him to see how he was doing. He told me his headaches were completely gone...."[2,p.126-127]

To heal David, a young man with terminal cancer, Hermanito called for more concentrated prayer -- using words that blended the Scriptures with occult ideas:

"Take a glass of pure water. Go out to the balcony, raise it high in your right hands and say, ‘May the most precious blood of our Lord Jesus Christ which, when only represented in Egypt brought freedom to the Israelites by the strong arm of God, free us and favor us against all evil.’... Sun and Earth, Moon and Stars... Mosses, Reptiles.... I ask of you this day the health of this patient.'

“'Form a circle around him.... Hold hands and pray....' He raised the scissors in prayer for a long moment, then plunged them into David’s side. He cut for a few moments, then asked 'Do you feel pain...?' David didn’t answer.... Hermanito’s breath drew in sharply.... 'Roll up your sleeve. We must perform a transfusion. Hurry! The rest of you pray!” he ordered.... Suddenly, David took a deep breath and opened his eyes....

"David had died on the table that night. The force behind Hermanito had brought him back..."[2,p.118-119]

But all was not well in this psychic realm. David died less than four months later. And many other healings were only temporary."[2,p.134] Christians who sought help through demonic forces suffered more and were less likely to be "healed." Satan has only hatred for his deluded victims -- especially those who actually belong to the true God. [See From torment to triumph]

God's Victory in this Spiritual War

"...many of our churches are in serious danger of occult contamination," wrote Johanna.[2,p.183] She knew how easily even Christians could trade God's truth for counterfeit promises. After all, she didn't stray into darkness because she loved evil -- but because evil looked so good! Her testimony is a wake-up call to churches everywhere:

"That first week in college, when the gospel was shared with me, I welcomed it with open arms. I confessed my sins before God and asked Jesus to enter my life as my Lord and Savior. I know, on the basis of God’s word, that I was born again, and I received in my spirit the assurance of my salvation. I gave myself to Him with my whole heart.

"But I did not understand the importance of carefully, systematically studying His Word. I had no real understanding of what I believed or why I believed it.’ And so, in time, I began to build my relationship with God based on my experience. My experience told me the healings and miracles I witnessed at Pachita’s were of God. My feelings assured me the work there was holy, for the name of Jesus was used and there was a crucifix on the altar, and demons were 'cast out.'”

"Soon my 'logic' told me the Bible was too narrow.... Ultimately, I came to believe Jesus was a way to God — but not the Way, the Truth, the Life. Gently, a step at a time, I fell away from the faith, unwittingly 'paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.' (I Timothy 4:1).... Ultimately, because I was a child of God, because I wanted more than anything else to know the Truth, He delivered me."[2,p.181-182]

I thank God for His mercy and saving grace that reaches out to all who will hear and heed His Word. As the spiritual war intensifies, may we be ready to hear His call, turn around (repent), resist the deceiver, and follow our wonderful Shepherd.

"Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." Ephesians 6:10-12
Image
User avatar
ScaRZ
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ScaRZ » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:07 pm

Poll probes Americans' belief in UFOs, life on other planets
http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/34758

Most Americans say it is very likely or somewhat likely that humans are not alone in the universe and that intelligent life exists on other planets.

Only a third of adults, however, believe it's either very likely or somewhat likely that intelligent aliens from space have visited our planet, according to a survey of 1,003 adults conducted by Scripps Howard News Service and Ohio University.

The poll revealed that one in every 12 Americans has seen a mysterious object in the sky that might have been a visitor from another world, while nearly one in every five personally knows someone who has seen an unidentified flying object.

America's fascination with UFO sightings has been robust, dating at least back to 1947 with the discovery of unusual objects near Roswell, N.M., that many claimed were the remnants of an extraterrestrial craft that crashed.

Among the ranks who have seen something strange in the sky are former President Jimmy Carter, the late Beatle John Lennon and the late comedian Jackie Gleason.

One of the largest mass sightings on record -- the so-called "Phoenix Lights" that hovered for several hours over two or three Southwestern states on March 13, 1997 -- was even seen by then-Arizona Gov. Fife Symington. The governor at first made jokes about the incident, but later apologized for making light of something that thousands of people saw.

"The universe is a big place," Symington told reporters last year. "We're conceited to think we're alone."

At least one of the participants in the poll saw the strange, slowly floating lights over Phoenix.

"Maybe it was a military thing; I don't know," said Fran Chodacki, 62, of Page, Ariz. "Everything is mysterious in this world. It's a possibility."

She is among the 56 percent of adults in the poll who believe it is very likely or somewhat likely that intelligent life exists on other worlds. The survey found that 35 percent said extraterrestrials are unlikely and 9 percent are uncertain.

Men, young adults and college-educated Americans are more likely than most to believe that humans are not alone in the universe.

The survey found some patterns in the kinds of people who have reported having seen UFOs.

Men are almost twice as likely to have seen something peculiar in the sky than are women. Older Americans are much more likely than younger people to have seen something, as are residents of rural areas or suburbs rather than those living in major cities. People living in Western states are three times more likely to have seen a UFO than are residents of the Northeast, Midwest or South.

UFO experts agree that these trends all make sense. Men are more likely than women to be outdoors on a dark night. Older Americans have had more opportunities simply by virtue of a longer life to see something unusual in the sky.

It is also logical, they say, for people in Western states to have seen more UFOs than people in other regions. Most of the nation's largest and most expensive observatories are located in the West, which provides optimal views of the sky.

"These people have had more opportunities than others to see things in a darkened sky. That makes sense," said Mark Rodeghier, director of the Chicago-based J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies.

Peter Davenport, director of the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Wash., agreed.

"Of course, we get lots of reports from major cities," Davenport said. "But it could be that people in rural areas have a better view of the sky. People in cities are blinded by all of the bright lights."

But the experts were quite surprised by other trends found among the UFO witnesses.

People who have attended church recently and who identify themselves as born-again Evangelical Protestants are much less likely to have seen UFOs or to believe in the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence than people with little or no involvement with organized religion.

People with strong political and ideological convictions -- self-identified "strong Republicans" and "very conservative" people as well as "strong Democrats" and "very liberal" persons -- are much less likely to report having seen a UFO than are politically moderate persons.

"There are just so many variables when addressing this issue," said Davenport. "But the religious trend is very, very interesting. Maybe you are more open to having seen things outside your experience if you don't have very tightly held religious beliefs."

But why are people with strong political beliefs less likely to see UFOs?

"They are more attuned to the establishment," said Rodeghier. "People who are in the establishment are more likely to have distain for the whole UFO issue. That's something those of us in the field of UFO study have seen over and over again. But people who are independent are more open to the issue."

The survey was conducted by telephone at Ohio University's Scripps Survey Research Center from May 11-28. The poll was funded through a grant from the Scripps Howard Foundation.

The overall survey has a margin of error of about 3 percentage points.


(Thomas Hargrove is a reporter for Scripps Howard News Service. Guido H. Stempel III is a professor emeritus at Ohio University's Scripps School of Journalism. Scripps Howard reporter Daniel Collins contributed to this story.)


(E-mail Thomas Hargrove at hargrovet(at)shns.com. Distributed by Scripps Howard News Service, http://www.scrippsnews.com)
Image
User avatar
ScaRZ
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ryguy » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:47 pm

Two quotes I love in this passage, for very personal reasons.

"Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." Eph 5:8-11

The above defines why I focus as much as I do on paranormal phenomenon in research, and why I believe more "true" faithful of God should do the same.

1. Finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
2. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Notice - to all those Christians who scorn anyone who "gets involved" with the topic of the paranormal. It does not suggest we "avoid them"...Ephesians recommends we "expose them." Those who use the bible to warn other Christians away from this subject matter conveniently overlook important passages like this. Jesus himself was said to have "cast out demons" with his own hands. He didn't go running in the other direction at the sight of a demonic presence.

This one is also an inspiration:

"Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." Ephesians 6:10-12[/quote]

Preparing is obviously an important first step, but too many forget the second, very, very inspiring statement:

"...and having done all, to stand."

Making that stand is one of the most difficult things to do, especially in an area where the majority of folks are not of the same beliefs - most follow various occult practices instead. We are a minority in these dark places. But that is simply the way of the world...Christians flock to the churches every Sunday and ignore the war going on outside those doors throughout the world. Those who oppose these deceptive forces face not only those forces, but also the majority who believe in the deception of those forces. This is the difficult battlefield we face, virtually alone.

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ScaRZ » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:22 pm

Great post above Ryan, I love the way you used scripture to make your point. I believe as yourself that we are to run them out from the cloak of darkness they hide behind into the light and the light will expose them. If we as believers only set back and do nothing then we are a very poor fruit.

Some try to please everyone and that's not me. I stand firm in my beliefs and don't believe in only a feel good message. We can't satisfy everyone,if we do we lose the truth.

"Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." Eph 5:8-11

The above verses you quoted Ryan reminds me of the rotten apple in a basket full of good apples. Every good apple that comes in contact with the rotten apple will soon be stained and rot. All the apples in the basket are in fact touching one another and will soon be destroyed by the beginning works of "One Bad Apple". The rotten apple must be exposed by the light in order to see it's true nature and remove it from the good apples. If the rotten apple remains hidden in darkness among the good apples they all will find corruption.

The Shining One knows this only too well and is a master at being a thief in the night. This is the reason we are to remain awake (Not Sleeping) in our minds and not let he or his (Messengers) of a false light slip in an open door or window and slide in next to us.

They will corrupt,they will deceive,by the nature of a false doctrine. Soon your Temple,your House would slide off strong foundation and crumble in pieces.
Image
User avatar
ScaRZ
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ScaRZ » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:56 pm

ryguy wrote:Christians flock to the churches every Sunday and ignore the war going on outside those doors throughout the world.
-Ry


I look at a "Minister or Pastor" who doesn't teach and preach the complete Word of God to his flock as a Shepard that doesn't tend his flock. He is either a tool of the wolf or he is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Any way you care to look at it the "Wolf" will devourer the flock if a good Shepard is not looking over the flock.

I see and hear so many messages from these bad Shepard's that only teach or preach a feel good message. They no longer teach or preach "The Wrath of God", "The Book of Revelation" or "Prophecy" in general of Old and New Testament Prophets.

It's like going to your Doctor and getting a physical and after all the test are completed he finds out you have cancer. But the Doctor never delivers bad news to any of his patents,because he wants everyone to leave his office feeling good. So he keeps the bad news to himself and tells every patent only the good news. The Doctor says "Your heart rate is great,the blood pressure is perfect and that cholesterol level is right where it needs to be.

The Doctor is a Bad Shepard of his flock of patents and that cancer is allowed to corrupt and destroy you with only his feel good message.
Image
User avatar
ScaRZ
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:55 pm

ryguy wrote:Making that stand is one of the most difficult things to do, especially in an area where the majority of folks are not of the same beliefs - most follow various occult practices instead. We are a minority in these dark places.


I consistently object to the insinuation that "occult" must equal "darkness", from which you imply "evil". You seem to have come to a conclusion that all occult knowledge must be evil. Is that true, Ryan? Or is it possible you came to such a conclusion based only on the "occult" practices you have studied, and not a more well-rounded study that might include the "good" that some occult practices provide? For example, are you aware of the real reason for why most occult knowledge is not simply "given out"? (Hint: It has to do with the fact that experiencing something first-hand is eminently more powerful than a sales pitch from someone else.)

This is another thing that bugs me about the Catholic Church. This Church seems to be the leader in branding "occult"="evil". And yet, is it not true that there actually ARE occult aspects to Catholocism? Granted they may be "dressed-up" so well that the average "believer" does not recognize them as such... but there IS "hidden knowledge" that is part of even Catholicism.

Ray
The Universe is an Integrated System. Operational, Functional, and Physical.
User avatar
You Can Call Me Ray
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ryguy » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:49 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:
This is another thing that bugs me about the Catholic Church. This Church seems to be the leader in branding "occult"="evil". And yet, is it not true that there actually ARE occult aspects to Catholocism? Granted they may be "dressed-up" so well that the average "believer" does not recognize them as such... but there IS "hidden knowledge" that is part of even Catholicism.

Ray


It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church - and I'd appreciate it if you'd keep my beliefs and what the Church teaches separate. Just because I have said to you that I believe some of what the Church teaches, I never said I believe it exclusively - my personal beliefs are drawn from a number of different "belief-systems", as I'm sure yours is. Just, if you don't mind, quit the pigeon-holing.

And finally to answer your core question - the reason for my statement above is from observations and data-gathering from paranormal research groups around the world and an apparent pattern they find between negative poltergeist activity/etc and members of families who've been practicing the occult.

I admit it's a connection I believe is strong (occult = bad energies), but I also admit that with just about everything else in this subject area, any of those connections are very difficult to prove. But I am, as I'm sure you are, continuing to collect data and trying to test and either solidify or cancel those hypothesis. But yes, personally from what I've gathered so far, general occult practices are often at the core of why families are plagued by experiences of negative poltergeist (as they call it anyway) phenomenon.

This is a subject I'm hoping to write about in more detail, with evidence and sources cited, in a longer article, very soon.

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby Shawnna » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:39 pm

Eliminating what we have been 'taught' about the Spiritual world within the context of our families, our society and yes, even our governments, in order to truly find meaning in our own unique Spiritual Life is a most difficult challenge.

Within this thread are so many belief systems that seem founded in one stereotype or another it makes me dizzy.

:(
"The only thing we found that makes the emptiness bearable is................... each other."

From the movie "Contact"

Shawnna's Reality
User avatar
Shawnna
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1243
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:30 pm

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:12 pm

Ryan,
ryguy wrote:It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church - and I'd appreciate it if you'd keep my beliefs and what the Church teaches separate. Just because I have said to you that I believe some of what the Church teaches, I never said I believe it exclusively - my personal beliefs are drawn from a number of different "belief-systems", as I'm sure yours is. Just, if you don't mind, quit the pigeon-holing.


I understand, my bad, and I agree... as long as you are also willing to agree that statements like "(occult = bad energies)," are also an act of pigeon-holing?

And finally to answer your core question - the reason for my statement above is from observations and data-gathering from paranormal research groups around the world and an apparent pattern they find between negative poltergeist activity/etc and members of families who've been practicing the occult.


Perhaps I need a definition of "practicing the occult". Indeed, it is the criteria for branding some ritual as "occult" that perhaps needs a better definition. Even (most) "occult traditions" have clear distinctions between "the light arts" and "the dark arts". Heck, it is the entire encapsulation of an "occult tradition" by Lucas when his Jedi Knights explain "The Dark Side of the Force" as evil! The nod here goes to the understanding that ANY "technology" (i.e. ritual of matter, motion, and time) can be used for either "good" (light) purposes or "evil" (dark) purposes. The distinction is not in the technology or its application, per se, but in the intention one has behind the use of the technology.

If I practice a meditation tradition (ritual) at home, that is derived from (but different than) saying the rosary in a church (for one example), does that make it "occult"? Is it "occult" only because I do not follow the tradition exactly as stated by (___fill-in any dogmatic religion here___)? Sometimes (most of the time), I think that churches impose religion in a manner that would say "yes" to this question.

I admit it's a connection I believe is strong (occult = bad energies), but I also admit that with just about everything else in this subject area, any of those connections are very difficult to prove. But I am, as I'm sure you are, continuing to collect data and trying to test and either solidify or cancel those hypothesis. But yes, personally from what I've gathered so far, general occult practices are often at the core of why families are plagued by experiences of negative poltergeist (as they call it anyway) phenomenon.


That's fine by me. And yes, continuing to collect data is certainly the way to go. For I have accumulated my own data by taking ritual traditions, both from my Catholic upbringing and my "ocult" studies, and modifying them (and in some case blending them) to best suit my needs and my intentions. Indeed, visualizations of an end-state that I wish to make manifest in my life is a powerful way to focus on achieving a goal. Such rituals come in many different flavors, and I would bet that any of these rituals could be employed for "bad intentions" as easily as they could be employed for "good intentions".

This is a subject I'm hoping to write about in more detail, with evidence and sources cited, in a longer article, very soon.


Cool! I am sure I will enjoy the read, as I enjoy all your well-thought-out writing, Ryan. Now I had better stop avoiding the chore of mowing my front lawn... Better git-r-done! :D

Ray
The Universe is an Integrated System. Operational, Functional, and Physical.
User avatar
You Can Call Me Ray
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ryguy » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:01 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:If I practice a meditation tradition (ritual) at home, that is derived from (but different than) saying the rosary in a church (for one example), does that make it "occult"? Is it "occult" only because I do not follow the tradition exactly as stated by (___fill-in any dogmatic religion here___)? Sometimes (most of the time), I think that churches impose religion in a manner that would say "yes" to this question.


Cool :)

I guess we have more in common than I thought. I should have defined what I term the "occult" more clearly - when I use the word "occult", I'm referring to what you apparently call the "dark arts". I agree with you regarding meditation, I practice it myself too, and no, I don't term it "occult" in the way that I use the term.

You are right that using the strict definition of it - spirituality overall is actually "occult" (because anything that deals with the supernatural falls in that category). But what I'm referring to above is the category of spiritual practice that communicate with "entities" for ultimately negative purposes - or sometimes seemingly "positive" purposes (as portrayed by deceptive forces) which ultimately result in negative and hurtful outcome.

Maybe, instead of the word "occult", we should be using the phrase "dark arts" as you suggest? I sort of like that term better...

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby ryguy » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:11 pm

Shawnna wrote:Eliminating what we have been 'taught' about the Spiritual world within the context of our families, our society and yes, even our governments, in order to truly find meaning in our own unique Spiritual Life is a most difficult challenge.

Within this thread are so many belief systems that seem founded in one stereotype or another it makes me dizzy.

:(


I've yet to meet a single person, including myself, who does not have a belief system based, at least in part, on some form of stereotype. However, the majority continue to believe that *they* are the one exception.

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Angels, Demons and the Spirit World

Postby Shawnna » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:44 am

Being conscious of the stereotypes influencing our beliefs is the first step in spiritual growth.


[Mod Edit: removed quote of entire previous post]
"The only thing we found that makes the emptiness bearable is................... each other."

From the movie "Contact"

Shawnna's Reality
User avatar
Shawnna
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1243
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:30 pm

PreviousNext

Google

Return to Spirituality and the Paranormal

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron