The thread for gnostics, advaitans (non-dualists), Etc.

A spiritual perspective on phenomenon

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The thread for gnostics, advaitans (non-dualists), Etc.

Postby MikeJamieson » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:55 pm

I am just "waking up" to this new forum. I see people introducing
subjects on various "spirituality" related threads.

So, here's one representing those who resonate with the
experiential, enlightenment, awakening traditions from all
over the world that basicly suggest that the "kingdom of
heaven" = non-dual, awakened awareness.

Many "traditions": Advaita, Buddhism, Sufism, Gnostic Christianity
and Judaism, Dzogchen, etc.

The question of the "paranormal" arises of course. And, is "no big
deal" (and not at the "center" of interest for these traditions).
MikeJamieson
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Postby caryn » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:37 am

Good point, and I was waiting for someone to bring that up…Duality.

Duality is generally a poorly understood concept within the western hemisphere imho.

Any system, whether biological, mechanical, whatever, is comprised of a number of parts. The interplay and friction between those parts delivers the system out of a state of inertia, creating movement, functionality and coherence. The whole becomes more than just the sum total of its parts, because it also gives rise to the phenomenal.

Common notions of duality are a simplistic take on a concept that holds far more meaning when viewed within the correct context. Many have trouble seeing beyond the dichotomy, thereby missing the yin-yang – syntheses.

I’m pretty sure that Ray will expound further on this in his thread.
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duality as a way

Postby MikeJamieson » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:27 pm

Hi Caryn, Sorry I have just a few library minutes here, but I guess I want to identify two particular dualistic philosophical examples:

Psychology: the brain and mind are seen as independent. (Many variations on these theme.)

Spiritual: in the Yoga system of Patanjali, spirit basicly tries to "escape" the bondage of the "material world". (Some gnostic schools also oriented this way.....others not.)

For a radical non-dualism, I suggest folks take a look at the conversations that were recorded with Ramana Maharshi!

My view: the Kingdom of Heaven that Yeshua ben Joseph was talking about in the Gospel of Thomas = awakened non-dual awareness.
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Postby MikeJamieson » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:28 pm

Note the emphasis in Patanjali's Yoga Sutras on the development of paranormal capacities ("siddhis").
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Re: duality as a way

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:24 pm

Mike & Caryn,
MikeJamieson wrote:My view: the Kingdom of Heaven that Yeshua ben Joseph was talking about in the Gospel of Thomas = awakened non-dual awareness.


From a gnostic perspective, as well as from a system synthesis perspective, I agree. This is what I always try to describe scientifically as Physical (material) + Functional (motion) = Operational. The nature of our human existence is for our cognitive operator (brain/mind) to separate FORM from FUNCTION (noun from verb, Matter from Space-Time). But that is, at best, an approximation. Scientifically, it is the reason there are errors in all measurements (because we insist that they are separate phenomena, rather than just we PERCEIVE them as separate).

Many have trouble seeing beyond the dichotomy, thereby missing the yin-yang – syntheses.


Indeed many people do. And it is precisely the synthesis of FORM with FUNCTION that results in the operational whole. The "non-dual" existence where all Matter and Motion are One. For us (in our conscious state) this cannot "exist" anywhere but beyond our conscious minds (and even to some extent beyond our subconscious minds) because we are so pre-disposed to segregating matter from motion.

This is also PRECISELY why certain scientific measures are not directly quantifiable by our perception. Examples are momentum and energy. These are integrated metrics of mass, space, and time. So you cannot directly "point to" an instance of momentum or energy. The best we can do is show the EFFECTS of them (a body in motion EXPRESSES energy).

It is also my belief that the "second coming" that Yeshua spoke of is a result of a networking activity which literally gives birth to a new level of awareness. In other words the "second coming" has NOTHING to do with an individual... that was Yeshua's mission and he was the last of that kind. Rather, the second coming can only occur when lots of individual subsystems (people) have a means to network with sufficient bandwidth (i.e. the internet) such that a new state may emerge from the networked whole. So we do not need to "look around for the messiah". Rather, all who wish for the messiah to return will play an active part in that materialization. It's a "network" thing! ;)

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Postby MikeJamieson » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:32 am

Very interesting, Ray.

Especially the role of the internet.

You use a different lingo than I am usually used to.
But, I get your drift pretty easily.
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