An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 7:03 pm

Wow! That was fast!
Excellent observations and suggestions Ryan. And same goes for those comments Chorlton made too. I knew this would be the best place to come to get some intelligent feedback on the experimental design of that study.

The biggest problem I'm seeing with this experiment is the use of something called the EVPmaker with allophones mainly because we EVP recorders never use that software because the EVP results are more difficult to understand. And if the EVP results are only Class C at best, this allows for a wide range of interpretation... no wonder they are not going to publish those EVP recorded by each experimenter who a project manager claims got the right answer because it's my bet that even those of us who are very good and have years of practice in listening and interpreting EVP may not even hear the correct answer being said in those kind of EVP recorded using the EVPmaker with allophones if they in fact are being said at all. But once again, any EVP recorded using that method will be so fuzzy and difficult to understand, a Project Manager can claim that they are hearing something that's not even there. Plus, they are saying that the answer needs to be quote unquote "relevant" to the target. hmmm -- relevant? We won't know how they define that word until a year from now after tell us what the targets were. But they are not even going to tell us those answers they got each month that they say are the correct answers. So if the target was a teddy bear and a project manager rules that an EVP that says horse is relevant enough to be considered correct... lol, we will never know that information because they are not going to provide it for us.


All decisions are left only to the Project Manager as to if the EVP sent to them has the correct answer in it...and in addition to what I said above, because that Project Manager is a member of that organization would they be more apt to have those participants in the study who are also members of that org. listed as those who got the correct answer than those participants who are not members of that org?

This organization likes to pride itself as being one with the best EVP recorders in the world as members and in fact they do have some good ones. Based on the design of this experiment, I'm seeing it as a way for them to promote those members knack for getting correct answers via evp via their bragging list. To me, this is really what this study is all about! I have no idea though if anyone of them can get the correct answer via evp for an object in someone elses home... (another member's home btw and that too is another flaw in this set up). I've never seen any of them do that. In fact, I'm the only one I know who has done demos for getting answers via EVP from questions I myself do not know the answer to but the person who asked me to ask my spirit controls does know the answer to where my controls answer that question correctly. I've been curious why no members from that org do any demos in public forums to do things via evp they claim they can do)
Because the EVP recorded in this study will be even difficult for long time recorders to tell what's being said in them.
And because they will all be Class C EVP at best, thanks to using the Evpmaker with allophones, the Project Manager who knows what the target is, might be claiming that an EVP is saying the correct answer when in fact it's not saying anything clear enough to really tell what it is saying. The fact that they are not going to post those EVP that they say had the correct answer in them for others outside of the study to hear too to determine if the answer is really being said or not, speaks for itself!

It is also interesting that they will be listing in the Bragging Rights section of that page the names of those who got the correct answer and they will be doing that each month.
But, they will be waiting till the end of the experiment, which is a year from now, to tell us what those targets were each month.

So not only are they not providing us with each EVP recording that supposedly has the correct answer in it, they also will not be telling any of us who will be logging in on those pages for updates on the study, what each target was for each month. And not only that, they will not be telling the participants of this study what those targets were until a year from now too.
All the participant will know is if they got the correct answer and they will find that out each month if their name is on the bragging list.
Last edited by fernergy on Fri May 21, 2010 8:50 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby Chorlton » Fri May 21, 2010 7:12 pm

You could always try Bingo at the RSL club ? :D :D
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 8:15 pm

Chorlton wrote:You could always try Bingo at the RSL club ? :D :D


Chorlton,
I'm not going to try bingo but I will try you. :twisted:

Clear your desk and put an object on it.
Then type out what that object is in MS Word and save that file and then upload it to rapidshare. Rapidshare will then give you a link to that file but hold off on sending it to me until I record some EVP to see if I can get them to tell me what the target is.
Then take a photo of that object via your webcam and then upload that photo to rapidshare too. Rapidshare's timestamp will show the day and time you saved those files.
Send the rapidshare link for that file or files to Ryan and then Ryan can notify me here that that link or links have been sent to him from you and that that one file states what the object is and the other file is a photo of the object you put on top of your desk.

The name of the object should be something easy enough for me to hear and understand via EVP should they tell me what it is.


Once you do all of that I will conduct a recording session and tell you the answer that I got for that.

I've never tried anything like this out but my spirit contacts do tell me what I'm holding in my hand, for example, if I ask them to tell me. They also will tell me things like which room of my house I put an object for them to tell me where I put it. They always give me the correct answers for those types of questions. But I've never tried it with anyone via computer like I'm doing now. Where instead of me asking them what I have on my desk, I am instead asking what object so and so has placed on his desk so that they could tell me what the object is.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby ryguy » Fri May 21, 2010 8:55 pm

fernergy wrote:The biggest problem I'm seeing with this experiment is the use of something called the EVPmaker with allophones mainly because we EVP recorders never use that software because the EVP results are more difficult to understand.


I agree completely.

But once again, any EVP recorded using that method will be so fuzzy and difficult to understand, a Project Manager can claim that they are hearing something that's not even there. Plus, they are saying that the answer needs to be quote unquote "relevant" to the target. hmmm -- relevant?


Exactly...unless the recordings themselves are made public or at least accessible to a neutral third party for analysis, it's much too easy to "fudge" results in the way you describe.

So if the target was a teddy bear and a project manager rules that an EVP that says horse is relevant enough to be considered correct... lol, we will never know that information because they are not going to provide it for us.


Exactly! In my mind that's a *huge* glaring flaw in the setup.

This organization likes to pride itself as being one with the best EVP recorders in the world as members. Based on the design of this experiment, I'm only seeing it as a way for them to promote and advertise their own members skills in getting correct answers via evp. To me, this is really what this study is all about!


Yup - I think you've hit the nail on the head.

All the participant will know is if they got the correct answer and they will find that out each month if their name is on the bragging list.

Well, once again... like I said, this study is nothing but a PR gimmick to promote those members of their org. who participate in it to show how good they are at naming targets via EVP when in fact due to the method being used, there's little reliability that any correct answers were received at all.


I like your review of the projects - you hit all of the points that are definitely major problems with the study and, honestly, if they keep it as is, the results can't really be considered scientific by any stretch of the imagination.

-Ryan
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby ryguy » Fri May 21, 2010 8:57 pm

fernergy wrote:
Chorlton wrote:You could always try Bingo at the RSL club ? :D :D

I've never tried anything like this out but my spirit contacts do tell me what I'm holding in my hand, for example, if I ask them to tell me. They also will tell me things like which room of my house I put an object for them to tell me where I put it. They always give me the correct answers for those types of questions. But I've never tried it with anyone via computer like I'm doing now. Where instead of me asking them what I have on my desk, I am instead asking what object so and so has placed on his desk so that they could tell me what the object is.


Chorlton - this would be a fun test...let's give it a shot and see what happens. Follow the instructions and email me when you're ready.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 9:08 pm

ryguy wrote:
fernergy wrote:
Chorlton wrote:You could always try Bingo at the RSL club ? :D :D

I've never tried anything like this out but my spirit contacts do tell me what I'm holding in my hand, for example, if I ask them to tell me. They also will tell me things like which room of my house I put an object for them to tell me where I put it. They always give me the correct answers for those types of questions. But I've never tried it with anyone via computer like I'm doing now. Where instead of me asking them what I have on my desk, I am instead asking what object so and so has placed on his desk so that they could tell me what the object is.


Chorlton - this would be a fun test...let's give it a shot and see what happens. Follow the instructions and email me when you're ready.


I think this should be fun too. I really do want to try something like this out.
Also thanks so much for your feedback on those issues I'm having with their study. If it's ok with you, I would like to inform those in that one forum I participate in what yours and Chorltons comments were on the design of Butler's current experiment. Just saying that I will be giving credit to both of you in my report on that design. Others in our community need to engage in conversation on study's like this done by what most consider to be the top EVP org. in the world.

Let me know via post here when Chorlton sends you those RAPIDSHARE links to those files. Then let the fun begin!
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby Chorlton » Sat May 22, 2010 12:26 pm

No Im not putting anything on Rapidshare. Whats the point of that. If you have contacts they will be able to see the object and report back to you.
What I will do is take a pic of something on an empty table then email it to Ryan (if he sends me his email addy.)
The email he receives will show the date and time he receives it and if I can work this new cam of mine out I'll get a date and timestamp on the pic.

I see no relevance in putting anything on Rapidhsare or anything else, if your 'contacts' work then the will see the object.

If agreeable I will do something in the next hour or so. Its 12.25 BST at the moment.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby Chorlton » Sat May 22, 2010 12:57 pm

There is an item on my living room table placed there at 1248 BST
It will remain there untill 6PM
Ive emailed Ryan a pic of it. about 2 mins ago
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Sat May 22, 2010 1:22 pm

Chorlton wrote:No Im not putting anything on Rapidshare. Whats the point of that. If you have contacts they will be able to see the object and report back to you.
What I will do is take a pic of something on an empty table then email it to Ryan (if he sends me his email addy.)
The email he receives will show the date and time he receives it and if I can work this new cam of mine out I'll get a date and timestamp on the pic.

I see no relevance in putting anything on Rapidhsare or anything else, if your 'contacts' work then the will see the object.

If agreeable I will do something in the next hour or so. Its 12.25 BST at the moment.


That's fine with me Chorlton. Just need to be able to see a timestamp of your original email with a photograph of the target/object sitting on a table with nothing else on it as an attachment which Ryan will show me after I report back on what my contacts are saying the object is.
Also, please tell me what room in your house the object is in that you placed on a table. And in addition to this, please tell me the country and city or region you reside in.
So when I start with this experiment, I will state my question as "Please tell me what the object was of a man who is using the nickname Chorlton of (town and city) in an online forum called Reality Uncovered that he put on a table in his (the room the table is in) for one of you to tell me via evp what that object was/is.

I'm ready when you are but before I conduct the actual experiment, I first have to make sure my contacts have identified who you are and your location. So I will first mention your name and then will state the country and city you live in. Then I will ask them if they have located you or not. Once they tell me that they zero'd in on you, I will then ask them a 'confirmation question' like, "can you tell me where I met Chorlton?" .. they should be answering that I met you in a computer forum or something 'relevant'.

I just need some kind of confirmation from them that they've located the same Chorlton that I'm asking them to locate.

So perk up and welcome them Chorlton ... this will help them to 'connect' to you. :D
Last edited by fernergy on Sat May 22, 2010 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Sat May 22, 2010 1:41 pm

Or better yet, after they tell me that they've located you... or give me some indication of that, I will ask them to tell me what color your hair is. Then I will post what I got on that here and you tell me if it's correct or not. If they can at least get that question right then this will give me some indication that they will be able to tell me what that object is.

One thing about this study that they did not mention was that all of the members of that org know Margaret, the person whose house the object/target is in. So because those participants have known her for many years now as she's one of the core members of that org., that spirit connection between the participant and the target holder is a lot stronger. But you are a complete stranger to me. So this is why I need to confirm that they've located the correct person before we conduct this experiment.

If they answer those easy confirmation questions then this will help me to determine that they've found the right person...you.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Sat May 22, 2010 1:53 pm

Chorlton,
I cannot begin this experiment until I have your location and the room in your house where you placed that object on a table that has nothing else on it.

And then I will need for you to confirm if the answer I got from them on the color of your hair is correct or not.

I will post that answer I got for that but will need you to post here if it's correct.

After I have this information I will be able to begin.
Last edited by fernergy on Sat May 22, 2010 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Sat May 22, 2010 1:59 pm

Oh, in addition to this, I don't begin this experiment until they've located you. This is my experiment and you agreed to participate in it .
You do not make up the rules... I do. If you don't like them then you do not have to participate and I will ask Ryan instead to place a target somewhere on a table with nothing on it in a room.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Sat May 22, 2010 2:06 pm

Chorlton wrote:There is an item on my living room table placed there at 1248 BST
It will remain there untill 6PM
Ive emailed Ryan a pic of it. about 2 mins ago



Lol, only until 6 PM??
No honey, you don't make up the rules ok?

I can see that you're actually afraid I'm going to get some correct answers here from my contacts.

You have one hour to give me the information I require to start this demo and if I do not get that information then the demo's off.. at least as far as your participation in it.
PS -- I also will need confirmation from Ryan that you've sent him an email with an attachment of a photo of the target sitting on a table in a room in your house before I begin.
Last edited by fernergy on Sat May 22, 2010 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby Chorlton » Sat May 22, 2010 2:10 pm

No you dont make the rules. There are no rules. If you have to have rules then your experiment is pointless.
Im not posting anything on rapidshare or anywhere it could be traced.
Im in Hampshire UK.
Thats as close as Im telling anyone. There are some who would pay money for my address !!

As I said, The object is there, and it will stay there untill 6PM. Ryan has a copy of the pic of the object
Take it or leave it.

By the way, Ive been nosing around in EVP, probably since before you were born. At the very least since before I first read The Ghost of 29 Megacycles. before then I was awakened to the idea in the late 60's by an old boy in Surrey who made his own radio equipment and had been receiving lost of weird sounds from it along with muffled voices.
Looking back now I think it was probably just random RF his stuff was picking up but some of it was spooky.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby Chorlton » Sat May 22, 2010 2:13 pm

fernergy wrote:
Chorlton wrote:There is an item on my living room table placed there at 1248 BST
It will remain there untill 6PM
Ive emailed Ryan a pic of it. about 2 mins ago



Lol, only until 6 PM??
No honey, you don't make up the rules ok?

I can see that you're actually afraid I'm going to get some correct answers here from my contacts.

You have one hour to give me the information I require to start this demo and if I do not get that information then the demo's off.. at least as far as your participation in it.


First, I'm not your Honey. Never will be.
Second, if you want my participation, YOU dont make the rules. Ive met too many fruitcakes, hoaxers and weirdos in the last 40 odd years who tried to set THEIR rules to suit THEM.
Ive told you, Im in Hampshire UK. The item will stay untill 6PM then we'll be eating on the table. If your ghoolie cant see it in over 5 hours then I'd chuck the whole thing in if I were you.
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