Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Aviary discussion and topics

Moderators: ryguy, chrLz, Zep Tepi

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby murnut » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:18 am

Access Denied wrote:
murnut wrote:Or because Gary is wise to the "methods"?

What "methods" to accomplish what exactly? Be specific.


How would I know?

Clearly I don't

But I refer to this quote from Gary's site



It was never our intention to inflict damage upon the Intelligence Community.

"It is even more important not to reveal methods as these potentially can be applied to multiple sources."

We were being 'lectured' by an unnamed Senior Intelligence Official about an investigation series we had titled "Exempt from Legal Recourse: Spies, Lies and Polygraph Tape."


http://www.starstreamresearch.com/truth ... uences.htm

Only one person really knows what he wants to accomplish.

Just not sure that one can take what is said on face value.

There can be any number of reasons, besides the obvious.

Or, it can be as it appears.
"The Conformers are hard to read. They are rocks."
User avatar
murnut
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:35 am


Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby Access Denied » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:02 am

murnut wrote:But I refer to this quote from Gary's site

Ah yes, one of Gary's favorite "methods"... quoting out of context to create drama and intrigue where in fact there is none.

murnut wrote:Only one person really knows what he wants to accomplish.

True, for all you know he could have both a professional and a personal interest.

murnut wrote:Just not sure that one can take what is said on face value.

Understandable, I would suggest however who do you trust more… those who tell you what you want to hear or those who don’t?

murnut wrote:There can be any number of reasons, besides the obvious.

What might the "obvious" be?

murnut wrote:Or, it can be as it appears.

How's that?
Men go and come but Earth abides.
User avatar
Access Denied
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:32 am
Location: [redacted]

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby ryguy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:18 pm

murnut wrote:
ryguy wrote:Why would CK tell Dan at the recent meeting that you can't be trusted?? Seems like a rather...odd...thing to say?


Maybe because CK doesn't want Dan talking to Gary?


lol...yeah...that would be like Ron not wanting me to talk to Steve. Dan and Gary have been tight forever.

Or because Gary is wise to the "methods"?


hahaha...yeah that's it. :roll:

Murnut, you never cease to amaze me.

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby murnut » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:06 pm

I am just speculating, clearly I don't have idea what motivation drives the man whose name we don't mention.

Are the motivations personal, or business?

When he has spoken to any of the involved (Dan, Gary, Ryan) parties, is it in an official capacity or not?

I doubt that anything happens by accident, his words always seem to be very carefully chosen.

Like his interaction with Smith, no way do I believe he had no idea Dan would post it.

Of course he knew
"The Conformers are hard to read. They are rocks."
User avatar
murnut
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:35 am

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:16 pm

Absolutely Mur, on that we can agree :)
.
Image
User avatar
Zep Tepi
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby ryguy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:18 pm

murnut wrote:I am just speculating, clearly I don't have idea what motivation drives the man whose name we don't mention.

Are the motivations personal, or business?


Usually it depends on the topic. I'm not about to guess on someone's motivation, but we do know he has been conversing with a multitude of UFO investigators for a very long time, not just us three. Anyone who considers themselves special for interacting with him is fooling themselves. Based on my own interactions, my personal opinion is that he has a very low tolerance for discussing UFOs, and prefers the topics of physics and fringe scientific research. The only time UFOlogy comes up is where those issues intersect with it. The only official contacts I've seen him make has been as part of a followup for researching particular fringe scientific claims, or investigating when some of those involved in the fringe science utilize Ufology for specific purposes.

I'm getting ahead of the RU releases though...I can hear Steve telling me to shut up. lol. Anyway - we'll be publishing more soon that should hopefully help.

When he has spoken to any of the involved (Dan, Gary, Ryan) parties, is it in an official capacity or not?


All contacts from the official email account have been related to following up on potential CI activity within ufology, or fraudulent activity related to scientific studies that the U.S. is official interested in (there's nothing secret about that interest, btw.) Other than that, most discussions are from the private/personal email account and they are not much different than discussions we've had with other guys, whether they are current or former employees of the U.S. government or military, who have an interest in dramas within the "Soap Opera." You left out Chris as one of the contacts, btw. There are about a dozen or more other "contacts" we know about - there's absolutely nothing special about researchers interacting with a USG official, a member of the Air Force, or other similar contacts. Mainstream news reporters do it every day. It's only believers in a "cover-up" who infer deeper meaning to those contacts.

Like his interaction with Smith, no way do I believe he had no idea Dan would post it.

Of course he knew


That's absolutely right. :)
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby Gary » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:34 pm

I want to state here for the record:

Ron Pandolfi is not one of my primary sources, although we occasionally cross paths (most paths intersect with Dan T. Smith).

Ron did request that specific items be redacted from Starstream Research articles and that other information be handled as confidential.

A fair amount of information arrived on my desk via channels that may have circumvented Ron's intentions, and placed him in an awkward position.

Ron has graciously answered a handful of questions, including one about Jon Ronson's allegation of Uri Geller's claim to have been "reactivated" by a man called "Ron."

BTW on the topic of 'real' psi-spy research ... 60 MINUTES ran a segment last night on fMRI "telepathy":

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/ ... 4713.shtml

"You might be able to tell if someone's been in an al Qaeda training camp before," Haynes replied.

Haynes said while U.S. national security agencies had not been in touch with him, the Germans had.

"So there are people who are considering these kinds of possibilities," Stahl commented.

And some are using them. In India last summer, a woman was convicted of murder after an EEG of her brain allegedly revealed that she was familiar with the circumstances surrounding the poisoning of her ex-fiancé.
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby ryguy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:33 pm

Gary wrote:"So there are people who are considering these kinds of possibilities," Stahl commented.

And some are using them. In India last summer, a woman was convicted of murder after an EEG of her brain allegedly revealed that she was familiar with the circumstances surrounding the poisoning of her ex-fiancé.[/i]


Yes...and Next in India's news: Man marries Dog

A man in southern India married a female dog in a traditional Hindu ceremony as an attempt to atone for stoning two other dogs to death — an act he believes cursed him.


Oh yeah...clearly one of the most intellectually advanced countries in the world...
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby Gary » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:28 am

Machine telepathy:

60 Minutes asked if his team was up for a challenge: would they take associate producer Meghan Frank, whose brain had never been scanned before, and see if the computer could identify her thoughts? Just and Mitchell agreed to give it a try and see if they could do it in almost real time.

Just said nobody had ever done an instant analysis like this.

Inside the scanner, Meghan was shown a series of ten items and asked to think for a few seconds about each one.

"If it all comes out right, when she's thinking 'hammer,' the computer will know she's thinking 'hammer'?" Stahl asked.

"Right," Mitchell replied.

Within minutes, the computer, unaware of what pictures Meghan had been shown and working only from her brain activity patterns as read out by the scanner, was ready to tell us, in its own voice, what it believed was the first object Meghan had been thinking about.

The computer correctly analyzed the first three words - knife, hammer, and window, and aced the rest as well.

According to Just, this is just the beginning.

"Who knows what you're gonna be able to read," Stahl commented. "A little scary, actually."

"Well, that's our research program for the next five years," Just said. "To see what, you know - we're not satisfied with "hammer."
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby ryguy » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:58 pm

And what exactly confirmed that the answers produced were correct? The order in which she "thought" about the items matching the order in which the machine produced the results....which just so happened to match the order of the cards as they were handed to her? What, precisely, were the conditions of that little televised "test"? 60 Minutes can be scammed, as can CEO's and other seemingly intelligent people.

Here's a great example of a guy who convinced intelligent CEOs and other investors that his "black box" machine could transmit data over copper wire at speeds 4 times the speed of fiber optics.

He choreographed elaborate demonstrations, quickening the pulses of engineers shocked by its innovation and capitalists stunned by its potential.

He asked for money and received it, sometimes more than a million dollars at a time, enough to move him from a cobblestone street in Palatka to a gated community in St. Augustine.

And then he stalled, stymied and stonewalled. Prototypes were destroyed by lightning, floods and plane crashes, he said. They were too unstable for independent tests. Just a little more money, he said, and it would be ready. Just a little bit more.


He hoodwinked engineers...why? Because they were not allowed a peek under the hood. And, by the way, there were "concepts like Hal Puthoff's" to support his "theories."

His ideas are interesting and provocative, so he's got a good story," said Hal Puthoff, a Texas physicist considered an expert in the concepts Priest said he was using. "It might not be a true story, but it hangs together, at least in his own jargon."


With all due respect, Gary, people who promote such claims without appropriate evidence that shows how and why it works (which they can't do, because it would show that it doesn't "work" - it's just stagecraft), provide scammers with the publicity and fuel they need to fatten their pocketbooks. It's sickening how common this scenerio is.

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby ryguy » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:13 pm

Oh...I should include what end the scammer met.

10 Year Minimum Prison Term

In the end, they got him for growing pot.

But Assistant Statewide Prosecutor Luis Bustamante said the 10-year minimum Priest will receive in federal prison is more time than he would get in state prison if convicted in the investment scheme. He said state investigators have been waiting to see what happens with the federal charges before deciding whether to invest any more resources in their probe.

"At a time when there's budgetary concerns among many state agencies, spending money to investigate someone who's already in prison would be throwing good money after bad," Bustamante said.

Investors in Priest's so-called "magic box" technology included Blockbuster, Orange Park real estate broker Walter Williams and the son of media mogul Ted Turner. Bustamante said the end of the state probe means the investors will have to file civil suits to get their money back. Several have.


-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby Access Denied » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:06 pm

Justice is served. :D

Actually Ryan, this simple experiment doesn’t sound too far fetched…

How Technology May Soon "Read" Your Mind

[link to article and video]

Of course statistically matching prerecorded response patterns to a specific set of simple images is a far cry from Minorty Report… plus you have to be stuffed into a MRI machine for it to work. ;)

[that rules aliens out but no doubt Gary will spin this six ways to Sunday to get there]
Men go and come but Earth abides.
User avatar
Access Denied
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:32 am
Location: [redacted]

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby ryguy » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:33 pm

Hey, thanks for that link AD, I like this:

"Are you saying that if you think of a hammer, that your brain is identical to my brain when I think of a hammer?" Stahl asked.

"Not identical. We have idiosyncrasies. Maybe I've had a bad experience with a hammer and you haven't, but it's close enough to identify each other's thoughts. So, you know, that was never known before," Just explained.


I can dig a computer's ability to identify idosyncrasies (hopefully two thoughts don't have nearly matching patterns...or what about 100 thoughts...or 10000??)...lol. I do think the technology described in that article could help to identify general intentions or overall moods, etc..

One thing I've always been fascinated with is technology that is seeking to interface human thought with computers - for example Mind Drive that used galvanic skin response - others theorize using thermo-response (sort of like those nifty little mood rings).

Most experts, I think, still admit that the technology is still primitive. The MRI approach is definitely more advanced, but not by much. Instead of using the patterns of temperature or electrical rise/fall of skin, they're identifying patterns of electrical activity in the brain. Tying actually thoughts like "hammer" or "screwdriver" seems like a bit of a stretch to me...but hey - it would be really cool to be proven wrong! I'd be one of the first to buy a mind-controlled computer game. Maybe a Mind-Controlled Wii? :)

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby Gary » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:01 pm

National Science Foundation story:

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=111641

The research was conducted by a computer scientist, Tom Mitchell, and a cognitive neuroscientist, Marcel Just, both of Carnegie Mellon University. Their previous research, supported by the National Science Foundation (NSF) and the W.M. Keck Foundation, had shown that functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) can detect and locate brain activity when a person thinks about a specific word. Using this data, the researchers developed a computational model that enabled a computer to correctly determine what word a research subject was thinking about by analyzing brain scan data.

In their most recent work, Just and Mitchell used fMRI data to develop a more sophisticated computational model that can predict the brain activation patterns associated with concrete nouns, or things that we experience through our senses, even if the computer did not already have the fMRI data for that specific noun.

The researchers first built a model that took the fMRI activation patterns for 60 concrete nouns broken down into 12 categories including animals, body parts, buildings, clothing, insects, vehicles and vegetables. The model also analyzed a text corpus, or a set of texts that contained more than a trillion words, noting how each noun was used in relation to a set of 25 verbs associated with sensory or motor functions. Combining the brain scan information with the analysis of the text corpus, the computer then predicted the brain activity pattern of thousands of other concrete nouns.


I have seen government contracts funding similar research in the use of fMRI for homeland security purposes.
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

Re: Pelican 2, Bluejay & Owl 0

Postby Gary » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:03 pm

Of course this development might be a significant clue for the "telepathic" messages reported by the NIDS' physicist at Skinwalker Ranch in Utah.
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

PreviousNext

Google

Return to The Aviary

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests

cron