TOP SECRET -- MAJIC -- EYES ONLY

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TOP SECRET -- MAJIC -- EYES ONLY

Postby Gary » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:11 am

A few items I haven't seen RU address but would like to see investigated:

[A] The revelation of the SECRET DIA funding of parapsychology research during the UFO Cover-up Live, which allegedly included a live video feed to Moscow. A clear violation by revealing the existence of what I recall was a Special Access Program run by DIA (not SUN STREAK operational remote viewing, but a Los Alamos scientific investigation into remote mental influence of skin conductance).

[B] Lee Graham's claim of SECRET codewords displayed during the same program -- words used on CRT displays concerning incoming flying objects.

[C] The MJ-12 documents stamped CONFIDENTIAL which were returned to Lee Graham after he baited the Office of the Vice President with an MJ-12 inquiry which included codewords for the then secret stealth program.

[D] Dan Smith's claim that Ron Pandolfi alleged real secret information was encoded and communicated using the MJ-12 documents; intended for/or from the Soviets.

[E] The alleged support of Rick Doty by DCI Richard Helms at a private meeting according to leaked emails wherein a certain government consultant explains why he cannot be involved in disclosing what may be government protected information.
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby Access Denied » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:00 am

Now you're talking... :mrgreen:
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby ryguy » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:58 pm

Gary wrote:A few items I haven't seen RU address but would like to see investigated:

[A] The revelation of the SECRET DIA funding of parapsychology research during the UFO Cover-up Live, which allegedly included a live video feed to Moscow. A clear violation by revealing the existence of what I recall was a Special Access Program run by DIA (not SUN STREAK operational remote viewing, but a Los Alamos scientific investigation into remote mental influence of skin conductance).


Good point. Recall which of the birdbrains would have most likely had knowledge/awareness of that research. Hint: It ain't Rick Doty.

[B] Lee Graham's claim of SECRET codewords displayed during the same program -- words used on CRT displays concerning incoming flying objects.


Not important. Kit also claimed code words were located throughout such material coming out in the 1980s, but other than their word, there's no way to know for certain whether that's really true. A man's word is good enough for some, I guess.

[C] The MJ-12 documents stamped CONFIDENTIAL which were returned to Lee Graham after he baited the Office of the Vice President with an MJ-12 inquiry which included codewords for the then secret stealth program.


I thought, in your emails, you were referencing the fact that they came back as "UNCLASSIFIED" - where have you ever seen MJ-12 documents marked CONFIDENTIAL by any gov agency. As far as I know the only ones stamped with anything were the original fabricated ones.

[D] Dan Smith's claim that Ron Pandolfi alleged real secret information was encoded and communicated using the MJ-12 documents; intended for/or from the Soviets.


I thought Dan claimed that Kit said that, as far as I understood. Could you provide a quote? Although we know how "reliable" Dan's reports are...

[E] The alleged support of Rick Doty by DCI Richard Helms at a private meeting according to leaked emails wherein a certain government consultant explains why he cannot be involved in disclosing what may be government protected information.



The claim of that that support has already been proven to come from the same Aviarians who also originally defended Rick Doty agains the email IP smoking gun. Need I say more?

Keep an eye on our upcoming update, and more of how these guys operate are going to become very clear...maybe then you'll stop giving so much weight to the claims above that the birdbrains send you.

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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby Gary » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:44 am

Ryan wrote: "I thought, in your emails, you were referencing the fact that they came back as "UNCLASSIFIED" - where have you ever seen MJ-12 documents marked CONFIDENTIAL by any gov agency. As far as I know the only ones stamped with anything were the original fabricated ones."

Thanks Ryan, yes you are correct. I meant to write UNCLASSIFIED which is, however, an official use only government designation:

http://www.acq.osd.mil/ncbdp/nm/nmbook/ ... s/ap_F.htm

F.6.1 Originally Classified Documents
EO 13292 requires certain essential markings on originally classified documents. This section will explain each marking and how it is appropriately placed onto a classified document. The essential markings are: portion marking, overall classification, “classified by” line, reason for classification, and “declassify on” line.

Portions can be paragraphs, charts, tables, pictures, illustrations, subjects, and titles. Before each portion a marking is placed in parentheses. (U) is used for Unclassified, (C) for Confidential, (S) for Secret, and (TS) for Top Secret. The subsequent paragraph underneath also has its own classification marking. The classification of the portion is not affected by any of the information or markings of other portions within the same document.


I will see if I can access any documents on the 1980s Los Alamos paranormal research program. Keep in mind that at that time DIA paranormal programs were special access restricted programs:

Need-to-know is defined in DoD 5200.2-R as a determination made by a possessor of classified information that a prospective recipient, in the interest of national security, has a requirement for access to, knowledge, or possession of classified information in order to perform tasks or services essential to the fulfillment of an official United States Government program. Knowledge, possession of, or access to, classified information shall not be afforded to any individual solely by virtue of the individual’s office, position, or security clearance.
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:51 pm

Gary wrote:Thanks Ryan, yes you are correct. I meant to write UNCLASSIFIED which is, however, an official use only government designation:


As usual, it appears that Gary is playing the "spy game" again and trying to insinuate something without coming right out and saying it. By making this statement and quoting the classification handbook, are you actually trying to claim that just because it was stamped UNCLASSIFIED that it had to be official? (i.e. "for official use only")

Please tell me you are not saying this, Gary. :shock:
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby Gary » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:28 pm

Take a look ...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5R8VzxdnK2M/S ... -12+UK.JPG

Compare the document returned to Lee Graham by the US government (and later the subject of his request for distribution to the USAF OSI) to the officially released UK MoD "UFO" document.

On her MAJESTIC Secret Service, perhaps?
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:43 pm

Gary wrote:Take a look ...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5R8VzxdnK2M/S ... -12+UK.JPG

Compare the document returned to Lee Graham by the US government (and later the subject of his request for distribution to the USAF OSI) to the officially released UK MoD "UFO" document.

On her MAJESTIC Secret Service, perhaps?


My God, Gary. Can you ever spit something out, or will you forever take the innuendo route? It gets really annoying. Do you plan to tell me what you think is odd or relevant in these two docs? Or are you waiting for me to simply divulge what I know is real or not based on my daily familiarity with classified documents? I could do that, but I would rather you tell me what you are hinting at. What are you hinting at that YOU think lends creedence to any of them being official?

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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby Gary » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:15 am

You might be able to help.

Most of the declassification markings I am familiar with are relatively recent CIA releases, which look nothing like the UNCLASSIFIED marking on MJ-12 documents from Lee Graham's Defense Investigative Service file (the source of the UNCLASSIFIED "MJ-12" document.

Graham was investigated because he included codename for then SECRET stealth program in his request to the Vice President's office. He received the file under a personal FOIA request. He also presented a FOIA to USAF OSI for documents confirming MJ-12 was "bogus" as reported by FBI based upon OSI input.

USAF OSI were unable to produce any record to that effect.

I am also wondering if anyone has ever presented a FOIA request to UK MoD for MJ-12, MAJESTIC 12, or similar.

I am not making any claims of any kind; certainly not on the basis of the limited information currently at hand.

I am asking for any expert input concerning US government agency/service use of UNCLASSIFIED document marking.

The GAO noted something like 56 different markings for different agencies/services for material that might fall under some kind of unclassified "for official use only" or other sensitive designation.

The comparative documents from MoD were all recently released. UK-based Remote viewer Daz Smith (SURFING THE PSYCHIC INTERNET) was provided several files by MoD in response to his FOIA request. We know from those files that MoD was interested in exploring psychic perception (2002) and many of those documents were redacted due to a relationship with another country (probably the US). We also have MoD documents on Soviet and FSU research into torsion fields for remote perception.
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:20 pm

I cannot speak for UK MOD classification markings, for obvious reasons. And it would be a mistake to assume they abide by the same rules of formatting that the US does. However, there are a great many problems with the MJ-12 snippet, some of which I can openly comment upon, others which I cannot.

1) Originally-classifed documents do NOT use the "TOP SECRET" with a block of asterisks around it as the original classification markings. That is so far off the rules that govern classification markings as to be laughable.
2) Because of these original classification marking rules, there is NEVER any need for a stamp such as that seen on this document saying "TOP SECRET/MAJIC".
3) The moniker "MAJIC" has a fundamental flaw with respect to rules of project codes names. I cannot give details but anyone who knows project code names knows what it is.
4) There is no "(U)" or "(C)" or "(S)" or "(TS)" portion marking on the "Warning" paragraph. There must be if it were real.
5) The very use of the term "WARNING!" in a classification statement is incorrect and laughable. The terms "WARNING" and "CAUTION" have VERY specific definitions and uses, especially in the military world. These relate to the potential for damage and/or bodily injury and/or the potential for death. The potential for litigation and/or criminal actions against you do NOT rise to the level of a CAUTION and certainly not a WARNING. These are just not used in classified data markings.
6) "TOP SECRET" is a used term, but not "EYES ONLY". That is never used. Now, it MAY be used in UK MOD, but I would not know and it would not matter to a US doc.
7) Any piece of information that was legitimately and originally classified (Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret) will NEVER be stamped with merely an "UNCLASSIFIED" stamp. It MUST have "downgrade information" attached to show when it was reviewed and downgraded and for what reason. Always. If the "UNCLASSIFIED T52-EXEMPT (E)" stamp is a real artifact from the US GOV (and it could be), then my hunch is that this stamp is basically telling anyone "this stuff never was classified" and the "T52-EXEMPT" could even specify something like "this is a hoax, and not GOV document"... Dunno that for sure.
8. The final statement about "reproduction" and the rest is flat-out wrong. Reproduction IS permitted on all levels of classified data, but under strict rules. Anything TOP SECRET that is reproduced gets it own unique control number for each copy. There are other aspects with respect to this that I cannot discuss.
9) "Majestic-12 clearance level" is also an amateurish misuse of terminology with respect to clearance levels. One's clearance level is never specifically attached to a project/program. Hence, you would never have a named clearance level with a program name. That causes many problems, which I cannot discuss. But should be easy for an intelligent person to figure out.

Is that enough?
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby Gary » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:18 am

If Ray is correct then there is a significant problem with the files supplied by Graham from his DIS file.

The original MJ-12 documents were NOT stamped UNCLASSIFIED. That is how they were returned to Graham in his DIS file. Another document in the file which is not MJ related bears the same marking.

Ray writes that "Any piece of information that was legitimately and originally classified (Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret) will NEVER be stamped with merely an "UNCLASSIFIED" stamp. It MUST have "downgrade information" attached to show when it was reviewed and downgraded and for what reason."

[BTW the T52-EXEMPT was in the original document.]

However, the MoD documents are stamped UNCLASSIFIED next to the original marking. I have examples of two different stamps on different MoD collections, where both are stamped UNCLASSIFIED next to the original classification marking. The one discrepancy is the confirmed MoD documents are stamped at the top and bottom; Graham's DIS file document are stamped only at the bottom.
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby Gary » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:06 pm

A few more items worth investigating, IMHO:

"1) Originally-classifed documents do NOT use the "TOP SECRET" with a block of asterisks around it as the original classification markings. That is so far off the rules that govern classification markings as to be laughable."

Some UK MoD documents use a marking, such as UNCLASSIFIED, with a block around the letters. It is possible that the "block of asterisks" represents the same.

"2) Because of these original classification marking rules, there is NEVER any need for a stamp such as that seen on this document saying "TOP SECRET/MAJIC"."

Is it is possible that the original document landed in the file of another agency/service/nation?

"3) The moniker "MAJIC" has a fundamental flaw with respect to rules of project codes names. I cannot give details but anyone who knows project code names knows what it is."

Perhaps it is a reference to another nation's project? Or even an inside joke?

"her MAJesty's Intelligence Community"

"4) There is no "(U)" or "(C)" or "(S)" or "(TS)" portion marking on the "Warning" paragraph. There must be if it were real.'

That convention was not in place at the alleged time frame of the original document.

According to CRS Report RL33494:

A few years after the conclusion of World War II, President Harry S. Truman,
in February 1950, issued E.O. 10104, which, while superseding E.O. 8381, basically
reiterated its text, but added to Restricted, Confidential, and Secret a fourth Top
Secret classification designation, making American information security categories
consistent with those of our allies.3 At the time of the promulgation of this order,
however, plans were underway for a complete overhaul of the classification program,
which would result in a dramatic change in policy.


However, use of both "EYES ONLY" and "TOP SECRET" can be found in this 6 June 1944 letter from General Eisenhower at the National Archives on line:

http://www.archives.gov/education/lesso ... y-memo.jpg

So it is clear that conventions cannot be trusted.

"5) The very use of the term "WARNING!" in a classification statement is incorrect and laughable. The terms "WARNING" and "CAUTION" have VERY specific definitions and uses, especially in the military world. These relate to the potential for damage and/or bodily injury and/or the potential for death. The potential for litigation and/or criminal actions against you do NOT rise to the level of a CAUTION and certainly not a WARNING. These are just not used in classified data markings."

WARNING is commonly used; as is WARNING NOTICE or WN, usually followed by an explanation such as Intel Sources and Methods, etc.

"6) "TOP SECRET" is a used term, but not "EYES ONLY". That is never used. Now, it MAY be used in UK MOD, but I would not know and it would not matter to a US doc."

Again, see http://www.archives.gov/education/lesso ... y-memo.jpg where "EYES ONLY" was used in a letter from Eisenhower on 6 June 1944.

7) Any piece of information that was legitimately and originally classified (Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret) will NEVER be stamped with merely an "UNCLASSIFIED" stamp. It MUST have "downgrade information" attached to show when it was reviewed and downgraded and for what reason. Always."

Except in the UK, where FOIA released SECRET EYES ONLY documents are stamped UNCLASSIFIED to indicate their official release.

"9) "Majestic-12 clearance level" is also an amateurish misuse of terminology with respect to clearance levels. One's clearance level is never specifically attached to a project/program. Hence, you would never have a named clearance level with a program name. That causes many problems, which I cannot discuss. But should be easy for an intelligent person to figure out."

Actually in the case of SPECIAL ACCESS REQUIRED, or LIMDIS limited distribution) etc. Or "HANDLE VIA xxx CHANNELS ONLY" ... and so on.

Any questions?
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby Gary » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:25 pm

Again, the main point for now: The Eisenhower document at http://www.archives.gov/education/lesso ... y-memo.jpg is an example of the use of TOP SECRET before TOP SECRET was sanctioned; "President Harry S. Truman, in February 1950, issued E.O. 10104, which, while superseding E.O. 8381, basically
reiterated its text, but added to Restricted, Confidential, and Secret a fourth Top Secret classification designation, making American information security categories consistent with those of our allies"; as well as use of the "EYES ONLY" marking.

It is suggested that documents intended for use by multiple agencies at multiple nations may appear to the untrained researcher as hybrids of style which appear fake since they do not follow accepted convention.
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby Gary » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:01 pm

Probably a coincidence but note this from http://www.mathaba.net/data/sis/mi6-sd36.shtml

Some code words in this chapter have had to be disguised on legal advice.

Officers learn about 'off-line' systems for the encryption of messages such as N***** - used prior to transmission by cipher machines - and 'on-line' systems for the protection of telegrams during transmission, code-named H*** and T********.


[The EBD MAJIC document is marked with T52 EXEMPT]

They are indoctrinated into the use of certain cryptonyms for forwarding telegrams to particular organisations and offices such as SIS headquarters, which is designated A****. They also learn about code words with which sensitive messages are headlined, indicating to whom they may be shown. UK EYES ALPHA warns that the contents are not to be shown to any foreigners and are intended only for the home intelligence and security services, armed forces and Whitehall recipients. UK EYES B includes the above categories, the Northern Ireland Office, LIST X firms engaged in the manufacture of sensitive equipment, and certain US, Australian, New Zealand and Canadian intelligence personnel liaising with the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) in London. Additional code words mark specific exclusions and inclusions.[b] E****** material cannot be shown to the Americans, while L***** deprives local intelligence officials and agencies of its content. Material for named individual officers, sometimes at specified times, is headed D**** or D****, while particularly sensitive material about a fellow officer or operation is known as D******.[/b]

MA-JIC perhaps (MA - Joint Intelligence Committee) ... Again nothing to be taken seriously here beyond further investigation.
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby Gary » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:13 pm

I see that Timothy Good provided a document that presents MAJIC as MILITARY ASSESSMENT JOINT INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Inte ... mittee_(UK)

I came to the same conclusion just prior to finding this:

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/pdf/hi ... r_memo.pdf

I have also located a CIA sourced document from 1952 that bears a (very) small resemblance to the EBD format:

http://www.foia.cia.gov/search.asp?page ... Order=ASC#
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Re: The MJ-12 Saga Continues: Operation Bird Droppings

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:16 am

As I suspected, Gary. You were not looking for help as much as you were playing a game to "make yourself right". You do realize how annoying that can be, I hope?

1) Did you pay any attention to my admonition that drawing comparisons between US and UK security handling and classification rules is tenuous, at best?
2) So you found an acronym for "JIC"... in the UK. And now you wish to (sloppily) try and tie it to some fabled "MAJIC"? Interesting gymnastics, Gary.
3) Isn't it cute how, right after displaying what someone wishes you to believe is an "official CIA" document page, there is a page that follows for ordering more document$ and DVD$ from maje$ticdocument$.com? This website is all about making money, Gary. Do you honestly intend to hold-up anything from that website as "research evidence"? If so, you are even more sloppy than at first I believed.
4) Did you know that your last link does not take you to a document?
5) However, while I am not sure which document you were intending someone to read, here is a link to one of the documents in the list that comes up from your link:

http://www.foia.cia.gov/browse_docs.asp

Notice the differing type (with some handwriting) at the bottom-right-center with the words "No Change in Class" in it. These are the declassification markings I was talking about in the statements I provided for you. Note the date of this action being 4/1/78.

Have fun playing spy, Gary...
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