"The Weird Desk"?

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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby Gary » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:48 am

I've posted a few new declassified documents; for anyone who is interested, there is a history of the early INSCOM operational remote viewing program. The INSCOM program is the one associated with 'Men Who Stare at Goats' ...

Image

Go to this link for the other seven pages:

http://www.starpod.org/Slideshow/1011251ss.htm
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby James Carlson » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:07 am

Gary wrote:I've posted a few new declassified documents; for anyone who is interested, there is a history of the early INSCOM operational remote viewing program. The INSCOM program is the one associated with 'Men Who Stare at Goats' ...

Image

Go to this link for the other seven pages:

http://www.starpod.org/Slideshow/1011251ss.htm

I was just taking a quick look at some of the stuff posted and noted these discussions. Anyway, I took a quick glance and noticed that these documents in particular are not properly classified, and that raises some serious questions regarding their authenticity. I think they're forgeries. You've got classifications stamped on top of downgading orders, which were obviously printed when the documents were printed, and you don't have paragraph level class statements anywhere. Someone familiar with classification protocols would look for explanations for these points before accepting anything in the documents as valid. There are very good reasons for every requirement set forth in classified materials protocols in use today, and there are a number of requirements that have been ignored in these documents. You don't have specified security classifications noted and there's no indication anywhere regarding the length or scope of the materials, which is also required. Until someone produces an explanation to explain what's missing, as well as the declass statements positioning on every page, I think it's a pretty safe bet that these are not actual documents, or at least actual documents that were classified SECRET at one time -- they're fakes.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby Access Denied » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:23 am

James Carlson wrote:Until someone produces an explanation to explain what's missing, as well as the declass statements positioning on every page, I think it's a pretty safe bet that these are not actual documents, or at least actual documents that were classified SECRET at one time -- they're fakes.

It's probably a genuine document from the CIA's “Stargate” files. Rather than line through the classification markings by hand per SOP, I believe they simply applied an electronic "Approved For Release" stamp automatically when they scanned, reviewed, and declassified some 89,000 documents in the collection all at once to comply with a Congressional mandate. Here's a particularly amusing one from Daz's site for comparison…

http://www.remoteviewed.com/blogdocs/James%20Randi.pdf

That said, in general, I wouldn’t trust anything from Gary’s web site. He doesn’t know it yet but if and when he comes back after his suspension, he will no longer be allowed to link to and promote it…
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby James Carlson » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:52 am

Access Denied wrote:
James Carlson wrote:Until someone produces an explanation to explain what's missing, as well as the declass statements positioning on every page, I think it's a pretty safe bet that these are not actual documents, or at least actual documents that were classified SECRET at one time -- they're fakes.

It's probably a genuine document from the CIA's “Stargate” files. Rather than line through the classification markings by hand per SOP, I believe they simply applied an electronic "Approved For Release" stamp automatically when they scanned, reviewed, and declassified some 89,000 documents in the collection all at once to comply with a Congressional mandate. Here's a particularly amusing one from Daz's site for comparison…

http://www.remoteviewed.com/blogdocs/James%20Randi.pdf

That said, in general, I wouldn’t trust anything from Gary’s web site. He doesn’t know it yet but if and when he comes back after his suspension, he will no longer be allowed to link to and promote it…

The files he's mentioned above are lacking page numbers, archive numbers and paragraph markings, but they're missing. They're present on the Randi file when necessary, but they aren't included on those pages in Randi that aren't classified. Since those documents were needlessly assigned release instructions, it's apparent that unclass docs were mixed in with the 89,000 pages you mention above. The pages he noted on his site seem to have more in common with the unclassified pages in the Randi file than they do with the classified portions. On some of those pages, I'm pretty sure the SECRET assignment is on top of the release instructions -- to me anyway, but I could be mistaken. I don't know why anyone would want to do so, but it also looks like a bunch of unclass pages that had been assigned release instructions were only stamped SECRET after the fact. Again, I certainly could be wrong, but there are some notable problems that haven't been explained. Also, they should have downgrading statements if they were drafted before 1980-81. These have nothing. The only problem I can see in it involves motivation. Why would anyone stamp a bunch of unclassified pages with a classification marking? But like I said, I may be wrong.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby James Carlson » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:22 pm

These documents were really bugging me, for some reason, so I decided to take a closer look at http://www.starpod.org/Slideshow/1011251ss.htm where they were sourced from. The website, to some extent at least, looks to be an extended advertisement for Gay S. Bekkum's book(s) about UFOs and spies. Obviously, you would know more about a lot of this stuff than I would, but I'm having a hard time getting past the fact that these documents he's used to define the "Official History of the 'Men Who Stare at Goats': The INSCOM File" look like they were never actually classified -- not properly anyway. When compared to the Randi file you've pointed out above, they have a lot more in common with the newspaper articles and other obviously unclassified documents than they do with those portions that were properly classified within the same file. It's just weird.

On the same page, where Bekkum is discussing his book "Spies, Lies, and Polygraph Tape", he mentions that his information is "Drawn from the files of the private intelligence source STARstream Research". He also states: "Twenty years later, the game continues where disturbing worlds collide. The heart of the matter: a US Government UFO Working Group, dark secrets kept in the shadows under the guise of counter-intelligence operations of the United States Air Force, and decades-old rumors of extraterrestrial contact with 'something not of this world.' The Official's concern: hidden within tales of 'Real Life X-Files' a potentially dangerous viral marketing scheme, possibly intended to elicit real classified information from past and present intelligence officers." Real classified information? What, as opposed to fake classified information?

"Stranger still, government files prove that the US government spent decades exploring the paranormal psychic spying, in an effort to 'know the future' and beat the Russians, in a race to obtain technologies from beyond our world." I think we're expected to actually believe this garbage.

Now this is just a supposition, and I have nothing at all that might prove whether it's true or not, but wouldn't it give his book and research a lot more immediacy and a more disturbing sense of "dark secrets kept in the shadows under the guise of counter-intelligence operations" if the files he used were SECRET files as opposed to unclassified junk files that discussed matters that were never considered very important or even classified to start with?

I'd like to know your opinion on this, because it's obvious I probably know less than anybody else what these "stargate" files are all about. I'm not at all familiar with the background or research that's been conducted, and all I've really looked at are the physical appearance of the files themselves, and the fact that they don't appear to have much of anything in common with actual classified documentation. It's possible I've got too much free time on my hands, and I am certainly skeptical of such claims from the get-go, but the appearance of those files really did jump out and scream that something very odd might be going on. At the same time, the whole "STARstream Research" angle sounds more like something from a poorly written "Man From U.N.C.L.E." episode, which is hard to get past as well. Also this CIA "stargate" matter you mentioned: was that a serious intelligence project? What did that involve, and was it involved in some way with "STARstream Research"? I have no intention of getting into a whole new line of research just so I can answer these questions -- I'm really not all that interested in it, to be frank. It's just something I noticed while casually surfing through parts of the RU website that I'd never had cause to examine before, so believe me, it's just a very casual interest at best. I don't even know what "stargate" really refers to, and I'm more than willing to acknowledge your expertise on the subject -- but these particular pages did kind of jump out at me, and I was a little curious.

Also, the bottom of page states "STARstream Research is a provider of intelligence and analysis on futuristic national and international defense, security and risk developments. STARstream Research is an independent organization that relies on the input of a network of researchers around the world with vested interest in cutting edge and beyond the edge developments in exotic phenomenology and human effects. SSR provides information targeted to members of the defense and intelligence community by offering unique reports that examine topics considered off-limits by other private intelligence organizations. Founded in 2004, STARstream Research / STARpod.org is positioned to offer the public a view of the developing 21st Century, by providing a specialized synthesis of cutting edge information, background material and analysis not available anywhere else on line." In other words, they're Isaac Asimov without the talent, and all they really do is discuss future possibilities in an intelligence framework. Is this really a valid resource for information that can be trusted?

Following this, at the bottom of the page, it states "Disclaimer: USM/AMP are known to be wrong more often that they are correct. There is no explicit nor implicit endorsement of the accuracy of Unconventional Sources and Methods: Anomalous Mental Phenomena information by our authors, nor by STARstream Research. It is provided specifically for "threat scenario" development in the context of current events, as an aid to anticipate potentials for future outcomes." You don't often see disclaimers regarding classified materials that were actually classified. There are quite a few things about this that scream, "fake!" It's a very odd page of documents we've been pointed to, in my opinion.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby Access Denied » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:57 am

Well, you could be right (I wouldn’t put it past him) but it should be noted page numbers aren’t necessarily required. Presumably (indeed necessarily given the missing primary markings as you pointed out) this is part of a larger document he neglected to include the rest of and in my opinion, the nature of the material, in this case a table, doesn't necessarily require portion markings. To be sure we would need to see (preferably from an independently verifiable source) the rest of the document it’s from.

For example, from approximately the same time frame…

http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000139 ... 0_0001.gif
http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000139 ... 0_0002.gif

At any rate, this is just one of the many reasons why Gary can’t be taken seriously. As you have surmised from just a brief exposure to his material, clearly his modus oprandi is to fling as much out of context stuff out there as he can in the hopes of fooling prospective customers into believing there’s mystery and intrigue to be found where in fact there is none…

The Evidence for Psychic Functioning: Claims vs. Reality
Ray Hyman
Skeptical Inquirer, Volume 20.2, March / April 1996
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/evidence_ ... ._reality/

The recent media frenzy over the Stargate report violated the truth. Sober scientific assessment has little hope of winning in the public forum when pitted against unsubstantiated and unchallenged claims of “psychics” and psychic researchers — especially when the claimants shamelessly indulge in hyperbole. While this situation may be depressing, it is not unexpected. The proponents of the paranormal have seized an opportunity to achieve by propaganda what they have failed to achieved through science.

Most of these purveyors of psychic myths should not be taken seriously.

Personally I believe that’s an understatement.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby James Carlson » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:05 am

It's apparent you know a lot more about all this -- I've skimmed a few of the earlier pages he's posted, and I agree with your conclusions based on them alone. That being said, I loved "'The Men Who Stare at Goats", but accepting it as a work of non-fiction? Well, if "USM/AMP are known to be wrong more often than they are correct" and there being "no explicit nor implicit endorsement of the accuracy of Unconventional Sources and Methods", who the heck am I to argue? I think it's hilarious that on one hand they admit to an absence of evidence and deny any attempts to endorse an evidential point of view, and on the other they insist that there is plenty of evidence, and strongly endorse the conclusions that evidence highlights -- but that's just me.

By the way, I love the responses you and ryguy posted on page 24; I'll bet that was a lot of fun!

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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby Gary » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:18 pm

James, go to the CIA's CREST on-line search tool, and type in STAR GATE (yes, two words).

http://www.foia.cia.gov/search_archive.asp

This should pull up a list of some of the STAR GATE files with brief descriptions. The original release was sanctioned in 2003 and published by CIA on a collection of compact discs for about $140 in 2004.

It appears they have subsequently released more documents (requiring a FOIA request and possibly new fees) ... I'd be interested in the Senate Intelligence Committee documents since they appear to be from the same time frame as the Dan Smith/Ron Pandolfi/Chris Straub (SSCI) meetings.

Btw Ray Hyman agreed their were anomalies in the data; he simply concluded (without further investigation) they were not due to 'paranormal' effects. Also, the STAR GATE collection contains more material than Hyman et al had access to for their AIR report in 1995.

My primary interest is in the political jockeying between CIA and DIA over the program; according to Jim Schnabel's book (Remote Viewers) it was Ron Pandolfi who was actively looking to get access to and shut down STAR GATE.

STAR GATE has become the nickname for all of the various efforts, however the real STAR GATE was a DIA program run in the early 1990s. It is interesting to consider the competition between various politicians, agencies, services, and private contractors, over the 'paranormal' material.

The fact that MoD conducted a post-9/11 remote viewing study (2002) is also interesting; much of the redacted material was excised to protect a allied foreign power (US?).

Chris Robinson (UK psychic, soon to be Marvel Superhero? @TheRealStanLee I am Future Man, I would know you are you before you did. England / Scotland. Dream Detective soon to be DREAMER ) claims his MI5 contact was NOT happy about his work with US intelligence after 9/11; he believes MI6 was involved in disrupting the research here in the US. A former very senior (post 9/11) NSA official has confirmed meeting Robinson here in the US.

As you noted above, our intention with SSR (STARstream Research) was to create an alternative 'Janes' like media source for paranormal research topics outside of the comfort zone of Janes' Nick Cook et al ("Hunt for Zero Point').

The Rick Doty affair was an extension of Caryn Anscomb's work (Trickster Tales) following her involvement with Laura Eisenhower's "Agent X" -- who had introduced Laura to the 'usual suspects' at The Arlington Institute. Laura's mother is a key consultant on all things nuclear for the Obama administration. Her former husband and business partner was a key player in the 1970s Soviet Mars missions. "Agent X" has been promoting a specific nuclear rocket technology intended to be developed for future Mars missions. Caryn and "Agent X" later met up with Hal Puthoff in Austin at Hal's institute. Hal's institute was later cited by Kit Green to conduct tests of a quantum communication system based upon the research of one of our contacts in Beijing.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby ryguy » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:31 pm

What on earth was that manic post all about... For Pete's sake, at least try to focus on one issue at a time. You've just went from DIA to Star Gate to Caryn Anscomb to Agent X to Zero Point to Kit Green to High Freq Grav Wave research all in one fell swoop.

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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby James Carlson » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:07 am

Gary wrote:James, go to the CIA's CREST on-line search tool, and type in STAR GATE (yes, two words).

http://www.foia.cia.gov/search_archive.asp

This should pull up a list of some of the STAR GATE files with brief descriptions. The original release was sanctioned in 2003 and published by CIA on a collection of compact discs for about $140 in 2004.

It appears they have subsequently released more documents (requiring a FOIA request and possibly new fees) ... I'd be interested in the Senate Intelligence Committee documents since they appear to be from the same time frame as the Dan Smith/Ron Pandolfi/Chris Straub (SSCI) meetings.

Btw Ray Hyman agreed their were anomalies in the data; he simply concluded (without further investigation) they were not due to 'paranormal' effects. Also, the STAR GATE collection contains more material than Hyman et al had access to for their AIR report in 1995.

My primary interest is in the political jockeying between CIA and DIA over the program; according to Jim Schnabel's book (Remote Viewers) it was Ron Pandolfi who was actively looking to get access to and shut down STAR GATE.

STAR GATE has become the nickname for all of the various efforts, however the real STAR GATE was a DIA program run in the early 1990s. It is interesting to consider the competition between various politicians, agencies, services, and private contractors, over the 'paranormal' material.

The fact that MoD conducted a post-9/11 remote viewing study (2002) is also interesting; much of the redacted material was excised to protect a allied foreign power (US?).

Chris Robinson (UK psychic, soon to be Marvel Superhero? @TheRealStanLee I am Future Man, I would know you are you before you did. England / Scotland. Dream Detective soon to be DREAMER ) claims his MI5 contact was NOT happy about his work with US intelligence after 9/11; he believes MI6 was involved in disrupting the research here in the US. A former very senior (post 9/11) NSA official has confirmed meeting Robinson here in the US.

As you noted above, our intention with SSR (STARstream Research) was to create an alternative 'Janes' like media source for paranormal research topics outside of the comfort zone of Janes' Nick Cook et al ("Hunt for Zero Point').

The Rick Doty affair was an extension of Caryn Anscomb's work (Trickster Tales) following her involvement with Laura Eisenhower's "Agent X" -- who had introduced Laura to the 'usual suspects' at The Arlington Institute. Laura's mother is a key consultant on all things nuclear for the Obama administration. Her former husband and business partner was a key player in the 1970s Soviet Mars missions. "Agent X" has been promoting a specific nuclear rocket technology intended to be developed for future Mars missions. Caryn and "Agent X" later met up with Hal Puthoff in Austin at Hal's institute. Hal's institute was later cited by Kit Green to conduct tests of a quantum communication system based upon the research of one of our contacts in Beijing.

Competition for intelligence resources is normal -- the profit potential is tremendous, as are the personnel applications. That being said, the fact that an intelligence service would do everything possible to maintain classification status is not a sufficient reason to assign value to those materials. It's very normal for groups like the CIA, DoD, or any other government associated group to attempt maintenance of status quo and to fight any ordered releases of classified information. It doesn't mean the materials are worth the effort. What you call "political jockeying" is normal for any administrative body, and it has very little to do with the ultimate value of the information being subjected to such efforts. That's why most declassification procedures take so long. Before Ronald Reagan changed everything in the 1980s, it was the primary reason that declassification procedures were fairly automated, and required the classifying body to initiate overtures if they wanted to keep the materials classified. Reagan changed all that, so now it's the classification maintenance that's been automated. Declassification is significantly more difficult, which makes the maintenance of secrecy unregulated and impossible to prevent. That's why it has to be ordered by the courts so often. It's also why you can't measure the worth of the materials on the basis of classification alone. The fact that 89,000 pages were ordered into declas is a pretty good sign that not only was the information not very important or useful to the agencies involved, but those same agencies were unable to justify what has become normal maintenance of classification. Justification is a far more accurate basis for the measurement of value. To assume that the materials had worth because declassification was forcibly obtained can't be supported -- not after 1980-81. So, although you might consider it "interesting to consider the competition between various politicians, agencies, services, and private contractors, over the 'paranormal' material", I would consider it more interesting to note that such competition is pretty nonexistent since the materials were released. It seems to me that The competion wasn't for the information; it was for the classified information.

As for your DREAMERS, those guys have been trying to associate themselves to government projects since the 1970s, because it shows the world how "relevant" their abilities are. Unfortunately, until they can prove those abilities exist, anything else is just a waste of time and effort. In my opinion, it's faster, easier, and probably a far more accurate exercise to simply look at the bottom of the page: "Disclaimer: USM/AMP are known to be wrong more often that they are correct. There is no explicit nor implicit endorsement of the accuracy of Unconventional Sources and Methods: Anomalous Mental Phenomena information by our authors, nor by STARstream Research. It is provided specifically for "threat scenario" development in the context of current events, as an aid to anticipate potentials for future outcomes." In other words, I wouldn't believe a thing Chris Robinson says until he can prove it, because he's in the business of selling himself, just like all of the other little Uri Gellers running around in the world today. Fundamentally, they're all "entertainers" who are in the business of promoting themselves, because they don't want to share what little they've got with an actual talent agency. It doesn't make their stories believable, and it doesn't give their so-called "abilities" credence. It just looks interesting on a resume. A lot of them also try to suggest that they've assisted detectives all over the country close out their cold case and open file status criminal cases, but simply saying so doesn't make it true. If you go speak to a lot of the detectives involved in the closure of such cases, they will tell you very quickly that the bull***t is very deep around such people. Telling someone 30 years after the fact that their missing loved one is unfortunately dead and is buried in a forest-region next to a residential area near a rocky patch of hard earth doesn't make you a psychic -- it just makes you a miserable person willing to go to any obscene length imaginable in order to make money off of the sadness of others.

As for everything else, it's been my experience that if your work has real value, and the claims you make are factual, and you can prove this aspect of it, you don't have to run around calling yourself "Agent X" to be noticed. All you have to do is be able to prove your claims. And I haven't seen any of that from anybody. I would say that the most trustworthy statements a person or organization can make are those that they are required to make in order to prevent legal repercussions, i.e., "Disclaimer: USM/AMP are known to be wrong more often that they are correct" ... blah, blah blah, etc. People with actual abilities wouldn't need disclaimers, and the existence of such makes it very easy to dismiss pretty much everything you've said. Combined with the ordered declassification of 89,000 pages of materials you've discussed elsewhere above, there are far more indications of little worth than there are of great worth, and that's notable before I've done any research at all. It's all pretty obvious to me where it would eventually lead. Why do you think I just "skimmed" through the past 26 pages, as I mentioned above? Because that's all I had to do to reach an informed position. Why do you think I asked questions instead of looking it up for myself? Because there's nothing there that really interests me or would be worth the effort of doing so. Coming from a guy who really loves comic books, as I do, and has all the respect and love in the world for Stan Lee, that's about as clear a notice I can offer that you've failed to convince me of anything, except either your gullibility or your intent to make a quick buck off of sadly ignorant people. Well, I don't waste my time with stuff like that. It's not my intention to be offensive to you -- just honest. And in all honesty, you haven't given me anything that I can't immediately dismiss. If you can prove anything at all, than you should know that you've failed miserably to do so thus far -- and that's an honest appraisal from an honest critc.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby Gary » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:54 am

ryguy wrote:What on earth was that manic post all about... For Pete's sake, at least try to focus on one issue at a time. You've just went from DIA to Star Gate to Caryn Anscomb to Agent X to Zero Point to Kit Green to High Freq Grav Wave research all in one fell swoop.

Gary's back.


Yes. And yes. They are all connected, my friend, but I am not (yet) at liberty to tell all. But there is a common thread.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby Gary » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:11 am

James,

Based upon your analysis it is clear (to me) you are have not been fully apprised of the situation.

A few items that may (or may not) illuminate the situation:

Chris Robinson alerts MoD prior to bombing:

UFO files: 'psychic' investigator 'questioned over RAF bomb attack dream'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... dream.html

Police questioned a “psychic” investigator in 1990 after he reported a “strange dream” that a RAF base would be attacked just a few weeks before an actual bomb attack subsequently occurred, the UFO files disclose.

"Agent X" ... aka Richard Dell Jr. ... http://www.aaerc.org/ ... claimed to have 'recruited' Obama energy consultant Susan EIsenhower's daughter for a 'Mars Mission' project, according to her daughter's testimony.

http://www.aaerc.org/news/coal-alternat ... d-in-hand/

Richard Dell Jr.
Richard Dell is the Director of the Appalachia America Energy Research Center (AAERC) in Wise, Virginia. He has over twenty years experience in business development, program management and technology commercialization. He served as a Program Manager for five years at the Advanced Vehicle Research Center (AVRC) that manages the ongoing objectives of AAERC on behalf of the Wise County Industrial Development Authority. A number of recent accomplishments in research and strategy are available to the public at avrc.com, including Department of Energy high compression engine combustion analysis, mobile hydrogen generation/storage. Others include a distance learning laboratory on alternative fuels for the Department of Labor and the National Aerospace Development Center’s “North Carolina Aerospace Workforce Development Strategic Plan”. Prior to coming to AVRC, he worked with IBM, AOL, Electronic Arts (EA), UVa, and Standard & Poors.


Richard Dell who is developing nuclear fusion propulsion is interviewed by Sander Olson
Wed Jan 05 2011 18:22

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/341/455/ ... Olson.html

This technology will change everything. By 2020, we could be actively implementing commercial settlement and/or tourist expeditions to Mars.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby Gary » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:12 am

James, I forgot to add that STAR GATE was declassified by a special Congressional Mandate; not by automatic declassification.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby James Carlson » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:37 am

Gary wrote:James, I forgot to add that STAR GATE was declassified by a special Congressional Mandate; not by automatic declassification.

Did you even read what I wrote? Automatic declassification was cancelled by President Reagan. In its place he instituted the automatic maintenance of classified materials, making declass significantly harder to accomplish. Thats why we have so many legally binding mandates to declassify such materials. As for everything else you've said, there's a particular characteristic common to all of it: it proves nothing.
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Re: "The Weird Desk"?

Postby dazdude » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:14 pm

These documents were really bugging me, for some reason, so I decided to take a closer look at http://www.starpod.org/Slideshow/1011251ss.htm where they were sourced from.


The documents are real - I have a copy form the CIA - these documents are in the Star Gate FOIA archives. There is no reason to believe they were faked and put into the archives.

"Stranger still, government files prove that the US government spent decades exploring the paranormal psychic spying, in an effort to 'know the future' and beat the Russians, in a race to obtain technologies from beyond our world." I think we're expected to actually believe this garbage.

Now this is just a supposition, and I have nothing at all that might prove whether it's true or not, but wouldn't it give his book and research a lot more immediacy and a more disturbing sense of "dark secrets kept in the shadows under the guise of counter-intelligence operations" if the files he used were SECRET files as opposed to unclassified junk files that discussed matters that were never considered very important or even classified to start with?


This is a fact - the documents and statements from many of those involved over the 23+ history of the program show that it existed and its primary aim was to compete with a Russian PSI programme. I have many historical docs and a visual history breakdown on my site : http://www.remoteviewed.com/rvhistorymap.html

I suggest if you are really interested that you read the Paul H Smith book - this is a very accurate historical account of the Military remote viewing program because you are making assumptions that just are not correct and people who were there at the time have accurately recorded what actually happened with all the political, legal and inter agency wrangles over the remote viewing unit.

Unfortunately, until they can prove those abilities exist, anything else is just a waste of time and effort. In my opinion, it's faster, easier, and probably a far more accurate exercise to simply look at the bottom of the page: "Disclaimer: USM/AMP are known to be wrong more often that they are correct.


Hundred of thousands of trial of 30 years have shown an effect that cannot be explained or that isn't a flaw in the set-up of the trial - what more proof is needed? Even at the conclusion of the Star Gate program in the AIR report both the pro and negative analysts agreed there was an effect. Remote viewing was used for 23 years, with continuation of funding and resourced assess every year by scientific and congressional oversight committees and military working groups (all documented) . Goals and milestone had to be reached to get the next years funding. Do you seriously believe that it wasn't proved to have worked and that the measures to get funding were faked or ignored for this 23+ year period, year on year. Some documents here support this: http://www.remoteviewed.com/remote_view ... tary_b.htm

I myself constantly prove month in and month out in blind and public demonstrations that there is an effect and one that can be consistent - you argument is just not informed, the mountain of available evidence and millions of trials prove an RV effect. Small but an effect.

And by the way - i make no money form all my remote viewing work, resources or material. I work at my own expense for services like the U.S police with no payment for my time and resources numbers hundred of hours. My only aim is to share the research and reality that remoet viewing works - not all the time but well enough with some individuals to be of value.
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dazdude
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:23 am
Location: UK

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