Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby Gary » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:29 am

AD, you wrote, "All I see is the Navy and AF had active research programs between 1975 and 1978. Keyword “had”…"

Let's check this memo first, about the 1980s era USDRE (Undersecretary of Defense) program run by Captain Stewart:

"A new player."

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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby Gary » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:42 am

This one identifies Captain Stewart with Office of Naval Intelligence:

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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby Gary » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:56 am

And here you will find that Captain Stewart, ONI, for USDRE program, had a background with the NSC (National Security Council):

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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby Gary » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:58 am

And here is evaluation of operational tasking, by JCS (Joint Chiefs of Staff) among others:

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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby Access Denied » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:39 pm

Thread closed pending further review...

Thread temporarily reopened to give Daz a chance to comment...
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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby dazdude » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:03 am

Gary,
We have communicated and shared info before and I have also commented when time allows here on the forum. I am a long time remote viewer. I have many resources online including many of my person experience in remote viewing. I also am a self styled history buff of remote viewing - recently putting this map online
http://www.remoteviewed.com/rvhistorymap.html
and with my knowledge of the 89,000 Star Gate documents which I have read. I also have an extensive database whereby I can search inside each and every Star gate document for individual words or phrases, and my database also includes hundreds of articles, papers and PEM emails, email list posts from most remote viewing groups going back to 1997 - a vast library of information.

I also regularly write and communicate with the main players like Paul Smith, Lyn buchanan, Ingo swann and many others in this subject on an almost daily basis.

Lets take any and each point or claim you have one by one and assess the situation.

To be open and honest i have to say that As a believer i would love for there to be an active Rv program currently being used. I personally only have seen one small hint that this would be possible (from a quote by Ingo). But this isnt evidence enough for me to make any claims. I'm open to this fact but have not seen any 'real' evidnece to support this theory - but are willing to listen and evaluate any information you want to present here.

So lets have a proper go - where do you want to start.
I would say that from my conversations with all the ex top Star Gate people that there isn't an ongoing PSI program, i have seen no real evidnece of this in the Star Gate archives or else where (bearing in mind we only have 70% of the total archive).

what evidnece can you show me (preferably documented) but I will look at anything - that there is a current PSi or RV program?

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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby dan » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:10 pm

Don't mind me butting in........

My evidence is that the USG/PtB are neither quite as stupid nor quite as incompetent as they often allow themselves to be portrayed.

They would not be so stupid so as to arbitrarily quash a potentially crucial collection modality, simply because Ron Pandolfi once publicly opined that it was not sufficiently reliable.

I know Ron. He's not that stupid either.

What the RU3/4 fail to comprehend is that RV is just one small part of a much larger phenomenology problem. There is a hard core to this problem which contains a very disturbing message. That message is self-concealing, up to a point that is directly linked to the impending global economic/resource crisis.

If you cannot grasp this, then you are clueless in lala-land.
------------------

If truth be known, Gary does not grasp this either.

All of you are haggling and harassing each other over scraps that have fallen off the table, mostly well in the past.

All of you, rather willfully, suppose that you are grappling with the crime/cover-up of the decade or of the century. You think that this is a conventional, human-scale situation.

You cannot be expected to comprehend that you are confronting the mother of all cover-ups. You cannot even begin to imagine that you might be dealing with the self-revealer, who also happens to be the self-concealer.

But don't mind me, I'm just Ron's ol' BBQ-buddy......

.
Last edited by dan on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby Gary » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:19 pm

Hi Daz!

My understanding is NONE of the former (DIA, CIA) remote viewers would have knowledge/access to this program, although according to Chris there were DIA persons involved in (another?) similar (privatized?) effort.

The primary source is NSA. The program is said to be 100 percent NSA persons, and is highly compartmentalized and restricted to NSA employees. The leak presumably was through the academic or other institution (there are two known research centers involved).

Robinson was vetted by NSA source but there is a highly sensitive issue involved. Private message me and I'll send you a link without explanation; you will understand.

NO ONE in STAR GATE would be involved in the NSA effort; it is again STRICTLY NSA ALONE. There may have been some interaction with NSA cut-outs and some of the known players, but that is purely speculation on my part.

Have you tried to trace the non-DIA DoD USDRE program to see where it went?

Jake Stewart's plan is in the files, see http://www.starpod.org/Slideshow/1012011ss.htm

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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby ryguy » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:31 pm

dan wrote:What the RU3/4 fail to comprehend is that RV is just one small part of a much larger phenomenology problem. There is a hard core to this problem which contains a very disturbing message. That message is self-concealing, up to a point that is directly linked to the impending global economic/resource crisis.


That's only true if you're one of those that believes the "messengers."

I for one, do not.
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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby Gary » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:37 pm

Jim Schnabel's account of Ron Pandolfi and the remote viewing program is on page 347-348 of the large paperback edition of his book.

Recall Dan's story of the Ron and Dan and Chris Straub Senate Select Committee on Intelligence discussion of phenomenology?

Thwarted by the DIA, Pandolfi turned to Capitol Hill. In visits to staffers on the intelligence committees, he would ask why they signed off on the SUN STREAK [DIA prior to STAR GATE] budget request.
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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby dan » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:56 pm

ryguy wrote:
dan wrote:What the RU3/4 fail to comprehend is that RV is just one small part of a much larger phenomenology problem. There is a hard core to this problem which contains a very disturbing message. That message is self-concealing, up to a point that is directly linked to the impending global economic/resource crisis.


That's only true if you're one of those that believes the "messengers."

I for one, do not.

Ryan,

Do you really think it's that simple? Are you that simple? Do you think I'm such a simpleton?

Do you fail to comprehend that if there is perceived to be even the strong possibility of even a moderately serious problem, that this problem would have been vetted by a non-random sample of the best minds in the world.

No, my little friend, the 'disturbing message' was not written on the back of an envelope and stuck in somebody's mailbox.

It was not just a note found stuck in the backpack of a 'gone-missing' CIA hiker, who I happened to have lunch with, after the fact.

If it is anything at all, it is the only coherent explanation for a vast array of very disturbing phenomena.

Comprene, Kimosabe?

.
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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby ryguy » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:34 pm

dan wrote:Do you really think it's that simple?


Yes.

Are you that simple?


I suppose it depends on who you ask.

Do you think I'm such a simpleton?


Nope, just deceived.

Do you fail to comprehend that if there is perceived to be even the strong possibility of even a moderately serious problem, that this problem would have been vetted by a non-random sample of the best minds in the world.


"If there is perceived to be..." - I propose that if someone from within the IC felt there was a serious problem, that you would be the last to know.

No, my little friend, the 'disturbing message' was not written on the back of an envelope and stuck in somebody's mailbox.

It was not just a note found stuck in the backpack of a 'gone-missing' CIA hiker, who I happened to have lunch with, after the fact.


Did I say it was?

If it is anything at all, it is the only coherent explanation for a vast array of very disturbing phenomena.

Comprene, Kimosabe?


Nope - the way I view it, it's a deceptive message that plays on the things certain folks (like yourself) would like to believe. I suppose one could say the origins of the message you refer to are as obscure and surreal as just about anything you've ever written.

I suspect most here would laugh their pants off if they knew what "message" you keep referring to but never spell out. You don't spell it out for that very reason. I'm certainly not going to spell it out for you.

Could there be a group of delusional observers even within some government circles that are convinced such a message is real - and disturbing? Sure - fools exist equally both inside and outside of government.

Does that mean the message should be taken seriously? As I said - first you have to believe the messengers in order to take the "message" seriously. And I don't.

Cheers,
-Ry
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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby dazdude » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:35 pm

Dan
They would not be so stupid so as to arbitrarily quash a potentially crucial collection modality, simply because Ron Pandolfi once publicly opined that it was not sufficiently reliable.


If im reading this right ( and pl4ease bear with me) the government psi and rv effort was not stopped because of what Pandolfi said or did - it had a multitude of reasons.

What the RU3/4 fail to comprehend is that RV is just one small part of a much larger phenomenology problem. There is a hard core to this problem which contains a very disturbing message. That message is self-concealing, up to a point that is directly linked to the impending global economic/resource crisis.


I cant comment of your later comments - but yes RV was a small part of a larger problem - especially what the Russians did at first then later on what China was doing in this area.

Gary,
My understanding is NONE of the former (DIA, CIA) remote viewers would have knowledge/access to this program, although according to Chris there were DIA persons involved in (another?) similar (privatized?) effort.

I find it unlikely in this age of leaks like wikleaks that not a single participant in the rv program as any knowledge or has heard any whispers of an ongoing effort. bear in mind there were only a handfull of people who knew how to research RV and even less who can accurately do it (less than 1% of the population).

The primary source is NSA. The program is said to be 100 percent NSA persons, and is highly compartmentalized and restricted to NSA employees. The leak presumably was through the academic or other institution (there are two known research centers involved).

MMM well what evidence is there to back this claim up - paper or documentary evidence not heresay?

NO ONE in STAR GATE would be involved in the NSA effort; it is again STRICTLY NSA ALONE. There may have been some interaction with NSA cut-outs and some of the known players, but that is purely speculation on my part.

Well this could be possible - the Star Gate project was pencilled-in at one stage to be transfered to the NSA if the CIA didn't want it. But what about the ex Star Gate members that were trained NSA agents - wouldnt they know through the grapevine or similar I can name two of these?

Have you tried to trace the non-DIA DoD USDRE program to see where it went?
Jake Stewart's plan is in the files, see http://www.starpod.org/Slideshow/1012011ss.htm


I have seen and read this document - ar you suggesting that documents form 1980s represent an ongoing programe today?

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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby ryguy » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:49 pm

By the way - for those that may not know the history here - Dan has been doing this for well over a decade, and his message hadn't changed a whole lot. It's the same thing he and Rosemary Ellen Guiley have been distributing since 1993 in the "Aquarium Conspiracy". The following was an interesting interaction with Dan described by Vince Johnson - just for some background on Dan for those that may not be aware of the history here.

http://www.think-aboutit.com/ufo/aviary ... uarium.htm

I was intrigued after reading the "Aquarium Memo" because it implied
that the authors had cultivated sources within the intelligence
community. The only question was whether this information was accurate
or bogus. I drafted a response and uploaded it to Don Allen, moderator
for the FIDO UFO conference, requesting that he forward it to Dan
Smith. Several days later, I received the first of many calls from
him.

Since Smith had alluded to his close contacts with the Aviary, most of
my questions centered around this mysterious group of alleged UFO
insiders comprised of scientists, military personnel, and intelligence
analysts. Dan's primary contact with this group is "Pelican" who
reportedly mans the "Weird Desk" (UFOs,etc) at CIA. While Pelican's
main job with the CIA's Directorate of Science and Technology is to
monitor foreign technological developments, Pelican also tracks
millennial/eschatological communities, "entering a twilight zone where
psychic techniques are being generated by humans and other entities,"
says Smith.

According to Smith, UFOs are primarily a psychological/metaphysical
phenomenon which are both preparing us and pressuring us to develop
our own psi abilities. Not that UFOs are a single type of entity,
Smith asserts that there are "powers and principalities" at work --

presumably supernatural entities like angels and demons.

Furthermore, he said that a radical program of Para psychological
research and development is currently underway near Los Alamos, New
Mexico. This group's development of psycho kinesis, and psychotronics
(a term used to denote psychic warfare techniques) represents a danger
of eschatological proportions. "These techniques have been available,
but controlled, throughout history. Now, other entities are forcing
the issue," said Smith.


During the course of our first conversation, Smith was unable to
provide much proof of his claims. He reported that his governmental
sources "hinted at" an eschatological emergency. To prove the evil
intent of the entities involved, he referred to reports of human
mutilations in the Amazon which have been officially attributed to
drug dealers, but according to his sources, were committed by these
evil entities.
When I asked why the CIA was interested in eschatology,
he replied that the ramifications of the eschaton event represented a
serious threat to national security, and thus, fell into the parview
of the intelligence agencies.

Smith also revealed that the eschatological issues he raised related
directly to the Biblical prophecies of the book of Revelations.

I thanked Mr. Smith for the call, and invited him to keep me abreast
of future developments. With the addition of demons, angels, "black
magic," psychotronic technology, and assorted spooks working at cross
purposes, my already strained credulity was pushed a bit further.


In other words - the "urgent crisis" has been going on for apparently, a very long time.
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Re: Beyond the AVIARY: US government paranormal activity

Postby dazdude » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:00 pm

Gary,
have you seen the document:
'Government sponsored research in Psychoenergetics' form the archives - it covers a broad swathe of the history of the entire rv program.

Ok i have reviewed every document in the Star Gate archives that mentioned your Mr Stewart - outline for me what are you saying/calaiming here?

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