Billy Meier / Michael Horn

The ones that didn't get away

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Postby Michael812 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:23 am

Since I'm such a nicely behaved fellow (not violating the rules of the far), let me advise you that I'm here at MY pleasure, not yours, and that I answer questions as I see fit, with the fullest possible explanation and no intention to avoid, deceive, etc.

So, since such well written, honest and forthright disclosure escapes your perception and apppreciation, why not do two things yourself:

1. Provide your own substantiation for your claims that the case is a hoax (surely you can fill a good-sized column with such substantiated, credible proof).

2. Give your readers credit for being able to discern the truthfulness and intention of both the Meier case and my representation of it, as well as the naked agenda that you promote.

I certainly don't expect most people here to agree with me, and some may simply not care to do the necessary thinking. But one thing that I have learned is that when one offers a challenge such as yours, and then demonstrates the inability to comprehend and/or respond to the answer specifically, a certain limit needs be put on the time and energy in attending to further requests such as yours, at least until some demonstration of schloarship, and integrity is convincingly made.
Last edited by Michael812 on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Postby Michael812 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:32 am

Sure, there are a number of things in the Meier case that are "deal breakers" for people. I can't, and don't, say that everythng in the case is true, simply because I can't prove it (most of it has to do with events from the distant past or future). So I say that there is the factual information, i.e. that which I, you, or anybody else can determine to be true by doing the necessary research.

The information that I cannot prove/disprove I call speculative.

Now, as you may know, there have been 21 (documented) assassination attempts on Meier's life (an awful lot of trouble to go through for a "hoaxer", no?). Meier has said that some of his photographic evidence was altered, falsified by other parties, a claim that some people simply want to dismiss without thinking about the possibility that those who haven't succeeded in killing him have tried to destroy him in other ways, not unknown to have occurred to other mere mortals as well.

Because this case involves real people, living real's often messy, just like real life. You will have to weigh the facts, the evidence, etc. in the case and see how it balances out for you. You have to find the truth for yourself, THE TRUTH, not my truth.

Please consider and understand these facts alone:

Meier presented 1,200+ UFO photos, 9 films, 4 sound recordings, 1 video, several metal samples

Scientific experts authenticated his evidence

There are 120 other witnesses
17 (including Meier) took and passed lie detector tests

1 witness is a retired UN diplomat

There are 5 other photographers

No collaborators, model makers, technologies, financial resources, etc. were found

Meier produced over 25,000 pages of information (the prophetic information contained within)

He is a one-armed man, who also was working as a night watchman to support his family and renovating a run down farm house...while doing all of the above (which included on going on hundreds of contacts, often driven to them by witnesses

So, if there are questionable photos in the case, which isn't denied, consider all the factors, among them that the vast, vast majority of the evidence has been shown to be authentic.

Then go back and reread my first column response and see if ALL of this is the fabrication of one man. If you do think so, why not demonstrate your own ability to do it, just to put things in perspective?

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:35 am

Your refusal to answer the question is duly noted. The answer you provided in your earlier post does not, in any way, shape or form answer my question.

If you are going to continue in that vein, please refrain from posting here in the future. The thread will be locked and your posting privilges revoked.

You are the person making these outrageous claims Mr. Horn. It is down to you to answer the criticism thereof.

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Postby Michael812 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:49 am

Just for clarity's sake, are you saying that you will CENSOR and/or remove, prohibit, etc. my posts - despite their being obviously well within the rules of this forum, rather than let your READERS decide?

Are you saying that only an answer that is acceptable to your, obviously, rahter limited understanding is acceptable? I'm unfamilair with the concept of the uninformed, i.e. student, being in the position to demand that the one doing the informing is obligated to lower their standards to suit them.

Care to give me some examples?

I'm sure that you can not only appreciate the rather unsavory smell of CENSORSHIP but the illogic of attempting to tailor every response to every reader.

So, let me suggest that you trust your readers to do their own thinking in this matter. Consider your evasiveness regarding backing up YOUR claims, which are implicit in the placement of this topic in this thread, I'd say that you have some enormous ethical and credibility problems, which would only be compounded, should you unwisely and defiantly pursue such an intellectually dishonest course.

Some people have suggested that there are some rather intense forces opposing Meier and his information, forces that prefer totalitarian enslavement to freedom. Surely, I haven't stumbled upon one of them, have I?

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:56 am

What utter b.s.. You are not prepared to answer ANY question that does not conform to your "way of doing things".

Seriously, if anyone has any doubt as to how this particualr poster "goes about business" on online forums, read the thread at ATS provided on page 1 of this thread.

It will NOT be tolerated here.

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Postby Michael812 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:09 am

Might I also point out that resorting to profanity is not only uncalled for but an indication, certainly in this instance, of intellectual bankruptcy?

Have you considered banning yourself from this forum for the totality of the questionable behavior that you are demonstrating, here and now?

I would vote for leniency, for giving you another chance...IF you can demonstrate that you have some control over yourself here.

Let the other readers have their say.

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:18 am

No, I call it like it is. If "b.s." is too strong a word for you then I apologise. It doesn't change anything though. Attempting to mislead or deceive by talking nonsense is exactly that - BS

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Postby Michael812 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:20 am

Alright this time but please don't let it happen again.

As for the rest of it...let your readers decide.

Postby ryguy » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:27 am

I agree - utter b.s. (from what I understand, not really a profane word in the UK)

Accurately answer the questions Mr. Horn. Tapdancing won't do. And the least you could do is write up some original posts, and not just cut and paste your postings from other forums.

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Postby sandman » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:51 am

If anything is authentic there would be no reason to make even one fake photo.
So whats your take on the dino photos?

Michael812 wrote:
So, if there are questionable photos in the case, which isn't denied, consider all the factors, among them that the vast, vast majority of the evidence has been shown to be authentic.
Last edited by sandman on Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Almeirhria » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:17 am

I'd like to hear more from either side - please keep things going here and if possible no more "fist fights".

-Michael could you try to answer some of the other people's questions please?

-Also could you post any links to help to validate what you've said or give further information about the Meier case?
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Postby Michael812 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:39 pm

Hi Almeirhria,

Regarding links and further info, there are several other related sites linked from, including an online discussion forum solely about the Meier case where tons more info is to be found. The Newsletters, Newsletter Archives, Prophecies and Articles at my site contain plenty of info and links to.

I try to answer all questions, giving priority to those people who are asking questions, as opposed to attacking, dis-informing or making absurd statements, such as that my lengthy response was a cut and paste job rather than the well thought out effort first posted on this forum that it was.

Regarding things like the dino photos, I've never tried to make the case for authenticity based on photos of anything other than the craft, since virtually all the other categories can be subject to dismissal simply because there's no real way to prove them. There are specific protocols and standards for testing the UFO photos that resulted in the authentication of Meier's UFO photos. And to date, NO skeptics, who claim to have duplicated Meier's UFO photos (as opposed to the "effect", i.e. an object in the sky) have put theirs up for the same testing. So, when we find ourselves here in this "hoax" category, one really has to laugh at the agenda of the moderators. No problem, Meier's faced much worse in the way of attacks and, like this one...they all ultimately seem to backfire.

The truth ALWAYS wins out.

But let me go back to the dino photos. Let's assume they're hoaxed, do we know that Meier hoaxed them? Why would he, with 1,200 genuine UFO photos to his credit and all the rest of the physical evidence? So, while people scream "prove the photos are real!", I guess we could say prove that Meier hoaxed them. He says that many of his photos were stolen, manipulated, etc. by unknown people and by people like Kal Korff, who hoaxed them to appear as if Meier did!

So, with all the intrigue and drama here, people just have to weigh the pros and cons to decide for themselves. And, if people want to be honest with themselves, they should consider if they've ever had access to, and read, this much info on anyone or thing that they ever voted for. Do they know as much about the person who does their taxes, fixes their car, teaches their children, etc. as they can and do know about this one-armed Swiss farmer and the evidence for his controversial claims?

Do you know, for certain, that every (most) things you read in your history books are true or a lie? How do you know since you have less access to most of it than you do to information from and about a man living today, as well as many of the still living witnesses, etc.? Have you held all - or any - of these things and people up to the same scrutiny as you do, and should do, with Meier? If you haven't, why not, aren't they all at least as important to thoroughly check out as the Meier case?

Finally, ask yourself what it would mean to you if the case is a hoax...or if it is real.

Postby Shadow Watcher » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:26 pm doesnt work. is there a functioning site that has the same info?
edit: Never mind...I found it.
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Postby Michael812 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:33 pm

Try it's there - bigtime!

Postby dragonfire » Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:55 pm

Mr. Horn,

Are you here just to promote YOUR site :?: You never really answer any questions, just try to get everyone to go to some other site. Whats up with that :?:
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