Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

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Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby m0r1arty » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:34 am

There appears to be a bit of a palaver going on just now about a couple of ice meteorites that allegedly contain life not from this Earth in them.

The troubling links to this truth??

Here, here, here and here.

Now the fact that the all come from the same pay-for-press-release source here means nought to anyone who believes beyond need for proof.

This is someone buying their own publicity and if you read their story it has all the classic hallmarks of a hoax from beginning to (current) end.

As currently is, in a Ramada hotel in Michigan on 30th November 2010 a man called Duane Snyder is going to announce, no less, the discovery of ET life. ET life at a microscopic level - which was discovered in an ice meteorite broken into three parts outside his house in 2000.

The fact that he sells photos of these organisms, doesn't refund upon them, has dealt with a 'cavalier' scientist who stole/destroyed the second core of one of these meteorites, admits to not having the correct tools or experience to properly explore within the scientific domain the constituents of these 'meteorites', has calculated where they come from (Enceladus, a moon of Saturn), offer $10K to be proven wrong and have bought their own press release surely means that this is all legit...eh?

Don't take my word for it, read it yourself here or let me cite some of it below:

Duane P. Snyder is the person who found and preserved the three pieces of this ice meteorite. Duane then went on over a period of ten years to have the particles found in the meltwater of the Ice Meteorite analyzed. In doing so Duane was amazed to find life forms.

The analysis of the particles prove that the ice is an ice meteorite.

Even though it can be said that these Ice Meteorites may be contaminated with Earth life forms because the ices hit the pavement, it can be proved that the life forms found in the meltwater of these Ices are extra-terrestrial life forms in a number of ways. The first method of proof can be age dating, since the life forms have been frozen in ice, they may be very old, perhaps hundrens or thousands of years old, carbon dating was looked at, but there needed to be larger amounts of carbon to do this analysis. If the life forms were older than the pavement that the ices impacted, it would have proven them to be extra-terrestrial. Another method of proving that these life forms are extra-terrestrial is by DNA Analysis. We do not have this expertise, but we will pursue this course of analysis as the opportunity arises. A third method of proving that these life forms are extra-terrestrial is by removing the outer ice and examining the ice core of one of the two large pieces of this Ice meteorite. If there are any life forms in the core, they did not get there due to contamination of hitting the Earth and therefore are extra-terrestrial life forms. The ice core of Ice meteorite number two was lost due to the cavalier ignorance of a trusted Scientist. We did not want to lose the ice core of Ice meteorite number one. We choose not to melt Ice Meteorite number one in order to prevent the loss of valuable information and knowledge. We admit we do not have the tools, expertise, or facilities to accomplish the best analysis of these ice meteorites.

1) It is our opinion that the ice meteorite may be from Saturn's moon Enceladus. A gas analysis of the gases in the core of Ice meteorite number two was accomplished in the year 2001. The results of this gas analysis very nearly match the results found in NASA's Cassini spacecraft's fly-through of the ice/water geyser plumes of Saturn's moon Enceladus on october 9, 2008. Since our gas analysis does indicate some argon gases it matches NASA analysis of the water/ice plumes of Saturn's moon Enceladus. Our first gas analysis results is now disputed by the Scientist who performed the gas analysis, the absence or presence of oxygen is his contention, claiming that later he found some evidence of oxygen being present in his mass spectrometer while the readout does not indicate any oxygen. He does not dispute that gases were found in the ice meteorite, and it is the other gases and their relative ratio's to each other that match NASA's gas analysis of the plumes of Enceladus.

2) It is our opinion that these photos are photos of anaerobic extra-terrestrial sea life forms and pieces of extra-terrestrial sea life forms.

3) It is our opinion that hydrothermo vents may exist at the bottom of an ocean covered by ice on Saturn's moon Enceladus and that these hydrothermo vents provide the necessary conditions for these extraterrestrial sea life forms to exist.

4) We provide photos of the three pieces of the Ice meteorite, particles and life forms found in the meltwater of Ice meteorite number 2. 5) We provide analysis reports of the particles found in the meltwater of the Ice Meteorite number 2.

6) We will provide updates and identifications as we can.

7) We provide 2 SNYDER CHALLENGES so that others may have the opportunity to prove us wrong.

OUR MISSIOM is to bring to the publics attention the NEWS of this Amazing, Fortunate, Valuable, Informative Find. IT IS THE ROSETTA STONE OF LIFE.


Now, of course, this is making the rounds in all of the whack-job forums and is getting the loonies into a real palooza but it boils down to one man, a claim, improper tools, wild speculation about its origins, the paranormal and off course (ding, ding, ding!) you got it: Money!!

So whilst I do indeed hope that a Joe Schmo has proof of extraterrestrial life and is going to display it, and it's irrefutable evidence, to the public - part of me is saying seen this before, I'll see it again.

So RU members - what say you??!?

-m0r
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Re: Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby Slippery Jim » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:04 am

I say he should learn how to spell 'hydrothermal' correctly before he expects anyone to take him seriously.
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Re: Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby Why Not? » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:43 am

M0r1arty.....

I had a quick look around for "Dr Albert Schnieders".

He does not appear to be preeminent in the field of microbiology, with all Google searches looping back to the release other than 1 reference to him as a member of a "materials science" group.

If you want to e-mail him directly with any questions, please see the link below:

http://www2.avs.org/chapters/hudsonmohawk/officers.html

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Re: Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby chrLz » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:48 pm

Slippery Jim wrote:I say he should learn how to spell 'hydrothermal' correctly before he expects anyone to take him seriously.

Also:
hundrens
october (capitalise)
MISSIOM
publics (apostrophe)

and a few grammar errors - I suspect he didn't pass report-writing...

Anyways, I was deeply disturbed to find his e-commerce isn't working!! Dammit, I was so keen. I think we should all write complaining emails to him, pointing out how eager we were to buy his stuff, but were foiled and will now never return.
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Re: Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby Tim Hebert » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:40 pm

m0r1arty wrote:Even though it can be said that these Ice Meteorites may be contaminated with Earth life forms because the ices hit the pavement, it can be proved that the life forms found in the meltwater of these Ices are extra-terrestrial life forms in a number of ways. The first method of proof can be age dating, since the life forms have been frozen in ice, they may be very old, perhaps hundrens or thousands of years old, carbon dating was looked at, but there needed to be larger amounts of carbon to do this analysis. If the life forms were older than the pavement that the ices impacted, it would have proven them to be extra-terrestrial. Another method of proving that these life forms are extra-terrestrial is by DNA Analysis. We do not have this expertise, but we will pursue this course of analysis as the opportunity arises.


How were these samples obtained? Did they rule out ice blockage from a commercial aircraft, ie, frozen water from an airliner's toilet system, this does happen on occasion, then expect to find E. coli, C. diff and a variety of others. It amazes me that one can draw any scientific conclusions, let alone speculations, that the samples came from one of Saturn's moons. Why not from one of the Jovian moons? Anyways, good choice to hold a presser in a Ramada, slightly more up-scale than Motel 6.

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Re: Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby Access Denied » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:59 am

m0r1arty wrote:So RU members - what say you??!?

Good call, clearly a scam...

The Snyder Challenges
We are putting our money were our mouth is.

1) The Snyder Challenge 1 is a promise to pay $10,000 to the first person, team, or group that can find or create (and provide to us) particles indentical in shape and elemental make up as the three particles mentioned in the analysis reports numbers 1 and 2. We believe that these particles are extra-solar particles formed from the inhomogenous condensing of gases of a supernova, are not common to any particle found on Earth, and may be the oldest particles known to man. Particles in our possession or having been in our possession are excluded from this challenge and particles summitted must have a valid history of location and possession.

Without access to the original particles the original analysis can't be confirmed to be correct and even if the particles aren't extraterrestrial in origin, duplication seems unlikely.

2) Snyder Challenge 2 is a promise to pay $5,000 to the first person, team, or group that can provide proof and identify the terrestrial life form from which the pentagon shaped Boney Structure (seen in photo 1) is a part of. We believe that this Boney Structure is debris from an extra-terrestrial life form.

Here's the "full size" photo...

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-1289242734 ... 132_224018

Again, one would have to have access to the sample for analysis.

Not to mention "ice meteorites" are likely impossible… as Tim notes, more likely the organisms are rejects from somebody’s digestive tract. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_ice_(aircraft)
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Re: Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby jeddyhi » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:27 pm

Though the concept of an 'Ice Meteorite' seems unlikely, I did find this page from NASA's JPL website concerning the possible discovery in China of.......you guessed it, an ice meteorite.

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/news56.html

The information is from 1995.

In my opinion, further research is needed before labeling this recent story of an ice meteorite containing evidence of ET biological life as a hoax. Sure, there is a possibility that this ice chunk is terrestrial in nature but scientific research should be able to confirm that hypothesis.

Overall, I find the story intriguing and needing confirmation one way or the other.
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Re: Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby m0r1arty » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:03 pm

Hey jeddyhi!

Whilst the story from the NASA website (Which is a direct rip from a Reuters story) is interesting (and contains good ol' Prof Wang of misdirected Purple Mountain Observatory fame being cited by the highly dubious Xinhua news agency - yet again!!) it does conclude:

Further tests will involve closer inspection of the molecular and atomic structure of the ice. Experts want to analyse the ice for isotopes and cosmic dust, Wang said.

Consultations with the International Meteorite Council may also be necessary, he added.


And that was 15 years ago.

So...

How long does it take for the scientific community to get together on this over some guy who found ice on the pavement outside his house?

-m0r
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Re: Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby jeddyhi » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:59 pm

Hi mOr1arty,

I found this PDF file that discusses the plausibility of ice meteorites. Their existence is indeed unlikely for a number of different factors. Interesting read.

http://hyperion.cc.uregina.ca/~astro/Ice_Mets.pdf

And here is another article which references the China 'Ice Meteorite' story. With no mention of the analytical results all these years later, the author concludes that the China Ice must not have been from space.

http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/geoscient ... e4329.html

The more I dig into the subject, the more unlikely the whole premise becomes! #-o
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Re: Ice Meteorite containing Extraterrestrial life forms.

Postby Arbitrageur » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:30 pm

jeddyhi wrote:Hi mOr1arty,

I found this PDF file that discusses the plausibility of ice meteorites. Their existence is indeed unlikely for a number of different factors. Interesting read.

http://hyperion.cc.uregina.ca/~astro/Ice_Mets.pdf
That's an excellent paper which concludes: "In conclusion, from an atmospheric interaction and a solar system dynamics perspective, I would argue that it is not prudent to accept the idea that ice-meteorites exist. The origin of the large ice chunks that have fallen to the ground must lie somewhere within and not beyond the Earth’s atmosphere. "

The author allows for the possibility something like the 1908 Tunguska event, which made an explosion 1000 times as powerful as the Hiroshima bomb, may have allowed an ice meteorite to hit the ground, so my guess is if an ice meteorite hit the Earth, that might have been the last time it happened, in 1908 in Tunguska.

When an explosion 1000 times the size of the Hiroshima bomb goes off, people would tend to notice. So in the absence of a large scale event like that, an ice meteorite seems very unlikely.

Big chunks of ice fall from planes more frequently than I thought.
http://www.channel3000.com/travelgetawa ... etail.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -flat.html

However there may be a simpler explanation for the ice found on the road that Snyder found: It could have just fallen off a truck, since he didn't even see it fall from the sky. At least the people with holes in their roofs where the ice came in, can prove the ice fell from the sky! ;)
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