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Postby dazdude » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:30 pm

Mike,
well if you wnat some jiucy docs for this period let me know - i have a fair bit otf the 89,000 documents in a databse which in date and project order and i can search inside of every document for single word references and alike.

all the best...

daz
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Postby MikeJamieson » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:58 pm

dazdude wrote:Mike,
well if you wnat some jiucy docs for this period let me know - i have a fair bit otf the 89,000 documents in a databse which in date and project order and i can search inside of every document for single word references and alike.

all the best...

daz


Thankyou!!!

BTW, you've clarified something for me already. Something I didn't pick up
really elsewhere.......that Price at the end was working directly with the CIA
(and not out of a SRI contract).
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Postby dazdude » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:38 pm

yep but it didnt last long.
A doc I read actually says Hammid and Swann turned them down but Price didnt. What we have read and heard form other people at the time showed that Pat Price did like to go for monetary projects and maybe this was a decider.

All the best...

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Postby Gary » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:24 pm

MikeJamieson wrote:
dazdude wrote:Mike,
well if you wnat some jiucy docs for this period let me know - i have a fair bit otf the 89,000 documents in a databse which in date and project order and i can search inside of every document for single word references and alike.

all the best...

daz


Thankyou!!!

BTW, you've clarified something for me already. Something I didn't pick up
really elsewhere.......that Price at the end was working directly with the CIA
(and not out of a SRI contract).


There is a hand written note in the SG files from Hal Puthoff about Ingo Swann's clearance, and earlier documents that show SRI subjects were unwitting of CIA involvement:

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/ingo_swann_files.htm
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Postby MikeJamieson » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:19 pm

Thankyou very much, Gary. BTW, you may want to put plastic sheets
over this page (lots of drooling expected from me!):

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/stargate.htm
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rough draft for next section of #3

Postby MikeJamieson » Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:22 am

Again, posted for corrections, feedback, suggested additions.

Pat Price's participation in RV efforts changed directions when he began
working with the CIA directly, in the months just prior to his unexpected
death in Las Vegas in July 1975. Not long after Price died (an event about
which some people have questions), the CIA dropped out of the RV
business. Being under fire in Congressional hearings over past questionable
practices, they were reluctant to hold onto what might be controversial.
Also very important: there was strong disagreement within the CIA over
using remote viewing. Many there felt it was neither real nor potentially
useful. Paul Smith reports in his book Reading The Enemies' Mind
("chronicling America's psychic espionage program") that "even though
a few in-house CIA employees had shown some success with remote
viewing, and Price himself was now working exclusively for the agency
and coming up with results corroborated by other intelligence information
the CIA had already obtained, this ongoing debate contributed to
the termination of CIA involvement after Price's sudden death in July
1975" [p.76, paperback edition]

A year before he died, Pat Price was still working for SRI, though, and
that's when he was given the task of remote viewing a research and
development facility in the old Soviet Union (near Semipalatinsk, Kazakhstan).
After receiving the coordinates (on July 19, 1974), Price reported
his impressions of that location from the several remote viewing sessions
he did over the following two weeks. Some of his descriptions were
confirmed by satellite imagery: a large gantry crane that rode on rails
and that passed over a 2-3 story building and the presence of gas
cylinders. But not confirmed for another few years were 60 foot diameter
steel spheres that Price described being assembled.

The story of this particular remote viewing impressed many in the
intelligence community, but by July 1975 many others there felt
that the fact Price produced a lot of bad data and otherwise descriptions
that could be neither evaluated or confirmed made RV useless as
an intelligence tool. For example, this was the conclusion of the officers
at the CIA's Office of Research and Development when the CIA's
involvement with RV ended in 1975.

The SRI team spent its last stretch of time under CIA contract partially
examining the nature of RV phenomena (and seeing what factors
enhanced successful use). But, they more importantly focused on remote
viewing's potential uses. For example, a series of double blind experiments,
with 12 remote viewers targeting 7 pieces of instruments and machinery,
yielded some very detailed and accurate sketches.

Upcoming: RV Develops, Training Programs and Government Programs;
also, articles on the RV Method.
MikeJamieson
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FULL DRAFT (so far)

Postby MikeJamieson » Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:25 am

The focus for the first few months of SRI's initial 8 month long study
for the CIA was on PK effects, but with minimal success (and a lack of
consistency) in the results, SRI experimentation refocused on the potentials
of RV for use by their current client. It was not clear at first how remote viewing,
in the way they had been experimenting with it, would be of use to any
intelligence agencies. The most typical way they had been practicing it
was to send "outbounder" teams to a site which the viewer would then
focus on (via the presence of the team). The group at SRI was mulling
this over with only a short time left on the initial CIA contract (May '73 to Aug. '73,
with the contract having begun in January). A visitor to SRI, Jacques Vallee,
suggested a simple solution: "All you really need is an address."

Swann in turn suggested the use of geographic coordinates, something
Puthoff and Targ thought didn't make sense due to the fact that coordinates
were artificial and abstract representations. But, preliminary experiements
were satisfactory enough and the CIA itself offered coordinates to a wooded
area in the hills of West Virginia. So far as the CIA person offering the
coordinates knew, there was only a vacation cabin at the site.

Ingo Swann and another man named Pat Price were tasked with
remote viewing this location. (Price had recently heard about the
project and, feeling he had a psychic aptitude, volunteered for experiments.)
Both Swann and Price described a partially underground military like
facility not far from the cabin! (Confirmed in followup visits and consultations.)
Not only were the descriptions of the site (again, unknown even to the
provider of the coordinates) accurate, but the CIA's project manager
for the SRI contract, Dr. Ken Kress, noted: "Pat Price, who had no
military or intelligence background, provided a list of project titles
associated with current and past activities including one of extreme
sensitivity. Also, the code-name of the site was provided. Other information
concerning the physical layout of the site was accurate."
[pages 72-73, Ken Kress, "Parapsychology in Intelligence: A Personal
Review and Conclusions", STUDIES IN INTELLIGENCE, Washington, DC,
CIA, Winter 1977.]

Other double-blind coordinates were tasked for the remote viewers
before the CIA contract ended in August 1973 and since the results
were good overall, CIA support for this research at SRI continued
until 1975.

Ingo Swann would take a year long break from this study, but in addition
to Pat Price, others would become involved: Hella Hammid (professional
photographer), Duane Elgin (SRI employee), Gary Langford and Keith
Harary..............................
[to be continued]




Pat Price's participation in RV efforts changed directions when he began
working with the CIA directly, in the months just prior to his unexpected
death in Las Vegas in July 1975. Not long after Price died (an event about
which some people have questions), the CIA dropped out of the RV
business. Being under fire in Congressional hearings over past questionable
practices, they were reluctant to hold onto what might be controversial.
Also very important: there was strong disagreement within the CIA over
using remote viewing. Many there felt it was neither real nor potentially
useful. Paul Smith reports in his book Reading The Enemies' Mind
("chronicling America's psychic espionage program") that "even though
a few in-house CIA employees had shown some success with remote
viewing, and Price himself was now working exclusively for the agency
and coming up with results corroborated by other intelligence information
the CIA had already obtained, this ongoing debate contributed to
the termination of CIA involvement after Price's sudden death in July
1975" [p.76, paperback edition]

A year before he died, Pat Price was still working for SRI, though, and
that's when he was given the task of remote viewing a research and
development facility in the old Soviet Union (near Semipalatinsk, Kazakhstan).
After receiving the coordinates (on July 19, 1974), Price reported
his impressions of that location from the several remote viewing sessions
he did over the following two weeks. Some of his descriptions were
confirmed by satellite imagery: a large gantry crane that rode on rails
and that passed over a 2-3 story building and the presence of gas
cylinders. But not confirmed for another few years were 60 foot diameter
steel spheres that Price described being assembled.

The story of this particular remote viewing impressed many in the
intelligence community, but by July 1975 many others there felt
that the fact Price produced a lot of bad data and otherwise descriptions
that could be neither evaluated or confirmed made RV useless as
an intelligence tool. For example, this was the conclusion of the officers
at the CIA's Office of Research and Development when the CIA's
involvement with RV ended in 1975.

The SRI team spent its last stretch of time under CIA contract partially
examining the nature of RV phenomena (and seeing what factors
enhanced successful use). But, they more importantly focused on remote
viewing's potential uses. For example, a series of double blind experiments,
with 12 remote viewers targeting 7 pieces of instruments and machinery,
yielded some very detailed and accurate sketches.

Upcoming: RV Develops, Training Programs and Government Programs;
also, articles on the RV Method.
[/quote]
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Re: rough draft for next section of #3

Postby Gary » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:40 pm

MikeJamieson wrote:Again, posted for corrections, feedback, suggested additions.


You might want to have a look at the GELLER / SWANN reflections memo:

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/sri_international.htm

Insight into the CIA's thought process re: covert nature of their collection effort.
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Re: rough draft for next section of #3

Postby Gary » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:45 pm

MikeJamieson wrote:Again, posted for corrections, feedback, suggested additions.


You might want to have a look at the GELLER / SWANN reflections memo:

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/sri_international.htm

Insight into the CIA's thought process re: covert nature of their collection effort.
Gary
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Postby MikeJamieson » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:00 pm

Thanks, Gary. Puthoff, etc. did have Geller in for testing back in 1972 (I think
that's what the year was.) I'll take a closer look at the paper later.

So far as where part three is at, it's ending is in 1975, when SRI begans a relationship with Graff at Wright Patterson and beginnings of contracts with the Army, DIA, etc. are just around the corner. To end this article, I guess I will be needing a transitional description of the beginning contacts with Graff?????
Or, maybe I should end it where it's at right now????? It's all very general
and brief. The story is very involved, of course. And, I'm omitting a lot of details.
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Postby ryguy » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:05 pm

MikeJamieson wrote:To end this article, I guess I will be needing a transitional description of the beginning contacts with Graff?????
Or, maybe I should end it where it's at right now????? It's all very general
and brief. The story is very involved, of course. And, I'm omitting a lot of details.


Mike - don't end it there. I believe those years are the most critical ones to understanding everything that has come afterwards.

We did a great deal of research in this time period (1972-1980) related to Puthoff and the Wright-Patterson work. Much of this is related to later UFO stories/scams that have subsequently been perpetrated onto the UFO community.

What many people don't realize is that there is a very tight connection between the beginnings of the RV-research, and the Serpo/MJ12 style UFO mythology that was born in the early 80's.

I know I've promised you more details, and immediately after hitting submit, I will be sending you some data that will help you to follow-up and continue on from this point. However - I have to warn you that it isn't at all what you would expect.

More on the way via email.

-Ry
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Complete Draft here

Postby MikeJamieson » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:48 pm

part three
"All You Really Need Is An Address"

The focus for the first few months of SRI's initial 8 month long study
for the CIA was on PK effects, but with minimal success (and a lack of
consistency) in the results, SRI experimentation refocused on the potentials
of RV for use by their current client. It was not clear at first how remote viewing,
in the way they had been experimenting with it, would be of use to any
intelligence agencies. The most typical way they had been practicing it
was to send "outbounder" teams to a site which the viewer would then
focus on (via the presence of the team). The group at SRI was mulling
this over with only a short time left on the initial CIA contract (May '73 to Aug. '73,
with the contract having begun in January). A visitor to SRI, Jacques Vallee,
suggested a simple solution: "All you really need is an address."

Swann in turn suggested the use of geographic coordinates, something
Puthoff and Targ thought didn't make sense due to the fact that coordinates
were artificial and abstract representations. But, preliminary experiements
were satisfactory enough and the CIA itself offered coordinates to a wooded
area in the hills of West Virginia. So far as the CIA person offering the
coordinates knew, there was only a vacation cabin at the site.

Ingo Swann and another man named Pat Price were tasked with
remote viewing this location. (Price had recently heard about the
project and, feeling he had a psychic aptitude, volunteered for experiments.)
Both Swann and Price described a partially underground military like
facility not far from the cabin! (Confirmed in followup visits and consultations.)
Not only were the descriptions of the site (again, unknown even to the
provider of the coordinates) accurate, but the CIA's project manager
for the SRI contract, Dr. Ken Kress, noted: "Pat Price, who had no
military or intelligence background, provided a list of project titles
associated with current and past activities including one of extreme
sensitivity. Also, the code-name of the site was provided. Other information
concerning the physical layout of the site was accurate."
[pages 72-73, Ken Kress, "Parapsychology in Intelligence: A Personal
Review and Conclusions", STUDIES IN INTELLIGENCE, Washington, DC,
CIA, Winter 1977.]

Other double-blind coordinates were tasked for the remote viewers
before the CIA contract ended in August 1973 and since the results
were good overall, CIA support for this research at SRI continued
until 1975.

Ingo Swann would take a year long break from this study, but in addition
to Pat Price, others would become involved: Hella Hammid (professional
photographer), Duane Elgin (SRI employee), Gary Langford and Keith
Harary.

Pat Price's participation in RV efforts changed directions when he began
working with the CIA directly, in the months just prior to his unexpected
death in Las Vegas in July 1975. Not long after Price died (an event about
which some people have questions), the CIA dropped out of the RV
business. Being under fire in Congressional hearings over past questionable
practices, they were reluctant to hold onto what might be controversial.
Also very important: there was strong disagreement within the CIA over
using remote viewing. Many there felt it was neither real nor potentially
useful. Paul Smith reports in his book Reading The Enemies' Mind
("chronicling America's psychic espionage program") that "even though
a few in-house CIA employees had shown some success with remote
viewing, and Price himself was now working exclusively for the agency
and coming up with results corroborated by other intelligence information
the CIA had already obtained, this ongoing debate contributed to
the termination of CIA involvement after Price's sudden death in July
1975" [p.76, paperback edition]

A year before he died, Pat Price was still working for SRI, though, and
that's when he was given the task of remote viewing a research and
development facility in the old Soviet Union (near Semipalatinsk, Kazakhstan).
After receiving the coordinates (on July 19, 1974), Price reported
his impressions of that location from the several remote viewing sessions
he did over the following two weeks. Some of his descriptions were
confirmed by satellite imagery: a large gantry crane that rode on rails
and that passed over a 2-3 story building and the presence of gas
cylinders. But not confirmed for another few years were 60 foot diameter
steel spheres that Price described being assembled.

The story of this particular remote viewing impressed many in the
intelligence community, but by July 1975 many others there felt
that the fact Price produced a lot of bad data and otherwise descriptions
that could be neither evaluated or confirmed made RV useless as
an intelligence tool. For example, this was the conclusion of the officers
at the CIA's Office of Research and Development when the CIA's
involvement with RV ended in 1975.

The SRI team spent its last stretch of time under CIA contract partially
examining the nature of RV phenomena (and seeing what factors
enhanced successful use). But, they more importantly focused on remote
viewing's potential uses. For example, a series of double blind experiments,
with 12 remote viewers targeting 7 pieces of instruments and machinery,
yielded some very detailed and accurate sketches.

At this stage, Paul Smith reports in his history that some key conclusions and
observations had been made by those involved in the SRI study. He also
notes that at this point "it was also just two years into the program, and
many lessons about tasking, analysis, and reporting of remote viewing data
were yet to be learned." [p.68, paperback edition]. So far as some of the
understandings acquired from the study, Smith summarizes some, like
these key points: (1) concrete descriptions more accurate than labeling
and analysis; (2) using several remote viewers for a single task improved
quality of the final data; (3) anybody could be taught RV; and, (4) RV improves
with practice.

Some of what's next:

Though the CIA ended its involvement with RV in the summer of 1975, later
in the year SRI's research effort would be sustained by funding from the Air Force
Foreign Technology Division at Wright Patterson. This came about through
the interest of a civilian employee there, Dale Graff.

Then, two years later an Army Lt. ("Skip" Atwater) begins forming an Army RV
program at the direction of Army Assistant Chief of Staff Intelligence, Maj. Gen.
Edmund Thompson.

The DIA assumes control of the program.

Early 1980s, the remote viewing procedure is structured and training CRV to
government remote viewers begins.

The Remote Viewing process (as commonly taught).

Questions, controversies, debates.
Last edited by MikeJamieson on Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MikeJamieson » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:55 pm

Thankyou (for the pending reports on this). Looks like I've taken the story
right up to the point you're talking about. (Just before the involvement with
Wright Patterson.)

We did a great deal of research in this time period (1972-1980) related to Puthoff and the Wright-Patterson work. Much of this is related to later UFO stories/scams that have subsequently been perpetrated onto the UFO community.

What many people don't realize is that there is a very tight connection between the beginnings of the RV-research, and the Serpo/MJ12 style UFO mythology that was born in the early 80's.

I know I've promised you more details, and immediately after hitting submit, I will be sending you some data that will help you to follow-up and continue on from this point. However - I have to warn you that it isn't at all what you would expect.

More on the way via email.

MikeJamieson
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Posts: 564
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Location: Ukiah, CA

Postby dazdude » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:47 pm

What many people don't realize is that there is a very tight connection between the beginnings of the RV-research, and the Serpo/MJ12 style UFO mythology that was born in the early 80's.


I look forward to seeing this - i know a fair bit about the 80-90's ufo era.

daz
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Postby Gary » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:08 am

MikeJamieson wrote:Thankyou (for the pending reports on this). Looks like I've taken the story right up to the point you're talking about. (Just before the involvement with Wright Patterson.)


http://starpod.org/Ingo%20ESP%20caper%20memo.gif

http://starpod.org/ingo_swann_files.htm

Also:

My story "To the Moon and Back ..." about Ingo Swann's book, picks up around the time of the USAF interest following the CIA effort at SRI. There are documents of interest linked to the main body of the story:

http://starpod.org/moon_and_back.htm

http://starpod.org/medical_tests.htm

MOON BASE: OCULAR LUNA

Swann had quickly agreed to accept $1000-a-day compensation to remote view the moon.

Axelrod tasked Ingo with a series of moon coordinates. Unknown to Swann, the targeted moon coordinates, about ten different locations, would bring him mind-to-mind with what he soon realized was an unearthly extraterrestrial presence.

Swann 'saw' with his mind's eye craters in darkness, and decided that he must be seeing the hidden side of the moon, the side that always faces away from the Earth. Upon achieving psychic 'contact' with the lunar surface, Swann first came upon what looked like trails of tractor-tread marks. Confusion set in until Swann realized that he was 'seeing' intelligent activity and structures on the moon.

In the depths of a crater he viewed a green, dusty haze lit by banks of artificial lights mounted on very large, tall towers. Swann was stunned by the realization that 'someone' or 'something' appeared, under the aegis of his mind's eye, to be building a base on the moon. He had been inducted into an interplanetary operation and brought to Mr. Axelrod's underground facility by the need to monitor extraterrestrial activities in an unconventional way. Swann decided that Axelrod and company had been given the task of psychically spying on the alien moon base because the extraterrestrials had been less than friendly about conventional human curiosity.

When Ingo sensed that he had been psychically 'spotted' by two of the humanoid-looking inhabitants of the moon base, he questioned whether or not he was at risk.

Axelrod was less than forthcoming.

"I spent the next few months wondering if the ET's were going to find me and zap my brains out of existence."

After being released from his work at the underground facility, Swann returned home and sketched what he could recall of the Axelrod sessions, and locked them away until the late 1990's. They are reproduced in his book. The sketch is dated March 14, 1975.
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