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Postby zplix » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:46 pm

great reply.

Sorry you view the debate between me and Ray adversarial,,,for me atleast, some of it is harmless ribbing.

What you say about Greer I got to feel too! In fact you can see me in action at Above Top Secret Forums. A thread a started there called 'Zooming Dr Steven Greer'

He seems to have 'gone' all New Age. Setting himself up as some meditation guru that for big sums of money hands out 'ambassador of the universe' certificates.
Although i haven't bought his latest book. It is full of unverifiable outlandish claims that only the gullible could surely buy, and they DO!

So how does that effect the integrity of the Disclosure Project. Is it all a psyop? is is partial psyop. How are we gonna get to the bottom of it?
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Postby murnut » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:44 pm

zplix wrote:great reply.

So how does that effect the integrity of the Disclosure Project. Is it all a psyop? is is partial psyop. How are we gonna get to the bottom of it?


I view the Disclosure Project as stillborn.

Someone else must take the reigns

Could these be the ones?

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/index.html

I am attending a conference in NYC tomorrow night and hope to meet
Leslie Kean

Lookie here...mainstream coverage
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... &cset=true
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Postby Access Denied » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:36 am

murnut wrote:Sorry to jump in, but these dont look like ballons to me.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/mexicanmilitary.html

Hi murmut, those don’t look like balloons to me either. :) That video had me going too for a while until I read this convincing explanation that they were… get this… oil platform flares! lol

The Mexican Air Force UFO Affair:
Aliens, Ball Lightning, or Flares?

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/04-07-24.html

[check out the link... there's some overlay images of the location of the oil platforms... they match pefectly and it looks like they're flying because the camera is zoomed in from a distance and clouds pass between]

The only thing shocking about this case to me now was finding out Mexico has an Air Force... who knew? :shock:

zplix wrote:errr what you mean a) I am 'disrupting' the forum? What you mean that i shouldn't have a different view of reality than you, what?

Different views of reality are welcome and encouraged here so I’m going to have to go with a)

zplix wrote:and what do you mean you will 'act accordingly' if you see that i have 'disrupted' the forum, by questioning someone's view of reality?

There’s nothing inherently wrong with questioning someone’s view of reality so I can’t really answer that question now can I? :D

zplix wrote:before i lift a finger i wanna get this ...threat clear? and no, that threat is not 'cool'!

What’s not cool is avoiding questions from a member of this forum who chose to engage you in a discussion about a topic you brought up by trying to change the subject and ignoring them. That might be a tactic you can get away with on ATS but we don’t encourage that kind of behavior here. What is cool is saying “I don’t know", or “you might have a point” or better yet… cite some relevant supporting evidence that explains why you don’t agree with them. Who knows… if you’ve done your homework right you just might change somebody’s mind. If not, you might learn something new...

Zep Tepi wrote:There were two sightings on March 13th 1997. A lot of people, skeptics and believers alike tend to mix up the two sightings and merge them into one.

You’re right, I should have mentioned that if you haven’t read it yet, Tim’s article at the link I gave earlier makes a fairly convincing case IMHO that the first sighting was most likely a formation of aircraft at high altitude…

THE V-FORMATION OF LIGHTS AND MY ANALYSIS
http://members.aol.com/tprinty/azconc.html

Unfortunately at the time apparently nobody tried to get the radar tapes or check flight plans… more evidence IMO that MUFON and NUFORC were more interested in “selling their UFO story” than finding any evidence to the contrary.

[shrug]
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Postby zplix » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:57 pm

This is a more better decisive expose of the Mexican 'UFO' event, IMO.

Is this case now sewn up?

http://www.alcione.org/FAM/FLIR_CONCLUSION.html
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Postby zplix » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:11 pm

Now wiat though. I have read that this route they--the Mexican military took was regular. Do you not think they would have been familiar with difference between distant oil rig flares and UFOs?

Also, see this interview where the participants claim they were "surrounded" by the UFOs, and that they "pursued" them and that the UFOs changed direction.....? http://www.rense.com/general53/mextt.htm
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Postby murnut » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:44 pm

The Mexican Air Force UFO Affair:
Aliens, Ball Lightning, or Flares?
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/04-07-24.html

[check out the link... there's some overlay images of the location of the oil platforms... they match pefectly and it looks like they're flying because the camera is zoomed in from a distance and clouds pass between]



This is good info....I had not heard of this explanation before...will check it out...Thanks

Andy
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Postby Access Denied » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:08 pm

zplix wrote:Now wiat though. I have read that this route they--the Mexican military took was regular. Do you not think they would have been familiar with difference between distant oil rig flares and UFOs?

This seems to be one possible explanation…

[from the link I gave]

Why did this event become such an issue?

A hypothesis is that the crew was following a legitimate target that happened to disappear near where the “ten UFO” group became visible, which they had not encountered in their flight experience before. The two events became tied together in the crew’s mind and the resulting excitement and fear caused them to view everything in terms of UFOs. Ultimately, they felt a responsibility to try to get an answer to this event. They and the Mexican Air Force must be thanked for revealing this event since it was informative, however it also demonstrates the woeful general state of basic UFO investigation and analysis.

They were pretty far away so it's possible they never caught those on FLIR before but to be sure I'd like to see the *whole* video before and after, not just the "UFO" part...
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Postby zplix » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:45 pm

I am sure--have lost track. you know how you do when you surf?..that i got the link from here which led me to some great exposes of Dr Greer. An article--very witty from someone who attended his ...circle?, and onward to a VDEO of a circle meeting, i have never seen before released feb 2007. Where, yip, Greer shpeels, and shpeels. The people sure get their moneysworth when they ask a question! well, maybe not

Anyway, I also came across this dude called Gilliand. he that lives near this big mountain, and i heard Gerorge Noory interviewing him and raving to the audience that he got so MANy emails from people saying they had gone there and seen craft.

Andone got any experiences. or want to debunk this dude, and/or point me to threads about it or other sources?
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Postby caryn » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:52 am

NARCAP concluded that they were indeed oil flares:
http://www.alcione.org/FAM/FLIR_CONCLUSION.html

But again....this is old news now!
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Postby zplix » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:59 pm

ahahhhhhaaa, some action. thought everyone had died and gone to heaven 8)

Why do you say it is done and dusted? What about the reported testimony of the very pilots. Are we to believe they were fantasizing when they claim they were "surrounded' and that these 'UFOs' "changed direction"?
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Postby caryn » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:28 pm

If you’re looking for an argument it’ll have to be with one of the others. I don’t have the time or the inclination. I’ll simply state that if there had have been more to it, I would trust that NARCAP would have found it….they didn’t…move on.
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Postby Shawnna » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:45 pm

murnut wrote:
zplix wrote:great reply.

So how does that effect the integrity of the Disclosure Project. Is it all a psyop? is is partial psyop. How are we gonna get to the bottom of it?


I view the Disclosure Project as stillborn.

Someone else must take the reigns

Could these be the ones?

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/index.html




What I've learned murnut is to look into who is actually behind some of these websites. This one appears to be owned by Universal Studios.

:shock:

Here's a link to the entire .pdf file

And here's two images from that file for those who don't want to download anything.

Image

Image

What would be really interesting is to do some research on the UFO/Alien type movies backed by Universal to see if there's a consistent 'theme' - e.g. Aliens are good vs Aliens are bad kind of themes. If there's a consistent theme, that will at least give us a clue as to which direction this particular website you found is going.

:P
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Postby ryguy » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:52 pm

Shawnna wrote:What would be really interesting is to do some research on the UFO/Alien type movies backed by Universal to see if there's a consistent 'theme' - e.g. Aliens are good vs Aliens are bad kind of themes. If there's a consistent theme, that will at least give us a clue as to which direction this particular website you found is going.

:P


hmmm...I like that. Also if there's a consistent theme/pattern - determining if any of those well-known folks in the ufo/alien research field have been promoting similar themes and why?

Welcome back to RU Shawnna... :)

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Postby murnut » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:54 pm

I know that Leslie has received money from the Sci-Fi channel in reference to her work regarding the Kecksburg PA ufo crash.

Does Universal own the Sci-Fi channel?
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Postby lost_shaman » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:02 pm

The Coaliition for Freedom of Information doesn't really have anything to do with Universal Studios other than the Sci-Fi Channel sponsored the website. This came about in 2002 while Leslie Kean was involved with the Sci-Fi Channel.
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