Tim Good, on the gravy train or a serious researcher?

General UFO stories

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Postby Chorlton » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:24 am

I would question your inclusion of Nick Pope. Though he was involved with HMG in respect to UFO's he's done (AFAIK) little independant research, simply repeating, piecemeal that written by others. Also his continual voyages around conferences charging for absolutley everything makes me question his actual dedication to research as opposed to using it as a gravy train.
On my last meeting with him I found him him a bit geeky and eerily repeating things like he was reading from a script. There didnt seem to anything coming from him if you know what I mean.

Yes hes got *personality* status but has it been achieved from reseacrh or just to earn a living? I think the latter.
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Postby ryguy » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:21 pm

Excellent - thanks for your input.

As far as Nick Pope, I found an interview of him and scanned it carefully for delusional statements such as a fervent belief in the MJ12 Scam, or a black-op government cover-up.

Quite the opposite, his comments appeared open-minded yet level headed.

The criteria I used wasn't so much whether the person believes in Aliens or not - but whether the approach they take in their investigating makes good use of evidence...if there's absolutely NO evidence for something, they don't consider it - and they refuse to draw conclusions or start making outrageous assumptions.

You are right - within that list, Nick Pope is probably the furthest to the "believer" side than the rest, I just like his approach and what he's stated in the various interviews he's done. With that said, if there's a case to be made that he's consistently ignored evidence that flies in the face of something he's written - maybe he shouldn't be on the list.

Just a note, as well, Nick Pope was essentially the MOD's counterpart to Kit Green or Ron Pandolfi's position at the CIA UFO desk. Both Kit and Ron have also had the same interest as Nick Pope in this field years after they left the CIA (Science & Technology) "weird" desk - Kit being more on the believer side, Ron being more on the Skeptic side. However, Nick stands out in that he has had the courage to publish his findings and theories based on his experiences...that's another reason he's on the list.

Here were some of the things he said in one particular interview:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1901.htm

Moderator at 1:57pm ET
Thomas Denny asks: Nick, some time ago on a television show here in the UK you seemed to deny the existence of UFOs. Are you now saying that GCHQ denials are cover-ups, for security reasons. If the truth as you put it is given to the public would this not cause deep alarm to some. I've long known about you and would like to think you are truthful, Nick, thank you for your time. Kind Regards, Thomas Denny
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Pope at 1:58pm ET
I am a believer that some UFOs are extraterrestrial in origin. That does not, however, mean that I believe there to be a systematic cover up on the part of governments. The denial you recall was, I suspect, simply a denial that the British Government were involved in any cover up or conspiracy with regard to the UFO phenomenon.



Miodrag Micic from cox.miami.edu at 2:13pm ET
Mr. Pope, what is your opinion about recently discovered movie about "alien autopsy" ? Some actions seems unprofessional in this movie, like the position in which the pathologist is holding his scissors. Is this detail another intentional cover up in order to discredit the authenticity of this movie ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Pope at 2:14pm ET
I'm not sure if the question relates to the so-called "Alien Autopsy" video first promoted by Ray Santilli, but, if so, I believe that the footage is a clever hoax. But, again, my personal involvement in this particular mystery has been very limited, so I can really say little more than that.



Moderator at 2:16pm ET
What are your feelings about abduction stories?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Pope at 2:17pm ET
I have personally investigated over 100 cases of so-called alien abduction. While I think that some could be explained as vivid dreams, hallucinations, or hoaxes, I am convinced that there is a real phenomenon here.
I believe that American researchers such as Doctor John Mack, Bud Hopkins, and David Jacobs, are doing some excellent work in this field, but I have cases in Britain, and it's clear that this is a global phenomenon.


C. Peeples (ufoguy) at 2:18pm ET
Do you believe the U.S. and other governments have far more knowledge and involvement with UFOs and extraterrestrial entities than they will admit, based upon their obvious attempts to discount and debunk any information to the contrary. Is a government "release" of information anywhere on the horizon?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Pope at 2:20pm ET
I'm not a great believer in some sinister, nebulous conspiracy. I suspect that rather than having all the answers and covering them up, governments are embarrassed by their woeful lack of knowledge and information on this issue.
I believe that the truths implicit in the UFO phenomenon run counter to the world view of many of those in power, so it's not so much a case of a cover up as opposed to people having their heads in the sand.


Moderator at 2:27pm ET
Tim asks: If there are UFOs, wouldn't that blow most religious beliefs out of the water?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Pope at 2:28pm ET
Not necessarily. Doesn't it make more sense that an omnipotent God would have created a universe full of life?



Moderator at 2:32pm ET
Larry Taylor asks: If there are such things as UFOs it must be that their intelligence is much greater then ours. If so then why don't they do something to communicate with us instead of just flying around?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Pope at 2:32pm ET
Their technology may be ahead of us, but we can't make any meaningful assumptions about their thought processes or their agenda. Then again, seeing all the bad things that we do here on Earth, maybe they just don't want to know us.


Moderator at 2:37pm ET
How much resistance have you met from peers within the Ministry of Defense?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Pope at 2:39pm ET
Most of my friends and colleagues at the Ministry of Defense have supported my speaking out on these issues. That's not to say that there haven't been some difficult moments, particularly regarding the publication of my books. But the objections to this, it has been suggested to me, may have sprung more from jealousy, ignorance, and prejudice than any meaningful problem with what I was saying.
Many people in the MOD believe in UFOs and many people in the air force have seen them or tracked them on radar, though, for obvious reasons, few of them have been prepared to go public.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moderator at 2:39pm ET
Were you always a believer?
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Nick Pope at 2:41pm ET
No, I wasn't, actually. When I took up my job, as UFO desk officer, I didn't know what to think. I had no detailed knowledge of the UFO phenomenon, and no strong opinions either way. But, at the end of my three year tour of duty, I emerged as a believer that some UFOs were almost certainly extraterrestrial spacecraft.
That conclusion was not arrived at via a blind leap of faith, but was based on my having read all the government's UFO files and having spent three years researching and investigating the subject officially.
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Postby dazdude » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:24 am

lol cmon you cant have nick pope as a credible ufo investigator.

his only calling was as the MOD buffer to write letters shutting up anyone that enquired into the subject of ufos. I have many letters form nick claiming documents I knew existed didn't exist - only for them to bee released a few years after he left the MOD. Now he needs an income he touts himself and the MOD expert in ufos when all he really was, was an office admin.

Hes not a scientist or scientific - why is he credible - i would say that for a start anyone that uses the subject they are into as a revenue source negates themselves form being crebible as they are compromised in one direction or another.

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Postby uberarcanist » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:44 am

Daz I would tend to agree with you that Nick Pope is probably nothing more than a shameless self-promoter with nothing new to offer, HOWEVER, saying someone has no credibility because they get paid for their theories and research is absurd. You couldn't believe in 99% of science if that were true.[/url]
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Postby dazdude » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:32 pm

Look if you want to get to the core of any of these subjects you cnat rely on testimonies and content form people who have one real agenda and that is to line their own pockets. All im saying is, if the person making these statements makes money from their point of view - then you should question their objectivity and credibility. And if science is run this way - then so be it - its also wrong. You cant be objective and be paid at the same time it just doesn't work.

Plus in the case of Nick pope - he lied to me for years so i would never trust him. Was he paid to lie to me - YES - but this makes it even worse in my opinion, anyone who will take money to lie to people who only seek the truth are low down on my credible list I'm afraid.

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Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:19 pm

dazdude wrote:You cant be objective and be paid at the same time it just doesn't work.


That is simply ridiculous and not true! You CAN be objective if the person paying the bills has a way to VERIFY what you provide them! Your statement is just way too broad.

I get paid (a decent sum) to produce mathematical algorithms that stabilize and control an airplane's flight. According to you, that means I cannot be objective about how well my stuff works (or IF it even works!). But the great equalizer is verification and validation. When I can put my algorithms into a computer and hook it up to an airplane (or its simulator) and PROVE it works, then I have also proved my objectivity.

And this is an important distinction why crap like UFOs, and yes, your precious RV, will NOT become mainstream until this problem can be handled: Verification and validation. And the resources you cling to that you THINK verifies RV are nothing of the sort.

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Postby Access Denied » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:48 pm

dazdude wrote:And if science is run this way - then so be it - its also wrong.

I strongly agree with you on the former but not the later. Science is not run that way. Science is run by a community of rabid skeptics… other Scientists. Only the strong survive and become profitable. Look at it this way…

Over the last 60 years the profitable Scientist has delivered us the human piloted spaceship… over that same time period the profitable UFOlogist has delivered us neither the alien pilot nor their spaceship.

If you’re an investor, which methodology historically offers the best ROI?
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Postby lost_shaman » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:37 pm

Access Denied wrote:Over the last 60 years the profitable Scientist has delivered us the human piloted spaceship… over that same time period the profitable UFOlogist has delivered us neither the alien pilot nor their spaceship.


Over those same 60 years the 'profitable Scientist' hasn't given us answers to the UFO Phenomena either. (With the exeption of those involved with the Project Hessdalen.)
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Postby uberarcanist » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:29 pm

This is not so. Stanton Friedman is a scientist and has done a lot to advance the field...also some skeptics have kept us from accepting as alien craft things that are not.
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Postby lost_shaman » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:06 pm

uberarcanist wrote:This is not so. Stanton Friedman is a scientist and has done a lot to advance the field...also some skeptics have kept us from accepting as alien craft things that are not.


Friedman has researched documents and the history of the phenomena, but he hasn't provided any answers in a scientific sense for the Phenomena other than stating his opinion that 'some UFOs are Alien spacecraft'.
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Postby dazdude » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:27 pm

That is simply ridiculous and not true! You CAN be objective if the person paying the bills has a way to VERIFY what you provide them! Your statement is just way too broad.

Okay you are right my statement is too broad let me rephrase it.

Within the 20 years I have been in ufology I have seen many and MOST of the main players ONLY give there research and opinions based on monetary gain. Books, DVDs and the lucrative lecture circuit for most of the field hold more value than the real truth. IMO objectivity within the field of ufos is in very short supply.

I get paid (a decent sum) to produce mathematical algorithms that stabilize and control an airplane's flight. According to you, that means I cannot be objective about how well my stuff works (or IF it even works!). But the great equalizer is verification and validation. When I can put my algorithms into a computer and hook it up to an airplane (or its simulator) and PROVE it works, then I have also proved my objectivity.


OK so your special - it doesn't make the rest of the world so - do you honestly belive that being paid for an opinion doesn't bias the opinion in any way thru all fields including science. next you'll tell me that the science for and against global warming hasn't been affected and paid for. It happens we all know this - not all the time but scientific and professional opinions and bought and paid for everyday.

better!

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Re: Tim Good, on the gravy train or a serious researcher?

Postby JayKew » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:59 pm

Here is his latest rubbish ------>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/content ... ture.shtml

Chorlton you seem to know this sort of thing ....... how much do you reckon he got paid for this ??
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Re: Tim Good, on the gravy train or a serious researcher?

Postby Chorlton » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:48 am

"Timothy Good is considered one of the world's leading experts on the UFO phenomenon."
Really? considered by whom ?? One of the worlds biggest Gravy Trainers I would say.

I dont know how much he was paid for that interview. It was a telephone interview so I suspect he got nothing other than free publicity. But in his case, his intention is to keep his name 'above the parapet'. Mentioning his name will keep interest in his books etc which was plugged heavily on the radio and throughout the interview.

The interview simply gave out 'HIS' opinion. He mentoned that the Authorities should keep some things secret. OF COURSE they should, it keeps the conspiracy theories up and whilst there are doubts about anything, gravy trainers like him and Lear will contiue raking in the money from books and public appearances. It sure beats a day job doesnt it?

He spouts rubbish, just like Lear, and has not a shred of evidence to back up anything he spouts.
He's now leaning heavily on the Dulce Hoax with innuendos and conjecture. He abrogates responsibility by saying "according to my informants" and we are supposed to believe him, but thats a neat 'Get out' as he can always say "well I was just repeating what my informants said. I suspect hes actually been in touch with Lear as a lot of the stuff hes spouting is similar to Lears, especially with respect to Dulce. Over the last year or so what he has been spouting is leaning a lot towards the Dulce rubbish. I think he's going for the 'safety in numbers' malarkey by sliding a lot of what Lear created into his own spiel.

Well Mr Good "according to my informants" You're full of crap, an alarmist, a profiteer, saying anything that will sell books or get more people into your 'lectures'

Then he has the balls to say, when the interviewer asks him how he responds to sceptics "I just present them with the facts" What UTTER b.s.. He has NO facts at all, merely hearsay, speculation and conjecture. He has NO facts. If he DID have any facts he would bung them in a book and sell them. Thats what he does, thats how he makes money, by propogating the myth of Aliens and Hidden secrets by Governments. Its in his interest to keep things secret. Its in his interest to keep people worried.

He finishes by saying "Are the Aliens not anxious for us to know what theyre up to here"
What a ridiculous statement. If there were any aliens here it would be pretty easy for them to let us know theyre here. Simply fly a craft over London, New York or Paris and let them get out and walk around.

The man is a self publicising snake oil salesman. Only in his case hes selling books and public appearances.

And as for Pope ? he's a trainee self publicist. Never forget, Pope is a signee of The Official Secrets Act, he cant say anything about what he learned whilst working for the MOD (If anything at all)

UFO's and the 'Alien' thing is simply a wonderfull coverup, created by Governments to allow them to do what they want and blame it on UFO's. Its in their interest to continue and encourage those daft myths. Same as its in the Catholic and Protestants interest to encourge people to believe in a God. Its a product, just like butter that they have to sell to keep themselves in work.
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Re:

Postby Chorlton » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:18 am

ryguy wrote:Excellent - thanks for your input.

As far as Nick Pope, I found an interview of him and scanned it carefully for delusional statements such as a fervent belief in the MJ12 Scam, or a black-op government cover-up.

Quite the opposite, his comments appeared open-minded yet level headed.


As one would expect from a Government employee/ex employee. Or is he?
Heres a conspiracy theory. Could Pope still be employed by HMG to continue propogating the myth of UFO's and aliens?. The first time I saw him interviewed I though that.

If he isnt then he is privvy to no more information than the rest of us, and is as ignorant as the rest of us.
As an Official secrets signatory he cant say anything about what he read or saw. He would also have to be VERY carefull about anything he said which even bordered upon anything he saw. Therefore he is dependant upon the same sources of info as you or I.

Anyone saying he has his MOD contacts is seriously delusional in how Government/The old boy network really works.
Once he left his post he would be cut off like a guillotine. In his case there would be no Old Boy Network as he wasnt around long enough.
Thats why whatever he says is very carefully worded, like hes always looking over his shoulder. I would think if he was fronted up by a hard line sceptic he would crumble, just having to fall back on hearsay and conjecture.
I'd love to take a pop at him or Good. Theyd leave crying, or at the very least with different views than when they came in.
Because the real point is, people like him, Good and Lear (spit) simply dont have any evidence........nothing.
If they DID have any info they would be making millions out of it. Bloody hell, I'd be making millions out of it if I could find out.
This is a very mysterious world we live in. A world in which even scientists find problems with certain phenomena.
We can go to the moon, but a bug infinitely smaller than a pinhead can kill us of give us intolerable pain.

Maybe thats where the aliens are? Microscopic beings, living in us or all around us.

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Re: Re:

Postby ryguy » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:06 pm

Chorlton wrote:If he isnt then he is privvy to no more information than the rest of us, and is as ignorant as the rest of us.
As an Official secrets signatory he cant say anything about what he read or saw. He would also have to be VERY carefull about anything he said which even bordered upon anything he saw. Therefore he is dependant upon the same sources of info as you or I.


That statement is the most accurate description of anything we've heard supposed "insiders" say or write either directly to us, to others, or publicly. They appear not to be privvy to any more information than the general public. And the little they are privvy to, they've drawn significant conclusions based on very loose connections, innuendos, and little-to-no data to draw conclusions.

Sort of what intelligence analysts have to do every single day I suppose. I guess it's part of their psychology. :) They can't "turn it off" simply because they no longer work within intel anymore...

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