Are sleep disorders and UFO experiences related?

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Are sleep disorders and UFO experiences related?

Postby ryguy » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:29 am

Access Denied wrote:‘Demons in the Dark’
How scientists talk about UFO sightings
http://www.newsweek.com/id/96014

Scientists defend UFO believers against charges that they're psychologically deranged. People who report UFO sightings and abductions, a 1993 study in the Journal of Abnormal Psychology concluded, are just as intelligent, psychologically healthy, and free of fantasies as people without such experiences. People with UFO experiences differed on only one known measure: sleep deprivation.

So glad you quoted that. :)

While completely anecdotal - I found a testimony of sorts provided by an abductee that was absolutely fascinating...and really should prompt some researchers to explore the link between such diseases and these kinds of experiences.

This is a really long article, but I'm going to post it in it's entirety as it's a great read.

Link Here

She goes off the deep end with the "implants" business at the bottom - but the key is recognizing important correlations that demand further study.

Fibromyalgia and Abductees
By K. Wilson © 1997

"In 1987, it became crystal clear to me that I was being abducted. At the same time I started having bad muscle spasms in my back and time loss episodes. I started losing the ability to remember words and explain things. From 1991 to 1994, I was visited several times a week. I was in such bad shape with the muscle spasms that I was bedridden almost the entire three years. The more I got visited, the worse I got, and I could see there was a connection. The doctors checked me for everything under the sun and nothing showed up except for Fibromyalgia.

I used to work in a job that required remembering many small details at the drop of a hat. Because of my abductions and suffering with Fibromyalgia, I am no longer able to work. My mind changed from being razor sharp to a mind that can't remember s^~t. It is ironic that I cannot forget the abductions - of those - I remember every detail.

When I hosted support groups, I started talking with other abductees. I asked them if they had this disease. Of the people I questioned, I found that all of them suffered the symptoms of Fibromyalgia. I thought this was very significant and should be investigated." -- Kitty Miller [1]

I met Kitty Miller several years ago through a support group I hosted for abductees. It was actually Kitty who first suspected there might be a relationship between abductees and the syndrome known as Fibromyalgia.

According to the Fibromyalgia Network's brochure:

"Fibromyalgia is a widespread musculoskeletal pain and fatigue disorder for which the cause is unknown. The term itself means pain in the muscles, ligaments and tendons, or in other words, the fibrous tissues in the body.

The symptoms of Fibromyalgia include (1) Pain - often described as a deep muscular aching, burning, throbbing, shooting and stabbing; (2) Fatigue - sometimes described as "brain fatigue" in which patients feel totally drained of energy; and (3) Sleep disorder - called the alpha-EEG anomaly.

Sleep researchers have discovered that patients could usually fall asleep without much trouble, but their deep level or Stage 4 sleep was constantly interrupted by bursts of awake-like brain activity. Patients appeared to spend the night with one foot in sleep and the other one out of it." [2]


Other symptoms of Fibromyalgia include irritable bowel syndrome, chronic headaches, and temporomandibular joint dysfunction syndrome. Because deep level sleep or Stage 4 sleep is so crucial for many body functions such as tissue repair, antibody production, and perhaps even the regulation of various neurotransmitters, the sleep disorder that frequently occurs in Fibromyalgia patients is thought to be a major contributing factor to the symptoms of this condition.

Treatments and medication are geared toward improving the quality of sleep and reducing pain, but there does not appear to be a complete cure for the disease. [3]

Personal Experience

My mother (who has also had abduction experiences) was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia several years ago, even though her symptoms first appeared almost thirty years ago. My symptoms began to occur when I was in my late twenties, but like my mother I ignored them, believing them to be nothing more than "aches and pains" that occurred to everyone. It was not until I reached my thirties that my conditioned worsened substantially. When I reached the point where I had difficulty removing the pots from my pot rack in the kitchen, I decided something had to be done.

During this same period, the migraine headaches (another symptom of Fibromyalgia) I have experienced since I was eighteen, became more frequent in occurrence and more intense. Like Kitty, it seemed I was spending more time sick in bed than living a productive life. After a year of physical therapy, I now control the symptoms of Fibromyalgia with exercise and medication. I do not live a pain-free life, but rather, a pain "manageable" life.

Health Psychology

A popular area of study in the field of psychology is called Health Psychology. Psychologists who specialize in Health Psychology research the relationship between psychological factors and physical health. They also assess the psychological and physical effects of stress and develop programs to help people reduce stress in their lives.

If there is a relationship between being an abductee and developing Fibromyalgia, a study to determine if a cause-and-effect relationship exists might fall to the specialists in the field of Health Psychology. It was my hope that after a decade of people coming forward with reports of abduction - along with the physical effects of their abductions - that we would have clinical studies involving this subject. With rare exception, [4] the mental health community has only been able to come up with questionnaire based reports; which unfortunately, focus not on helping abductees, but rather on "debunking" the information that abductees freely give them.

Sleep Studies

Scientists know that sleep is necessary. Studies involving sleep deprivation have shown that humans, when deprived of sleep for long periods of time, develop problems in their ability to think and reason. Some subjects suffered from hallucinations, and developed hand tremors, double vision and reduced pain thresholds. [5] When rats were deprived of sleep they survived for as long as 33 days, and then died. When autopsies were done on the rats, it was determined that they died not from one single cause, but from a variety of causes that included stomach ulcers, an imbalance of body chemistry, and internal hemorrhages. [6]

Other theories as to why we need to sleep include: (1) conserving energy; (2) restoring depleted resources - tissue repair, cell restoration and neurotransmitter restoration; (3) to clear the mind; for example, some scientists believe that the heightened electrical activity typical of REM sleep acts as an eraser, wiping away extraneous information that we accumulated during the day; and (4) sleeping to dream. Sleep studies show that we all dream even though we may not remember our dreams. This suggests that dreams serve an important function in our lives. [7]

Stage 4 Sleep

Since there is a relationship between Fibromyalgia and difficulty reaching or maintaining Stage 4 sleep, or deep level sleep; a review of the sleep cycle may be helpful in determining whether or not the disruption of a person's sleep at particular times of the night, such as an abduction, would have an effect on Stage 4 sleep.

For this hypothetical experiment, I will use myself as an example. When I believe I have just experienced an abduction, the time is often between 2:00 a.m. and 3:30 a.m. - what we call "the middle of the night." Of course, abductions take place at all times of the day and night, but as far as my experiences, the majority have occurred during the night.

I usually go to bed between 10:30 and 11:30 p.m. For convenience sake, I will use the even figure of 11:00 p.m. to make adding the minutes of each sleep cycle easier.

11:00 p.m.
The light sleep that occurs just after dozing off is called Stage 1 sleep. People are easily awakened during Stage 1 sleep and often do not realize they have been sleeping. Stage 1 sleep normally lasts only a few minutes.

11:05 p.m.
Stage 2 sleep follows and is a deeper level sleep. Eye movements are minimal and muscular activity decreases to an even lower level. Brain wave activity known as the K-complex can occur and is in response to an external stimulus, like the sound of a voice or an internal stimulus like stomach cramps.

This cycle progresses into an even deeper Stage 3 level sleep characterized by delta waves. When these waves account for 50 percent of the EEG tracing, a person is in Stage 3 sleep.

11:15 p.m. to 11:30 p.m.
When delta waves exceed 50 percent in proportion to other brain waves, the subject is in Stage 4 sleep, the deepest level of sleep. It is difficult to awaken someone from Stage 4 sleep and if they are awakened, they will be disoriented and confused. It takes about fifteen to thirty minutes to reach Stage 4 sleep.

People usually remain in Stage 4 sleep for about thirty to forty minutes and then gradually return through Stages 3, 2, and 1 again. The first period of REM sleep, Rapid Eye Movement (when we dream) occurs about 90 minutes after falling to sleep, when we reenter Stage 1.

12:30 a.m. (1st Cycle of Sleep is completed)
During the night, we move through about 5 successive cycles of sleep; from Stage 1 to Stage 4, and from Stage 4 back to Stage 1 again. Each cycle lasts about 90 minutes.

2:00 a.m. (2nd Cycle of Sleep is completed)
Although the first episode of REM sleep may last only five to ten minutes, each time we reenter REM sleep, the cycle lasts longer. At the same time, the deep sleep cycle becomes shorter. The final episode of REM sleep may last as long as 40 minutes or more.

It is during the 3rd Cycle of Sleep, when REM sleep and deep sleep are becoming more equal in length, that I suspect many of my experiences are occurring or just beginning to occur:

3:30 a.m. (3rd Cycle of Sleep is completed)
Although this is during the time (between 2:00 a.m. and 3:30 a.m.) that is often stated by abductees as "the time they come," I'm not sure if this crude experiment really tells us much. When I began writing this, I had no idea where the time sequence, as cut-and-dry as it is, would end up. Perhaps it is coincidental that it turned out to be during the same time frame that many abductees feel they are being abducted.

4:30 a.m. (4th Cycle of Sleep is completed)
6:00 a.m. (5th Cycle of Sleep is completed) [8]
For the sake of our hypothesis, let us assume that we are being abducted during the 3rd Cycle of Sleep. This would mean that during the time we are experiencing more equal amounts of dreaming and deep sleep, we are not getting it. Could this be why so many abductees say they feel as if they were awake all night?

One of the things we need to determine is, what occurs when the aliens (or whoever is abducting us) returns us? Do we immediately go into REM sleep and dream about what just occurred? Do our brains process the experience during this time, placing the memories of the abduction into long term memory? If we awaken just after being returned to our beds, are we likely to retain more or less memory of the event?

I have had many experiences immediately after which I could remember many, many details. I have also had a few experiences after which I could not remember much at all, but after deciding to go back to sleep, I would "dream" about what just occurred.

VRS: Virtual Reality Scenarios

The late Dr. Karla Turner described what she termed Virtual Reality Scenarios in her book Taken: Inside the Alien-Human Abduction Agenda. [9] If VRS are indeed occurring, which I believe is the case, then the abductee's brain would still be "awakened" during the night and the effects might be the same as if a physical abduction was occurring. Remember the Fibromyalgia Network's findings: "...their deep level or Stage 4 sleep was constantly interrupted by bursts of awake-like brain activity. Patients appeared to spend the night with one foot in sleep and the other one out of it." [10]

If an abductee has been implanted with an intracerebral device, then the operators of the implant may be able to abduct someone by "abducting their mind" while their body stays in bed. The unexplainable vividness of some abduction accounts may be explained by the electronic implantation of memories into the brain of the abductee, a form of VRS. Certainly this cannot be the case for all abductions, but it may explain a portion of abductions. [11] Finally, we also need to take into consideration the neurological effects of OBEs, out-of-body experiences. Some abductees, most notably Betty Andreasson-Luca, have described experiences with aliens and beings of light during out-of-body experiences. [12]

Medical Research Lacking

It is impossible to solve the mystery of abductions and their possible relationship to Fibromyalgia in a single experiment, much less a single article. It is clear to me that we will probably not find definitive answers to these questions until sleep studies are conducted on people claiming alien abduction. Of course, it would help immensely if an alien abduction could be filmed or monitored by a group of scientists. [13]

This article was written to draw attention to the possibility that there may be a relationship between being an abductee and developing Fibromyalgia. It is yet another example of one of the areas the medical community, (including scientists within in the UFO community) could be studying. The lack of such research demonstrates the scientific community's unwillingness to apply the scientific method to the study of alien abduction.

For example, according to the 1995 MUFON Symposium Proceedings, The Mutual UFO Network has the following number of scientific or medical personnel listed on their Advisory Board of Consultants:

Biochemistry: 4 Ph.D.s
Biological Sciences: 2 Ph.D.s
Medicine 35 M.D.s
Psychiatry: 7 M.D.s
Psychology: 30 Ph.D.s

I have to wonder why we have not heard from this group of credentialed scientists? Specifically, why aren't abductees being asked to participate in research projects that go beyond reports on their hypnosis sessions and the "paper and pencil questionnaire"?

After more than ten years of abductees going public, it seems that once again, we are left to fend for ourselves. Like post traumatic stress disorder, Fibromyalgia may be yet another syndrome caused by abduction. [14] It is strange how our dreams and "sleep paralysis" can make so many of us feel so bad, isn't it?


*** Mod Edit: Topic split from unrelated thread and added link to Newsweek article in first quote. ***
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Postby lost_shaman » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:35 pm

ryguy wrote:
Access Denied wrote:
People with UFO experiences differed on only one known measure: sleep deprivation.


So glad you quoted that. :)


"Alien Abductions" have been around for Centuries if not all of Human History. Before "Aliens" entered our collective vocabulary people reported the "abductions" as daemons, or trolls, or Angels, or incubi and succubi, etc. These experiences are now certainly thought to be caused by sleep disorders or conditions, often in association with people who are prone to false memories who may not be able to distinguish 'dreams' or 'waking dreams' from actual reality.

Now clearly these type of "abduction" experiences are a completely separate issue that shouldn't be confused with observations of UFO's or UAP in the atmosphere.

See Susan Clancy's research also published in the Journal of Abnormal Psychology (August 2002).

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2002 ... lancy.html

In fact, said Clancy, the people who recovered memories of alien abductions were seldom psychologically impaired. "They're normal, very nice people with no overt psychopathology," she said.

Yet the recovered-memory abductees as a group were much more likely to falsely remember the word sweet - not on the list, but suggested by it - than either of the other two groups. In this laboratory test, the recovered-memory group was more prone than the other two groups to create false memories.

And assuming, as Clancy and her colleagues did, that none of the subjects were actually abducted by space aliens, she drew the conclusion that people who develop false memories in the lab are also more likely to develop false memories of experiences that were suggested or imagined.

Additional research helped explain the recovered-memory group's propensity toward false memories of alien abductions.

Everyone in this group developed his or her belief of alien abduction after describing an episode that is consistent with sleep paralysis, a harmless but nonetheless frightening desychronization of sleep cycles.

"You wake up from REM [rapid eye movement] sleep but you still feel the paralysis that normally accompanies REM sleep," said Clancy.

Occurring across cultures in approximately 15 percent of the population, sleep paralysis is sometimes accompanied by hallucinations: a sensation of electrical tingling or levitation, hearing buzzing noises, seeing flashing lights or shadowy figures hovering near the bed.

That her subjects attributed this sleep paralysis to alien abduction is not surprising, said Clancy.

"There's this widely shared cultural script that helps explain these frightening sleep paralysis experiences," she said. From "The X-Files" to movies, books, and media, this group prone to creating false memories can choose from a wide array of sources for suggestion.

"I think these recovered memories are actually distorted memories of things they had read about or seen," she said.


Agian I'd reiterate, clearly these type of "abduction" experiences are a completely separate issue that shouldn't be confused with observations of UFO's or UAP in the atmosphere.
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Postby ryguy » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:32 pm

lost_shaman wrote:Now clearly these type of "abduction" experiences are a completely separate issue that shouldn't be confused with observations of UFO's or UAP in the atmosphere.


Absolutely - I couldn't agree more with that statement.

Observations out "in the field" of aerial phenomenon is a very distinct experience from abductions, with a whole different set of variables.

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Postby lost_shaman » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:50 pm

ryguy wrote:
lost_shaman wrote:Now clearly these type of "abduction" experiences are a completely separate issue that shouldn't be confused with observations of UFO's or UAP in the atmosphere.


Absolutely - I couldn't agree more with that statement.



Glad you agree with me Ryan, I also think we likely agree on more things than we disagree about as you suggested in another post.


ryguy wrote:Observations out "in the field" of aerial phenomenon is a very distinct experience from abductions, with a whole different set of variables.

-Ry


Yes, and being awake during observations tends to make the observations a bit more interesting from a physics POV.
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Postby Access Denied » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:20 am

lost_shaman wrote:Yes, and being awake during observations tends to make the observations a bit more interesting from a physics POV.

Ya think? :lol:

Indeed the Newsweek article appears a bit misleading. Here’s an article in the New York Times from 1993 about the study cited…

Study Finds No Abnormality In Those Reporting U.F.O.'s
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A965958260

A study of 49 people who have reported encounters with unidentified flying objects has found no tendency toward abnormality, apart from a previous belief that such visitations from beyond the earth do occur.

And here’s the abstract of the actual paper...

Close encounters: An examination of UFO experiences.
Spanos, Nicholas P.; Cross, Patricia A.; Dickson, Kirby; DuBreuil, Susan C.
http://content.apa.org/journals/abn/102/4/624

Ss who reported UFO experiences were divided into those whose experiences were nonintense (e.g., seeing lights and shapes in the sky) and those whose experiences were intense (e.g., seeing and communicating with aliens or missing time). On a battery of objective tests Ss in these 2 groups did not score as more psychopathological, less intelligent, or more fantasy prone and hypnotizable than a community comparison group or a student comparison group. However, Ss in the UFO groups believed more strongly in space alien visitation than did comparison Ss. The UFO experiences of Ss in the intense group were more frequently sleep-related than the experiences of Ss in the nonintense group. Among the combined UFO Ss, intensity of UFO experiences correlated significantly with inventories that assessed proneness toward fantasy and unusual sensory experiences. Implications are discussed.

Without reading the paper (not free) it would seem that while this statement may be fundamentally true…

Newsweek wrote:People with UFO experiences differed on only one known measure: sleep deprivation.

...it’s a bit misleading in that the study found Ss (subjects) who merely report “lights and shapes in the sky” were less often sleep-related than the more “intense” experiences but nevertheless still sleep-related in some cases apparently?

Anyway, I imagine the second to last sentence in the above abstract might raise a few eyebrows...
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Postby lost_shaman » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:46 am

Access Denied wrote:
lost_shaman wrote:Yes, and being awake during observations tends to make the observations a bit more interesting from a physics POV.

Ya think? :lol:


Ya! LOL! I think!


Access Denied wrote:Indeed the Newsweek article appears a bit misleading. Here’s an article in the New York Times from 1993 about the study cited…


And this is peer reviewed? Oh, nevermind you said it's a misleading article from 1993!


Access Denied wrote:...it’s a bit misleading in that the study found Ss (subjects) who merely report “lights and shapes in the sky” were less often sleep-related than the more “intense” experiences but nevertheless still sleep-related in some cases apparently?


I'd reply but I'm not familiar with this study. How peoples observations in the atmosphere are "appereantly" associated with sleep disorders is not clear to me.

Access Denied wrote:[
...it’s a bit misleading in that the study found Ss (subjects) who merely report “lights and shapes in the sky” were less often sleep-related than the more “intense” experiences but nevertheless still sleep-related in some cases apparently?


How? I missed that part.

Access Denied wrote:Anyway, I imagine the second to last sentence in the above abstract might raise a few eyebrows...


Clancy's research went above and beyond this 'News' paper article and the point you are trying to make here is not evident in Clancy's peer reviewed paper.
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Postby Access Denied » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:52 am

lost_shaman wrote:
Access Denied wrote:Indeed the Newsweek article appears a bit misleading. Here’s an article in the New York Times from 1993 about the study cited…

And this is peer reviewed? Oh, nevermind you said it's a misleading article from 1993!

Yes, the 1993 study cited in *both* the (slightly misleading IMHO) 2008 Newsweek article AND the (not so misleading, hence the link for comparison) 1993 New York Times article IS peer reviewed. Sorry for the confusion if you misunderstood what I was trying say. Did you read the NYT article and if so any comments to share?

Access Denied wrote:I'd reply but I'm not familiar with this study. How peoples observations in the atmosphere are "apparently" associated with sleep disorders is not clear to me.

Purely speculation on my part since I have not read the full study either but if I had to guess I can think of two possible reasons…

1. Sleep deprivation (for whatever reason) is known to adversely affect perception and in extreme cases cause hallucinations. This may account for *some* misinterpretations.

2. Some who suffer from sleep disorders (e.g. sleep paralysis possibly leading to “abduction” experiences) that may lead them to misidentify their observations may have an *unstated* belief in alien visitation as a result and by not reporting their "abduction" experience they do not fall into the “extreme” category.

I could be wrong though.

lost_shaman wrote:Clancy's research went above and beyond this 'News' paper article and the point you are trying to make here is not evident in Clancy's peer reviewed paper.

I disagree Clancy’s research went “above and beyond” the 1993 study (also peer reviewed and not to be confused with the way the research was reported in the “News”) cited. The two studies appear to compliment each other although I believe you may be right in that Clancy’s work appears more focused solely on the “abduction” phenomena.
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Postby caryn » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:32 pm

You might find my own research into sleep disorders of interest - I've suffered bouts of what would appear to be Sleep Paralysis since my 20s - but with a twist. Written awhile ago now, and I don't necessarily hold the same conclusions. Not that I expressed many in this article.

Would like to hear your opinions:

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/contact.htm
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Postby lost_shaman » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:43 pm

Access Denied wrote: Did you read the NYT article and if so any comments to share?


After having read the NYT article,... I thought it was very short. It seems somewhat vague on the point about the 'sleep related' instances.

The large majority of U.F.O. experiences were reported to have taken place at night, and almost 60 percent were associated with sleep. Of the experiences classified as "intense," the study said a quarter were "most probably explicable in terms of sleep paralysis," a condition that occurs in otherwise normal subjects either just as they fall asleep or as they wake.


So I can see why you stated that... " it’s a bit misleading in that the study found Ss (subjects) who merely report “lights and shapes in the sky” were less often sleep-related than the more “intense” experiences but nevertheless still sleep-related in some cases apparently?" -AD

Here in another article by Susan Blackmore, Skeptical Inquirer Magazine, May/June 1998, Spanos et al are cited on this very issue which seems to make things a bit more clear.

Spanos et al. (1993) have pointed out the similarities between abductions and sleep paralysis. The majority of the abduction experiences they studied occurred at night, and almost 60 percent of the "intense" reports were sleep related. Of the intense experiences, nearly a quarter involved symptoms similar to sleep paralysis.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc817.htm


Here the 'sleep related' experiences noted by Spanos et al are almost all attributed to the "intense" (e.g., seeing and communicating with aliens or missing time)group, and not to the "nonintense" (e.g., seeing lights and shapes in the sky) group.

Appearently only one individual placed in the nonintense group claimed his experience was related to falling asleep, dreaming, or waking up.

There were, however, major differences between the intense and nonintense UFO groups with regard to whether or not their experiences were sleep related. UFO-intense subjects reported that their experiences were sleep related significantly more often than did the nonintense subjects. Only one subject in the nonintense group said his experience was related to falling asleep, dreaming, or waking up; 58 percent of the intense subjects described their experience as sleep related.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-15383295.html


I don't really think much significance can be given to the one individual from the nonintense group. I certainly don't think Spanos et al are making any corellation between sleep disorders and people observing objects in the sky while being awake.
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Postby Access Denied » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:10 am

Great research LS thanks! Given that single data point lol, I would have to agree. :D

Caryn, thanks for the link. Very interesting so far, looks like I have some more homework to do!

8)

[I split this topic out of the other thread in anticipation of further discussion]
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Postby lost_shaman » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:57 am

One thing I also find interesting is that the "intense" group greatly outnumbers the "nonintense" group by 31 to 18 individuals respectively. Together these two groups make up 27% of the population of the study, 17% and 10% respectively.

Also 58% of the 31 individuals in the "intense" group who's experiences were 'sleep related' (abduction/contact experiences) would be 18 individuals (again this is 10% of the studies population) which is basically one 'sleep related' (abduction/contact) experiences for every observation of an object in the sky by persons who were awake made by individuals in the "nonintense" group!

Other polls also suggest that around 9% of the U.S. population has seen something similar to an "unidentified object" in the atmosphere, presumably while awake. This is completely consistent with the the percentage of the population of the Spanos et al "nonintense" group!

That is a nice correlation, although I'd expect some percentage of the control group to have also observed 'UFOs'. Does this get any discussion in the Study? Also does age bias the results if we are dealing with a very rarely observed phenomena considering the largest control group was made up of Students?

One thing Spanos et al make clear here is that we are dealing with TWO distinct groups of people describing TWO different and distinct stimuli, where 'abductees/contactees' suffering from various 'sleep related'/ imagination problems may actually represent the majority of people responding to a solicitation for information on the "UFO" Phenomena, and people observing strange Phenomena in the atmosphere (UAP observations?) might actually represent the minority!

That is interesting to me and to this discussion we are having I think.

Edit: To answer your question,... "Are sleep disorders and UFO experiences related?"

I think the answer is clearly NO observations in the atmosphere by persons who are 'awake' are not, but "Alien abduction/contact experiences" clearly seem to be by and large "sleep related" experiences.
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Postby caryn » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:00 pm

You have a prime subject here you know, to test your theories on. Having been exposed to both UAP and ‘contact’ (not abduction) - I fall into both test sets.

Because I believe this issue to be of considerable significance, I’m willing to engage you in a frank discussion if you like?

I’ll start by stating that I was diagnosed with having Fibromyalgia around 10 years ago. Later it was considered a misdiagnosis, purely because I was too well to be suffering from this condition. But, I do suffer more than my fair share of headaches/migraines. I sometimes suffer joint pain when over-tired, on rare occasions to the point where I can’t walk properly or use my hands. My sleeping habits have been atrocious since my late teens - I suffer bouts of insomnia.

However – this does not offer an explanation for the physically observable effects induced by some of these ‘encounters’ – witnessed by a number of people during my life. To date, no literature produced seems to tackle this specific issue relative to SP/ASP. When trying to engage the medical profession on this issue they have been very reluctant to address it. Therefore, I’m quite keen to get some good dialogue going on here in relation to this.

My current position is: I do not believe that I have encountered biological alien entities. I do not believe that I have been abducted. I do believe that I have witnessed some unusual and physical law defying aerial acrobatics. And, that I have encountered something which can and does have a physical impact on our material environment - which could quite readily be construed as an Alien Intelligence.

My current and long standing theory is: That the ‘something’ which can and does have a physical impact on our material environment is intrinsically linked to the human psyche, in a slightly evolved (which can be discussed later)Jungian ‘collective unconscious’ sense:

‘Jung proposed that the archetype had a dual nature: it exists both in the psyche and in the world at large. He called this non-psychic aspect of the archetype the 'psychoid' archetype. He illustrated this by drawing on the analogy of the electromagnetic spectrum. The part of the spectrum which is visible to us corresponds to the conscious aspects of the archetype. The invisible infra-red end of the spectrum corresponds to the unconscious biological aspects of the archetype that merges with its chemical and physical conditions.[5] He suggested that not only do the archetypal structures govern the behaviour of all living organisms, but that they were contiguous with structures controlling the behaviour of organic matter as well. The archetype was not merely a psychic entity, but more fundamentally, a bridge to matter in general.[6] Jung used the ancient term of unus mundus to describe the unitary reality which he believed underlay all manifest phenomena. He conceived archetypes to be the mediators of the unus mundus, organising not only ideas in the psyche, but also the fundamental principles of matter and energy in the physical world.

It was this psychoid aspect of the archetype that so impressed Nobel laureate physicist Wolfgang Pauli. Embracing Jung's concept, Pauli believed that the archetype provided a link between physical events and the mind of the scientist who studied them. In doing so he echoed the position adopted by German astronomer Johannes Kepler. Thus the archetypes which ordered our perceptions and ideas are themselves the product of an objective order which transcends both the human mind and the external world.’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_archetypes
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Postby ryguy » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:38 pm

caryn wrote:I’ll start by stating that I was diagnosed with having Fibromyalgia around 10 years ago. Later it was considered a misdiagnosis, purely because I was too well to be suffering from this condition. But, I do suffer more than my fair share of headaches/migraines. I sometimes suffer joint pain when over-tired, on rare occasions to the point where I can’t walk properly or use my hands. My sleeping habits have been atrocious since my late teens - I suffer bouts of insomnia.


Caryn - from the description of your continuing symptoms, it sounds like you continue suffering from what other Fibromyalgia patients describe? Who considered, later, that your initial diagnosis was wrong, and why?

-Ry
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Postby caryn » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:03 am

Hi Ryan,

Quick response – late for a meeting.

Yes, which is why I mentioned it. A doctor around 7 years ago thought the diagnosis was wrong mainly because I’m very active. The bouts of joint pain weren’t frequent enough when compared to other Fibromyalgia sufferers – according to the Doc. That’s not to say that I don’t perhaps suffer a milder form – or that my system copes with it in a better way than others…I don’t know.

Not sure of the current state of play, but at the time Fibromyalgia was not diagnosed via blood tests unlike Arthritis. The specialist would make the diagnosis based on the patient’s symptoms – prescribing painkillers and sleeping tablets.
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Postby lost_shaman » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:05 am

I think the evidence so far is pretty convincing as to the question posed for this thread.

That being an overwhelming 'NO' that UFO/UAP observations are not 'sleep related', while "Abduction/Contact" 'experiences' certainly appear to be 'sleep related' (Spanos et al, 1993).

What does seem clear is that individuals with a propensity towards False Memories and 'sleep related' experiences typify the average "Abductee/Contactee" experience (Spanos et al, 1993, Clancy et al, 2005).
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