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Postby Shawnna » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:05 pm

Hidden Hand wrote:
cartoonsyndicate wrote:No degree of skepticism can erase this reality.

With all due respect - that is an extremely dogmatic statement. If you actually *believe* this, Jacques Valle might say you have been pwned... Check out Vallee's Revelations - "Somebody is going to a lot of trouble to convince of the reality of extraterrestrials, to the exclusion of other, possibly more important hypotheses about UFOs." (italics Vallee's. From the chapter "Special Effects".)

ETH = Extra Terrestrial Hypothesis
PSH = Psychosocial Hypothesis

Check out the Magonia http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/ for probably the biggest online archive of argument in support of PSH.

Further James Oberg's The Black Box Approach To UFO Perceptions http://www.debunker.com/texts/black_box ... tions.html

Also recommend the books Abducted : How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens by Susan Clancy and the Abduction Enigma by Kevin Randle.


Hi Hidden and thanks again for so many links to additional research. :)

We want all to feel comfortable here - including those who have different views. :P

Always feel free to share yours, but please refrain from criticizing or downplaying others. :cry:

Thanks in advance!

Always,
Shawnna
"The only thing we found that makes the emptiness bearable is................... each other."

From the movie "Contact"

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Postby Hidden Hand » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:13 pm

[Shawnna (& cartoonsyn if necessary) - that is why I stated "with ALL respect" - I respect that he has a different view. I will not ever get into an online brawl about this. This was not a criticism/attack, just a statement that we have different POVs. K?

The way I read his statement, CS is saying that there is INCONTROVERTABLE evidence for ETH ("No amount of skepticism can erase this reality"). There is very little value in trying to share information with people if they do not believe such information even exists. That is all I was saying.]
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Postby Hidden Hand » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:25 pm

A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!


There is a difference between having a different POV and abusing somebody because they have a different POV. cartoonsyndicate, if you feel abused - my apologies - not my intent AT ALL.. Please consider the above post peppered with :)'s I do not claim to know everything..

Edit:
To put it another way -
Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis

This is how knowledge grows.

If we all agreed 100% of the time, we'd all be God and be bored as heck.

The ONLY way to refine knowledge is to have two conflicting theses butting heads (metaphorically - "butting heads" can take different forms).

If somebody has a different thesis from me, that is an opportunity for a) them to learn from me, or b) me to learn from them, or c) us both to learn and come to some greater understanding.

(Note: This belief is intrinsic to my D-EGO.)

At some point the recipient of a message can work on the shades of meaning of any word and become offended.

It wasn't an attack - don't take it that way.

Crocker's Rule are in effect for HH - if you feel bitten by something, I will apologize and assure such was not intended. But you won't hear me get POed by anything anybody says about me.

I am basically a quiet introvert - I only speak up to say things I think will actually help others.

Final Edit:
"We now return you to your regularly scheduled program." :) (a.k.a. Sorry for the digression from the thread topic.)

"http://dowire.org/wiki/Crocker's_Rules"


***Admin edit - corrected link, the problem is the apostrophe...Zep***
Last edited by Hidden Hand on Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Shawnna » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:41 pm

Very well said Hidden Hand - and THANKS for posting this!

We all have such a wonderful opportunity to learn from each other!

Always,
Shawnna
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:45 pm

excellent interview with jacques vallee here

oh no- i in no way feel abused. vallee has come to a very awkward understanding of the phenomena. it reminds me of allen hynek's attribution of ufo reports to swamp gas in michigan ca. 1967. certainly we don't understand but yet feel the need to explain in any case.

MOD edit - made link stand out
amidst the growing ripples and wiry bamboos, broken in youth like the teeth of a mutant.. Afterburn, ca 1978
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Postby Shawnna » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:06 pm

Hidden Hand wrote:
Crocker's Rule are in effect for HH: http://dowire.org/wiki/Crocker's_Rules - if you feel bitten by something, I will apologize and assure such was not intended. But you won't hear me get POed by anything anybody says about me.

I am basically a quiet introvert - I only speak up to say things I think will actually help others.

Final Edit:
"We now return you to your regularly scheduled program." :) [a.k.a. Sorry for the digression from the thread topic.]


When I try to go to Crocker's_Rules at the link provided above, I get a page that says "there is currently no text on this page"?

Help....
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Postby Hidden Hand » Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:07 pm

Shawnna - Apparently, I'm having a LOT of trouble with the BBCode url linking on your forum - I shall try once more..

"http://dowire.org/wiki/Crocker's_Rules"

Nope - can't get the linking to work. the _ screws up the automatic linking, and the BBCode doesn't want to work either - try copy & paste the whole URL.


***Admin edit - corrected link***
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Postby Hidden Hand » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:20 am

James Oberg - OTHER gov't UFO secrets / Open Letter to CSETI

Originally posted to usenet in 1997, it has been spread across the net since then. I'm copying & pasting the most relevant bits from Blue Resonant Human copying it to the UFO Updates mailing list

I apologize for the lengthy quote, I tried really hard to summarize this down to a soundbite, and just decided it was important enough to just excerpt verbatim:

I believe there is a far more valuable body of "secrets" that will help understand the decades of UFO phenomena that the world has experienced. This deals with government-related activities which directly or indirectly led to public perceptions that UFOs might be real when they weren't. Sometimes these actions were carefully orchestrated in advance, sometimes they were localized impromptu ad hoc damage- limitation tactics. But from my own experience, they seem to have played a tremendous and widely unappreciated role in inciting and enflaming public interests in UFOs while deflecting public attention from real highly-classified government activities.

I'm referring to situations where government representatives -- officials, military officers, any employees -- used "UFO" as a convenient camouflage for other official classified activities (such as retrieval of crashed aircraft or nuclear weapons or other objects), or used artificial "UFO stories" (in oral, written, photographic, film, etc.) form as "tracers" in studying the function of security safeguards and personnel psychological responses, or used "UFO" as an excuse (either intended or accidental) to cover-up improper, forbidden, or diplomatically delicate activities (such as aviation incidents involving dangerous accidental or deliberate close passes or intercepts of civilian airliners, or overseas excursions of agents on intelligence missions where deflection of local perceptions was useful, or to conceal from the country of origin the possession of foreign military hardware), or played pranks and jokes on intended or accidental targets, or any other activity that the government -- or any part of it -- wanted to keep hidden, knowing that having it thought of as "UFO-related" would consign it to the never-never- land of myth and nuttiness, thus keeping mainstream media attention to a minimum. And it's worked!!


MOD edit - changed color of link to make it stand out
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Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

Hidden Hand wrote:James Oberg - OTHER gov't UFO secrets / Open Letter to CSETI

Originally posted to usenet in 1997, it has been spread across the net since then. I'm copying & pasting the most relevant bits from Blue Resonant Human copying it to the UFO Updates mailing list

I apologize for the lengthy quote, I tried really hard to summarize this down to a soundbite, and just decided it was important enough to just excerpt verbatim:


Great post once again HH :)

I've read a lot about BRH lately. I see some people refer to "him" as actually being part of a quartet, with (a) certain individual(s) involved in the Serpo story featuring prominently. I've also seen mentioned that Blue Resonant Human is actually the son of one of those individuals... :shock:

Anyone care to say more?

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Postby Hidden Hand » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:08 am

Zep - Ya got me - I hadn't heard that! (If memory serves, BRH's heyday was when either I wasn't connected to the net or was taking sabbatical from UFOs - by the time I first heard of BRH, he had left the building - I guess, "allegedly"..) But I can guess what that refers to (the colors match?) Have any links, or should I just fire up Google?

Edit: What you've read is always possible - but from some reading, my best guess is trolling. Whoever actually posted as "Blue Resonant Human Quartet" in 2004 sounds nothing at all like BRH. And all the threads supposedly outing BRH in 2001/2002 are classic trolling.
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Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:51 am

You could well be right HH, wrt trolling.

I have the brotherblue archive somewhere around here, and I know it is also archived at the wayback machine. There is some very interesting articles contained in those pages.

What happened to the site and BRH, anyone know?

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Postby Xena » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am

Can I just say that whoever the real BRH is whether spook, son of spook or just researcher, he's my hero, LMAO. The use of colourful grammar such "doth bleet", and "wax lyrical" are forever implanted in my thoughts.

Some of his earliest posts on usenet are still on google groups and can be found here

but I'm just not sure about the later incarnations and particularly the present one known as 'http://peaceinspace.com" Odd innit??

MOD edit - made link stand out.
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Postby Hidden Hand » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:04 pm

Further to my last post.

BRH was "outed" as the son of an alleged member of the 'Aviary' - this repeatedly occurred on Usenet during 2001-2002. I have yet to find a BRH "outing" message that contains anything like evidence of this claim.

The threads I looked at containing the "outing" posts are also overflowing with classic trolling activity.

The "Blue Resonant Human Quartet" posts appeared on Usenet during one week in May 2004. Google finds 147 posts with that phrase, of which all but 30 are "similar" (likely just the sig file quoted by respondents). BRH Quartet's posts contain a sig file including the (alleged) quartet's and son's names.

I don't believe BRH Quartet is the same author as BRH, based on style & substance.

Bottom line - anyone can append anybody's name to the sig of a Usenet post. Doesn't mean that that is who actually wrote the post. (for other examples of this, start reading here :)

In a good mood, I'd say those Usenet threads are pure trolling (and I'm not really willing to put in any more time to find something of substance in there - a needle search through Usenet flame wars isn't my idea of a good time or a good bet.)

In a more paranoid mood, I might suspect somebody was trying to smear somebody pretty cool (BRH) using "guilt by association".

(BTW - those posts are easily found using Google Groups, so I didn't bother linking or quoting.)

MOD edit - make link stand out
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Postby Hidden Hand » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:01 am

Aaugh... that was a weird trip down the rabbit hole. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can obey the board rules and post what I've found. I'm still dubious about any claim that BRH was a spook - but freely admit I'm not sure who wrote what - looking into this, it is not clear who - or what - to believe.

Which (to me) is what this whole thing is all about anyway..

Zep - you started this off saying you'd read about BRH being a spook - did you ever see any evidence, or anything else about this?
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Postby Xena » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:55 am

Another thing about BRH is the somewhat agressive and inflammatory content of his website for example the page about Bill Hamilton's wife:). When you comnpare say for instance, the image content tags with some of the more recent posts from 2000 onwards, you could easily believe he is the same person throughout the usenet postings, but then I've not really read much of the new stuff, as I focussed on the ones available from 94-98. I did note recently that the group is obsessed with someone they call Alexa.
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