The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

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The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby Access Denied » Thu May 01, 2008 3:55 am

I noticed ITF posted this on ATS a while back after being confronted with Cooper’s belief that he saw ET craft…

No need to apologize. As we members mature so do our views and opinions, thus old threads dug up become new again with fresh discussion.

I for one, with the stuff in this thread, have to go back and re-think my original position concerning this subject... something that you do not see a skeptic like myself admit to very often.

Uh oh… lost another one to the dark side. :)

While I applaud your willingness to modify your position in the face of “new” evidence, I urge you to read (if you haven’t already) this piece by James Oberg who I believe has really done his homework on this case, and decide for yourself how “credible” Gordon Cooper’s claims really are…

The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs
http://www.zip.com.au/~psmith/cooper.html

[those who know me will know why I find the UFO “landing” on Haystack Butte at Edwards particularly amusing]

The failure of UFOlogy to verify claims like his and allow them to perpetuate indefinitely has no doubt contributed significantly to the ability of the hoaxers and charlatans to restart the mythology cycle with each new generation.

Case in point, another Edwards AFB sighting will be rehashed tonight on TV…

UFO Hunters: Code Red

"How would the military respond if UFOs suddenly invaded restricted U.S. airspace? It allegedly happened, and the team gets a rare interview with the Military Air Traffic Controller who was there, and uncovers remastered audio tapes and radar imaging that reconstructs a shocking, little known series of events over the southwest United States."

Note the word “remastered”… apparently the guy spliced the tape up claiming it had been “scrambled” and then “reconstructed” it to fit his preconceived notion.

http://www.nicap.org/edwards65b.htm

"Shocking" indeed.
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Thu May 01, 2008 4:28 am

Good stuff, thank you very much I'm only half way through it, and have a lot so say already!

I'll digest this and put some thoughts out there when I'm done.
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby lost_shaman » Thu May 01, 2008 5:28 am

Access Denied wrote:Note the word “remastered”… apparently the guy spliced the tape up claiming it had been “scrambled” and then “reconstructed” it to fit his preconceived notion.


Yeah, AD you forgot to mention that other people interviewed also had their "Brains" "scrambled" and their "Memories" "reconstructed" in order to fit with the "preconceived notions" of the 'guy' who "remastered" the tape. :roll: Damn MIB's!!! =P~

Also, AD I read this to have been "scrambled" in the analog sense not "scrambled" in the digital sense. BIG difference! :wink:
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Thu May 01, 2008 5:52 am

Ah, so Copper just expressed interest in the subject when asked, the same interest as you or I and it seems that interest was blown out of proportion just because it came from and "astronaut". I can see how that could happen.

Folks will do use anything to bolster what they already believe in and to convince others they are right. Sad. But in a way I'm jealous too. I wish my curiosity could be satisfied with utter rubbish and complete lack of reason;)

And damn, that UFO hunters thing is a travesty, lol.
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby Access Denied » Thu May 08, 2008 6:22 am

Mandatory reading for RU members, Tim and Jay do an excellent job on this one…

Smoking Gun Case: UFO Officer and Code Red
http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-the ... e-red.html

Looks like OP never saw it coming.
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Thu May 08, 2008 12:37 pm

Good thread, I've been following that one.
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby Zep Tepi » Thu May 08, 2008 1:33 pm

Agreed, excellent thread.

Cheers,
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu May 08, 2008 3:10 pm

Ditto. Excellent thread. And it makes two points I have made here in recent weeks:

1) UFO Hunters is purposefully dramatized to "suck you in" (if you are subject to believing things easily) and the majority of their "team" jump to conclusions with insufficient evidence or cause. As a minimum both Pat Uskert and Bill Birnes are acting as propaganda artists. The only guy I have respect for is Ted Acworth and some of the people they employ who go to GREAT LENGTHS to show plausible explanations through experiments.

2) Providing "evidence by YouTube linking" is mindless, and just as bad as providing a link with a huge amount of text and not quoting the SPECIFIC parts that are relevant to one's argument. It is a cop out and it leads to VERY weak arguments (or no arguments at all!) from the people who keep saying "just watch all the videos". It is on the same order of how "zplix" constructs his arguments.

This kind of crap should not be tolerated, and I will once again raise my glass to the RU team for establishing and maintaining high standards of evidence that reject non-evidentiary approaches like this. This place will NEVER be subject to falling down the pit that ATS has as long as it maintains those standards and the integrity required to enforce them.

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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby Access Denied » Fri May 09, 2008 7:05 am

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:This kind of crap should not be tolerated, and I will once again raise my glass to the RU team for establishing and maintaining high standards of evidence that reject non-evidentiary approaches like this. This place will NEVER be subject to falling down the pit that ATS has as long as it maintains those standards and the integrity required to enforce them.

No pressure there. :)

I think Steve's new tag line "Searching for the answers, passionate about the truth" sums it up pretty well.

[brilliant Steve, that’s new right? lol]

Personally I'd like to see RU become sort of a middle ground between "believers" (searching for the answers) and "skeptics” (passionate about the truth)… a place where both can come together, collaborate, and learn from each other without the distraction of ulterior motives and hidden agendas that dominate these kind of topics practically everywhere else you look.

[yeah I know, dream on]

Seems like somebody’s always got something to prove or something to sell and nobody that just wants to share what they believe or have learned can get a word in edgewise and in the end nobody walks away with any clearer understanding and no real progress made… or worse wind up more confused and disillusioned than when they started and just walk way period. Not exactly my idea of a good time had by all…

[sigh]
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby ryguy » Fri May 09, 2008 6:05 pm

Great posts... I'm really glad to read that people feel this way about RU.

As far as those standards, those will be easy enough to maintain..especially with the mind-set and mixture of belief systems even within the current management of 3. :)

However integrity is a harder one. The last thing I'd want to say is that RU maintains more integrity than anyone else. Every person drives their own car based on a particular moral compass - and unfortunatly too many people are quick to point out the misalignment of someone else's moral compass while they, themselves, are driving directly toward a brick wall. The last thing I'd want to say is that we have more integrity than anyone else.

So, on integrity, what we can say is that we will strive to gain wisdom from mistakes of the past, remain open today to insight and advice from people with good intentions, and we are hopeful that our choices in the future will be the right ones.

Anyone else out there who can do those three things - admit to past mistakes, accept advice, and keep trying to do the right thing in the future - in my book they have the integrity that Ray describes. And I agree that those characteristics are critical to avoid the pitfalls that so many paranormal websites and forums have fallen into.

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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Fri May 09, 2008 6:37 pm

ryguy wrote:However integrity is a harder one. The last thing I'd want to say is that RU maintains more integrity than anyone else. Every person drives their own car based on a particular moral compass - and unfortunatly too many people are quick to point out the misalignment of someone else's moral compass while they, themselves, are driving directly toward a brick wall. The last thing I'd want to say is that we have more integrity than anyone else.

So, on integrity, what we can say is that we will strive to gain wisdom from mistakes of the past, remain open today to insight and advice from people with good intentions, and we are hopeful that our choices in the future will be the right ones.

Anyone else out there who can do those three things - admit to past mistakes, accept advice, and keep trying to do the right thing in the future - in my book they have the integrity that Ray describes. And I agree that those characteristics are critical to avoid the pitfalls that so many paranormal websites and forums have fallen into.



Understood, and agree Ryan. But perhaps I should clarify what I meant by "integrity". What I was referring to is simply "sticking to the principles you have laid out." Not so much an issue of morality. The RU charter makes it clear that part of your "morality" is based on providing clear evidence for claims. So to me, you would retain "high integrity" as long as you "follow the principles you have set out." People can always argue those principles, and that is where the relative moral compass fits in. But no one should question your integrity if you do what you say you are going to do. In fact, this is often how we define the "integrity" of a system... does it do what you said it would do? It may not turn out it was the RIGHT thing to do, based on your stated goals for the system, but the system had the integrity that it accomplished what it was designed to accomplish.

That's what I was getting at! :)
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby Zep Tepi » Fri May 09, 2008 8:17 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:This kind of crap should not be tolerated, and I will once again raise my glass to the RU team for establishing and maintaining high standards of evidence that reject non-evidentiary approaches like this. This place will NEVER be subject to falling down the pit that ATS has as long as it maintains those standards and the integrity required to enforce them.


Thanks Ray, it's always nice to be reminded that people do 'get' what we are about here. If we ever do start to let our standards slip, (I can't see that ever happening, but stranger things have happened at sea... apparently!) please feel free to shoot one of us as a warning ;)

Access Denied wrote:I think Steve's new tag line "Searching for the answers, passionate about the truth" sums it up pretty well.

[brilliant Steve, that’s new right? lol]


Yeah, the "passionate about the truth" has been added to it. Glad you like it :)

Personally I'd like to see RU become sort of a middle ground between "believers" (searching for the answers) and "skeptics” (passionate about the truth)… a place where both can come together, collaborate, and learn from each other without the distraction of ulterior motives and hidden agendas that dominate these kind of topics practically everywhere else you look.


Absolutely. I was a "believer" too, not too long ago. Not a believer in the sense that I carried on believing even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, but a believer as per your description above. Those who continue to believe and promote horse manure despite the evidence, they aren't believers, they are playing a game and deluding themselves.

Seems like somebody’s always got something to prove or something to sell and nobody that just wants to share what they believe or have learned can get a word in edgewise and in the end nobody walks away with any clearer understanding and no real progress made… or worse wind up more confused and disillusioned than when they started and just walk way period. Not exactly my idea of a good time had by all…


I agree. The number of people who fit into that category is probably huge by now. The Internet is great for the information that can be found on any particular subject, but not so great when you consider the signal to noise ratio. How does a "newbie" know where to begin? Pot luck mostly, I would wager.

ryguy wrote:As far as those standards, those will be easy enough to maintain..especially with the mind-set and mixture of belief systems even within the current management of 3. :)


I agree -and if not, one of us gets shot as per above ;)

However integrity is a harder one. The last thing I'd want to say is that RU maintains more integrity than anyone else.


Again, I agree completely. As long as we remain true to our stated goals (as Ray outlined above), we will have no problems.

As for the "other" integrity, well, that can be a hard one. In all of my own, personal actions over these last 2-3 years (in this particular field), I can honestly say that throughout that time I have always tried to be true to myself. Sure, we've done some things that some people have seen as lacking in integrity and that's fair enough, people are entitled to their opinions. The way I see it though, the only times we've ever done anything that can be questioned in that way, I have decided that normal rules simply do not apply to those who are not deserving of it. True, that may sound arrogant and it probably is, but if someone tells me I have to afford those same courtesies and respect to lying, manipulative and scheming little scumbags, well I'm sorry - it ain't gonna happen. If they don't play by the rules then don't get upset about it when I employ similar tactics. Just so there's no ambiguity here, I'm talking about people who have been underhanded with me, not scumbags in general... ;)

It's all about searching for the answers, always has been, always will be.

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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Fri May 09, 2008 9:13 pm

Zep Tepi wrote: The way I see it though, the only times we've ever done anything that can be questioned in that way, I have decided that normal rules simply do not apply to those who are not deserving of it. True, that may sound arrogant and it probably is, but if someone tells me I have to afford those same courtesies and respect to lying, manipulative and scheming little scumbags, well I'm sorry - it ain't gonna happen. If they don't play by the rules then don't get upset about it when I employ similar tactics.


It all boils down to a basic (and simple) question:

How do you reveal the truth behind the actions of others who are not telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

There can be many answers, at many levels of depth, to this question. Simple logical analysis will lead anyone to the logical conclusion that one may have to lie to the liars in order to expose them. It's nothing more than boolean logic computations, folks. And the proof that it works and is useful is manifest in the device you use to post here and elsewhere on the internet.

Nuff said...
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby calcoastseeker » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:38 am

Hello to all,

While endlessly searching the internet for any forums that may deal with this subject I stumbled upon this one. I had to join and post my information for the members of this forum. I hope you will read it with an open mind.

I am retired military, U.S.Navy. My first duty station after apprentice training was at Naval Station,Adak,Alaska. I was assigned to the fire department as a fireman. I was not to keen on the idea of riding on the back step of a fire truck or fighting fires so being a reasonably intelligent person and one of the few in the department that completed high school and could read and write, I got the job of department dispatcher.

It was a nice desk job,I worked 7-4, 5 days a week and when all the other guys were out training,I hung out in the dispatch office with one of the civilian fire chiefs.There was 5 of them, 4 at the fire station and one was assigned as the crash crew chief at the airfield.

What was so unusual about these fellows was they were in their 50's and all near the end of their careers, and prior to coming out to the island, they had worked at the fire/crash department at Edwards/Muroc Air Force Base!

This was in the early 70's so most of their early career (late 40's,50's and 60's )was at Edwards/Muroc during the period when all the experimental testing was going on there. I became really close with the fire chief Ed Ash and an assistant chief Ron Cotton.

They knew all the Mercury astronauts plus anybody else that went through there. They recovered Edwards body the guy the base was named after. Yeager,Cooper,Armstrong they knew them all.

In the book/movie "The Right Stuff", there is a scene where the character based on Chuck Yeager bailed out of the plane when he lost control of it and he comes walking out of the desert carrying his chute. Of course we all know this actually happened.A pick up truck comes driving up to retrieve him. Well, in real life they were those guys and they seriously thought they were looking for a body!

It was many years after they told me that story, that I saw it re-enacted on the big screen and realized that I had heard this story before. I was the idiot standing up in the theater pointing at the screen saying,"Hey I know those guys!"

Well of course I heard many hours of them telling me story's of their adventures at Murdoc/Edwards during this period. Tales of them working with all the early astronauts and now famous test pilots and the various experimental planes and the record breaking flights they witnessed.

I remember once asking Ed and Ron if they had ever witnessed anything "weird" or unusual.Ron looked at Ed and after a moment he said,"some of the things we saw were literally out of this world."

I didn't think much about it at the time and even later on thought they were talking of the SR-71 or the U-2, you know exotic conventional planes. But, since reading about Cooper's encounter at Edwards with the saucer landing there and the possible visit of "Ike" at Edwards with "ET visitors” and some of the other statements coming out from people who also was at Edwards when there were encounters with "craft", I now know what they were talking about. And I believe them to be true.
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Wired magazine had an article about Edwards and the Dryden Nasa flight facility on their web site. I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw this accompanying picture. That is Ed on the left with his back to the camera, and Ron looking at the photographer taking the photograph.

And since then, while reading Brian Vikes blog on military UFO's I found this.I will link to it because I don't want to take information from his blog. This encounter took place a year after I left the island.The picture below is one I found on a "Adak Survivors" web forum. I will include it so you may see the distance between the crash station and the control tower mentioned in the story.
http://militaryufo.blogspot.com/2008/03/adak-island-alaska-ufo-hovers-letter.html
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Re: The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs

Postby Access Denied » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:57 am

Hello calcoastseeker, welcome to RU and thank you for sharing this with us.

calcoastseeker wrote:I remember once asking Ed and Ron if they had ever witnessed anything "weird" or unusual.Ron looked at Ed and after a moment he said,"some of the things we saw were literally out of this world."

Not too surprising actually, lots of rumors floating around about Edwards. I wonder if they might be talking about, or were involved in, the same story Cooper heard?

calcoastseeker wrote:I didn't think much about it at the time and even later on thought they were talking of the SR-71 or the U-2, you know exotic conventional planes. But, since reading about Cooper's encounter at Edwards with the saucer landing there and the possible visit of "Ike" at Edwards with "ET visitors” and some of the other statements coming out from people who also was at Edwards when there were encounters with "craft", I now know what they were talking about. And I believe them to be true.

Did your read the article about Cooper I linked to earlier in this thread?

The Hunt for Gordon Cooper’s UFOs
http://www.zip.com.au/~psmith/cooper.html

Apparently the UFO that “landed” was most likely… don’t laugh… a weather balloon... and Cooper didn't have anything to do with it. Also, it appears the story about “Ike” is based on the assertion of a “questionable” individual and some "contactees"…

Did President Eisenhower Meet with Aliens in 1954?
http://www.ufocasebook.com/1954eisenhoweraliens.html

calcoastseeker wrote:And since then, while reading Brian Vikes blog on military UFO's I found this.I will link to it because I don't want to take information from his blog. This encounter took place a year after I left the island.

Interesting, I noticed this…

Soon afterwards, or after the event was over which left a lot of men scratching their heads, the officer of the day showed up and confronted the men and told them what they all saw was "Ball Lightning". Art's response to the officer of the day was, if that was ball lightning, then it had to be the largest display of lightning on record.

At first glance I have to admit I don’t see any reason why that possibility can be ruled out completely… or some very unusual atmospheric phenomenon similar to it. I wonder what the weather was like that day? Too bad the pictures apparently aren’t available… even if they just appeared to be bright lights they might be useful.

Anyway, that's my thoughts after a quick look... I'll have to ponder this some more. :)
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