So, will the Info prove the rumours?

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So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Chorlton » Wed May 14, 2008 8:41 am

Looks like the UK MOD will be releasing files this week, it was even on newsnight last night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/20 ... oming.html

I wonder if there will be any serious revelations?
Update:
Tim Good now on BBC TV breakfast getting on the bandwagon. He must have another book due out?
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Zep Tepi » Wed May 14, 2008 12:17 pm

Heh. Nick Pope will be on Sky News later too.

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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed May 14, 2008 2:56 pm

Nick Pope is now an "indepedent expert on the unexplained???"

Oh puhleeze. Can someone please pass the antacid tablets? :)

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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Chorlton » Wed May 14, 2008 4:06 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Nick Pope is now an "indepedent expert on the unexplained???"
Oh puhleeze. Can someone please pass the antacid tablets? :)
Ray


When I met him he was like the schoolboy nerd. I still dont trust him though. He would have signed the Official Secrets Act, yet he's still allowed to spout off? HMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

OH yes ! Tim Good, explaining the two, mile long UFO's spotted over the Channel Islands last year says they were 'cunningly disguised as cloud'. Using that analogy, I saw a dozen ET's at lunchtime today, cunningly disguised as drunks.
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Gary » Thu May 15, 2008 4:04 am

Chorlton wrote:OH yes ! Tim Good, explaining the two, mile long UFO's spotted over the Channel Islands last year says they were 'cunningly disguised as cloud'. Using that analogy, I saw a dozen ET's at lunchtime today, cunningly disguised as drunks.


You should pay closer attention to the latest developments in --human-- technology:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0805.2050


In the last two years, cloaking devices received unprecedented attention from the scientific community. Linear
coordinate transformations have been applied in order to manipulate the electromagnetic characteristics of the
propagation medium [1]–[3]. These techniques originate in the theory of General Relativity and conformal mapping
procedures.

After the transformations, the medium which is produced, the cloaking shell, is able to guide the
electromagnetic waves around an object without any disturbances and reflections. This is like the waves are
propagating through the free space. Hence, the object is practically “invisible” to an exterior viewer. The permittivity and permeability of such a cloaking shell are anisotropic and dispersive as was first demonstrated by Pendry et al.
[1].
The most appropriate materials for the production of the cloak’s electromagnetic characteristics are the recently
discovered metamaterials [4]. They are artificial materials with extraordinary electromagnetic properties which
cannot be obtained in nature.



[Mod Edit: trimmed quote]
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Access Denied » Thu May 15, 2008 4:20 am

[from memory, not exact quotes]

At lunch today at work Steven Basset was on Fox News ostensibly there to discuss the “new” MoD files and he was going on about the “Rockefeller Initiative” yada yada (he even claimed the US hasn’t released their secret UFO files… doesn’t anybody remember Blue Book?!) and then Shepard Smith (news guy) said something like “So what do you think they [the aliens] want?” and Basset nervously chuckles “Well, I think we need to find out!” and then Shepard says “No we don’t, I think it’s a load of crap!” and moved on to the next story…

Priceless.
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Chorlton » Thu May 15, 2008 8:08 am

Gary wrote:You should pay closer attention to the latest developments in --human-- technology:

Have you got any evidence of this --human-- technology being used on on any, inanimate object, let alone 2 alleged mile long UFO's?, and if they were disguised as clouds, how come only 2 pilots seen them and the entire population of the Channel Islands didnt?
Its one thing to point someone towards some proven technology that has been tested time and time again on many diferent objects but another to point someone towards some futuristic technology thats probably only been tested on
something that exists in a laboratory.


[Mod Edit: trimmed quote]
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Access Denied » Thu May 15, 2008 8:39 am

Chorlton, I suggest you ignore our resident pseudoscientific disinformationalist... rest assured he doesn't know what he's talking about but he likes others to think he does by connecting dots that aren't really there. ;)

Apparently he didn’t even read the paper he posted lol…

“Furthermore, the ideal cloaking realization is impossible in theory due to the wave nature of light.”

Gary, do you know what anisotropic means? No fair looking it up.
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Gary » Thu May 15, 2008 2:09 pm

Yes, and the atomic bomb was also once considered "impossible."

It is Professor Michio Kaku's opinion that we will obtain cloaking / screening capability in the near future. Certainly long before deep space travel becomes practical.

Sounds like a MASINT problem to me :-)

You are also assuming the "UFO" was a solid material object and not a "swarm" of nano-scale devices.

Clarke's law comes to mind. So many possibilities, so many close minds!
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Gary » Thu May 15, 2008 2:12 pm

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2006/05/70997

"Is it science fiction? Well, it's theory and that already is not science fiction. It's theoretically possible to do all these Harry Potter things, but what's standing in the way is our engineering capabilities," said John Pendry, a physicist at the Imperial College London.

Details of the study, which Pendry co-wrote, appear in Thursday's online edition of the journal Science.

Scientists not involved in the work said it presents a solid case for making invisibility an attainable goal.


"Yes, you could actually make someone invisible as long as someone wears a cloak made of this material," said Patanjali Parimi, a Northeastern University physicist and design engineer at Chelton Microwave in Bolton, Massachusetts. Parimi was not involved in the research.

Such a cloak does not exist, but early versions that could mask microwaves and other forms of electromagnetic radiation could be as close as 18 months away, Pendry said. He said the study was "an invitation to come and play with these new ideas."

"We will have a cloak after not too long," he said.

The Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency supported the research, given the obvious military applications of such stealthy technology.
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Gary » Thu May 15, 2008 2:23 pm

Access Denied wrote:Chorlton, I suggest you ignore our resident pseudoscientific disinformationalist... rest assured he doesn't know what he's talking about but he likes others to think he does by connecting dots that aren't really there. ;)

Apparently he didn’t even read the paper he posted lol…

“Furthermore, the ideal cloaking realization is impossible in theory due to the wave nature of light.”

Gary, do you know what anisotropic means? No fair looking it up.


Did you read this from the same paper:

"... The wave bends inside the cloaking device in order to avoid the “cloaked” object as expected. The wave
trajectory is recomposed without any disturbance behind the cloaking shell. Therefore, the object inside the cloaking structure is like it does not exist, like it is “invisible”. Mind that for this type of cloaking devices there are no constraints about the size and the material type of the object which will become “invisible”."
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Access Denied » Fri May 16, 2008 7:38 am

Gary wrote:Yes, and the atomic bomb was also once considered "impossible."

Nothing is impossible to the man who doesn’t have to do it himself.

Gary wrote:It is Professor Michio Kaku's opinion that we will obtain cloaking / screening capability in the near future. Certainly long before deep space travel becomes practical.

See above. Clearly the authors of the paper you cited disagree… note their use of the word “cloaked” and “invisible” in parentheses. Care to explain the limitations to the audience you endeavor to deceive?

Gary wrote:Sounds like a MASINT problem to me :-)

Sounds like a lame excuse for ZERO EVIDENCE to me :-)

Gary wrote:You are also assuming the "UFO" was a solid material object and not a "swarm" of nano-scale devices.

No Gary, I’m not assuming anything but clearly you’re assuming the “UFO” is from outer space and it’s invisible… personally I’d rather keep an open mind and cross that bridge if and when we come to it.

Gary wrote:Clarke's law comes to mind. So many possibilities, so many close minds!

Au contraire said the Tortoise to the Hare… how do you know we’re not a von Neumann probe that hasn’t completed the task it was designed for yet?

Ad Astra! 8)

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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Gary » Fri May 16, 2008 3:56 pm

Clearly I am NOT interested in UFOs as space aliens. However -- the reasoning used to dismiss such a possibility is clearly flawed since human technical progress in the open world (how many open world atomic bombs existed in 1945 BTW?) already points to such possibilities.

Historical precedent shows that "black world" technology may be ahead of the open-world game by some ten to fifteen years or more. The government has been known to create multiple redundant programs since the white open-world hand doesn't know what the black hand is doing behind closed budgets.
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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby ryguy » Fri May 16, 2008 4:39 pm

Gary wrote:Historical precedent shows that "black world" technology may be ahead of the open-world game by some ten to fifteen years or more. The government has been known to create multiple redundant programs since the white open-world hand doesn't know what the black hand is doing behind closed budgets.


Historical precedent also shows that delusional and semi-delusional folks have, for many, many years, speculated about all of the weird and wild research programs being conducted "behind closed budgets."

You can't claim to know what those programs are any more than anyone else can. Pointing to now disclosed programs such as the atomic research is pointless - of course the government is researching technologies that, to most within the mainstream, would seem quite far-fetched. But for you to claim to know which alleged technologies are being pursued and which aren't is disingenious - and it only feeds the paranoid beliefs that con-men need to exist in order to get wealthy benefactors to fund their erroneous research.

Of course - maybe that's the whole point behind Starstream Research I suppose.

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Re: So, will the Info prove the rumours?

Postby Gary » Mon May 19, 2008 2:36 am

ryguy wrote:Historical precedent also shows that delusional and semi-delusional folks have, for many, many years, speculated about all of the weird and wild research programs being conducted "behind closed budgets."

You can't claim to know what those programs are any more than anyone else can. Pointing to now disclosed programs such as the atomic research is pointless - of course the government is researching technologies that, to most within the mainstream, would seem quite far-fetched. But for you to claim to know which alleged technologies are being pursued and which aren't is disingenious - and it only feeds the paranoid beliefs that con-men need to exist in order to get wealthy benefactors to fund their erroneous research.

Of course - maybe that's the whole point behind Starstream Research I suppose.

-Ry


Re: the whole point behind SSR: Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) reveals a great deal about what remains hidden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Intelligence

Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) is an information processing discipline that involves finding, selecting, and acquiring information from publicly available sources and analyzing it to produce actionable intelligence. In the Intelligence Community (IC), the term "open" refers to overt, publicly available sources (as opposed to covert or classified sources); it is not related to open-source software. OSINT includes a wide variety of information and sources.

Open source information provides a base for understanding classified materials. Despite large quantities of classified material produced by the IC, the amount of classified information produced on any one topic can be quite limited, and may be taken out of context if viewed only from a classified-source perspective ... Open source materials can protect sources and methods. Sometimes an intelligence judgment that is actually informed with sensitive, classified information can be defended on the basis of open source reporting. This can prove useful when policymakers need to explain policy decisions or communicate with foreign officials without compromising classified sources ...
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