MOD Unclassified documents

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MOD Unclassified documents

Postby Chorlton » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:06 pm

Heres some light reading for you from the UK MOD

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Freed ... ummary.htm

Try the 5.3meg PFD file.

Interesting stuff
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby Gary » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:48 am

Very interesting, indeed. Perhaps more than you realize.

http://www.electrofluidsystems.com/index2.html
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby lost_shaman » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:46 am

Gary wrote:Very interesting, indeed. Perhaps more than you realize.

http://www.electrofluidsystems.com/index2.html


You're right Gary that the report is very interesting, but what IS interesting in the report has very little if nothing at all to do with potential technological innovations and everything to do with 1.) strange and naturally occurring aerial phenomena that exist in the atmosphere, and 2.) appearantly represent a rather large percentage of those 'pesky' "Unknowns" that get reported as 'UFO's' inside the UK Air Defence Region, and 3.) these naturally occurring aerial phenomena do in fact pose a very small but not completely insignificant threat to Military and Commercial aviation.

For reasons 1, 2 & 3, the hitherto referenced 'Condign' report is extremely interesting.
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby Gary » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:31 pm

Key points of interest:

"That UAP [UFO] exist is indisputable."

"... it seems that a field with, as yet, undetermined characteristics, can exist between certain buoyant objects in loose formation, such that, depending on the viewing aspect, the intervening space between them forms an area (viewed as a shape, often triangular), from which the reflection of light does not occur. This is a key finding in the attribution of what have frequently been reported as black 'craft';' often triangular and even up to hundreds of feet in length."

It does seem they are grasping at straws here: "A field, as yet, undetermined ..." which apparently violates known laws of physics?

On the other hand, that might also be suggestive of "swarming" technology, a direction of research now popular at NASA.
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby lost_shaman » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:08 pm

Gary wrote:Key points of interest:

"That UAP [UFO] exist is indisputable."

"... it seems that a field with, as yet, undetermined characteristics, can exist between certain buoyant objects in loose formation, such that, depending on the viewing aspect, the intervening space between them forms an area (viewed as a shape, often triangular), from which the reflection of light does not occur. This is a key finding in the attribution of what have frequently been reported as black 'craft';' often triangular and even up to hundreds of feet in length."

It does seem they are grasping at straws here: "A field, as yet, undetermined ..." which apparently violates known laws of physics?


First you are taking things out of context here. What is specifically discussed is the potential observation of multiple OBJECTS (UAP) in a formation where observers may observe "the intervening space between them" as a shape. There is no violation of "known laws of physics" here.


Gary wrote:On the other hand, that might also be suggestive of "swarming" technology, a direction of research now popular at NASA.


Gary,

Technology is good, technology is great, but technology has nothing what-so-ever to do with UAP as outlined in the Condign report.
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby Gary » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:27 am

Are you taking into account sightings in broad daylight? Also the physics of the plasmas is not explained.

More interesting is uap_vol2_pgs61to75.pdf on exotic technologies, evidence of interest in torsion spin fields:

"These fields have been the subject of research since 1913 (EINSTEIN) and E. CARTON, BLONDO (france), MYSHKIN and SHIPOV (Russia), HALT (NASA-USA). Torsion Engines, Generators and Torsion waves have been research (especially in the Former Soviet Union, at the Inter-Industry Research Centre, MOSCOW). These are claimed to be waves which travel at 5 to 20 times the speed of light. Main Russian/CIS workers are KOZYREV, YEGANOVA, L. PUGACH ..."
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby Gary » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:33 am

lost_shaman wrote:
Gary wrote:Key points of interest:

"That UAP [UFO] exist is indisputable."

"... it seems that a field with, as yet, undetermined characteristics, can exist between certain buoyant objects in loose formation, such that, depending on the viewing aspect, the intervening space between them forms an area (viewed as a shape, often triangular), from which the reflection of light does not occur. This is a key finding in the attribution of what have frequently been reported as black 'craft';' often triangular and even up to hundreds of feet in length."

It does seem they are grasping at straws here: "A field, as yet, undetermined ..." which apparently violates known laws of physics?


First you are taking things out of context here. What is specifically discussed is the potential observation of multiple OBJECTS (UAP) in a formation where observers may observe "the intervening space between them" as a shape. There is no violation of "known laws of physics" here.


Gary wrote:On the other hand, that might also be suggestive of "swarming" technology, a direction of research now popular at NASA.


Gary,

Technology is good, technology is great, but technology has nothing what-so-ever to do with UAP as outlined in the Condign report.


I think you are misreading this, since they appear to be discussing a real field effect not a psychological misinterpretation.

Read paragraph 48 on page 2-11:

"When the radiator is too cold to radiate a significant amount of energy in the optical region, it will completely absorb any optical radiation which falls on it and hence would be 'seen' as a totally black object. NOTE: This later statement would seem to have a significant read-across to frequent UAP sightings where a black shape (often rectangular or triangular) is seen between visible lights at the extremities."
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby lost_shaman » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:36 pm

Gary wrote:Are you taking into account sightings in broad daylight?


Gary,

I guess I was a little vague, sorry for that. That 'space in between the multiple UAP' (or "lights" in case of a single UAP) according to the report would be a field or a less energetic state of plasma which basically would absorb or reflect light creating a 'shape' between the UAP or 'lights' in some cases. I didn't mean to imply a psychological misinterpretation.

Gary wrote:Also the physics of the plasmas is not explained.


I can agree with that statement, it was the "apparently violates known laws of physics" that I disagreed with. Splitting hairs maybe, but I just didn't see any apparent 'violations of physics'. As you said above the plasmas simply are not yet fully explained and thus represent more or less a new field of study in plasma physics.
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby Gary » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:21 am

Yes, very interesting and I have to agree re: unknown physics, the problem doesn't appear to be intractable or involve new laws of physics (actually more advanced solutions don't either) -- that said, it does remain a mystery.

BTW ... my brother who teaches at the University of Utah reported observing a black triangle in full daylight over the mountains near Salt Lake City a few years ago.
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:43 am

Gary wrote:BTW ... my brother who teaches at the University of Utah reported observing a black triangle in full daylight over the mountains near Salt Lake City a few years ago.


Let's hope that the masses are still willing to accept the TR-3B story. I'd say there is enough technobabble in the "inside descriptions" of how this works to satisfy anyone. Gives me plenty of chuckles, that's for sure! The descriptions that talk about "89% gravity reduction" and then confuse aerospace principles of Mach number to try and get people to believe that even though it flies at such high Mach numbers, the g's felt during turns would be lowered along with the mass! BWAAAA HAHAHAHAHA! Love that!

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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby lost_shaman » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:30 am

Gary wrote:Yes, very interesting and I have to agree re: unknown physics, the problem doesn't appear to be intractable or involve new laws of physics (actually more advanced solutions don't either) -- that said, it does remain a mystery.


Agreed.


Gary wrote:BTW ... my brother who teaches at the University of Utah reported observing a black triangle in full daylight over the mountains near Salt Lake City a few years ago.


That is interesting, but not every 'triangle' reported will be a UAP. There are viable airframes that meet that simple visual discrption.

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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby Gary » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:42 pm

Curiously the object remained stationary, as if it was floating on an 'invisible field' :-)
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby lost_shaman » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:49 pm

Gary wrote:Curiously the object remained stationary, as if it was floating on an 'invisible field' :-)


How did the observation end?
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby Gary » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:10 am

I'm not certain but believe the object drifted out of sight or was no longer visible from their vehicle which may have been moving.

Meanwhile, in today's news:

UFOs hit Romanian plane

BUCHAREST, Romania, June 6 (UPI) -- The Romanian Defense Ministry has confirmed that a fighter plane was struck by four unidentified flying objects and released a video of the incident.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2008/06/06/ ... 212793074/

and additional details here:

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.ht ... _page_id=2

Chief investigator Commander Nicolae Grigorie said in the report: 'We can definitely say what this thing was not, but we cannot say what it was.'

The impact on a training flight above Transylvania took only 67 milliseconds and was recorded on an in-flight video camera.
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Re: MOD Unclassified documents

Postby lost_shaman » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:47 pm

Gary wrote:I'm not certain but believe the object drifted out of sight or was no longer visible from their vehicle which may have been moving.



All that can be said here is that people do report these type of observations. There really isn't anyway to say if your brother saw a UAP or if it was something else with so little information to go on.
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