Rotten to the Core

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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby suspicioso » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:08 pm

Excellent work, you're making significant progress in unravelling the story.
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:26 pm

Cheers Suspicioso, you can rest assured there is much more to come. :)
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby murnut » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:47 pm

So....what's the deal with Macabee?

Am I to take from this that BM embellished the story/stories?

I hope I am misinterpreting....BMac was someone I thought we could at least halfway trust.
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:09 pm

The one thing we have learned throughout our time "in the field", is you quite simply can't trust anyone! :shock:

Sad, but true.
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby murnut » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:26 am

Trust no one...does that apply to you also? :lol:

Seriously though, some have got to be more trustworthy than others.

BMac has always been high on that list for me.

Why is Dale more credible?

The fact that he stopped communicating with Ryan lessens his credibility...no?
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby ryguy » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:01 am

Hey Murnut - great questions.

I still trust Maccabee, to be honest. He's a believer, and he reports what he is told, what he sees, and what he is shown as he believes it to be true. The same could go for a lot of these guys, we have to remember that. When someone believes that the UFO phenomenon is extraterrestrial in nature - I mean really believes it, how difficult is it to convince them of other things by making use of a concept that they already believe? Just because Bruce reports on something he is told, and he believes to be true, sure doesn't make him a liar or a bad person.

The same could go for a few of the other folks who report information publicly. As far as Dale or Ernie goes - that's where the story goes deeper - and as we go deeper, there are motivations and circumstances (and other people involved), so it gets more important to stick to the core objective. Our goal isn't to understand who's a liar and who's not, or what the motivations are for every believer along the way who has ever bought into the story.

The ultimate goal is to identify the source of that core philosophy that was so publicized throughout the 1980's. Where did it come from? Who created it and why? That's where we're headed with this.

I like Dale, but I didn't say I trust him - only spoke to him and emailed a few times. I doubt he trusts me, he hardly knows me and already his view has been adversely skewed by folks who want this stuff to remain buried, unfortunately.

But that's alright. :)

The one thing Dale does have in his favor was his initial willingness to talk. My first impression of him was that he was very friendly, very open, and had absolutely nothing to hide - he was willing to discuss every single topic as straightforward as could be - which was very refreshing after talking with certain other folks who just ran circles around straightforward questions. He seemed quite unaware of anything at all that may have been going on related to what Collins published. Ernie, on the other hand, remains in hiding behind Collins and Doty.

Thanks for the questions.

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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:06 am

murnut wrote:Trust no one...does that apply to you also? :lol:


If you're looking for the truth, you most certainly can trust us. If you happen to be a member of Scammers Inc (not you personally!), then most probably not... ;)

Seriously though, some have got to be more trustworthy than others.


Absolutely. However, we have found those with a certain agenda to push to be lower down that particular scale.

Why is Dale more credible?

The fact that he stopped communicating with Ryan lessens his credibility...no?


Not really, he hasn't rescinded anything that he said in the interview or the emails. What he did say corroborates for the most part what we have already worked out for ourselves during this saga.
He has perhaps allowed himself to be influenced by some individuals, but that is something we have come across throughout this investigation and is something we are (unfortunately) used to.

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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby murnut » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:02 am

Thanks Gentlemen.

I believe we are on the same page here....or at least the same chapter.

I appreciate the no BS stance.
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby Yex » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:56 am

Of course, if the ETH aspect of the core story is indeed the biggest, most closely guarded secret, that may be the reason for the vigorous denials that he was the source-

"Dale (almost choking): I have no idea where all that came from?! That is absolutely not true!"

and

"but if somebody said that I told anybody that I ever said I have seen an alien craft at Wright Patterson AFB, or anywhere at all , that’s an incorrect statement. I’ve NEVER made that statement to anyone."

That would be my reaction if I thought the MIB hitmen might be on their way to pay me a visit :twisted:
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby Access Denied » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:33 am

Excellent article Ryan, thank you once again for your refreshingly original investigative reporting. The big picture is starting to look a little more focused. 8)

Yex wrote:That would be my reaction if I thought the MIB hitmen might be on their way to pay me a visit :twisted:

Confirmation bias

In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret new information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions and avoids information and interpretations which contradict prior beliefs. It is a type of cognitive bias and represents an error of inductive inference, or as a form of selection bias toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study or disconfirmation of an alternative hypothesis.

Confirmation bias is of interest in the teaching of critical thinking, as the skill is misused if rigorous critical scrutiny is applied only to evidence challenging a preconceived idea but not to evidence supporting it.

Case in point... even though Jesse Marcel lied, among other things, about his military career and his education, the “faithful” are willing to ignore it and accept his Roswell “testimony” as “gospel”... go figure.

In my opinion, probably more than anything else, it is the lack of critical thinking skills demonstrated on a daily basis in the field of UFOlogy that allows the hoaxers and charlatans to define it and cause the subject to be ridiculed by the mainstream and not be taken seriously by science.

But I digress...
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby suspicioso » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:58 am

Access Denied wrote:In my opinion, probably more than anything else, it is the lack of critical thinking skills demonstrated on a daily basis in the field of UFOlogy that allows the hoaxers and charlatans to define it and cause the subject to be ridiculed by the mainstream and not be taken seriously by science.


Actually the lack of critical thinking and common sense exhibited by some of the "professionals" in this case is something I find far more worrying, and indicates a weakness in training and recruitment that I can only hope has been subsequently fixed.
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby Access Denied » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:27 am

Good point, best classified as an "intelligence failure"... :wink:
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby ryguy » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:56 pm

Yex wrote:Of course, if the ETH aspect of the core story is indeed the biggest, most closely guarded secret, that may be the reason for the vigorous denials that he was the source-


Not the ETH aspect, but certainly the "social impact" aspect. People are so used to thinking about all of this in terms of aliens, that no one has even considered the fact that if the "professionals" have determined that the phenomenon isn't extraterrestrial, then they would want:

1. People (the public) to continue believing the phenomenon is extraterrestrial
2. Examine the phenomenon from the perspective of it's impact on people and their lives (the social impact)
3. Determine the source of the phenomenon by tracing back particular and controllable social memes

Unfortunately, scientists are human too...and they have human needs and desires that must be met, and at times those can superscede an original intent or "mission statement" of such an intellectual exercise as described above.

Ufology needs to stop entertaining the ETH as a given, or even a top hypothesis, and people need to quit acting like a bunch of lab rats by responding to every little morsel these elitist folks place in front of you. It's time for the clever folk within Ufology (there are LOTS of them, contrary to popular belief) to stand up, stop reacting, and start acting.

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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby ryguy » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:46 pm

Much of the information that Dan provided a year ago (January 2009) is quickly becoming relevant again. Turns out, much of the information Dan provided in this update was very accurate. Obviously it's just all heresy, but over the past year a lot of secondary emails/information occurred that supported just about everything Dan posted. I'm reposting here so that at least I've got a place to come back for reference.

I also need some insight from any readers/members on Paul Murad and Gordon Novel - not history, but current activities. BTW, is SG Stephen Greer and is he really that rich today?

Dan's post from January 2009:

Five minutes after the last post, CK called to renew his invitation, and I was on the road within a few more minutes. He said that he had a list of items to discuss.

The house is small and always cluttered, and now was rather more so, with the kitchen floor torn up. It had the feel of a bachelor pad. The son was still home from college, but wife and daughter were in California, where the young one was transferring to college. Enough said.

There were about two hours of entertaining monologue…….followed by one of the Stargate movies, a perennial favorite, especially in my presence, although CK claimed to have seen this one, a ‘hundred’ times.

To the best of my (faulty) recollection……

[There was never any mention of a possible change in our past protocol.]

The featured players, as usual, were Drosnin, Puthoff, Green, Novel, Doty, Collins, et al. Some parts of the stories were familiar, but there was considerable new material.

For instance…… Michael D was portrayed as remaining active, although I had not heard mention of him in some years.

MD’s Israeli (bible code) source was first portrayed by him as an Israeli female sorcerer, who latter turned out to be two Israeli mathematicians who remain under house detention in that country. Although MD is now PNG at the Pentagon, he had made considerable inroads there and elsewhere in DC, partly via Senator Pell. One of his Contacts was Gen. Clapper, then of the NRO. CK surmised(?) that MOSAD passed points of interest to the DIA/NRO through MD’s code. CK had previously claimed that some of the ‘successes’ of the 'real' Stargate RV program were just used as covers for conventional sources.

Then comes the Repositioning (1/07). This is now portrayed has having been engineered by Rumsfeld, as his last act in office. It was, in part, to overturn the takeover of the IC by State, engineered by Rice, early in the first Bush term.

Reenter MD, now utilizing a connection with Billy G. (It was pointed out that Gen. C is a devout fundamentalist, with a similar entourage.) MD was the intermediary between MOSAD and Billy G, conveying to him an embossed copy of a new Bible Code, CLAPPER DDI YES. BG takes this memento to GW who, duly impressed, follows the advice of the Good Book.

Do we believe this funny story? Are we supposed to? Your guess is as good as mine.

Now from the sublime to the ridiculous…….

Meeting at CK’s SCI Facility, the Reston Pizza Hut, where no one speaks English.

Attending with CK: Gordon Novel, Steve Greer, Paul Murad, Tom (sic) Peterson, pursuant of GN obtaining a 40K grant from SG’s Orion Project scheduled for 1800 hours, which GN mistakes for 8pm. SG left sitting in his Lamborghini for two hours. SG has never given any grants from his ample fund, much to the chagrin of HP and others. This meeting will prove no exception. Instead, then they pass the hat for the Pizza, CK, Paul and Tom each contribute $25 for an $8 pizza. GN is penniless. ‘Magnanimously’, SG offers to cover for GN, removing the $75 from the hat and replacing it with his credit card.

Upshot: the rich get richer. SG comes out $67 ahead.

And what other moral may we draw: follow the money! See RD’s http://topsecretwriter.blogspot.com/

But first, before we go green, and for maintaining a complete record, CK did not let this opportunity pass, without a humanitarian initiative.

TP is GN’s patent attorney whom I had met, many years ago. He is black, as was the contractor on CK’s roofing team from WV, also met. A black from WV? He had been adopted in DC and his parents retired to a small town in WV, which happens to be the last bastion of the Klan in the US. One of his (white)employees is arrested in connection with the murder of a local prostitute. Eventually he fingers his boss. They are now both lifers. TP agreed to take up the matter.

And now from the ridiculous to the truly ridiculous….

GN is homeless in Palm Springs. RS to the rescue. A friend of his from PS is vacationing in Europe, and he agrees to let GN be his house-sitter for a nominal $100 rent plus $100 down. GN is able to scrounge that much, but to cover the rest he invites a meth gang into the basement. But he still is short on cash. To raise his next $100, the gang requires that he box three rounds with their bitch, complete with professional coaching. The result is still disputed, by CK. I believe that 10% of this story is true.

After this meeting GN heads back to NO. An auto mechanic agrees to buy his RAM design for 5K. He then offers to spend more to do the fabrication, but only on the condition that he is not replicating this ‘replication’ machine. CK vouches that there is no RAM at S3. But what about the other places? None there, either. OK, green light for fabrication.

CK wonders what this auto mechanic will do when he gets to the propulsion system.

Where were we? This is definitely straining my memory. I was once scheduled to meet with RD, and CK advised me to excuse myself to take notes in the men’s room. I figured that CK might get suspicious, in this instance.

Who next? HP and the HFGW?

CK has learned this lesson the hard way: if you are going to stop craziness, you have to pile on, early and effectively. Yes, there was a Jason public rebuttal, and there was also a classified SAIC rebuttal. HP is now on a USG watch list for possible fraudulent schemes. Nonetheless, note bene, HP is still on CK’s payroll, as a trusted intellect. The two counter-studies cost 500K. This was after the USG had spent 3M on HFWG. Recall that the CIA/IG spent 100K to clear CK of malfeasance in the Hot Air/Gerbil case.

Oh, yes, CK had promised to discuss cosmology. But, as it turned out, NOT the BPWH cosmology. Only ‘conventional’ cosmology. He made it very clear that he would (continue to) refuse to discuss the BPWH, should I be foolish enough to attempt such. HFWG segued into the Inflationary cosmology. I told him that Kip Thorne (co-inventor of the Stargate wormhole) had been a fellow grad student at the PU/PD. He responded that KT had been a consultant to the Jason study.

There was a fair discussion of the relation between the String Theory and the Anthropic Principle. I did get a plug in for the SAP, but that was as far as it would go. I did explain the Multiverse theory, and that short-range gravitational anomalies might indicate a super-position of other ‘branes’.

Kit? He’s still in China, but is expected to be spending more time stateside.

He sent an email (IP Toronto) in perfect Chinese, impersonating China’s father of their H-bomb. The intent of the email was to lend support to HFGW, if I recall.

BTW, a big contribution to HFGW came when one of the marks confused gravity waves with gravitational waves, and showed that the Chicoms were extremely interested in gravitational waves. Thus was born the 3M$ HFGW gap.

Action items? I’m on-call for further (conventional!) cosmological discussion.

Oh, yes, Jake had asked what was CK’s new assignment. Unfortunately(?), we don’t have a need to know!

John Gannon? Contrary to ufo (GB) rumors, he is not high on the list for DDNI. CK is not happy with my possible continuing collaboration with GB. He counts GB to be 'untrustworthy'.

I’m wracking my brain for more info…..

OMG, I almost forgot Cpt. Ahab!

Listen very carefully, sports fans. This is not intended for virgin ears!

Yes, CK is not ignorant wrt SA (Source A). I knew that my phone call to the Navy public relations officer, what’s her name, was extremely redundant.

Here’s the scoop. The contact of SA with BM was very early in the process, long before the P&A show went public on OM. This was misrepresented(?) to us as being contemporaneous to last spring, but it was not. BM retired two years ago, and gave up ‘ALL’ of his clearances. BM had no clue as to what this would become.

CK suggests that the BM contact, two years ago, and our SA might be two different people.

I’ll have more to say about this later.

In the meantime, we need to go green……

HP drove GW Church (Scientologist) (Chicken, not to be confused with CL) into penury, obtaining all of his 75M$. And thus HP’s mansion at Bull Frog Mountain, TX. This is Big Bucks. Follow the K green.

They, HP, KG, JA et al, almost (tried to) drive Bob Bigelow into penury. See the NIDS/Skinwalker Ranch. We're talking 40M+.

Ok, my mind is coming back. Ron Hubbard died in 1986.

[I’ve just heard that my Middlesex schoolmate, Bill Richardson, Commerce Dept., has just withdrawn his nomination due to Grand Jury investigation!]

When RH died, all his creative talent, including HP & KG left, as the apparatchiks took over, that included the cousins of both CK & DTS.

That was when the Core Story was born, according to CK. HP has benefited financially more than any others. CK says that KG is very ambivalent about the Core Story.

Rick Doty was caught defrauding the USG relative to his East German contacts. He then followed his Uncle into ufology, and he forged various ufo reports that were presented to ufologists and to gullible USG folk.

RD was instrumental in the BPWH, when he told me about the ‘Disturbing Message' that motivated the Cover-up. CK implied that I was a Dupe.

That’s about all I can remember from last night. If I remember more, I’ll post it, unless CK invokes national security, which he has not yet done.

Are you sufficiently entertained??

I’ll proceed to an analysis, later.


There was a recent "Rumble at the Hut" similar to the sort of event described by Dan back then. This is a recurring theme... There are also one or two new characters involved.

Thanks for any info anyone out there can offer!

-Ryan
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Re: Rotten to the Core

Postby murnut » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:46 am

Thanks Ryan....this was one of my favorite Dan posts.

Dan is not a liar, but his memory is not perfect.

You should just call him. He always seems to be willing to talk
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