What are UFOs?

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What are UFOs?

Postby ryguy » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:57 pm

Here's more of a philosophical/theoretical question for everyone.

As you all know, there are accounts of alleged sightings of weird craft and humanoid creatures for a very, very long time. Many people sign off on most of those as sightings of as-yet unidentified military test craft.

Still other people consider the sightings to be physical craft, either from a human creation (not necessarily military), or extraterrestrial in nature. Usually people who make up this group (who believe the craft are non-military) disagree regarding whether the craft are terrestrial or extraterrestrial.

And still other people believe that the craft are not physical, but metaphysical in nature - hallucinated (for lack of a better word) effects created by a manipulation, somehow, of the witnesses mind and his/her senses.

I'd like to know what you think

I'd like to go under the following premise:

1. That the military knows of UFOs, but doesn't know what the heck they are.

2. Military and government entities, including astronomers, detect odd craft or objects inside and outside the earth's atmosphere often, with weird and wild characteristics (speed, changing trajectory, etc...), but all of those detections go unreported for fear of ridicule, and for lack of enough information about the sighting.

3. Most of the witnesses who submit reports are nutjobs, but a few legitimate witnesses are telling the truth about what they saw (a physical craft, and sometimes occupants).

Given all of the above assumptions (I know they are difficult assumptions to swallow), what hypothesis would you offer for the nature of these objects and where they come from?

-Ry
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby Zep Tepi » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:56 pm

I'd go for:

4) None of the above.

I'm surprised you haven't included that? Edit: Silly me, I misread the post!

As for the title of the thread, I'd say that UFOs are most definitely Unidentified Flying Objects :)

Cheers,
Steve

Edit to add:
I would say there a plethora of different explanations for the various types of UFO that are reported. The one thing I am sure of however, is that none of them involve aliens that have come here from elsewhere. How can I be so sure? Because I haven't seen, read or heard anything that would convince me otherwise.
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby GigaShadow » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:38 pm

Deleted by Author :cry:
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby ryguy » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:39 pm

Okaaaaaay....now that we've got answers from both ends of the spectrum - I'd like to hear from the rest of you. :)
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby GigaShadow » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:58 pm

Thats a very inquiring mind you have there ryguy. Of course I see that all the time. It's very difficult to let go of that which one believes, and your okaaaaayyyy tells me where you stand. Like in your avatar, with your back to the forum.
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby JayKew » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:30 pm

I would stop being a cynical skeptic if only someone could explain ....

Why, after travelling hundreds of light years, alien spacecraft have an alarming tendancy to crash into (usually) stationary objects.

And

Why if they dont succeed in crashing into (usually) stationary objects then they normally land ( after coming all that way ) on some deserted, lonely highway fifty miles further than the back of beyond. They then proceed to startle some innocent and more often than not nondescript fisherman/hunter guy and after implanting half a ton of scrap iron inside his body warns him against the people of the Earth self destructing.

And off they fly back home.

Unless they crash of course.

All seems sooooooooo pointless.

The last "figures" I saw showed that there were ( I think ) 6 million citizens of the USA who believed that they were currently being "visited" regulary.

Now that requires a hell of a lot of planning and logistics.

I think you know where I am coming from in this topic Ry :)


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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby Zep Tepi » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:34 pm

What he said :)
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby ryguy » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:40 pm

JayKew wrote:All seems sooooooooo pointless.

The last "figures" I saw showed that there were ( I think ) 6 million citizens of the USA who believed that they were currently being "visited" regulary.


Wow, are the figures really that high now? Imagine that...

Now that requires a hell of a lot of planning and logistics.


It sure does...

I think you know where I am coming from in this topic Ry :)


I sure do! Thanks - awesome comments. What I'm thinking here isn't so much whether they are what people think they are - or whether you believe they are alien craft. I mean, seriously, the concept of aliens traveling many light years to this planet is an outdated concept, isn't it? Not only outdated, but as you point out well, it's exceedingly foolish and unscientific to consider, as many of you have pointed out on this very forum, that aliens are smart enough to fly all of this way, only to crash land. Hello?

I think we all agree...so let's move past that theory of the objects as some sort of ET craft. As you point out - we've got 6 million citizens experiencing something odd.

Are many of them crazy - you bet they are. Are all of them crazy? That would be quite a pandemic of insanity...

Even if just 10,000 of them are verified perfectly sane - then we need to scientifically answer the question, what is making perfectly sane people see such objects, or entities? I ask the same question related to people who see ghosts (I bet those numbers are even higher).

So what is it people are seeing? I think it's about time we get out of the stone ages of the way ufologists have been looking at this field for the past half-a-century and consider it from a non-stereotypical, unbiased, and scientifically honest angle.

The only problem is...I don't consider myself smart enough to list potential hypothesis. I do consider most of you smart enough - so I'm putting feelers out for folks who can think outside the box and take this whole discussion in a brand new direction, while still adhering to scientific principles.

-Ry
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby simonespeaks » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:16 pm

nnnn
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby ScaRZ » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:39 pm

I've never to this day observed any UFO's. But just because I haven't seen one doesn't mean others haven't.
I don't believe [all] these people are making it up. Most certainly there will always be some that will go down that road. I still believe most UFO encounters can be explained as our on human craft or nature in it's many forms. There are others that I believe don't fit in either category.

What I find strange in some encounters is that one person might see the object while a person standing close to them will see nothing at all. UFO's have been seen and reported in just about any shape,size or form you can think of. Until we truly get up close and personal with UFO's how would we ever know? Even then we may see it as we want to see it. The scientific community may have the biggest blinders on in the long haul.
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby simonespeaks » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:56 pm

nnnn
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby ryguy » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:19 pm

simonespeaks wrote:I TAKE EXCEPTIONAL OFFENSE to the long-used 'old saying' re., witnesses to the anomalous, as being "nut jobs". SHAME on you Ry, I have heard Bill Birnes carelessly and mindlessly (i.e. ignorantly) shoot that rhetorical question from his hip once, on his TV show. ( I wonder if twisted cripples in wheelchairs and reetards see ufos as well). (I am being sarcastic, to make a point).


lol...I got your point - I hope you understand that I was making a point in response to the extreme case of the ultimate skeptic that so many of the 6 million are crazy. I was even being generous...let's say MOST of them are crazy (if we have to assume that to make ultimate skeptics happy). But still...we'll be left with plenty of sane UFO witnesses. Essentially - I'm in agreement with you!

The only point I disagree on, and I think it's a minor point, is the level of insanity in the field. I realize I've not been in the field as long as you (not even close!) - but in just the time I HAVE been...I've encountered at least 5 severely mentally troubled folks. I'm talking about a person who will write 20 pages of garbled prose about the Valarian dictators from planet Valaria who are using holographic mind-control devices on us and controlling the minds of TV producers in order to program all of us using Seinfeld reruns.

Get my point? Then there are the rest...the folks who may have served in the military and saw something "odd," or the poor farmer out in the middle of nowhere who comes across a dead, mutilated cow and a departing saucer. Huh???

My question is that, if we assume at least some witnesses have seen what they claim they've seen - then what have they really seen? :)

Per the "Nut Job" theorum, JET PILOTS CHASING UFOS ARE CHASING THEIR LONG-WEENED MOMMY'S TEETS.


omg you crack me up...LOL

-Ry
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby lost_shaman » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:26 pm

Hey Ryan,

I think you're confusing two different things here. People who think they are being "visited" are a completely different group from those who have simply observed something strange in the atmosphere. The two groups simply can not be thought of as one group of people. For example, in general most people who believe "Aliens" abducted them believe that it happened in their bedroom while either asleep or lying in bed but somewhat awake and recall events that do not include seeing anything in the atmosphere but rather strange indoor settings, and in general the latter group may or may not believe anything about "Aliens" but simply observed something strange in the sky predominately at night while fully awake and outside in a rural setting. Of this latter group (observing something in the atmosphere mainly at night) only about one in ten actually report seeing something they consider strange that could not be explained as reported by conventional prosaic explanations.

It's only the 10% of reports from the latter group of atmospheric observers that are responsible for the "UFO Phenomenon" as the former group of "Alien Abductees" didn't even exist until after the Betty and Barney Hill "Alien Abduction" that was widely and heavily reported. The Hill's became celebrities via their story that was certainly the first of it's kind that appeared to independently confirm the ETH for all the ETH'ers at the time because the Hill's said they had seen something in the sky at night like most typical unexplained reports that then turned out be an "Alien Craft" with Human "Abducting" "Aliens" who preformed crude and almost "Veterinary" medical procedures on unexpecting inter-racial motorists.

Then there is also another group of People who simply believe without having observed or experienced anything relevent that the Earth is/has been "visited" by "Aliens". This is definately the largest of these three groups of People and consequently the most influential of the three. It's this group that is largely responsible for mythology and popularity surrounding the subject. For example, People who believe "Aliens" "Abducted" them and did things to them might feel traumatized and People who have seen something strange in the sky might simply what an explaination for an observation, but People who think "Alien Visitation" is "Cool" don't care if other People are being "Abducted" and don't care for any explaination that doesn't involve "Aliens" "Abducting" other People!

In Modern Mythology and Misconception all three of these groups of People are mixed in together as one group who are in seemingly constant conflict with ardent "skeptics". The reality is that these are all three seperate groups of People that simply can not just be lumped together under a label of the "Pro UFO/Alien Visitation" camp. Obviously things are not quite so simple as that.

As I stated above, it's the roughly 10% of strange sightings and observations in the atmosphere by People who are awake and in rural areas that are the "Meat", if you will, of the UFO Phenomena. Without that one group of People there NEVER would have been a UFO Phenomena to even discuss.

What is interesting is that SO much Mythology and Misconception has been allowed to foster and ferment for so long while almost no science has been applied to this subject and what little science that has been applied to this subject is almost always completely ignored.
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby longhaircowboy » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:58 pm

I agree with most of what l_s said. I myself have had 3 unexplained sighting and I've conducted many field investigations of sighting reports(could be hundreds but whos counting). The one thing that I have found to be true is that the people who make the reports are honest no nonsense folks who really don't no what they saw. When I try and give them some help with likely everyday type objects or explainations it usually isn't even close to what they saw. And I can say with conviction that the truely unexplained sightings I've investigated outnumber the mundane real world explainations. I have been able to explain some but they are not the majority and I am very thorough.
There is something out there but I have no idea if we'll ever know just what it is.
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Re: What are UFOs?

Postby lost_shaman » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:54 am

Hey LHC,

You're certainly correct in that an independent 'investigator' can discriminate between apparently mundane sighting reports and those that apparently fit the profile of other sighting reports of interest.

A good independent researcher/investigator could easily choose to only focus on sighting reports of interest and therefore weed out 9 of 10 reports if that person/entity is willing and experienced enough to do so.

The 10% number is just a simple way to convey a generic average percentile amoung different populations in different geographical areas when talking about ALL sighting reports any given population is willing or able to report. That number could easily go up or down depending on the specific population and geographical area and also the populations willingness and ability to report sightings.
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