The Invasion from Outer Space

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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby ryguy » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:05 pm

Access Denied wrote:Well, I’m not sure what you mean by that but all evidence to date suggests the net (total) energy of the Universe is zero… as crazy as that may sound this is compatible with the theory that the Universe was “created” from nothing.


That's absolutely right. Newton's first law of motion is a testament to that.

An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

In other words, the natural order of things is equilibrium (net zero) unless an additional outside force influences the system.

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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby mavn » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:54 am

Well then thank God for the outside source because without that I believe Earth would probably have flopped off it's axis a long time ago. Remember, our planet has and continues to be on a collision course with cosmic asteroids and probably other very energized dangers that we are not even aware of so any theory about 0 energy in space gets a big 0 from me - Newton or not. :roll:
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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby the|exx » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:01 am

Access Denied wrote: in the midst of our curiosity and terror, a certain calm, the calm of familiarity, we knew what was expected of us, at such a moment.
Or do we?


Nicely written AD!

I'm not sure we would know what was expected of us unless we're all pre-programmed by the 'visitors'. Some might simply bow down sighting revelation and pray thinking that was expected of them while hillbilly bill might go and grab his rifle and take up arms thinking that's what was expected of him.

Personally, I'd stock up on food and water, sit back and survey the situation on the news networks. It's not the aliens I'm scared of. It's humans!

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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:00 pm

Sorry to be off-topic and all that, but can I just say... NICE avatar - Wow!
Welcome to the site the|exx, nice to see you :)

Cheers,
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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby the|exx » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:30 pm

Zep Tepi wrote:Sorry to be off-topic and all that, but can I just say... NICE avatar - Wow!
Welcome to the site the|exx, nice to see you :)
Cheers,
Steve


Thanks ZT!

I am equally impressed by the integrity of this forum and the intelligence of it's members. A little bit of branding never hurt anyone hey!

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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby ryguy » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:59 pm

Yeah...gotta say that Avatar is, by far, the best one I've seen yet. :)

I am equally impressed by the integrity of this forum...


I can't tell you how much that statement means to us after the trashtalk we've had to deal with through the years... When you bust up hoaxes, you tend to make enemies... lol.

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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby ryguy » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:23 pm

mavn wrote:Well then thank God for the outside source because without that I believe Earth would probably have flopped off it's axis a long time ago.


It's the outside force that would flop the Earth off it's axis... It's equilibrium that keeps the natural order of things flowing smoothly. Know what I mean? We're talking about zero "net energy" not zero energy. Remember the old sayings from Physics 101...matter can't be created or destroyed, objects in motion stay in motion, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Those are the fundamentals and they all attest to the reality that nature is built upon equilibrium and no left over energy, net zero....

Remember, our planet has and continues to be on a collision course with cosmic asteroids and probably other very energized dangers that we are not even aware of so any theory about 0 energy in space gets a big 0 from me - Newton or not.


Probably so - but no energy is going to materialize out of nothing. Zero point energy, for example, is a sham that numerous other scams use to try to explain how their perpetual motion machine works (even though it doesn't).

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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby mavn » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:26 pm

Ry - I understand the concept of reaching an equilibrium however if no energy is produced at all then what perpetuates positive life forms? Seems to me it would have to be an ongoing process (visible or not) in order to maintain and sustain life on any level. And perhaps it is a similar type of unknown and unrecognizeable energy that fuels unknown and unrecognizeable space travelers.
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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby longhaircowboy » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:51 pm

If you want to understand the concept of zero energy and the loss of information(matter) I recommend a book by Leonard Susskind called The Black Hole War. He's a physicist but the book is written so that anyone can read it.
It might answer any questions about energy and matter.
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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby mavn » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:17 am

okay - that's fine, however I was referring to positive space not negative space.
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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby the|exx » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:22 am

I doubt it matters whether energy exists in some currently unknown form (like the ether etc). You still have to rob from Peter to give to Paul. No matter how many buzz words you spice it up with or twist it around in your brain, there's no such thing as over unity. As many have already stated. It's snake-oil! :^o

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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby longhaircowboy » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:25 pm

Susskinds book is about positive space. It only deals with negative space a little and only as a result of the theory that there is loss of information in a black hole. He doesn't spend much time on whats beyond the event horizon. But there is a good discussion of the conservation of energy and zero-point motion. He also makes a good case for no zero energy by using Planck units.
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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby mavn » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:12 pm

I truly appreciate the good information however I prefer to keep an open-mind about this too.
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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby mavn » Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:05 pm

Also, on the History Channel yesterday scientists explained that the universe originated in it's most primitive form from a single cosmic cell that virtually exploded sending out particles of mass that ultimately would become our universe. So my question again is where did the energy come from then that initiated the "big bang" if there was not and is not a constant source of energy in space? Could it be a part of a larger magnetic system of interactions over the distance of many universes that influences our universe? And keeping in line with the topic of this discussion thread why then couldn't space travel be possible using the charged energy from those magnetic systems in conjunction with the energy produced by the magnetic systems here on Earth?
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Re: The Invasion from Outer Space

Postby longhaircowboy » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:17 pm

There is a constant energy. Each particle from a string to a quark to a gluon to an atom has energy. There are different types of energy. Potential, kinetic, thermal, etc. It's a matter of where you find it. For example, potential energy is the energy of a body at rest like say a rock. Once it rolls thats kinetic. As for the Big Bang that was what Einstein was getting at with E=MC2. I just finished Susskinds book so I'll see if I can piece together what he says about the bang and get you a better answer.
As for stellar travel it's my guess that what people see flitting about our skies are not interstellar vehicles. The price in energy to go the vast distances required(light years) would mean ships able to carry huge amounts of whatever propellant is needed. Unless of course those folks have mastered some esoteric form of propulsion that is beyond our understanding of physics. Yes this is possible but first know that most of the laws of physics so far seem pretty safe. Interstellar travel remains a Sisyphean task without the use of some form of sci-fi type travel.
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