UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

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UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby mavn » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:29 am

Just wondering how popular of an event this might be - Evidently one of the earliest UFO sightings (caught on film) ocurred here in 1950. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMinnvill ... hotographs) And now I live here - who would have known? =D>
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby Access Denied » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:07 am

Looks pretty whacky…

http://www.mcmenamins.com/galleryb.php?loc=3&id=5059

Any chance you’re related to the original hoaxers? :)
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby mavn » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:23 pm

AD - I think it is suppose to be wacky and fun. And that is the reason why a restaurant and pub are hosting the event. If you read through the material you would know that this is the second largest UFO festival in the United States. No I am not related to the Trents (or anyone else here) who said they sighted the flying saucer but you have to admit that could be wacky and fun too! Sometimes, I believe it is good not to take life so seriously - cheers!
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby ryguy » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:21 pm

You think that's wacky? Up where I grew up in the Northern Maine woods of Aroostook County, the black flies were so big that our town had a "Black Fly Festival" every summer. I kid you not. Beauty pageant, street races, parade and all.

Come to think of it, the black flies up there were big enough to be mistaken for UFOs. ;)

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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby mavn » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:40 pm

How Funny! Okay Ryguy you win the prize!
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby longhaircowboy » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:49 pm

The Trents hoaxers? I thought most folks had those photos as real. Heck if memory serves Macabee even gave em the thumbs up.
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby mavn » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:41 pm

Perhaps that is true. Evidently the original photos appeared in Life Magazine so someone must have thought they looked genuine. You have to remember though that McMinnville is also home to the "Spruce Goose" and it is the "Napa Valley" of Oregon so I guess anything is possible. :)
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby ryguy » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:46 pm

longhaircowboy wrote: Heck if memory serves Macabee even gave em the thumbs up.


Maccabee giving it the thumbs up doesn't say a lot...lol. If you read the link AD posted, he was countering the argument of two famous debunker/skeptics - but I've not found any case where Maccabee ever admitted something was a hoax even when he knew it was. In fact, we have an upcoming story on just such a case - Maccabee, while he's a very analytical guy with a scientific leaning is unfortunately so biased toward the believer side of things that he's willing to sweep known problems with a story under the rug. Why? Who knows... I'm considering copyrighting the term "believer-itis" and calling it that.

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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby longhaircowboy » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:26 pm

If you mean the link above it goes to a site for the fest. I assume your refering to Klass' silly shadow argument. He was never able to prove that the shadows on the garage were faked.
As far as I know noone to this day has been able to prove the Trents photos were fake and they died insisting there was nothing phony going on.
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby mavn » Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:16 am

Although I have only lived in this area for a few months I have witnessed that most people here seem to be very sincere hard working people and a few perhaps the descendants of original pioneers to Yamhill County. So I just have to wonder why (especially in the early 1950's) one would intentionally put their entire reputation on the line and allow photos to be published of an event that obviously was not too common. Also, it might be interesting to know if Native American legends for this area indicate the possibility of an extra-terrestrial presence at one time. So, to make a long story short - I for one will try to keep an open mind.
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby Access Denied » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:15 am

ryguy wrote:If you read the link AD posted…

Actually mavn posted the link (kudos to her for posting a link to both sides of the argument) but I agree… one must not forget Maccabee also gave the “thumbs up” to the Gulf Breeze photos.

Just looking at the shadows (never mind the bright highlights) it shouldn’t take a PhD to realize the photos couldn’t possibly be taken after sunset as claimed…

http://debunker.com/images2/Shadows1_200dpi.jpg
http://debunker.com/images2/Shadows2_200dpi.jpg

Not only that, along with other inconsistencies in their testimony, the witnesses claim it was overcast but the weather records show it was clear at the time with only a few clouds throughout the day.

Maccabee’s “analysis” suggesting it could be sunlight reflected from a cloud is well… just plain ridiculous.

An Investigation of the McMinnville UFO Photographs by Robert Sheaffer
http://debunker.com/texts/trent1969.html

To attribute the illumination in the photos to a bright cloud, or to a bright hole in the cloud cover, especially after sunset, would require a surface brightness of these remarkable clouds on the order of magnitude of thousands of times that of the surrounding sky, which is inconceivable. It is particularly implausible that such illumination could exist around the time of sunset.

Also, it should be noted this wasn’t Paul Trent’s first “encounter” with a UFO which always tends to raise my suspicions about possible motive.

[ref. Ryan’s “believeritis”]

Finally, as I’ve said before, any photo or sighting of a “flying saucer” should immediately be suspect considering the phrase (and hence the idea) was coined in 1947 by a newspaper reporter who misinterpreted Kenneth Arnold’s description of what he saw. This is him pointing to an artist’s representation of what he saw…

Image

Funny how everybody started seeing “flying saucers” (or “discs”) after that… never underestimate the power of suggestion.

[and never mind a “saucer “ design is impractical for atmospheric flight as discussed previously here]

Transcript of Ed Murrow-Kenneth Arnold Telephone Conversation
http://www.project1947.com/fig/kamurrow.htm

[emphasis mine]

MURROW: On three different occasions, Mr. Arnold was questioned by military intelligence. They expressed doubt as to the accuracy of some of his reported observations.

ARNOLD: That's right. Now of course some of the reports they did take from newspapers which did not quote me properly. Now, when I told the press, they misquoted me, and in the excitement of it all, one newspaper and another on got it as ensnarled up that nobody knew just exactly what they were talking about, I guess.

MURROW: Here's how the name "flying saucer" was born.

ARNOLD: These objects more or less fluttered like they were, oh, I'd say, boats on very rough water or very rough air of some type, and when I described how they flew, I said that they flew like they take a saucer and throw it across the water. Most of the newspapers misunderstood and misquoted that too. They said that I said that they were saucer-like; I said that they flew in a saucer-like fashion.

MURROW: That was an historic misquote. While Mr. Arnold's original explanation has been forgotten, the term "flying saucer" has become a household word. Few people realize that Mr. Arnold has reported seeing these same strange objects in the sky on three other occasions. He says that some pilots in the northwest have reported seeing them on 8 separate occasions. We asked for his own personal opinion on the nature of what he and the others had seen.

ARNOLD: I don't know how best to explain that. I more or less have reserved an opinion as to what I think. Naturally, being a natural-born American, if it's not made by our science or our Army Air Forces, I am inclined to believe it's of an extra-terrestrial origin.

MURROW: Extra-terrestrial origin? You mean you think there's a possibility they may be coming out of space from other planet (sic)? I suppose that's pretty hard for people to take seriously.

ARNOLD: Well, I'll tell you this much -- all the airline pilots, none of us have appreciated being laughed at. We made our reports essentially to begin with, because we thought that if our government didn't know what it was, it was only our duty to report it to our nation, and to our Air Force out of it (sic). I think it's something that is of concern to every person in the country, and I don't think it's anything for people to get hysterical about. That's just my frank opinion of it.

MURROW: So that's how it all began; that was the trigger action. Kenneth Arnold's story went scudding over the news wires. Radio and newspapers picked it up, and then within days the country broke out into a flood of flying saucer observations.

Anyway, nothing wrong with the UFO Festival mavn… that is unless perhaps you happen to be one of the few researchers who wish UFOs were taken more seriously.

I see Friedman and Howe will be there and getting paid to rehash their bunk…

http://www.ufofest.com/ufofest07/speakers.html


P.S. I admire your tenacity mavn... thank you for putting up with my skepticism and gving us all something to talk about. You've been really cool about it. :D
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby mavn » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:03 am

Thanks AD, I try to be nice whenever possible. :)
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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby lost_shaman » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:34 am

Access Denied wrote:Finally, as I’ve said before, any photo or sighting of a “flying saucer” should immediately be suspect considering the phrase (and hence the idea) was coined in 1947 by a newspaper reporter who misinterpreted Kenneth Arnold’s description of what he saw. This is him pointing to an artist’s representation of what he saw…

Funny how everybody started seeing “flying saucers” (or “discs”) after that… never underestimate the power of suggestion.


(Bold emphasis mine.)

You're operating from a false premise AD. For one thing people all over the place had been seeing strange aerial phenomena for years. For instance just the year prior, 1946, in Europe (and in 1943-44 before that). A lot of the reports from '46 describe objects that share some characteristics to what Arnold described (high-speed low flying mystery objects); others describe cigar and globe shapes or even use the word elliptical to describe shape and some are simply described as "lights" or "objects" or "Flying objects".

I took a cursory glance through a handful of articles from '46 posted on the Project 1947 website and made a list of some of the phrases used, certainly not all. Everything in parentheses occurred in the same article. These descriptions/phrases get interesting.

flying projectile - July 21, 1946
flying bombs - July 25, 1946
radio-controlled projectiles - July 25, 1946
Mysterious flying objects - July 30, 1946
Ghost bombs - August 3, 1946
strange projectiles (cigar shaped) - August 3, 1946
ghost rocket (glowing cigar) - August 17, 1946
"ghost rocket" (elliptical - "space ship") - August 24, 1946

Here in Europe one year before Kenneth Arnold, you have all the trappings of the '47 flap in the U.S. except you don't have a European Ken Arnold or the catchy American phrase to go with it. Although, I have to admit that "MFO" is close it just doesn't have that zing and mystery you get with "UFO" that becomes popular 6 years later.

Note that the "idea" that these low altitude aerial phenomena, being reported in '46, are suggested to possibly be "space ships" was reported in the press, albeit not in the U.S..

Also note that "cigar" shaped objects are basically slang for elliptical shaped objects just as "Disk", "Disc", and "Saucer" are basically slang for elliptical shaped objects.

In '47 "Discs", "Disk", and "Flying Disk" all occurred in the Press independent and contemporary to one another on June 26th (Did "Flying Saucer" appear on the 26th?).

It's true that Arnold's sighting was the first to hit the AP wire in the U.S., BUT it only went National because Reporters at that time were aware of the reports in Europe the year before and that some of them were likely receiving local reports that were similar but they didn't dare publish until someone else went first (that's my opinion). Ironically as it seems to us now, people in the U.S. following the story of the "Flying objects" in Europe the year before believed in large part that this was a phenomena that only affected Europe and Asia not the Americas!

Oh well, that's my $0.02 for now if it wasn't a weekday I might elaborate...

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Re: UFO Fest 2009 McMinnville, Oregon

Postby longhaircowboy » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:32 pm

The ghost rockets were another iteration of the foo fighters seen by pilots in the European theater during WWII.
They were said to be ghostly apparitions with amazing abilities and speed.
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