SUNlite

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Re: SUNlite

Postby suspicioso » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:16 pm

(I guess we should move this to OM flames section but...)

I recently saw on the Pickerings thread a post from someone pretending to be a dolphin get taken seriously.

It really has become the land of WTF?

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Re: SUNlite

Postby astrophotographer » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:03 pm

Access Denied wrote:One minor quibble… I think James Carrion deserves at least some credit for his recent efforts to openly challenge the “powers that be” at the Open Minds Forum over their promotion of the “California Drones” hoax and more recently the “Source A/UN Meeting” hoax… that’s something I would not expect from MUFON leadership in the past. That said, I don’t think MUFON is much of an “organization” these days…



Actually, I have a great deal of respect for Carrion at this point. I saw him on the program about UFOs over the earth (or something like that) where they showed some MUFON investigations. At least he seemed a lot more thorough and the program was definitely far better than UFO hunters. They actually demonstrated skepticism in several cases and an ability to not push the "I believe" button too quickly. My favorite was the show where they exposed some Mexico city UFO photographs as fakes and the UFO the whole town in Mexico saw turned out to be a blown up transformer.
My beef has to do with MUFON as a whole. They seemed to busy posting raw UFO reports and very little real investigations seem to be done. This latest Romanek saga seems to have been going on for some time but none of the "big guns" in UFOlogy want to brand this for what it is. Where are Jerome Clark, Bruce Maccabee, Kevin Randle, Stan Friedman, etc., etc.? UFOlogy wants respect but it allows this kind of thing to fester. It just makes them look ridiculous. Nothing like a carnival side show to make your "science" look like a joke.
As many know, I don't think there is anything to UFOs because I have never seen one in all my years of astronomical experience and there has never been a UFO event that was monitored by scientific instruments that could not be explained as something else. That being said, I am open to the possibility that I might need to change my position if GOOD SOLID VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE can be produced. So far, nothing of the sort has been done to my satisfaction. Lots of mysteries (that could have more mundane solutions than ET) but nothing conclusive.
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Re: SUNlite

Postby murnut » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:36 pm

If you want a good laugh, or a good cry, check out the Manta Ray ufo thread at OMF

There are video's that are obvious jets...but yet the OP maintains they are Orion Starships.

42 pages...lol

I would post a link but can't because i can only view from behind a proxy. It's in the John Lear board though.
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Re: SUNlite

Postby murnut » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:38 pm

suspicioso wrote:(I guess we should move this to OM flames section but...)

I recently saw on the Pickerings thread a post from someone pretending to be a dolphin get taken seriously.

It really has become the land of WTF?

Sus


Dude..I miss you.

You have been asking some great questions of the Pickle heads

I especially liked the one where you said something to the effect "Are the Reppies a side dish, or the main course?"
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Re: SUNlite

Postby murnut » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:45 pm

astrophotographer wrote:My beef has to do with MUFON as a whole. They seemed to busy posting raw UFO reports and very little real investigations seem to be done. This latest Romanek saga seems to have been going on for some time but none of the "big guns" in UFOlogy want to brand this for what it is. Where are Jerome Clark, Bruce Maccabee, Kevin Randle, Stan Friedman, etc., etc.? UFOlogy wants respect but it allows this kind of thing to fester. It just makes them look ridiculous. Nothing like a carnival side show to make your "science" look like a joke.
As many know, I don't think there is anything to UFOs because I have never seen one in all my years of astronomical experience and there has never been a UFO event that was monitored by scientific instruments that could not be explained as something else. That being said, I am open to the possibility that I might need to change my position if GOOD SOLID VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE can be produced. So far, nothing of the sort has been done to my satisfaction. Lots of mysteries (that could have more mundane solutions than ET) but nothing conclusive.


This is a big problem in ufology. The big guns don't want to challenge the "sacred cows" for whatever reason.

At least Carrion has the guts, and the will to do it publicly.

I saw something I can't explain fairly close and low to the ground...when I was 10 years old.

It was a craft like I have never seen before. Was it real? I'm starting to doubt it was reality like I thought I understood.

To borrow a phrase from Dan Smith...."ufo's come with a built in smokescreen"


[Mod Edit: trimmed quote]
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Re: SUNlite

Postby suspicioso » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:15 pm

murnut wrote:Dude..I miss you.

You have been asking some great questions of the Pickle heads

I especially liked the one where you said something to the effect "Are the Reppies a side dish, or the main course?"


Hey dude :)

Still no answers to that one...


[Mod Edit: fixed quote]
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Re: SUNlite

Postby suspicioso » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:32 pm

murnut wrote:This is a big problem in ufology. The big guns don't want to challenge the "sacred cows" for whatever reason.

At least Carrion has the guts, and the will to do it publicly.

I saw something I can't explain fairly close and low to the ground...when I was 10 years old.

It was a craft like I have never seen before. Was it real? I'm starting to doubt it was reality like I thought I understood.

To borrow a phrase from Dan Smith...."ufo's come with a built in smokescreen"


I think it may be a truism that the most knowledgable people in any field are those who claim to know very little, and only have more questions.

There is a 'real' phenomena in the sense that there are fora such as these and many people asking questions about experiences they are unable to understand. The problem - as with any area at the frontiers of understanding - comes those claiming to have answers, or who are simply intent on exploiting people's confusion.

While I may come across as a skeptic I'm actually very keen to find anomalies that don't fit our current models, and I think the Core Story and the UFO mythos makes this job a whole lot harder with its banal "explanations".

I actually liked the case (originally from MUFON I think?) where the lady reported seeing an airliner frozen unmoving in mid-air - what was she really experiencing? But even then the pat answers of UFOlogy kept intruding...
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Re: SUNlite

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:55 pm

I haven't been keeping up much with the Source A or the Drone stuff, but I am amazed that they are still allowed a place to peddle such blatant nonsense. It has always been clear to me that the leadership at OM have no interest whatsoever in finding the truth of a particular scenario. Their sole interest was/is in generating intrigue and mystery in order to keep the current membership hooked and to snare more members in the noose. Make no mistake, it is a noose. Once you're in it, it is very difficult to get back out with barely a whisper of common sense coming out of all the crazy noise. I know you two guys have tried to shine a light of common sense over there, but look where that got you. The "powers" that be over don't need people like you, all they need is unwavering followers and they'll be happy to the end of time. What is scary is some of those "powers" actually believe a lot of the tripe could be true!

Not for me, I'm afraid.

Btw, has any of the current war-mongering between Jack Sarfatti and Gordon Novel been given airtime there?
THAT deserves a thread of its own...
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Re: SUNlite

Postby murnut » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:47 am

Dan posted about the email wars..in his usual cryptic fashion.

Dan is a bit of a enigma.....sometimes bizarre, and yet sometimes exhibits remarkable clarity.

Gorden is a fraud and has been a fraud for a long time imo.

He is also a known hothead.

What's the mystery?
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Re: SUNlite

Postby Krishna » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:59 am

I've been following what I can via Colins sometimes awesome (and equally unnavigable) Combat Diaries, up to JS's advice to GN on the 2nd of Jan to consider joining Sur in Thailand, and to stop with the hyperbolic threats. (How often does GN do this? - His blood pressure must defy usual Homo Sapien limits hehe :P) - Have things gone further than this (yet? :P).

Unfortunately I unsubbed from Jacks list a while ago as the Signal/Noise ratio had become intolerably low, now theres fun'n'games again I wish I hadn't.

I find JS quite the mystery at times, although I have my own opinions on JS and his role in this whole game'o'fun, If I ever need to find the worst possible diplomat, with the greatest ability to provoke and infuriate, I'd try to hire JS. (And even enjoy the holier-than-thou rejction from him as it would undoubtably entertain.).

JS is the inspiration behind a term I have coined, but rarely needed to use, but hope one day I'll find a sentence/post/blog that'll require it's use sometime, that word being "MindSalad' - a form of Word Salad designed to create a debilitating mental feedback loop, JS is a non-lethal weapon, and MindSalad is his ammunition. :lol:
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Re: SUNlite

Postby Access Denied » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:50 am

astrophotographer wrote:Actually, I have a great deal of respect for Carrion at this point. I saw him on the program about UFOs over the earth (or something like that) where they showed some MUFON investigations.

Cool, haven’t seen that one… in our house anything to do with aliens is strictly off limits by order of “She Who Rules The Remote”. Hardly seems fair as she gets to watch all the paranormal stuff she wants with my mouth kept politely shut… for the most part.

astrophotographer wrote:My beef has to do with MUFON as a whole. They seemed to busy posting raw UFO reports and very little real investigations seem to be done.

Agreed, plenty of unfiltered noise… little to no signal. But then that’s been the result of every organized effort to date, official or not... go figure.

astrophotographer wrote:Where are Jerome Clark, Bruce Maccabee, Kevin Randle, Stan Friedman, etc., etc.?

Good question… tending to their respective babies in the bathwater? Though I will say it seems Kevin Randle for one has been changing his tune for the better somewhat of late… at least as long as it’s not related to Roswell. Here’s one example I’ve been meaning to highlight since I read it but forgot about until now…

A Different Perspective: Walesville UFO Jet Chase
http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2009/03 ... chase.html

On the other hand, can’t say the same for Maccabee… he endorsed Salla and the “Source A” UN meeting hoax.

astrophotographer wrote:Lots of mysteries (that could have more mundane solutions than ET) but nothing conclusive.

Well, as I’ve said before, I have seen something I couldn’t explain but I still feel the same as you… nothing that can’t be explained by perceptual errors or, at best, some rare, as yet undiscovered, atmospheric phenomena. But even that seems less likely to me for any case I've looked at as time goes on…

murnut wrote: To borrow a phrase from Dan Smith...."ufo's come with a built in smokescreen"

In Dan’s case I'm afraid that would be the cheap vino

suspicioso wrote:I actually liked the case (originally from MUFON I think?) where the lady reported seeing an airliner frozen unmoving in mid-air - what was she really experiencing?

Brain fart?

Krishna wrote:JS is the inspiration behind a term I have coined, but rarely needed to use, but hope one day I'll find a sentence/post/blog that'll require it's use sometime, that word being "MindSalad' - a form of Word Salad designed to create a debilitating mental feedback loop, JS is a non-lethal weapon, and MindSalad is his ammunition. :lol:

MindSalad™ © 2010 Krishna

There, now it’s official…
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Re: SUNlite

Postby ryguy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:08 pm

Access Denied wrote:Cool, haven’t seen that one… in our house anything to do with aliens is strictly off limits by order of “She Who Rules The Remote”. Hardly seems fair as she gets to watch all the paranormal stuff she wants with my mouth kept politely shut… for the most part.


Speaking of which, and not to take the thread too far off topic, but I was watching Ghost Hunters last night, Jan 6th, and one of the new investigators, a girl who had some technical training/background, was investigating with them using a temperature meter.

I watched as she measured the temperature over a bed drop from 56 deg F in a room down to something like 18 degrees. Now...I expected her to do what a majority of investigators do and conclude that a ghostly entity was sucking the energy out of the air in order to prepare for "apparating" into our dimension.

Instead - this girl, who is now my hero paranormal researcher on the show, blinked a couple times and said, "Well now, that can't be right, my fingers would be freezing. There must be some electrical interference of some sort." So, she starts going around the room and looking at all of the electrical appliances and finally in a brilliant moment of the show - proves to the homeowner that the nearly zero reading was due to the nearby halogen lamp...in fact she could repeat the phenomenon and make the meter go down to -9.

I stood up and gave the television set a standing ovation, my wife thought I was insane. LOL

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Re: SUNlite

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:17 pm

ryguy wrote:Instead - this girl, who is now my hero paranormal researcher on the show, blinked a couple times and said, "Well now, that can't be right, my fingers would be freezing. There must be some electrical interference of some sort." So, she starts going around the room and looking at all of the electrical appliances and finally in a brilliant moment of the show - proves to the homeowner that the nearly zero reading was due to the nearby halogen lamp...in fact she could repeat the phenomenon and make the meter go down to -9.


Quick, get her a job at the Penn State Meteorology Department and climate research unit! They desperately need her to clean-up a load of dog doo-doo, and when she completes that job she needs a work visa for the UK MET and East Anglia University!

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Re: SUNlite

Postby ryguy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:01 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Quick, get her a job at the Penn State Meteorology Department and climate research unit! They desperately need her to clean-up a load of dog doo-doo, and when she completes that job she needs a work visa for the UK MET and East Anglia University!

Ray


LOL...I know right? I'm afraid there aren't enough of her to go around and fill all of the positions where her level of open-minded critical thinking is necessary. I was just so reassured to finally see someone like her show up on one of these paranormal shows. Let's just hope it's the start of a new trend.

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Re: SUNlite

Postby Access Denied » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:02 pm

ryguy wrote:I stood up and gave the television set a standing ovation, my wife thought I was insane. LOL

Ha ha... I love it. They know us all too well don't they? I’ll never forget these words of wisdom a friend of mine came up with during one particular late night of partying in college… “Don’t laugh at the TV, it can’t hear you!” That’s haunted to me this day and as my wife frequently points out, also applies to yelling at it.

Anyway, I predict a thread spilt soon... :)
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