Possible UAP

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Possible UAP

Postby longhaircowboy » Sat May 30, 2009 9:22 pm

Last night I was sitting in a local park watching a Little League game. The parks name is Fossil Park and its located at 70 Av. and 9 St. N. in St. pete FL. The time was 9PM and I heard a plane coming from the north out of St. Pete/Clearwater airport. It was headed almost directly overhead in a southerly direction. I glanced up to see it and was about to turn my attention back to the game when I spotted a figure 8 shaped light just to the east of the plane. I watched it for about a minute and it didn't appear to be moving so I took my phone and snapped a pic of it. I was sitting in the outfield so there was no one else around me. After I took the pic I looked around to see if anyone else was possibly looking in the direction of the object. Their attention was on the game. When I turned back to look at it it was gone. I have the pic saved to a flash drive. I looked at it on my laptop but I don't have very sophisticated image ware so I can't really tell how it came out. It is barely discerable. If anyone has better software and would like to check it or evaluate it I'd be happy to email it. I'd put it in this post but I forgot how to upload it here and it might not show much. My investigation is just getting started(I've already requested last nights flight logs for both local airports). Today I'll be canvassing the neighborhood looking for potential witnesses.
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby Access Denied » Sun May 31, 2009 9:25 pm

longhaircowboy wrote:I glanced up to see it and was about to turn my attention back to the game when I spotted a figure 8 shaped light just to the east of the plane.

By “figure 8 shaped” do you mean like two lights close together?

longhaircowboy wrote:I'd put it in this post but I forgot how to upload it here and it might not show much.

When composing (or editing) a post you should be able to scroll down below the "Save", "Preview", and "Submit" buttons where it says "Options" and click on the "Upload Attachment" tab.

I don't have Photoshop (I use an old version of Micrografx Picture Publisher) but I don't think it would make much difference what you use…
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby longhaircowboy » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:26 pm

Thanks AD I hadn't used it in so long I fugot. Yes it could be 2 lights, to my eyes it appeared as 2 cojoined lights thus forming the figure 8. I haven't turned up any other witnesses and I'm still waiting on the flight logs. It was in an area of the sky that is not a normal flight path. I only have Microsoft Imaging and when I magnify it just turns into a blur. Here's the pic.
ufo.JPG
ufo.JPG (57.92 KiB) Viewed 2335 times

As I said I will also be glad to email it to someone if need be if they can do an enhancement on it. I called the local police and the local fish wrap and they hadn't recieved any calls nor had the airports. McDill AFB had no comment as usual(don't know why I even bother calling them). Guess those CENTCOM guys are too busy in other places. Something I didn't mention in my OP was that because of the jet I couldn't tell if the obect made any noise but from the apparent distance it's doubtful I would have heard it anyway. It seemed to be at roughly 10,000 ft. and maybe a mile or two away.
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby Access Denied » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:07 am

Well, I played around with it and I’m stumped… no idea what that could be unless it’s two (separate?) aircraft lights? The EXIF data indicates a shutter speed of 1/21 sec. which would rule out a single moving (or relatively stationary alternating) anti-collision strobe. (.6 – 1.5 Hz)

No east coast launches on the 29th I’m aware of…

I don’t know, looks like a UFO to me. 8)
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby longhaircowboy » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:34 pm

Thanks for taking a look at it AD. Wish I coulda got a second pic for comparison. It appeared stationary but it's possible it could have been moving away from me which would explain why it vanished so quickly. I finally reviewed the flight logs and didn't see anything helpful. Wouldn't you know the one time I happen to have a camera and I can't come up with a decent shot. My UFO sighting score is now at 4. Wonder how many other folks have had that many in their lives(abductions don't count).
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby ryguy » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:07 pm

Was the aircraft a plane or a jet? Could the object/lights be related to something the aircraft gave off - large plumes of smoke or anything else that may have reflected lights from the ground before it dissipated?
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby longhaircowboy » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:57 pm

The plane that flew overhead looked like a 747 but I'm not good at identifying jet planes in the dark. The object was to the east and there was a lot of sky in between the two so I don't think it was anything given off by the plane. And it was too high up to be some sort of ground based effect. The one thing I do know is it wasn't celestial. I've been over the star charts and maps(that was the first thing I checked).
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby Nemo » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:54 am

When I was a teenager I saw something like that. It kind of loitered around in the sky for probably over a half hour. When I looked at it through binoculars it looked exactly like an airplane in an extreme bank with the wingtip lights strobing. I think that the colors were even correct for that. But I always wondered, why would an airplane fly around so long in one area at night in a permanent bank? a 60 degree bank corresponds to a 2G maneuver, this was steeper, a lot like yours which would mean a high G turn. Airplanes tend to loose altitude in banks and don't tend to maintain them for long....usually just enough to turn...or I guess to see whatever they are looking at on the ground.......but how much would they have seen at night?
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby Access Denied » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:00 am

[bump]

Since we have a number of new members who enjoy analyzing photos I thought I’d ask, anybody have any idea what this might be?
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby Arbitrageur » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:57 am

longhaircowboy wrote:
The attachment ufo.JPG is no longer available

As I said I will also be glad to email it to someone if need be if they can do an enhancement on it.
Would the e-mailed version be any better/different than the posted version?

I took the image posted and enlarged it pixellated and enlarged it with a little processing, There's definitely some structure below and slightly to the left of the two bright lights, and maybe some structure to the right of the bottom light though that's more questionable.

There's not a whole lot of information in the image. Perhaps 20 good plus 15 marginal pixels for the top light, 30-40 for the bottom light and another 15-25 pixels of interest other than the lights. That's more than a lot of UFO pictures but still not much to go on. But there's more there than just the two bright lights.

I'll post the images here but I can't tell what it is. One question I would have is, how long were the lights observed and did they continue to appear stationary?

I will throw out one thought but I'm not saying this explains it. I've stood just outside an airport, at the location where the planes line up to land and see the planes descend on the landing glide path. They can and do appear completely motionless if observed for only a minute or so because they are coming straight toward you, and the lights can appear to be stacked on top of each other just like that. They might be 10 minutes out so you really have to watch them a long time to start to see any motion but if you watch long enough, eventually you'll see some motion and see them fly overhead and land. That's why I asked how long they were observed.

The extra pixels below the bottom light also draw that possibility into question, as it would be a better fit if we just had the two lights, or even a 3rd light.
Attachments
ClearwaterUFO-unprocessed (2).png
Unprocessed pixels
ClearwaterUFO-unprocessed (2).png (46.29 KiB) Viewed 2071 times
ClearwaterUFO-processed.JPG
Processed Image
ClearwaterUFO-processed.JPG (10.56 KiB) Viewed 2071 times
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby Access Denied » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:49 am

Arbitrageur wrote:Would the e-mailed version be any better/different than the posted version?

As far as I know, it's the original. Hopefully LHC will chime in but in the meantime, here's what I get from the EXIF data...

Code: Select all
ExifTool Version Number         : 7.76
File Name                       : ufo.JPG
Directory                       : C:/Documents and Settings/Tom/Desktop
File Size                       : 58 kB
File Modification Date/Time     : 2010:12:08 21:37:11-08:00
File Type                       : JPEG
MIME Type                       : image/jpeg
Exif Byte Order                 : Big-endian (Motorola, MM)
Make                            : MSM6500
Camera Model Name               : SPH-M620
Orientation                     : Horizontal (normal)
X Resolution                    : 72
Y Resolution                    : 72
Resolution Unit                 : inches
Software                        : ES.M620
Y Cb Cr Positioning             : Centered
Exposure Time                   : 1/21
Exif Version                    : 0220
Date/Time Original              : 2009:05:29 21:46:23
Create Date                     : 2009:05:29 21:46:23
Components Configuration        : Y, Cb, Cr, -
Flash                           : No Flash
Flashpix Version                : 0100
Color Space                     : sRGB
Exif Image Width                : 1280
Exif Image Height               : 960
Interoperability Index          : R98 - DCF basic file (sRGB)
Interoperability Version        : 0100
File Source                     : Digital Camera
Scene Type                      : Directly photographed
White Balance                   : Auto
Digital Zoom Ratio              : 1
Compression                     : JPEG (old-style)
Thumbnail Offset                : 548
Thumbnail Length                : 1977
Image Width                     : 1280
Image Height                    : 960
Encoding Process                : Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample                 : 8
Color Components                : 3
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling            : YCbCr4:2:0 (2 2)
Image Size                      : 1280x960
Shutter Speed                   : 1/21
Thumbnail Image                 : (Binary data 1977 bytes, use -b option to extract)
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby chrLz » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:23 am

First up, may I point out that any 'smoothed' enlargement, such as the second one shown by Arbitrageur above, will (not 'may') contain false detail introduced by the enlarging process - different enlarging algorithms will have different effects, so you really can't meaningfully analyse such data. Once you enlarge an image to the point where pixels begin to show (usually ~200%), then it's really game over. There is no free lunch, and despite what episodes of CSI might imply, you cannot reveal detail by simply magnifying and 'enhancing'. At some point I would like to post a lengthy dissertation on this topic! In the meantime, if you want a laugh, try this for size:
http://www.profindsearch.com/storm_ufo.htm
(credit goes to Why Not? for originally drawing my attention to this hilarious page, showing exctly how you can fool yourself (and others hopefully with credit cards and gullibility..) by taking your l33t photoshop skilz well beyond the useful limit...)

Second, it's a fairly low resolution image, and was saved as a jpeg, which means that *already* there will be false artefacts around edges from compression and in-camera sharpening. (Pro cameras use RAW and TIFF files to give better 'per-pixel' accuracy).

Third, to resolve anything meaningfully, you need *many* pixels. Two/three pixels may reveal an edge if it's in the right spot, but to reveal useful detail? You need many, many more pixels than we have here.

Fourth, 1/21sec is quite a slow shutter speed, indeed it is slow enough that a tiny hand movement could cause a single point light source to show a bright area, then a little trail to a second nearby bright area...

Please note I'm not suggesting that caused the double image! I'm not disputing the OP's report, but the point is that the image and it's exif just don't cut it as far as giving us something to usefully analyse. Without a serious camera with manual settings, manual focus, and several high-res shots (zoomed in, and then back to show it relative to the landscape), we would be pedalling uphill to make use of such an image.

My best guess for an earthly explanation is simply two aircraft on a holding flight path. They could be a kilometre or more apart but both following a path that is almost straight at the viewer. You will then see the two bright points. But at some point they will turn away, and at that moment, not only will they rapidly move apart and away, the brightness will drop to almost nothing as the landing lights are no longer pointing at you... So you look back.. and your figure eight is gone. Could also be a couple of military aircraft.

Maybe someone with more time than me might work on the direction of the sighting, and then look at the nearby airport/s and their standard holding patterns, if available.
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby mosfet » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:30 pm

I saw something similar to that, judging by the available the image. I live near a military airport and also a commercial airport. On the night I saw the dual lights I observed it for awhile because it was unusual. Now I've seen plenty of the military craft landing with their headlights on. But this was far from the airport. It turned out to be a small plane that apparently had left its headlights on. As the plane would bank and turn the perspective on the lights would change but it was only until it flew overhead that I could tell it was a small plane and even at that I could not hear it.
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby Arbitrageur » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:11 pm

chrLz wrote:First up, may I point out that any 'smoothed' enlargement, such as the second one shown by Arbitrageur above, will (not 'may') contain false detail introduced by the enlarging process - different enlarging algorithms will have different effects, so you really can't meaningfully analyse such data.

I agree completely about the false detail (in fact I agree completely with pretty much your entire post), and I've seen people point out details in processed images that certainly were not in the original. But please notice I didn't do that. Everything I looked at was in both images.

The reason I like to view the processed image is not to look at detail, but quite the opposite. On a high enlargement with a relatively small number of pixels, the pixels are so blocky that they may mask the overall shape of the object, which after processing begins to visually resemble the true object more closely. But this is more of an overall shape exercise rather than looking for detail. I suppose it's even questionable for that purpose but I have found it useful in the past.

In any case, it sounds like some planes appearing stationary is a plausible explanation to both of us.

And I noticed the reference to the airport by the photographer, which makes me think it's in the vicinity of the photograph, though they didn't say how far away it was. So when you're near an airport, you're going to see planes, which from certain angles to certain people, don't always look like planes.
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Re: Possible UAP

Postby longhaircowboy » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:31 pm

Hope this answers some of your questions. I checked the nights star charts and maps and ruled out celestial objects. I then checked the flight logs for the two local airports and couldn't find any inbound or outbound flights that matched up. My best guess as to the distance from is probably a couple of miles but I have no frame of reference(you know like a mountain or some other distance marker). As far as the position in the sky it was about at 10 o'clock high. I'm sorry but I can't send it to anyone because 6 months ago I was the victim of a robbery and the rat #$@%#&% got my photo collection. Any other quenstions fire away.
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