Buzz Aldrin UFO

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Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby longhaircowboy » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:25 pm

What exactly did Aldrin see 40 years ago? He claims it was unidentified and many think he saw either the S_IVB or the panel(s) from it.
Heres the trancript of the transmission at the time when apollo 11 asked for its(S-IVB) position.
Apollo 11: 'Do you have any idea where the S-IVB is with respect to us?
Mission Control: 'Stand-by'
Pause
Mission Control: 'Apollo 11, Houston. The S-IVB is about 6,000 nautical miles
from you now, over.'

Obviously they thought what they were seeing may have been the S-IVB. And Aldrin has had his share of people misinterpreting his words.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzz_Aldrin
In 2005, while being interviewed for a documentary titled First on the Moon: The Untold
Story, Aldrin told an interviewer that they saw an unidentified flying object. Aldrin
told David Morrison, an NAI Senior Scientist, that the documentary cut the crew's
conclusion that they were probably seeing one of four detached spacecraft adapter
panels. The crew was told that their S-IVB upper stage was 6,000 miles away. However,
the panels were jettisoned before the S-IVB made its separation maneuver, so this
panel would closely follow the Apollo 11 spacecraft until its first midcourse
correction
. When Aldrin appeared on The Howard Stern Show on August 15, 2007,
Stern asked him about the supposed UFO sighting. Aldrin confirmed that there was no
such sighting of anything deemed extraterrestrial, and said they were and are "99.9
percent" sure that the object was the detached panel.

Interviewed by the Science Channel, Aldrin mentioned seeing unidentified objects, and
he claims his words were taken out of context; he asked the Science Channel to clarify
to viewers he did not see alien spacecraft, but they refused.

Is this a hoax perpetrated by the media to keep people watching the shows?
Or is this a cover up by the astronuats?
Last edited by longhaircowboy on Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:16 pm

longhaircowboy wrote:Is this a hoax perpetrated by the media to keep people watching the shows?
Or is this a cover up by the astronuats?


When you look at the scientific methodology used in the vast majority of UFO shows (or I should say LACK OF scientific methodology), it seems clear to me that it is the former.

The goal is to get viewers, not to be scientific. This is the only conclusion I can come to when I see Bill Birnes going off on-camera with his wild-ass, unsupported-by-evidence, theories of what may be happening with whatever he and his team are investigating. A producer (or production company providing funds) that is looking to garner the biggest audience would not only allow this nonsense, but would encourage it. Whereas, a producer who is going to great lengths to only present facts, and prevent idle speculation that has no basis in the facts, would never let rants like Birnes' reach the air.

My opinion.
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby longhaircowboy » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:31 pm

Actually Ray I wasn't refering to the ufo hunters non-show. What brought this to my attention was a show the other day commemorating the 40 year anniversary of Apollo 11 and they took some care to make mention of the fact that when the astronauts asked about the S-IVBs location they were in fact holding back from Mission Control that they may be lookking at a UFO. However once the positioning was cleared up they decided to catch 40 winks and save it for another day.
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby lost_shaman » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:45 pm

Is this a hoax perpetrated by the media to keep people watching the shows?
Or is this a cover up by the astronuats?


I doubt either one of those is correct. However, this sighting is interesting in it's own right. Many people believe that the crew were observing one of the panels and Buzz believes this as well.

The problem there is that when you roughly calculate the distances based on published trajectory changes the likelihood that the crew was observing a panel becomes increasingly slim to nonexistent. Based on what they said they observed it is more likely that they were seeing something relatively small and close rather than a panel; likely something that worked itself loose from the CSLM itself and slow drifting away due to the small centrifugal force imparted by the slowly rotating CSLM.
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby Access Denied » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:43 pm

lost_shaman wrote:The problem there is that when you roughly calculate the distances based on published trajectory changes the likelihood that the crew was observing a panel becomes increasingly slim to nonexistent.

Evidence?
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby longhaircowboy » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:26 am

I recently went through Buzz Aldrins 1989 book, Men from Earth and there's nothing there to indicate otherwise(although his rants about the Soviet space program show the pressure that NASA was under). The clear concesus was that it was either the S-IVB or a loose panel. All the distances and trajectories match up.
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby lost_shaman » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:48 am

Access Denied wrote:Evidence?


Simple go ahead and calculate a rough distance for a Panel yourself based on published trajectory changes of the CSLM after panel seperation that took place roughly 27 mins (03:17- MET) after the completion of the TLI burn until this sighting roughly around the 60 hour mark MET.

Then the likelihood that the crew was observing a panel is open for discussion. IMO the likelihood is slim to nonexistant based on what the crew said they saw both with their eyes and through the optics and the distances involved based on trajectory differences between the CSLM and the nearest panel as they can be roughly calculated based on published data. I think a smaller closer peice of debris from the CSLM itself more likely best describes the object observed.

longhaircowboy wrote:All the distances and trajectories match up.


Are the distances and trajectories the same as those published by NASA? I believed they were and I stand by my opinion.
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby longhaircowboy » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:06 am

Indeed they do. It rules out the S-IVB and points to one of the panels. In any case it wasn't an ET craft. Just space debris. The one thing it does prove is our presence in space and the reality of a moon landing.
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby lost_shaman » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:16 am

If the book doesn't specifically cite a specific distance would you humor me and give me your best guess as to what a good rough estimate of distance might have been?


[Mod Edit: accidentally edited post by clicking edit instead of reply, not sure if anything is missing now]
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby Access Denied » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:37 am

lost_shaman wrote:If the book doesn't specifically cite a specific distance would you humor me and give me your best guess as to what a good rough estimate of distance might have been?

Why? What’s wrong with the 670 mile rough estimate you were given here…

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/fo ... &p=2934131

Go ahead and knock yourself out and show us your calculations (it’s your claim so the burden of proof is on you to present your data) but be aware Buzz says they were 99.9% sure it was one of the four SLA panels and you know what happens to people that dare question him...

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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby lost_shaman » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:47 am

Access Denied wrote:
lost_shaman wrote:If the book doesn't specifically cite a specific distance would you humor me and give me your best guess as to what a good rough estimate of distance might have been?

Why? What’s wrong with the 670 mile rough estimate you were given here…

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/fo ... &p=2934131


Spying on my posts from other forums now? LOL.

Well, for one thing I had to correct this individual on the published trajectory changes multiple times starting after his assertion that the panels were moving parallel alongside the CSLM with only a small 5/10 fps lateral separation.

at 5 FPS lateral separation velocity, the thing would've been almost 200 miles away...at 10 FPS, 410 miles away.

[snip]

and the SLA panels (which were moving at the same velocity as the spacecraft, with a slight outward relative velocity


Fine, so the guy admits his mistake, but then goes off into an imaginary senario were the CSLM slows sending the panels racing off ahead of the CSLM only to have the CSLM speed back up and overtake the panels resulting in a 300 mile seperation at 60 hours MET. This is totally imaginary and again has to be corrected. Only then does he come up with a distance which I then accepted on the very low side ONLY for the sake of argument in that thread. But even there his calculations are flawed because he considers the evasive manuever slowed the CSLM 16 fps relative to the panels producing ~ 300 miles of seperation at the time of MCC2 then he considers that the MCC2 slowed the CSLM by 15 fps resulting in a further ~330 miles of seperation at this point he simply adds the two numbers to get a figure of ~ 620 miles of seperation. He failed to realise that the MCC2 deceleration of 15 fps actually means that the CSLM was then 31 fps slower than the panels therefore his second figure should have been ~ 700 miles not 330 miles!

Using his numbers that I really have no objection to 16 & 15fps respectively and the rough times involved this is what he should have come up with.

_ 55.5hrs*3,600sec = 199,800sec*16fps = 3,196,800/5280ft = 605.45
+ 33.25hrs*3,600sec = 119,700sec*15fps = 1,795,500ft/5280ft = 340.05nm
= 945.5nm

Of course had you done the rough calculations yourself or at least checked this guy's excuse for a calculation I'm sure you would have seen his error before asking me whats wrong with the estimate. But you didn't... [-X
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby ryguy » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:47 pm

lost_shaman wrote:Spying on my posts from other forums now? LOL.


AD commonly keeps his ears to the ground when it comes to Ufology forums, blogs and discussions that are going on out there.

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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby Access Denied » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:19 am

ryguy wrote:
lost_shaman wrote:Spying on my posts from other forums now? LOL.

AD commonly keeps his ears to the ground when it comes to Ufology forums, blogs and discussions that are going on out there.

Actually, I just happened to stumble across that post while searching for Phil’s "UFOs For Dummies" graphic… imagine my surprise. :)

lost_shaman wrote:Of course had you done the rough calculations yourself or at least checked this guy's excuse for a calculation I'm sure you would have seen his error before asking me whats wrong with the estimate. But you didn't... [-X

Actually, I think both of you could be wrong and it may have been even further away than either of you calculated but considering the poor attitude you’ve displayed both here and in that thread, I’m inclined to keep my opinion to myself. As your opponent so eloquently put it…

”You're more interested in pointing out my errors than in actually realizing that your ideas are incorrect.”

But that’s neither here or there... regardless of how far away you think it was, you still haven’t presented any evidence that rules out one of the SLA panels as being the best fit for the reported observation.
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby lost_shaman » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:13 am

Access Denied wrote:But that’s neither here or there... regardless of how far away you think it was, you still haven’t presented any evidence that rules out one of the SLA panels as being the best fit for the reported observation.


Yes, you are right. I have not presented evidence to support my opinion.

I assume that I have the right to be skeptical in the absence of evidence. i.e. there is no evidence that I can find that expressly points to an SLA panel over the S-IVB.
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Re: Buzz Aldrin UFO

Postby longhaircowboy » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:03 am

Ah but here's the real rub. In their recorded transmission they asked for the distance to the S-IVB not SLA panels.
Also note they were observing in a vacuum and not in an atmosphere(this would have an effect on perspective).
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