Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

General UFO stories

Moderators: ryguy, chrLz, Zep Tepi

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:42 am

**Mod Edit**

Post deleted by request.
User avatar
James Carlson
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:11 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM


Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby lost_shaman » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:14 am

Tim Hebert wrote:James,

Please see my PMs to you on both RU and missileforums.com.

Alright, here's the good news, you now have people attempting to look at the issue logically on "that" site. And they are starting to question the motives of the administrator and moderators. That's pretty damn impressive considering the psych make up of that group!


Tim Hebert wrote:Forget about that silly-assed site and start looking at legit outlets to get your story out. RU's blog is a good start. Anybody know someone at Skeptical Enquirer that could be used as a push back?

Tim


UM is one of my favorite little UFO forums and I've been a member there for years. Whatever happened a few hours ago is unprecedented for that site I can assure you. I think it's prudent to at least wait until there is some sort of statement from the Admin. at UM before trashing the whole UM community. By and large the UM community of Reg's is great that's why I suspect James continued to bother posting there in the first place.

So what happened?

I have no idea, but I can say I've never seen it before on UM. Nor have I ever seen the Admin. go completely silent over something when so many seem concerned either. I hope they restore James' posts in a timely manner. I predict that UM is doomed to self destruct if that doesn't happen, but I at least want to hear from the UM Admin. before the whole "site" is condemned as "silly-assed" and involved in some conspiracy against James. I honestly don't believe that to be the case. People at UM want to hear what James is saying. They are all as shocked about this as James is and I am. Writing the "site" off before we know what happened is premature.
User avatar
lost_shaman
Focused on Reality
Focused on Reality
 
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:56 am

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby lost_shaman » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:06 am

There ya go... Situation at UM resolved.

UM Admin.

The truth is simple, forum software is a complicated beast and sometimes things don't work the way they are supposed to - what you saw was the result of the software accidentally flagging someone as a spam user when they weren't one. Apologies to James for any inconvenience, his account has been re-enabled and his posts restored.
User avatar
lost_shaman
Focused on Reality
Focused on Reality
 
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:56 am

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Tim Hebert » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:54 pm

Okay, UM is off my "silly assed" list. I apparently jumped the gun on this one, though still believe that James should look for other main stream venues to promote his view point. Thanks LS for pointing this out.

Tim
Tim Hebert
Focused on Reality
Focused on Reality
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby astrophotographer » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:47 pm

Tim Hebert wrote:Forget about that silly-assed site and start looking at legit outlets to get your story out. RU's blog is a good start. Anybody know someone at Skeptical Enquirer that could be used as a push back?


I know that Robert Shaeffer reads SUNlite often and he is aware of the articles James wrote. He writes "psychic vibrations" for SI. J. Oberg also writes for SI and, to the best of my knowledge, he also has read SUNlite. So, the word will eventually get out as I keep plugging the blog entries and such in the newsletter. However, from the UFO proponent point of view, SI is not legit. Hastings blasted it for their article about Big Sur and the head nodders followed suit instead of asking legit questions about Hastings research (including the "scientifically-based" International UFO Reporter!). The only way to get the story out is for some independent media were to take up the cause against the missile shutdown being caused by UFOs. Of course, that won't happen because they are not into debunking. Most of them just like to keep promoting mysteries and the science magazines refuse to touch the stuff.
User avatar
astrophotographer
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:46 pm

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Tim Hebert » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:56 pm

Tim,

I'm afraid that you're right about any other media outlet. UFO proponents "skeptical" about SI? I have to smirk at the irony. Anyway, it appeared from what I read that James was making some headway on the UM site and now that he is able to continue hopefully more people will at least look at the alternative research and maybe...just maybe...apply Occam's Razor. We will have to wait and see.

The other Tim
Tim Hebert
Focused on Reality
Focused on Reality
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Tim Hebert » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:20 am

I just finished scoping out the UM site. James has yet to post, but from the looks of it, he has them debating the issues in fine fashion. One individual actually came to the conclusion that none of the witnesses saw a UFO. It only took over 1000 posts to reach that thought. Not surprising the UFO holdouts are wrapped around the eye witness statements...they're going with subjective critera and ignoring the objective data. Typical fallacy of drawing a logical and rational conclusion. Subjective data is important if you can read between the lines, ie, they are missing "what the witnesses are NOT saying." That type of subjective data is priceless in a 40-plus year old case. Anyway, its an interesting discourse that's on-going.

Tim
Tim Hebert
Focused on Reality
Focused on Reality
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:03 am

Many people have asked why my father hasn't been interviewed to the extent that Col. Walt Figel was. I asked him, therefore, to give me some kind of a written statement. It's actually pretty fun to read; if anybody believes that this statement is not from my father, then ask him yourself. As Salas has repeatedly insisted that my father confirms his version of this event, I think it's necessary to examine the contents of this statement.

To enable a fuller understanding of my Dad's communication with me, I'd like to point out a few facts first: (1) Salas says my father confirms his story; (2) throughout my interest in this event, Robert Hastings has repeatedly stated that my father told him I have severe mental problems that have worried my family, implying that the arguments I've made, and the issues I've examined cannot be trusted as a result of these mental problems; I am seriously considering a law suit directed at Robert Hastings for slander and defamation of character; and (3) critics, particularly Robert Hastings, have suggested that my father has memory problems, and that his testimony, to a great extent, cannot be trusted for that reason. With these facts in mind, I ask that you please give his statement the attention it deserves:

Let me start by stating that, as best as I can recall, my only contact with Salas and Hastings has been on the phone. I did tell Salas that he could release my name to whomever he wished, don't know why he needed my permission. I have talked to a newspaper writer in Great Falls, several years age, and a TV producer from one of those UFO shows. With both these individuals I denied any knowledge of any UFO's at Malmstrom. In addition, I stated that there was no, repeat no, incident at Oscar flight as Salas maintains. The man is either lying or delusional.

My onlly contact with Hastings was a call I received from him regarding his book. I stated that his book sounded interesting and he later sent me a copy which I read and gave away to Gabriel or Kier. At no time did I mention anyones mental status; yours, mine, his, or Salas', although in retrospect I could comment on Salas'.

My memory is quite good regarding the events at Malmstrom and there is no doubt in my mind that there were no reports of UFO's and no incident at Oscar flight. I will be willing to discuss this with anyone who is truly interested in the facts.

Be sure and let me know when you write something else as your e-book was factual and interesting.


I hope that satisfies everyone, but I doubt it will.

James Carlson
User avatar
James Carlson
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:11 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby ryguy » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:27 pm

Part II of the Malmstrom blog series is now published. This update includes Walt's own words, as written to James.

http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/20 ... t-part-ii/

Enjoy!

-Ryan
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby astrophotographer » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:33 pm

Another enjoyable read but Hastings and Salas (as well as the rest of their supporters) are going to ignore it hoping it will go away. Who knows, maybe some intelligent report going to the dog and pony show will do some real research, stumble across this blog, and ask a tough question or two at Salas/Hastings. One can only hope. It would be interesting to see them squirm a bit.
User avatar
astrophotographer
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:46 pm

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:04 am

I've been making a concerted effort the past two weeks to go out to as many news agencies as possible in an attempt to inform them that there are more reliable explanations of what occurred than those presented by Salas and Hastings, and I know for a fact that someone has been reading them. Today I received a number of email communications from various UFO stars in the starry firmament, including some guys at NICAP and Ray Fowler, who figures prominently in my narrative as one of those who initially helped to create the "UFO rumors" discussed in the command history that Salas used as his first, and only, FOIA resolved documentation. It's apparent from the email Fowler wrote, that he doesn't consider "evidence" to be very important to confirm, and seems to suggest that I should have just let everything go, since we all know that UFOs are seriously interested in nuclear weapons facilities anyway. I wrote him that I didn't give a damn about other facilities, and that I consider his actions in the past as I would the self-serving demonstrations of any other U.S. citizen who decided that his oath and professional ethics shouldn't be adhered to if UFOs were involved. Basically, he had a legal clearance that he misused in order to list his suspicions with Dr. Roy Craig of the Condon Committee, who had no such clearance. He should have been arrested. Apparently now he thinks we should defer to his very poor judgment, and it doesn't matter, I suppose, whether the UFOs were real or not. Everytime I hear from one of these self-serving wretches, I always hear the same thing; UFOs are real, and you shouldn't make these claims without bothering to understand the environment they developed in. Well, Hell, I'm not the guy who betrayed his country before even attempting to ascertain the facts of what he was delivering to Craig -- Fowler did that, which makes him at least partially responsible, if not fully responsible, for the rumors that developed. They should have thrown his cowardly ass in jail -- as it was, he got lucky. NICAP wrote that I wasn't doing my father any favors, and that my "unwanted 'defense'" of his past history "contradicts his own accounts", implying that eventually someone's going to compare what I wrote with the confirmation supposedly held by Salas. Do those people ever try to figure things out before going on the record? Are they simply unaware that everything I've said has been confirmed already? I think they trusted Salas and Hastings overly much, and never bothered to attempt any confirmation at all. Fer chrissakes, 30 seconds and a google search would have taken them right to my father's own statement. It's not like he's dead, or anything. They could talk to him tomorrow if they bother to put some effort into it. Just for laughs, I'm still deciding whethe or not it would be useful to print these communications. I'm going to hold off for now, but it would be nice if someone who immediately assumes that I'm lying in order to facilitate some weird, currently unknown outcome would make a couple phone calls first before making such meaningless statements. Then I wouldn't have write back to them and say, "you don't know half as much as you think you do, pal, so knock it off and do a little simple reading first -- the least you could do is get my motivations right." Fortunately, I was also sent an email indicating that not everyone standing on the other side of the fence is completely convinced of my apparently villainous nature, and for that I am feeling particularly thankful.
User avatar
James Carlson
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:11 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby ryguy » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:09 pm

They should have thrown his cowardly ass in jail -- as it was, he got lucky. NICAP wrote that I wasn't doing my father any favors, and that my "unwanted 'defense'" of his past history "contradicts his own accounts", implying that eventually someone's going to compare what I wrote with the confirmation supposedly held by Salas. Do those people ever try to figure things out before going on the record? Are they simply unaware that everything I've said has been confirmed already?


LOL...hard to believe that this is the state of things. Don't worry though - as I mentioned to you in PM, there are two more updates, each will consecutively provide a direct answer to what these fools have emailed you about. Talk about having egg on their faces, eh?

Hold on to those communications - it'll be fun contacting these morons for a statement after we've printed the facts that dispute what they've held as sacred "truths" for so long. :-)
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby pork » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:21 pm

I have been watching this and waiting to comment--but may I please put myself and my comments in perspective for you first(?). I am wading into this and throwing this out there--not to debate, but to state...then back away. Take it for what you will--as he is gone, and I don't care about judgement -take it or leave it. No proof,except a father and son's conversations in confidence.
I am a refugee of OMF, I appreciate RU and truth.... I am a UFO witness, but have serious issues with the community, witnesses, motives, bullshoot et al. I had not heard of Salas, Faded Giant or this incident before I found OMF--but my father had told me about 'them' about 1985ish.
I am the surviving son of a USAF (SAC) CCC who was stationed @ MAFB from 75 to 79. He left the USAF in 1979 but remained in Reserve until his death in 1994. My father had a BS from U of AR, a MS from FIT....commissioned in 1968. He was a VN Vet, stationed at W-P AFB, Patric AFB, Malmstrom, Barksdale in addition to others. My father was very conflicted indiv, and was very patriotic and pro security. He was violently oppossed to UFOs-yet told me they existed, he had seen them, but would refuse to discuss it publicly. He was a well grounded man of science and nuts, much less bolts.

My father told my UFOs had been at Malmstrom...that the USAF was powerless to stop them, that the magnetic pollution was destructive to tape drives. He said it was an issue-an was discussed in doctrine, in training, a topic among rocket jocks. We lived on base and my parents were very social--and UFOs were common knowledge...but the topic was taboo and not good for one's career. He told me they were the size of three football fields, would glow dull orange, yellow and red. He was completely terrified of them--he said the ICBMs were obsolete and vulnerable. Jets couldn't catch them despite the size, and humans were screwed. The psychological impact could not be underestimated--and his faith and foundation was literally destroyed by 'them'. He saw them.

As to this back and forth--I quit. The RT/Source A nonsense has ruined it all for me. If I don't see it, hold it in my hand--I don't care! Some great peeps on here know me, and my word stands on it's own. As a man, a father, a husband...I am furious about scammers.
pork
In Search of Reality
In Search of Reality
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Access Denied » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:16 pm

Hey Pork,

After your first post about this Tim asked you…

Tim Hebert wrote:What squadrong and flight did your father pull his alerts?

And you answered…

pork wrote:My father was Michael D ********** and was assigned to the 341 Strategic Missle Wing of SAC.

Any chance you could be more specific? Perhaps you have access to your father’s military records? The Wing level is fairly broad.

pork wrote:My father told my UFOs had been at Malmstrom...that the USAF was powerless to stop them, that the magnetic pollution was destructive to tape drives.

I’ve never heard anything about UFOs causing problems with tape drives but perhaps Tim can speak more fully to this. As I understand it, most of this equipment was underground in a fairly well shielded environment so I imagine that would have to be one heck of a strong magnetic field. Seems like it would cause other more noticeable problems on the surface and elsewhere like tools flying around etc…

pork wrote:IHe said it was an issue-an was discussed in doctrine, in training, a topic among rocket jocks.

This I doubt but again, perhaps Tim can speak more fully to this. I’ve certainly never heard anything like that during my training or career with the Air Force.

Also, in your first post you said…

pork wrote:I will in short tell that he witnessed a huge craft the size of three football fields in length....while on station.

And added in your latest post…

pork wrote:He told me they were the size of three football fields, would glow dull orange, yellow and red.

No offense but it sounds like your father must be mistaken. I don’t see any way something of that size would not have been seen by many other people both military and civilian and widely reported, especially if this happened on more than one occasion as it seems your father implied.

Tom
Men go and come but Earth abides.
User avatar
Access Denied
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:32 am
Location: [redacted]

Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:59 pm

Interesting that your father's experiences would be so different from my father's experiences at the same command where such experiences are supposedly "discussed in doctrine, in training, a topic among rocket jocks". Are you sure that's not just a little embellished? Because anything that's "discussed in doctrine, in training, a topic among rocket jocks" has to be written down, and I haven't found squat -- and I've actually looked. I've also talked to a lot of "rocket jocks", and most of them consider Robert Hastings to be a writer of fiction. What you're saying is pretty much the same thing I keep hearing from people on other websites: I hate scammers, but even scammers can't change the facts, and the facts insist that UFOs are extremely interested in our nuclear weapons -- you can't change the facts. Don't misunderstand me, please: I'm not saying this is necessarily what you believe, only that it's the impression you give. As for me, I fail to see how any facts that assert the actual presence of UFOs have ever been proven in this argument. What you're describing couldn't possibly be hidden, and couldn't be kept secret. And yet, most "rocket jocks" are unaware of all these UFOs or "that the USAF was powerless to stop them". It sounds as if you're just trying to assert "facts" where "facts" have yet to be established, and that's something I've seen an awful lot of from people like Robert Hastings and Robert Salas. Whatever, though -- it's not really that important.

But this is:

If you believe in UFOs, and you want other people to believe in UFOs also, it should be immediately apparent that the biggest obstacle preventing most people from acknowledging that belief is either those folks who lie about UFOs, and do so continuously for whatever reason, or it's those people who are so unbelievably naive or ignorant that they will believe literally anything you try to sell them. I think it would behoove you, therefore, to find out who these individuals are for yourself, and mark them so other people who feel the way you do will know immediately that this guy is an idiot, or that guy is a liar. Don't wait for people like me, or people like the guys here at RU to do it -- do it yourself. Unfortunately, looking at the phenomena from my side of the fence, most of the people who believe in UFOs will literally believe anything you tell them, and they don't even apply the barest of fact-checks to the stories they hear. In such a world, it's a little hard to respect people who profess a belief in UFOs as you describe. I honestly don't mean to offend you, but when the only people who are pointing out the really egregious liars and fools are the guys who think UFOs are a joke, it's very difficult to think of you guys as being anything less than the gullible, possibly brain-damaged impresarios of the insane that really bad sitcoms incessantly portray you as. The banality of foolishness is much easier to accept when those possessed of such banality are incapable of saying, "well, now, that doesn't sound very likely -- you're going to have to do better than that ..."
Last edited by James Carlson on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
James Carlson
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:11 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PreviousNext

Google

Return to UFOs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 13 guests

cron