Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Buckwild » Thu May 05, 2011 4:07 pm

Hi folks,

If I was James Carlson and I could prove what I stated about my top-secret clearance, I would do it and then get back on with the subject, even it this does not have (or seem to) anything to do with it.

Think about people reading this topic who do not know this case very well or at all, they might wonder why JC does not want to comply. Just a suggestion and my POV.

++
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby astrophotographer » Thu May 05, 2011 6:15 pm

As I told James privately, I was looking at the copy of my service record last night. I tried to locate my records of security clearances. I had a secret clearance when aboard Submarines and when we went on a mission that required it, I signed non-disclosure agreements regarding the mission which was usually classified TOP SECRET - Code word. This happened three or four times in my career. They are not in my record. In fact, my security clearance paperwork (OPNAV 5520) only goes to 1985 when I transferred from USS Lafayette to my shore duty station in Orlando. At that point I was downgraded from SECRET to CONFIDENTIAL. My classification status changed when I reported back on USS providence and USS Honolulu. I looked at some of the papers I retained when I exited the navy but those were mostly transfer orders and evaluations. I have yet to look at my Microfiche copies, where I still might have some OPNAV 5520 that did not make it into the record that BUPERS sent to the retention vault. The point of all this , is James may not have anything in his record indicating he was authorized to TOP SECRET -CODE WORD materials simply because it was probably not part of his service record that was retained. However, his position as a Yeoman at a command involved with highly classified materials (it would be in his job description and probably his evaluations), would expose him to such materials since all the reports were typed up first by the Yeoman (the navy's version of a clerk) before being signed by the Commanding Officer/Officer in charge.
Last edited by astrophotographer on Thu May 05, 2011 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby ryguy » Thu May 05, 2011 6:52 pm

Buckwild wrote:Think about people reading this topic who do not know this case very well or at all, they might wonder why JC does not want to comply. Just a suggestion and my POV.


Well - from my vantage point it's more important for the person making a claim to provide his credentials first. If he wants JC to provide his credentials in turn, I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem, but JC isn't the one making the claim that requires the evidence.

I think most people reading this will wonder why Auburnarn does not want to comply, after making such a claim as he's just made?

If I were James, I'd hold back my credentials as a bargaining chip. I'll show you mine after you show me yours. Period.

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Tim Hebert » Thu May 05, 2011 7:55 pm

This whole issue of who held what sort of security clearance is a distraction. If "auburnam" is unwilling to answer some of my simple questions then the security clearance is irrelevant. I held a Top Secret-ESI (Extra Sensitive Information), but am unable to provide that fact even from what little copies of my records that I currently have available. The telling points of one's knowledge and expertise can be somewhat gleemed from the body of work that one posts, which includeds providing answers to questions for clarification.

Did Auburnam provide a copy of his DD 214? That appears to have been the starting point of this security background distraction.

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Access Denied » Fri May 06, 2011 4:59 am

Tim Hebert wrote:Did Auburnam provide a copy of his DD 214?

No, but James did, the details of which, including the organization he was assigned to, shall remain confidential unless he tells us otherwise...
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue May 10, 2011 10:38 am

Auburnam has provided copy of his form DD-214, which I received in the mail a few days ago. While this does verify his service, it does not verify the claims he made regarding his security clearances.

The method he provided here in the forum in order for us to verify his clearances was a non-starter from the start. He is the one who needs to provide proof of such by way of documentation. Telling someone to (essentially) ring so-and-so and they will confirm is absurd. It doesn't work like that and I'm sure he is well aware of that fact. To then go on and claim that he has provided proof and now James Carlson must do the same is also absurd. As it happens, James also provided a copy of his form DD-214 and he wasn't even requested to do so.

Auburnam has had his account here deactivated because of his failure to adhere to the rules of the forum. He made specific claims in his initial post(s), claims which were inconsistent with things he has said in the past. When questioned about this, he offered no reply but instead continued his attack on James Carlson. Even after being suspended and warned that he must address those questions in his very next post, he carried on as if nothing had happened.

Despite this, I have offered him the opportunity to come back and address these issues. I have received no reply thus far.

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby astrophotographer » Tue May 10, 2011 5:48 pm

DD214's usually mean very little. They verify service, training, and awards that were documented (sometimes these get missed in the shuffle). That is about it. You can' t verify security clearances. In fact, I was looking at all my various copies of my records and there is very little about security clearances in them. I have one document that says I had a security clearance up to SECRET and then it got downgraded to CONFIDENTIAL when I transferred to shore duty. For some reason, there is no upgrade when I went back to sea on that form even though I was exposed to SECRET (and on some occassions TOP SECRET operations). The best I can figure is that after the Walker scandal, they restricted my (and all other personnel not directly looking at the materials) clearance to just CONFIDENTIAL. When we went on special ops (the term used for missions that involved the sub doing things that were classified), we all received briefings and signed non-disclosure agreements about the type of mission, its classification code words, and anything else you might be exposed to during the operations.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Robert Hastings » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:42 am

My latest article on the Echo Flight shutdown incident—containing audio links to the tapes of my lengthy telephone conversations with former missile launch officer Walt Figel—has just been posted at:

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2011/06 ... -usaf.html

Excerpts from the article appear below:


The Echo Flight ICBM Incident:
Retired USAF Officer Confirms Receiving
A UFO Report Just as the Missiles Failed

By Robert Hastings
http://www.ufohastings.com

On March 16, 1967, ten Minuteman I nuclear missiles operated by Malmstrom Air Force Base’s Echo Flight suddenly malfunctioned, one after the other, just as a “large, round object” was reported hovering above one of them—according to retired USAF Col. Walter Figel, one of two launch officers on duty during the incident.

Figel received the startling news while in the missile flight’s underground Launch Control Capsule, during a two-way radio conversation with an Air Force security guard posted at the missile silo in question. Although highly skeptical of the report, then-Lieutenant Figel dispatched two-man Security Alert Teams to the field to investigate. At least one of them confirmed the presence of the UFO.

These astounding admissions were audio-taped, with Col. Figel’s permission, during three of our telephone conversations—in 2008, 2009 and 2010—in which Figel discussed the incident in great detail and, importantly, refuted the erroneous and deceptive claims of one James T. Carlson, who has posted countless messages in cyberspace over the past few years, falsely stating that there were no reports of a UFO being present at the time of the missile malfunctions.

BREAK

Links to excerpts from my 2008 conversation with Figel appeared in my article, “The Echo/Oscar Witch Hunt”, posted at The UFO Chronicles in September 2010. However, the full-length tape of that interview has never been publicly accessible—until now. A link to it has been inserted below, as well as links to the conversations I had with the retired colonel in 2009 and 2010.

BREAK

As previously noted, Carlson has completely misrepresented, in the most brazen manner, Col. Figel’s clearly confirmatory statements about a UFO being sighted at Echo Flight—as one will hear upon listening to my taped conversations with Figel, in which he repeatedly refutes Carlson’s falsehoods.

BREAK

As one will hear, Col. Figel also says that former Minuteman missile launch officer Bob Salas’ published statements about Echo are accurate, with two minor exceptions, and calls James Carlson’s version of the facts “misguided” and “off-base”. He also says that Carlson “has an ax to grind”.

BREAK

--Robert Hastings
http://www.ufohastings.com
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Robert Hastings » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:46 am

On June 3, 2011, Robert Hastings writes:

Regarding http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/tag/walter-figel/, I have inserted below my responses (RH) to Walter Figel’s comments (WF) about the missile shutdown incident at Malmstrom AFB’s Echo Flight on March 16, 1967:

[Steve Broadbent writes:]

Walt [Figel] finally responded at length to both James [Carlson] and I. He listed the major points that he believes are at issue here. Figel clearly states as of Sept 24th, 2010 – that not only does he believe UFOs were not involved at Echo Flight, but Figel also reveals some shocking insight into some of Salas’ other claims regarding issues beyond the Echo Flight case. Here is what Figel had to say on the matter:

WF: James,

First – your dad has not lied about anything nor do believe that he is even capable of lying about anything at all. He was, is, and always will be an honorable man. You should remember that always – I will.

RH: Figel is expressing an opinion here, not a statement of fact. Given that he has previously affirmed to me, on audio tape, that he received multiple eyewitness reports of a UFO-presence during the Echo Flight incident, and further affirmed that he had subsequently discussed those reports with Eric Carlson at length, the elder Carlson has either developed memory problems over time or he is indeed lying about not remembering the reports of a UFO presence. Unless Figel can read minds, he simply can not say whether Carlson has lied about not remembering all of that or, on the other hand, actually does not.

Moreover, if Carlson’s and Figel’s commander told them not to talk about the incident, including the reports of the UFO—as Figel explicitly stated during one my taped conversations with him—then one might conceivably argue that lying to outsiders, who have no need-to-know from the Air Force’s perspective, is in fact the “honorable” course of action.

Fortunately, almost all of the 120-plus military veterans I have interviewed over the years are of the opinion that, in a democratic society, the reality of UFO activity at nuclear weapons sites is a topic worthy of open, candid discussion and, therefore, the public’s right-to-know trumps military secrecy. In my view, these persons are honorable men as well and, importantly, history will validate their revelations.

WF: Second – Bob Salas was never associated with any shutdown of any missiles at any time in any flight and you can take that to the bank. Just think about this for a split second. He is a person wrapped up in UFOs to the Nth degree. Yet he could not remember he was not at Echo. Then he thought he was at November – wrong again. Then he thought he was at Oscar – wrong again.

RH: Col. Fredrick Meiwald, Bob Salas’ former missile commander at Malmstrom AFB, stated as early as 1996—during an audio-taped conversation with Salas—that he and Salas were indeed involved in a missile shutdown incident, at Oscar Flight, that was nearly identical to the Echo Flight UFO event.

Unfortunately, Walt Figel, who was not present at Oscar at the time, prefers to believe his own uninformed opinion on the subject, based on equally-uninformed statements by his friend Dick Evans, who supposedly would have known about the Oscar event if it really happened.

In reality, these extremely sensitive incidents are need-to-know, Walt and Dick. Neither of you had any need to know about the Oscar Flight UFO incident, regardless of your positions in the Air Force, during or after the event. (BTW, both Salas and Meiwald have said that they were never briefed on the Echo incident. And yet, according to Figel, the first of his ten missiles at Echo had failed moments before his conversation with the guard on-site, who reported observing a “large, round object” hovering over it. Gee, I wonder why something like that wouldn’t be shared with other missile crews who were not present at the time, Walt. To maintain secrecy, maybe? What a novel idea.)

In any case, during my own May 6, 2011 audio-taped conversation with Col. Meiwald—after I told him that James Carlson has repeatedly called Salas a liar and a fraud—Meiwald stated, “All I can say is something happened [at Oscar] and, to the best of my knowledge, Bob Salas has stated what he believes [to be] true and I’ve supported the majority of what he has said. I have read his book and [although] I can not, you know, support what other folks are saying, I know what happened at Oscar. I know that Bob has relayed what happened at Oscar very accurately.”

Meiwald then elaborated and said that he couldn’t support everything Salas has said about the incident because he had been resting/sleeping when the first missile or two dropped offline—which occurred moments after Salas received a report from the Oscar Flight Security Controller about a UFO hovering over the Launch Control Facility’s front gate.

Although Salas had quickly told Meiwald about that telephone conversation, Meiwald says that he can’t remember it. Just as Eric Carlson says he can’t remember Walt Figel telling him something very similar, shortly after he had been awakened by Figel and took his position at the commander’s consol in the Echo Launch Control Capsule. When I first spoke with Figel, in October 2008, he was clearly incredulous about the elder Carlson’s alleged inability to recall those events, as one will hear in Figel’s tone of voice, when listening to the taped conversation at:

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2011/06 ... el_03.html.

When I asked Meiwald to confirm, as he did on tape in 1996, that Salas had dispatched a two-man Security Alert Team to one of the Oscar missile sites, where an alarm had been triggered, and that the team had seen a UFO hovering over it, Meiwald readily complied. When I asked whether he could recall the description of the UFO, as reported to him by the frightened SAT team, Meiwald replied, “All I remember is a bright object; a bright, flying object at low-level. Beyond that, uh, I can’t say.”

In short, while Walt Figel may confidently claim that Salas “was never associated with any shutdown” of missiles at Malmstrom, Salas’ former missile commander, Col. Fred Meiwald, says otherwise. When I asked Meiwald whether he and Salas had been debriefed by an OSI agent back at Malmstrom and asked to sign national security non-disclosure statements, as Salas has long stated, Meiwald replied, “That did take place.”

My new article about the Oscar Flight UFO incident—containing an audio link to my recent, taped conversation with Col. Meiwald—will be posted at The UFO Chronicles soon.

WF: Third – There is no record about anything happening at November or Oscar except in people’s minds that are flawed beyond imagination. Salas has created events out of the thin air and can’t get the facts straight even then. My best friend to this day was the flight commander of the 10th SMS at the time. He and I have discussed this silly assertion in the past couple of years – he thinks it is all made-up nonsense for sure. I put both Salas and Hastings in touch with him and he has told them both that an incident at November or Oscar never happened. In addition he was subsequently stationed at Norton AFB where the engineers tested the possible problems. No little green men were responsible.

RH: Figel never put me in touch with his “best friend” Dick Evans. Moreover, Col. Meiwald told me that he had not spoken with Walt Figel for decades. If Figel would like to call Meiwald and discuss the events at Oscar Flight, as reported by both Salas and Meiwald, I’m certain that Meiwald would be willing to confirm what I have written here. (I do note, however, that Meiwald is reluctant to become involved in the ongoing controversy surrounding the events at Malmstrom in March 1967, so he may not respond to inquiries other than Figel’s.)

WF: Fourth – I have always maintained that I do not nor have I ever believed that UFOs exist in any form at any place at any time. I have never seen one or reported that I have seen one. I have always maintained that they had nothing to do with the shutdown of Echo flight in Montana.

RH: So what? Figel’s skepticism toward the report he received from the guard who was on-site should not be confused with the report itself, as Figel admitted to me—twice—during my taped conversations with him. The eyewitness report, later corroborated by other security personnel sent to the site by Figel, is the key point.
In other words, Figel’s inability to believe what he was being told by the guard posted at the stricken missile silo—who, according to Figel, was an apparent eyewitness to the presence of a “large, round object” hovering over the site—is irrelevant. After all, Bob Salas was skeptical, just as Figel was, when he was told about the UFO hovering over the Oscar Launch Control Facility.

Moreover, another of the USAF veterans participating in my September 27, 2010 UFOs and Nukes press conference, retired Captain Bruce Fenstermacher, who was a launch officer at F.E. Warren AFB in 1976, said that he had been skeptical when told of a cigar-shaped UFO hovering over his LCF.

And on and on. In short, these launch officers’ understandable incredulity regarding the bizarre events reported to them is not the point, only the events themselves.

In numerous cases, at various bases, multiple missile personnel and security guards have reported UFO incursions at ICBM sites. In some cases, those incidents are verified in declassified files, for example at Minot AFB in August 1966 and at Malmstrom AFB in November 1975. The testimony of my many ex-USAF sources makes clear the extent to which the Air Force has gone to suppress these incidents, to keep them from public view, and why so few of the documents relating to them ever see the light of day. (After the collapse of the USSR, a number of former Soviet Army officers confirmed the reality of nukes-related UFO incidents in that country during the Cold War era. But that’s another story.)

WF: Fifth – The event at Malmstrom has a hand written log from me that was turned in just like all the other logs that I wrote over several years. I would think that if I wrote something like that in the log, there would be copies, it would have been classified at the beginning and then released along with the classified SAC messages and base reports. Nothing in that urgent SAC message even hints of UFOs at all and I think that it would if the official logs or telephone calls had referenced that fact.

RH: Here Figel is speculating again—incorrectly as it turns out. Actually, many documents confirming a UFO-Nukes Connection have long been kept classified after other less-incriminating UFO sighting files have been released to the public. For example, as ex-U.S. Army document specialist and UFO researcher Jan Aldrich notes, “In a 1952 LOOK article, [then Project Blue Book chief, Captain Edward] Ruppelt mentions a file of 63 cases of UFOs over nuclear installations, but such a file is not in currently-declassified Blue Book files.”

Indeed, many of my ex-USAF sources have described being debriefed by OSI—just as Salas and Meiwald were—and yet all efforts by myself and other researchers to have the OSI agents’ reports and the witnesses’ signed non-disclosure statements declassified via the FOIA have thus far proved unsuccessful.

WF: Sixth – When it happened, neither your dad nor I were “visibly shaken” by the events. It was just another day with a unexpected event in our lives. It was rather underwhelming at the time. No one rushed out to see us, no one made us sign any papers, no one interrogated us for hours on end.

RH: Retired Col. Don Crawford says that Figel and Carlson were indeed “visibly shaken” when he saw them during the missile crew changeover at Echo Flight later that morning. During one of his taped conversations with me, Figel says he won’t dispute the fact that Crawford may have had that impression, even though Figel doesn’t think it was accurate.

But may I point out that Figel also doesn’t think that Bob Salas was ever involved in a missile shutdown incident, despite Col. Fred Meiwald’s confirmatory statements about the reality of the event at Oscar Flight.

Figel further claims to have “a pretty good memory” even though he told Salas, on tape in 1996, that both of the two-man SAT teams he had dispatched to the field had confirmed seeing the UFO initially reported by the guard already on-site, as did the missile maintenance personnel.

However, by 2008, when I first interviewed Figel, that particular memory had changed to only one of the two SAT teams confirming the presence of the UFO. (One may listen to Figel’s 1996 comments to Salas by utilizing the audio link in my article, “The Echo/Oscar Witch Hunt”, posted at The UFO Chronicles. Figel’s audio-linked 2008 comments to me were just posted at that website moments ago, together with links to the tapes of our lengthy conversations in 2009 and 2010.)

Face it, Walt, as we get older some things just don’t work as well as they did when we were younger. As I stated during one of our recorded conversations, I understand and accept that witness testimony relating to these decades-old events is always an approximation of what actually took place.

In that context, I find it interesting that both Bob Salas and Fred Meiwald have said, to me and others, that their memories of the long-ago incidents at Malmstrom are sketchy (as any honest human being would confess). In Salas’ case, he’s candidly admitted to initially misstating certain facts, but has voluntarily corrected himself once the evidence became available to substantiate the actual facts.

Of course, Bob’s candor about his prior mistakes has been used against him by James Carlson and others, who twist the facts and claim that Salas is not credible because his story has changed over time. I suppose that these same debunkers will now call Col. Meiwald a liar, given that he substantiates—on tape—most of Bob’s statements about Oscar Flight.

WF: There is no Air Force “cover-up” it just did not happen the way Salas and has portrayed the course of events. I am sorry that you are all caught up in a pissing contest with these people, I really am. They are just not going to let go no matter what you say or do. He has made a 15 year career pandering about the country talking about things he has no knowledge about. I am not at all interested in taking them on – it’s not worth my effort – I have more important things to do with my life. I much rather just stay out of it.

RH: No cover-up at Echo, Walt? In 2008, during our first taped conversation, you told me that, at the conclusion of your post-incident debriefing about the incident, your superiors had told you and Eric Carlson, “Thank you very much. Don’t talk about it.” True, you didn’t have to sign non-disclosure agreements, as Col. Meiwald says he and Salas did, but it’s clear that the incident at Echo, including the reports from the guards—no matter how many of them actually confirmed the UFO—was being officially suppressed by higher-ups.

WF: Hopefully, we can move on. I did read about a briefing on the 27th here in DC. I am here in VA about 10 miles away. Interesting. Hopefully this helps you and confirms to you at least that your dad is a straight shooter and does not lie to anyone.

RH: After it was brought to my attention that Figel would be working in northern Virginia on the day of my September 27, 2010 press conference in nearby Washington D.C., I sent him an email in which I invited him to attend, saying that some of the USAF veterans who would be participating in the event wanted to confront him about his wishy-washy, seemingly contradictory statements regarding Echo.

If Figel actually showed up and sat in the audience—which I doubt—he never identified himself or spoke up about anything being said by either myself or the veterans, including Bob Salas and Bob Jamison, the former ICBM targeting officer who states that he helped restart some of the missiles at Oscar Flight, which Salas and Col. Meiwald say dropped offline just as UFOs were being reported in the vicinity.

BTW, Jamison first told me of his involvement in the Oscar retargeting in 1992, some four years before Bob Salas went public with his revelations about his and Fred Meiwald’s involvement in a shutdown incident. As we now know, although Salas had forgotten the designation of the flight in question, Col. Meiwald first confirmed, on tape in 1996, that it had been Oscar, thereby corroborating the statements made to me by Jamison in 1992 (which were not published until 2008).

Sincerely,
Walt Figel
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby astrophotographer » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:09 pm

Gee.....I could swear I was listening to a broken record. You are just picking and choosing what you want to believe. Do you have anything new to add? Maybe just one document that a shutdown at Oscar did occur when you claim it did?
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby chrLz » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:42 am

Mr Hastings (?), I'd offer a few comments, as an up-to-now vaguely interested observer, who has now lost the will to live...

1. Walls of text are not particularly inviting.

2. They become far less inviting (and far less useful) when they are devoid of actual evidence and are largely padded out with he said/she said comments, personal observations, guesses at motives, smarmy snipes, and copouts and provisos like:

one might conceivably argue..
Gee, I wonder..
What a novel idea..
a person wrapped up in UFOs to the Nth degree..
he was clearly incredulous..
one will hear in {his} tone of voice..
I do note, however, that {he} is reluctant to become involved... so he may not respond..
So what?..
these launch officers’ understandable incredulity is not the point {irony noted}
that’s another story..

... Yes, you see this sort of approach in all serious research. The words of a matter of fact, serious investigator. :roll:

3. While inviting the reader to take a coffee BREAK may help, there wasn't much of an interval between them. If you were trying to imply that you deleted some text, an ellipsis (...) would have sufficed.


A couple of other observations..

You use the term audio tape and interview as if they mean that the content is correct or unexaggerated or correctly remembered or unbiased. Those terms mean NONE of those things, and you even point this out yourself - yet you still present the information as if you are the only person who knows which bits are accurate and which are not.

"History will validate their revelations" only if evidence fully supports those 'revelations' (term used very loosely). What you posted above doesn't do anything to help with that.

And why did you sign off as Mr Figel? I was confused enough before then.

Finally, do forgive me if I am not in your potential audience for your "new article about the Oscar Flight UFO incident.." that "will be posted soon". I've seen enough here. But I'm sure you will get the audience that you are targetting, and that you deserve.
"To wear the mantle of Galileo, it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment. You must also be right." - Robert L. Park (..almost)
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:18 am

Please excuse the length:

I'm amazed, Robert ... Once again you've failed entirely to familiarize yourself with the issues before attacking them. Allow me to educate you point by point, since you have apparently decided to argue a case and associated issues that have never been made, while those that have already been established are easily disposed of as a result of your own dishonest character. Of course, you don't have to read it, but I assure you, many others will.

On March 16, 1967, ten Minuteman I nuclear missiles operated by Malmstrom Air Force Base’s Echo Flight suddenly malfunctioned, one after the other, just as a “large, round object” was reported hovering above one of them—according to retired USAF Col. Walter Figel, one of two launch officers on duty during the incident.

There was no UFO reported, as both Walt Figel and my father have repeatedly attested. Your insistence otherwise is no more than the effects of your own inability to examine their statements and their testimony with anything even approaching an honest attempt.

Figel received the startling news while in the missile flight’s underground Launch Control Capsule, during a two-way radio conversation with an Air Force security guard posted at the missile silo in question. Although highly skeptical of the report, then-Lieutenant Figel dispatched two-man Security Alert Teams to the field to investigate. At least one of them confirmed the presence of the UFO.

Figel received a statement intended as jest from a maintenance technician who happened to be 6-10 feet underground at the time, and was therefore unable to see anything at all. That notification, as Figel has repeatedly affirmed, was not a two-way radio communication, but a communication over the SIN telephone that was underground in the silo complex. Your own transcripts of your conversation with Figel establish this completely, leading to the numerous charges regarding your poor analysis and comprehension of details. Only the security escort had charge of the two-way radio in order to facilitate an immediate response to the capsule crew and the security crew should an actual incursion occur. This was standard, exactly as Figel told you. At the time, the security guard, who was still topside, made no reports at all about a UFO, not even to his immediate superior in security. He reported nothing, because there was nothing there. Had an actual UFO been overhead at the time, as you claim, he would have been brought up on charges of dereliction of duty for not reporting it immediately. This also did not occur, because the security guard in question did nothing wrong, as there was no UFO for him to fail to report.

Your transcripts also make clear the fact that the maintenance technician who jokingly mentioned a UFO had to be awakened by the security guard in order to check the status of the missile as ordered by Figel. They had spent the night at the silo in order to conduct repairs and testing. When the missiles first started going offline, Figel had the security guard awaken the technician so he could confirm the status of the missile, which your own transcripts once again illustrate. It takes about forty minutes to open up the silo in order to descend into the maintenance room to check the missile's status as ordered. During this entire period, neither the security escort nor the maintenance technician reported anything at all. I'm surprised that you're so woefully ignorant even of your own materials.

In addition, Figel did not dispatch a two-man Security Alert Teams to the field in order to investigate a UFO. That team had also spent the night at one of the silos. Other teams were dispatched merely to establish missile status upon their initial failure, a requirement whenever missiles failed, which was often in 1967. What you call a "confirmation" was actually no more than one of the security personnel stating "Hey! I see one too!" This was also delivered in jest, exactly as Figel has repeatedly insisted, and exactly as he interpreted this mention. It's telling as well that the maintenance technician who was with this particular security guard neglected to mention the matter at all to his chain of command, another act that would have lead to charges of dereliction of duty had a UFO actually been observed.

You are already aware of this, because that is what Figel told you, and what he told me. Your failure to mention this detail is more proof of both your dishonesty and your poor analysis. This doesn't surprise me at all, as you have repeatedly lied in regard to very many subjects associated with this case, including your insistence in March 2010 that you had recorded and would make public a new interview with Figel establishing his complete affirmation of your UFO theory, and which would assert completely that I had never actually discussed the matter at all with Figel. You told this particular lie for six months for no reason other than discrediting the interviews with Figel that I have made public.

These astounding admissions were audio-taped, with Col. Figel’s permission, during three of our telephone conversations—in 2008, 2009 and 2010—in which Figel discussed the incident in great detail and, importantly, refuted the erroneous and deceptive claims of one James T. Carlson, who has posted countless messages in cyberspace over the past few years, falsely stating that there were no reports of a UFO being present at the time of the missile malfunctions.

You keep saying that you have a 2010 interview with Figel, but you have refused to post this interview anywhere. Once again, you are lying to no purpose, a charge that Figel has also confirmed, just as he has repeatedly affirmed that there was no UFO reported. Had there actually been a UFO reported, the UFO officer at Malmstrom AFB would have been required as a result of active regulations to conduct an investigation. This was not done, exactly as Figel and my father have repeatedly claimed. The UFO officer has claimed as well that there was no UFO investigation, because there was no UFO reported. Once again, charges of dereliction of duty would have been incurred had a UFO actually been reported, as would charges of failure to obey a lawful order.

In addition, Figel has completely and honestly insisted that my father's claims regarding the complete absence of any actual UFO or UFO report is accurate. Your failure to publically examine or explain his protests regarding your claims is more proof of both your dishonesty and your poor analysis. Figel has also never refuted anything at all that I have made public. In fact, he has repeatedly insisted that you personally have distorted his testimony, taken statements out of context, and blatantly lied to establish a UFO presence that simply never occurred. Your failure to mention this detail is more proof of both your dishonesty and your poor analysis.

Links to excerpts from my 2008 conversation with Figel appeared in my article, “The Echo/Oscar Witch Hunt”, posted at The UFO Chronicles in September 2010. However, the full-length tape of that interview has never been publicly accessible—until now. A link to it has been inserted below, as well as links to the conversations I had with the retired colonel in 2009 and 2010.

And once again, you have provided nothing useful -- certainly not a refutation of his actual testimony that I have released. His insistence regarding your purposeful distortion of his testimony, the fact that you have taken statements out of context, as well as your blatant lies asserted to establish a UFO presence where no such presence has ever existed makes it difficult to believe anything that you have said or published. Your repeated and oft proven lies insist, at least to me, that you have nothing to say on this subject that can be trusted. Audio tapes can be edited, rearranged, and manufactured, so I see no reason to believe anything that you have produced, including new transcripts that you have been promising to release for over a year now. This is precisely why I asked Figel to provide written statements -- they have been confirmed and have not been edited, which I seriously doubt can be said about the audio tapes you have provided. These are not charges that I have made; they are charges established by Walt Figel. This proves quite sufficiently that you are a manipulative liar who has failed to prevent his little UFO hoax from being made public. In the final analysis, Figel has proven that nothing you say can be trusted by anybody.

As previously noted, Carlson has completely misrepresented, in the most brazen manner, Col. Figel’s clearly confirmatory statements about a UFO being sighted at Echo Flight—as one will hear upon listening to my taped conversations with Figel, in which he repeatedly refutes Carlson’s falsehoods.

Ditto the above. You've produced nothing of worth, a charge that Figel wholeheartedly supports. You keep forgetting for some awkward reason, that the charges of your false testimonials do not come from me, but from Walt Figel. I've misrepresented nothing, while your own witnesses insist that you aere a liar and a fraud who has accomplished a UFO hoax for his own benefit.

As one will hear, Col. Figel also says that former Minuteman missile launch officer Bob Salas’ published statements about Echo are accurate, with two minor exceptions, and calls James Carlson’s version of the facts “misguided” and “off-base”. He also says that Carlson “has an ax to grind”.

I do have an ax to grind, I assure you. It is a result of Salas' lies and your own, lies that have been very easily established, and easily refuted. My ax gets sharper every time you make a statement regarding this issue, because your lies are easy to prove, and your ignorance of the case is universal. Salas' statements are not accurate -- they are not even consistent. He has repeatedly lied regarding this matter, as have you, and every time it has been refuted, he has changed it in some way.

On June 3, 2011, Robert Hastings writes:

Regarding http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/tag/walter-figel/, I have inserted below my responses (RH) to Walter Figel’s comments (WF) about the missile shutdown incident at Malmstrom AFB’s Echo Flight on March 16, 1967:

[Steve Broadbent writes:]

Walt [Figel] finally responded at length to both James [Carlson] and I. He listed the major points that he believes are at issue here. Figel clearly states as of Sept 24th, 2010 – that not only does he believe UFOs were not involved at Echo Flight, but Figel also reveals some shocking insight into some of Salas’ other claims regarding issues beyond the Echo Flight case. Here is what Figel had to say on the matter:

WF: James,

First – your dad has not lied about anything nor do believe that he is even capable of lying about anything at all. He was, is, and always will be an honorable man. You should remember that always – I will.

RH: Figel is expressing an opinion here, not a statement of fact. Given that he has previously affirmed to me, on audio tape, that he received multiple eyewitness reports of a UFO-presence during the Echo Flight incident, and further affirmed that he had subsequently discussed those reports with Eric Carlson at length, the elder Carlson has either developed memory problems over time or he is indeed lying about not remembering the reports of a UFO presence. Unless Figel can read minds, he simply can not say whether Carlson has lied about not remembering all of that or, on the other hand, actually does not.

These are more lies easily refuted by Figel's own written statements. Read the above. Figel has repeatedly confirmed that the events described by my father are accurate, while those that you have produced are not , purely as a result of your own duplicity. His written statements make that very clear. It is your desperation and pointless manipulation of this case that has motivated your attempts to erase this matter. I assure you, it cannot be done. You are a worthless, dishonest man who is willing to say anything, no matter how pathetic and ridiculous, to establish your interpretation of Figel's testimony, an interpretation that Figel himself has repeatedly confirmed as inaccurate and baseless.

Moreover, if Carlson’s and Figel’s commander told them not to talk about the incident, including the reports of the UFO—as Figel explicitly stated during one my taped conversations with him—then one might conceivably argue that lying to outsiders, who have no need-to-know from the Air Force’s perspective, is in fact the “honorable” course of action.

Your inability to understand these issues is the only salient point here, and one I find completely ineffectual. When my father and Walt Figel were instructed not to discuss this case, it was classified. It was automatically declassified in 1979, at which point any instructions not to discuss the matter became void. It's pathetic that people like you attempt to use classified materials protocol to invent a case while knowing little to nothing about the subject. Suffice to say, the matter is no longer classified, and any "silence" is no longer necessary. And yet, both my father and Figel nonetheless insist that your case and Salas' are built of lies upon lies. Perhaps you should learn a bit more about the subject before subjecting the rest of the world to your ignorance and your failures. "Need-to-know" applies to all classified materials, but it does not apply at all to declassified matters. Moreover, there is never a valid reason to lie about any classified matters; the appropriate response is merely a refusal to discuss the matter, which you would know had you conducted any real research regarding this issue. It's very easy to describe you as a "fraud" when your ignorance forces you so often to act like one.

Fortunately, almost all of the 120-plus military veterans I have interviewed over the years are of the opinion that, in a democratic society, the reality of UFO activity at nuclear weapons sites is a topic worthy of open, candid discussion and, therefore, the public’s right-to-know trumps military secrecy. In my view, these persons are honorable men as well and, importantly, history will validate their revelations.

History never validates liars -- at best history merely ignores them. In any case, I don't give a damn about your 120 witnesses unless they all have something to say about Echo Flight. They do not. In addition, if you really wanted a candid discussion of these matters, you would discuss them. Instead you have frequently deleted my arguments when they were made, you have refused to answer the numerous questions put to you in regard to this case, you have refused to explain the many fallacies in the case you've tried to establish, and you have told many, many lies about both me and my father in order to discredit the claims I've made, thereby alowing you to avoid the discussion you frequently claim to desire. Falling back on claims regarding a "democratic society", "open, candid discussion", "the public’s right-to-know", and the supposed honor characteristic of anybody associated with you and your claims is a little overly disengenuous in light of the numerous personal insults you have repeatedly presented in both public and private to no cause beyond the prevention of the open discussion you just as frequently ramble about in your permanent state of hypocrisy. You are not a figure concerned with natural rights or a spokesman in support of national freedoms, nor are you a good judge of the honor a man receives in the course of a lifetime. Your own acts reveal the lies in what you have expressed above. You are simply a fraud, a UFO hoaxer, and a buffoon who knows how to use the English language in a sad bid for more attention. Let us be honest here -- nothing about you deserves respect, trust, or the reputation of an honorable man. You are merely a liar and a charlatan who relies on insult and pretension above argument. The internet is rife with proof of your many character flaws and your willingness to invent what you cannot otherwise establish honestly. Personally, I find it shamefully excessive that you would even mention the word "honor". You obviously have no knowledge of the subject.

WF: Second – Bob Salas was never associated with any shutdown of any missiles at any time in any flight and you can take that to the bank. Just think about this for a split second. He is a person wrapped up in UFOs to the Nth degree. Yet he could not remember he was not at Echo. Then he thought he was at November – wrong again. Then he thought he was at Oscar – wrong again.

RH: Col. Fredrick Meiwald, Bob Salas’ former missile commander at Malmstrom AFB, stated as early as 1996—during an audio-taped conversation with Salas—that he and Salas were indeed involved in a missile shutdown incident, at Oscar Flight, that was nearly identical to the Echo Flight UFO event.

You should discuss the matter with Col. Frederick Meiwald instead of simply taking Salas' word for it. Meiwald doesn't even believe in UFOs, a fact that he made very clear to me when I first broached the matter with him. More importantly, he doesn't confirm anything that Salas has claimed regarding a UFO and missile failures. The only UFO event that he has ever discussed was one that could not be associated with missile failures, and was the result of a common security alert check, exactly as his letter to Salas asserts. In addition, the one case he has attested to was reported to him second-hand, absolute proof that there were no missile failures involved, because had there been such failures, he would have been talking to and instructing the security crew directly, exactly as my father and Figel did at Echo Flight. The fact that the security team was taking their orders from the security chain of command is proof that missile failures were not associated. The fact that this incident only involved a single two-man security crew without maintenance representation also proves that this event did not involve missile failures, since the maintenance technicians were the only personnel allowed into the silo complex to check the status of the missile.

In addition, Meiwald insisted to Salas that he could not confirm the UFO event Salas described. He was, in fact, very clear about this, something you would know if you had bothered to examine any actual evidence. More importantly, Salas apparently believed him. After all, Meiwald insisted at the time that he and Salas were at Oscar Flight, but it would be another three years before Salas would agree that this was indeed the case. During this three year period, Salas was insisting that the incident occurred at November Flight. It appears that your examination and analysis of Salas' witnesses are just as poorly conducted as those of your own. Perhaps you two should put together a vaudeville act; of course, some would argue that you already have. In any case, you should consider talking to Meiwald someday. He personally agrees that he cannot confirm the event Salas describes. In fact, he insists, as does my father, that he was never notified by anybody at Echo Flight regarding the loss of any missiles due to UFO interference, as Salas claimed for nearly a decade. Salas has told so many easily provable lies of this caliber, that it's a miracle anybody at all is willing to trust him.

Unfortunately, Walt Figel, who was not present at Oscar at the time, prefers to believe his own uninformed opinion on the subject, based on equally-uninformed statements by his friend Dick Evans, who supposedly would have known about the Oscar event if it really happened.

You should do a little additional research. I've talked to dozens of missileers who were present at the time, and not one of them will confirm that this supposed Oscar Flight event occurred -- not one. In fact, Salas hasn't provided any witnesses at all to confirm this incident, unless you count Meiwald. I do not, because Meiwald refuses to confirm the event. You would know this had you bothered to talk to him. You've been unable to establish that anything happened at Oscar Flight during this entire period. If I didn't know in advance that you and Salas had invented this incident entirely, I would at the very least assume that both of you have been rather careless in regard to this matter. You have nothing -- no documents or witnesses to confirm an Oscar Flight event. On the other hand, I can produce plenty of witnesses who will agree that no such event ever took place. There are, in addition, confirmed reports that there were no equipment failures at all on March 24-25, 1967 as you and Salas insist. It's curious that you would assert an entire flight of missiles failed on a date during which zero equipment failures was logged and confirmed way back in 1967, don't you think?

It's a point of fact that there are literally dozens of documents discussing in great detail the missile failures at Echo Flight on March 16. 1967, but you and Salas have failed to present even a single document or useful testimony to establish anything at all occurring at Oscar Flight. Your failure to mention this detail is more proof of both your dishonesty and your poor analysis.

In reality, these extremely sensitive incidents are need-to-know, Walt and Dick. Neither of you had any need to know about the Oscar Flight UFO incident, regardless of your positions in the Air Force, during or after the event. (BTW, both Salas and Meiwald have said that they were never briefed on the Echo incident. And yet, according to Figel, the first of his ten missiles at Echo had failed moments before his conversation with the guard on-site, who reported observing a “large, round object” hovering over it. Gee, I wonder why something like that wouldn’t be shared with other missile crews who were not present at the time, Walt. To maintain secrecy, maybe? What a novel idea).

Why do you keep going to classified materials protocol? Every time you discuss it, you prove your ignorance of the subject. As I've said, "need-to-know" applies to all classified materials, not just the ones you want to establish it for. More importantly, Dick Evans was in the same squadron as Salas and Meiwald, so he very definitely possessed the "need-to-know". In addition, if the Oscar Flight event was similar in character as the one at Echo Flight, as you and Salas have repeatedly insisted, both my father and Figel would have also possessed the "need-to-know". You should know by now that you can't use facets of a topic you are completely ignorant of in order to establish an imaginary UFO as actual to people who are for more knowledgeable than you are about everything. The point is academic, however. You have failed to establish that such an event did indeed occur. You can't hide that behind "need-to-know," especially when it is so obvious that you know nothing about the subject, nor what standards are necessary to establish "need-to-know" in the first place. Your complete and utter ignorance of the topic is palpable. I assure you, you aren't fooling anybody here, because you don't possess enough knowledge to do so. As long as you continue to treat facts as something inconsistent that you can change at will, you will always lose this pathetic game of "Guess!" that you're trying to play.

Your apparent belief that "both Salas and Meiwald have said that they were never briefed on the Echo incident" is adorable, but incorrect. Meiwald has said that he was aware of it, which you would know had you bothered to examine the evidence. As for Salas, he insisted for many years that he was notified about Echo Flight on the very day the incident occurred, so perhaps you should examine your own case a bit more. It wasn't until he changed the date of the Oscar Flight event that he claimed he was not briefed on Echo Flight. For ten years he was claiming differently. He even claimed at one point that my father was the one who originally told him about the event. The problem with both you and Salas is that you are both very poor liars. But the fact that you are both liars is very easily established, and I'm quite satisfied with that.

As for "Gee, I wonder why something like that wouldn’t be shared with other missile crews who were not present at the time, Walt. To maintain secrecy, maybe? What a novel idea", you once again show how unfamiliar you actually are with the evidence. All of the missile squadrons and crews were well aware of the missile failures at Echo Flight, because the incident was indeed "shared with other missile crews who were not present at the time". This has been well-established for decades. As for the UFO, once again you seem to have forgotten that both Figel and my father insist no UFO was ever reported, investigated, or associated with the Echo Flight failures, and you and Salas have both failed to establish its presence otherwise. So let me ask you: if secrecy regarding a UFO at Echo Flight was maintained so strictly, and Salas was indeed never briefed on the matter as you assert, than why exactly would he ever insist that a UFO was involved? One would expect him to retract that kind of a claim immediately upon realizing that he was not present at Echo Flight as he originally claimed. Someone had to have told him. If Meiwald had never been briefed either, why would Salas insist such an event had occurred? His very first article insists that he found out about Echo Flight from Meiwald. He made this same claim for many years, as anybody familiar with the case can tell you. Of course, that was when he was still claiming that the Oscar Flight event of March 24-25 had actually occurred at November Flight on March 16. Which version of his story should we accept as factual? They can't all be correct, unless you're a lunatic. Perhaps you should do a little genuine research regarding this case. Thus far, you've failed miserably to even make a valid point.

You should study up a bit on the maintenance of secrecy, because you're completely out of touch with the concept. This, however, is exactly what one would expect of a fraud like you: petty and uncorrected ignorance.

In any case, during my own May 6, 2011 audio-taped conversation with Col. Meiwald—after I told him that James Carlson has repeatedly called Salas a liar and a fraud—Meiwald stated, “All I can say is something happened [at Oscar] and, to the best of my knowledge, Bob Salas has stated what he believes [to be] true and I’ve supported the majority of what he has said. I have read his book and [although] I can not, you know, support what other folks are saying, I know what happened at Oscar. I know that Bob has relayed what happened at Oscar very accurately.”

Meiwald then elaborated and said that he couldn’t support everything Salas has said about the incident because he had been resting/sleeping when the first missile or two dropped offline—which occurred moments after Salas received a report from the Oscar Flight Security Controller about a UFO hovering over the Launch Control Facility’s front gate.

Although Salas had quickly told Meiwald about that telephone conversation, Meiwald says that he can’t remember it. Just as Eric Carlson says he can’t remember Walt Figel telling him something very similar, shortly after he had been awakened by Figel and took his position at the commander’s consol in the Echo Launch Control Capsule. When I first spoke with Figel, in October 2008, he was clearly incredulous about the elder Carlson’s alleged inability to recall those events, as one will hear in Figel’s tone of voice, when listening to the taped conversation at:

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2011/06 ... el_03.html.

In other words, he refuses to confirm a UFO at the same scene as a missile failures account at Oscar Flight, exactly as he told Salas, and exactly as I've written and established elsewhere. Thanks for clearing that up for us, Robert, but you're a little late to the party. Do you believe the world is so thickheaded that it is unable to determine what you have so plainly elaboarated herein?

More to the point, this situation you've described has nothing in common with your sad attempts to label it as similar to my father's account and Figel's account. My father has repeatedly claimed that his memories of Echo Flight are very strong, and that he has no memories of a UFO because there was no UFO. Your attempts to twist his assertions into something they clearly are not is typical of you, Robert. You are a dishonest man. But if you read the written statment s of both Figel and my father, you will see your errors. The fact that you believe you can erase the doubts of everyone who has ever discussed this matter with both the commander and the deputy commander of Echo Flight by appealing to them to trust your interpretation of their testimony while both men are alive and willing to discuss this matter with anybody honest enough to actually listen to what they have to say is proof only of your own stupidity and your failure to conduct an honest interview. My father's memories are fine, and he insists that there was no UFO involvement at Echo Flight. Walt Figel's memories are equally clear, and he has stated in no uncertain terms that my father's claims are accurate, while your attempts to portray them as secretive and impressionable lies is a mark against your character, not his. Figel has repeatedly asserted that your claims are groundless, that you have misinterpreted what he was so willing to tell you, and that you are little more than a desperate liar on a course to his own infamy in a wasted attempt to preserve some measure of credibility to a life that has earned you only the distrust and contempt of more honest men than yourself. This is a pathetic attempt by you to invent a metaphor, and nothing else.

Meiwald refuses to confirm the presence of a UFO at the missile failures incident he has been willing to discuss, which is exactly what your interviews have proven. You say as much above. He does not remember the UFO incident Salas describes, because Salas created it from nothing. My father , on the other hand, insists that a UFO was never involved at Echo Flight, and Walt Figel has repeatedly confirmed this. The similarities you have attempted to insert into their very plain statements do not exist. They are chimeras of your own invention, as both men have clearly set down in their own statements. Your inability to recognize this supports your own delusions, and nothing more.

It should also be pointed out that Meiwald has never stated that Oscar Flight was an example of a full flight failure like Echo Flight. The highest number of missiles failing that he has ever confirmed was 3-4 missiles. Personally, I believe that number is excessive, but I won't argue the point, as he has never associated this event with a UFO as Salas has in the ridiculous tale he has told. Your attempts to mislead every person reading the pathetic folk tales the two of you have composed is simply more evidence of the many character flaws you both possess. It was Salas who continuously increased the number of missiles failing, not Meiwald. After a year-and-a-half, the number went to 5-6, and then a couple years later 7-8. It now rests at 10, a number that Meiwald has never confirmed with anybody. You should allow Meiwald to speak for himself on occasion. You would look much less the liar if you had.

Meiwald, like my father before him, has refused to confirm the presence of a UFO in connection with missile failures, because there was no UFO present. Your inability or refusal to mention this is a reflection only of your base qualities, not his, not Figel's and certainly not my father's.

When I asked Meiwald to confirm, as he did on tape in 1996, that Salas had dispatched a two-man Security Alert Team to one of the Oscar missile sites, where an alarm had been triggered, and that the team had seen a UFO hovering over it, Meiwald readily complied. When I asked whether he could recall the description of the UFO, as reported to him by the frightened SAT team, Meiwald replied, “All I remember is a bright object; a bright, flying object at low-level. Beyond that, uh, I can’t say.”

Any analysis of the letter you and Salas have mistakenly published proves this event did not occur as you describe. The fact that all information came to him second-hand proves quite handily that Salas played no role in dispatching them. Your reliance on recorded accounts that are easily manipulated and edited with pertinence determined by you alone is proof of your dishonesty. This becomes apparent immediately upon examination of the documents he has already provided. The fact that this single case you keep harping about was merely a two-man security crew is all the proof necessary to assume that this event did not involve missile failures. Had missile failures been a part of this story, there would have been maintenance technicians included, since security was unable to determine anything at all regarding the status of those missiles. They supplied security escort duties alone. Your refusal to discuss any details at all regarding any of the testimony you've collected once again reflects only on you. Do you actually believe that a two-men security crew alone had the ability to do anything in relation to the missiles beyond answering the call of a common alert? If so, you are not only a liar, you are a fool as well. Meiwald has been clear since 1996. He remembers no missile failures event that could be associated with UFOs, and the only UFO event that he recalls was in relation to a common security alert that he described in the letter he wrote to Salas, a letter in which he apologized for being unable to help Salas with the alleged UFO-missile failures incident he was attempting to establish at the time, a letter in which the only actual information he could regretably provide was the fact that they had served at Oscar Flight, a proposition that Salas refused to accept, maintaining for another three years that the event he "recalled" happened at November Flight. The pathetic evidence you two have contrived to create an incident from nothing at all has been catalogued in some detail as result of your own actions. It is your dishonesty and your repeated lies that have brought you to the position you are now attempting to defend. Unfortunately for your claims, what has been so clearly rendered by the two of you cannot be undone by your wishful thinking or your attempts to pretend none of it actually occurred. You have written out your own lies in -plain English, and your attempts to hide this within the recorded and edited audio tapes provided by otherwise honest men have brought you to this repast. Your only remaining task is to reap it, or go to Hell. Since both choices are equally poor options for the silly little UFO nonsense story you've attempted to create, you're welcome to choose either one as far as I'm concerned. Regardless, the story ends the same way.

In short, while Walt Figel may confidently claim that Salas “was never associated with any shutdown” of missiles at Malmstrom, Salas’ former missile commander, Col. Fred Meiwald, says otherwise. When I asked Meiwald whether he and Salas had been debriefed by an OSI agent back at Malmstrom and asked to sign national security non-disclosure statements, as Salas has long stated, Meiwald replied, “That did take place.”

According to you perhaps. It matters little, however. Both my father and Walt Figel have long insisted that this did not occur at Echo Flight, so this particular happenstance is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Suffice to say that classified materials are supposed to be protected. Your inability to first provide accurate details regarding the presence of a UFO is the only point of note here. As for Meiwald's assertions in comparison to Figel's, you seem to be dismissing Figel's testimony that Echo Flight was not a UFO-related incident, because you can still rely on Meiwald's testimony. Since Meiwald has repeatedly failed to associate a missile failures incident with UFOs, this is a mistake. Since Meiwald has repeatedly failed to associate anything at all with Echo Flight, you have erred again. The fact that a missile failures incident was highly classifed is not evidence that a UFO caused those failures. Your association of one with the other is consistent to the poor quality of analysis you have always provided. Your inability to recognize relevant testimony is sadly universal to your entire catalogue of testimony. In any case, you and Salas are unable to prove the presence of a UFO event at Oscar Flight; your one witness, Meiwald, has repeatedly affirmed that he recalls no such event, and the one UFO event he does recall had nothing at all to do with missile failures, a fact that he apologized for, regretting that he could not assist Salas further. His written testimony is very plain, and proof of this lies in the fact that while Salas nonetheless told the world that Meiwald had confirmed this ridiculous tale, in reality he refused to use any of the information that Meiwald so kindly provided him, waiting three full years before finally allowing that Meiwald was correct when he insisted they had only served together at Oscar Flight. Three years is a provision you can scarce afford in light of your many past failures. All you've offered in the place of numerous documents, including the complete written accounts of these events by Frederick Meiwald, Walt Figel, and my father are a handful of doubtful recordings without any provenance whatsoever. Your history of lies and slander raises doubt, not confidence. Perhaps you should set new goals for yourself; maybe you should be a stand-up comic. Your faithless inability to render consistent and truthful accounts of a pair of events already set in history would likely not represent such a handicap for a comedian.

My new article about the Oscar Flight UFO incident—containing an audio link to my recent, taped conversation with Col. Meiwald—will be posted at The UFO Chronicles soon.

You've made similar claims in the past and failed to deliver anything more than a handful of edited recordings from 1996, none of which represented the "new" interview recordings with Walt Figel that you had claimed would prove I had never even discussed this matter with him. Your own lies are your ruin. The truth of the case has already been made in the unchanged testimony the participants have continuously asserted for decades now. Your ridiculous thoughts, inconsistent accounts, and poorly understood interpretations have been meaningless, and I shall continue to ascertain those qualities everywhere you decide to spread the cancer of your numerous lies and ill-conceived strategic nuances. Your pointless reliance on what you are capable of providing is meaningless, as is your insistence that everyone is lying except the one witness you decide to champion on that particular date. You are a worthless old fool who has made yourself impossible to believe.
Last edited by James Carlson on Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:20 am

WF: Third – There is no record about anything happening at November or Oscar except in people’s minds that are flawed beyond imagination. Salas has created events out of the thin air and can’t get the facts straight even then. My best friend to this day was the flight commander of the 10th SMS at the time. He and I have discussed this silly assertion in the past couple of years – he thinks it is all made-up nonsense for sure. I put both Salas and Hastings in touch with him and he has told them both that an incident at November or Oscar never happened. In addition he was subsequently stationed at Norton AFB where the engineers tested the possible problems. No little green men were responsible.

RH: Figel never put me in touch with his “best friend” Dick Evans. Moreover, Col. Meiwald told me that he had not spoken with Walt Figel for decades. If Figel would like to call Meiwald and discuss the events at Oscar Flight, as reported by both Salas and Meiwald, I’m certain that Meiwald would be willing to confirm what I have written here. (I do note, however, that Meiwald is reluctant to become involved in the ongoing controversy surrounding the events at Malmstrom in March 1967, so he may not respond to inquiries other than Figel’s.)

Wow, who should I believe? Walt Figel, who told me immediately and to the point as soon as I called him that not only were you and Salas both lying, but that you had distorted his actual claims in an unethical attempt to pin a UFO to an event that had never involved a UFO, or you, whom I can prove completely has lied about this case on numerous occasions, has slandered both me and my father countless times on the internet for anybody to examine, has lied in private emails to anybody who bothered to give my father's story the merit it deserves simply to discredit such claims, and has repeatedly made public claims that I have never even once contacted Walt Figel, whilst knowing damn well I had, having received from him the same statement he originally sent to me? You know, Robert, I don't think I'm going to believe a word you have to say, because your lies are so numerous and easily accessed that you simply cannot be trusted as a reasonable source of anything. In fact, the more people I expose to those lies of yours, the more websites I present that proof to, the less credibility you have. This will continue, because I see no reason to quit a strategy that is working so well for me. You are a liar and you are a fraud, and I have repeatedly proven that by simply pointing out your own work, re-examining the case you've tried to establish, and reinterviewing the witnesses you've claimed as confirmation. You're perfectly free to write as many articles as you like, but all of them say the same thing, all of which is very contrary to the statements released by my father and Figel. The fact that you continuously try to rely on partial testimony while attempting to discredit the rest of it shows exactly how desperate you are, and how worthless the case you have tried to make is. Eventually, everything you have to say or have already said will be doubted by most people as the wasted ramblings of a petty and manipulative old man who was incapable of establishing a single worthwhile point as a result of his own character flaws.

Whether or not Figel has discussed this matter with Meiwald has never been argued. Only what Meiwald has stated regardng the subject has meaning, and he refuses to put a UFO at Oscar Flight during a missile failures event. This is entirely supported by your own foolish assertions. As for your observation that "Meiwald is reluctant to become involved in the ongoing controversy surrounding the events at Malmstrom in March 1967, so he may not respond to inquiries other than Figel’s", it is pointless. His past responses to both Salas and me are on the record and nothing else is necessary. Your own faithless assertions aside, being proof merely of your own flaws, nothing else is needed. Meiwald has been very helpful and very clear. It is your ignorance alone that prevents you from understanding what he has clearly said.

Robert, it's been established by your own witnesses that you have completely and utterly distorted and edited the interviews you have used to present your claims. I don't believe what you've claimed, and many others feel the same way. You've invested too much into this little game of yours, and you will now go to any lengths whatsoever to drum up support. Your repeated lies, however, are most telling, and cannot be denied. They are obvious, they are abundant, and they indicate your own inability to otherwise make a good case. I don't believe you and I don't trust you, because your lies are so numerous, and I intend to tell everybody I possibly can the story of your worthlessness. It's cruel, I admit, because you're not a very smart man, you lack the ability to investigate any kind of disputed case whatsoever, and you rely on lies before and above any other strategy. That cruelty, as I see it, is well-deserved in this case, because you have purposely targeted men who served their nation well, and do not deserve the treatment of them that you have carried out for no other reason than your own self-serving ambition to do something, anything, that will grant you a measure of fame that is otherwise undeserved. You will certainly get the fame you desire, but I assure you, it won't be what you expect. The only thing I've ever had to do to unmask and make known your duplicity and dishonesty is to point out the things you've said and done, and contrast them to the numerous facts I've uncovered. You're an unethical fool, Robert, and that is exactly what people will say about you in the long run. And I will be glad to have had a small part in that, even though you've made it so easy for me.

WF: Fourth – I have always maintained that I do not nor have I ever believed that UFOs exist in any form at any place at any time. I have never seen one or reported that I have seen one. I have always maintained that they had nothing to do with the shutdown of Echo flight in Montana.

RH: So what? Figel’s skepticism toward the report he received from the guard who was on-site should not be confused with the report itself, as Figel admitted to me—twice—during my taped conversations with him. The eyewitness report, later corroborated by other security personnel sent to the site by Figel, is the key point. In other words, Figel’s inability to believe what he was being told by the guard posted at the stricken missile silo—who, according to Figel, was an apparent eyewitness to the presence of a “large, round object” hovering over the site—is irrelevant. After all, Bob Salas was skeptical, just as Figel was, when he was told about the UFO hovering over the Oscar Launch Control Facility.

So what? That's how you respond? You've been publishing and telling the world for years the exact opposite of this claim. If you believe that "So what?" is all that's necessarily warranted by this admission of Figel's, proof of your numerous lies is thereby admitted. The internet is full of your personal claims that Figel has supported in full the UFO assertions you've repeatedly made, and this statement of Figel's that he has not, as you've strongly asserted for so long, proves your culpability in a hoax foisted upon the very people willing to offer you their trust and their belief. So what? Good God, Robert, thank you for that. Once again, you made it much easier to press the case I've established on the basis of documented proof, personal accountability, and simple honesty in both the collection of data and its examination. Your primal idiocy is what makes this task of mine so damn enjoyable!

How many times in the past five years have you trumpeted the worth of Walt Figel's supposed confirmation of a UFO at Echo Flight? Dozens, maybe, on UFOCHRONICLES? How about on AboveTopSecret? Two dozen, maybe three? What about Paracast? A dozen? UFO Mag Blog? UFO Casebook? Is the necessity for your belief in your own repeatedly disproven, baseless, and error-filled claims so tenuous that Walt Figel's insistence that you have been lying throughout all of these years every single time you claimed that Walt Figel said a UFO was the cause of the Echo Flight Incident, that Walt Figel said CAPT Eric D. Carlson was mistaken or lying when he said no UFO was ever reported or otherwise involved in this incident at Echo Flight, that Walt Figel was a courageous and ethical man for asserting the presence of a UFO at Malmstrom AFB on March 16, 1967 when nobody else in the entire friggin' universe was willing to do so arouses from you only the lame, pathetic, and hypocrisy-filled comment, "So what?" I'm not one bit surprised. You are a reprehensible person, Robert, and I sincerely believe that you should never be trusted to tell the truth. If any honest men ever went to you to discuss those events in their lives that bothered them, or events that they could not otherwise explain, I am heartily sorry that they believed they could rely on you, because your comment "So what?" has forever saddled them with your hypocrisy, and your worthlessmess, and your inability to do anything even resembling an honest analysis of their claims. And it's unfortunate that such men, if they exist, must now contend with their misguided association with you, a supremely dishonest and selfish human being lacking even the will to do something good and decent.

As for your misguided belief that Figel's skepticism is not relevant, you should look closer. Without a report being made, there is no investigation. Without an investigation, there is no evidence of a UFO. Without evidence of a UFO, you have nothing. You understood this at one time, because you put so much effort into publicizing the point of Figel's acceptance that this represents a true UFO report. In other words, simply saying "UFO" does not and never has established the presence of a UFO. There is documented and accounted proof that no investigation occurred and that nobody believed a UFO was actually involved in this incident. Your attempts now to twist the story once again by claiming that a report was made, but nobody believed it, is a pathetic reliance on absolutely nothing. In addition, the fact that Salas was "skeptical" truly is irrelevant. Salas is a liar, proof of which is easily ascertained by simply examining the many different versions of the story that he has told to date.

If you are now claiming that every time someone makes a UFO joke, we should actually consider this a valid UFO report, you should simply say so. Need I remind you, again, that on the night before this incident a comedy program entitled Green Acres was shown on television that made the very same joke about a UFO being observed as that made at Echo Flight around 0930 the morning of March 16, 1967? Is it easier for you to believe that mention of a UFO that was never actually reported to the UFO officer as required by active regulations, nor investigated by the command as required by active regulations, nor mentioned again in any documentation whatsoever anywhere on the entire command as required by active regulations was actually a real UFO, and not merely a low ranking maintenance tech's poor repeat of a joke he had heard the night before on television? Is it more likely that a UFO no one bothered to report during the 40-45 minutes after the missiles began failing that it took the maintenance technician to open up the silo in order to determine the status of the missile at hand as ordered, including the security team who had no additional responsibilities other than ensuring the safety of the maintenance techs and the silo complex? Is it more believable for you that this UFO that you have repeatedly insisted was hovering over the silo when the missiles started going offline was not mentioned even once by the security crew who were awake at the time, but only by the maintenance technician who was alseep when the missiles started to fail, and only then after taking so much time opening up the silo complex to complete his assigned task? This is evidence that Figel told you and is detailed in your own transcripts -- evidence that you ignored entirely in your quest to invent a UFO incident that never occurred even in the dreams of the actual participants. I hardly think you're in any position to be considered a valid authority regarding whether or not an actual UFO was reported, especially in light of the fact that every single witness to these events that has come forward insists that you are wrong. In any case, the numerous and well-proven lies that you have already told in regard to this very same issue hardly qualifies you as a source to be trusted, regardless of what your personal beliefs may actually be. You simply cannot be trusted to tell the truth about anything. The fact that you would invent a series of book titles and medical reports in order to publically present as evidence supporting your claims that my credibility is an actual issue in this case is the only evidence that most people ever required of me to suggest that this last point is one of fact. Your lies are a matter of public record, Robert, so your attempts to establish any such reputation for honesty and integrity is a wasted effort. You have already revealed yourself on numerous occassions, just as you have repeatedly failed to make my credibility an issue, or to inspire reason for others to believe a single word that you have reported. You're an unethical hack. You should, in my opinion, learn to accept it, or correct it. Attempting to deny it or to ignore it is pretty much a waste of what little time you have been allotted on this Earth.

Moreover, another of the USAF veterans participating in my September 27, 2010 UFOs and Nukes press conference, retired Captain Bruce Fenstermacher, who was a launch officer at F.E. Warren AFB in 1976, said that he had been skeptical when told of a cigar-shaped UFO hovering over his LCF.

And on and on. In short, these launch officers’ understandable incredulity regarding the bizarre events reported to them is not the point, only the events themselves.

Once more, this is all irrelevant. Nobody cares whether they were originally skeptical or not. You're wasting the argument, because its never been attacked. Why would anybody care what they believed at one time? The only importance lies in what they can now prove. As for me, I personally don't give a damn. I've never cared what claims others have made about UFOs anywhere outside of Malsmtrom AFB in March 1967. Why would I? It's a silly, meaningless topic, as far as I'm concerned. My only interest is your treatment of me and my family, and for that you have deserved every ounce of scorn and contempt that I or anybody else on this planet can possibly muster. You're a simple-minded and pathetic offense against honesty who has reperatedly slandered and attacked me and my family without cause, all because you want to promote yourself above the truth. You deserve completely everything that I've ever done to you and your arguments, and everything that I intend to do in the future. You've brought all of this upon yourself as a result of your public attempts to bring shame to better men than you could ever possibly represent. I'm not a skeptic, Robert. I believe in a lot of things that cannot be proven, or sometimes even well-supported. But I also detest liars, especially those who would use such unworthy tools to try and denigrate and shame the members of my family. We are an honest and trustworthy clan, and we are proud of the service we have given to this nation. The fact that you would attack that with lies and slander in order to promote yourself and advance other pathetic goals having nothing at all to do with love of family or nation is more than sufficient to earn my utter contempt. More importantly, the fact that your arguments are based on easily proven lies and the distorted statements of others make the whole process of discrediting your silly and pointless objectives amusing as well as necessary.

In numerous cases, at various bases, multiple missile personnel and security guards have reported UFO incursions at ICBM sites. In some cases, those incidents are verified in declassified files, for example at Minot AFB in August 1966 and at Malmstrom AFB in November 1975. The testimony of my many ex-USAF sources makes clear the extent to which the Air Force has gone to suppress these incidents, to keep them from public view, and why so few of the documents relating to them ever see the light of day. (After the collapse of the USSR, a number of former Soviet Army officers confirmed the reality of nukes-related UFO incidents in that country during the Cold War era. But that’s another story.)

Irrelevant. I simply don't give a damn, as I've already stated. Your claims are meaningless, and you've made them that way by relying on the basest of tools to promote them, such as the already mentioned lies and slander you've repeatedly relied upon. I don't care what your theories are. I don't believe you, because you haven't earned trust or belief. All you've earned is contempt, although I will say that you did that quite handily. Congratulations.

WF: Fifth – The event at Malmstrom has a hand written log from me that was turned in just like all the other logs that I wrote over several years. I would think that if I wrote something like that in the log, there would be copies, it would have been classified at the beginning and then released along with the classified SAC messages and base reports. Nothing in that urgent SAC message even hints of UFOs at all and I think that it would if the official logs or telephone calls had referenced that fact.

RH: Here Figel is speculating again—incorrectly as it turns out. Actually, many documents confirming a UFO-Nukes Connection have long been kept classified after other less-incriminating UFO sighting files have been released to the public. For example, as ex-U.S. Army document specialist and UFO researcher Jan Aldrich notes, “In a 1952 LOOK article, [then Project Blue Book chief, Captain Edward] Ruppelt mentions a file of 63 cases of UFOs over nuclear installations, but such a file is not in currently-declassified Blue Book files.”

Your opinions regarding a UFO-Nukes connection and what documents support them is also irrelevant. Figel is talking about the Echo Flight Incident alone, and you have produced nothing to cast doubt on his or my father's claims -- all you've done is publish numerous lies and promised to reveal further evidence, which you've failed to do. He is not speculating incorrectly. He is insisting quite clearly that any documented evidence available or evidence that may become available has not and will not support claims that a UFO was involved at Echo Flight. His position as the deputy commander during that incident makes his insistence somewhat more meaningful than the "speculation" you have labeled it. The fact that to date he has been proven correct, while you have been completely unable to support your own claims regarding the March 1967 Malmstrom AFB incidents with anything at all beyond the lies that Figel has made clearly evident is especially telling. In any case, as I've said above, what you believe is irrelevant. You've proven nothing regarding the March 1967 events you've championed, and your numerous lies while attempting to do so are now a matter of public record. Quite simply, I don't believe you. You are a proven liar and a fraud, and I know for a fact that very many people also refuse to believe you for this same reason, people who otherwise are more than willing to believe in UFOs and their importance in the world today. Your primary problem as I see it is that trust is earned, and you have failed to do so as a result of your reliance on untrustworthy means.

As for whatever Ruppelt may or may not have said to someone in 1952, who the Hell cares? Even if you could show the world the file, which you have not done, it still has no bearing whatsoever on events anywhere in the world in 1967. You have a foolish affectation for failing to produce relevant arguments. What "UFO researcher Jan Aldrich" noted second-hand and without the provision of any evidence whatsoever to support the claim is, in the final analysis, little more than rubbish. In addition, it has nothing at all in it to discredit Walt Figel's claims. Once again, you're promoting nothing of worth to elevate your claims of the ridiculous in a pathetic attempt to discredit the insistences of a man you once relied upon wholeheartedly to press a case he never once actually supported. The only person "speculating again —- incorrectly as it turns out" is you, something you tend to do a lot, I've noted.

Indeed, many of my ex-USAF sources have described being debriefed by OSI—just as Salas and Meiwald were—and yet all efforts by myself and other researchers to have the OSI agents’ reports and the witnesses’ signed non-disclosure statements declassified via the FOIA have thus far proved unsuccessful.

And again: irrelevant. Both my father and Figel have repeatedly claimed that they were not debriefed or treated in this manner insofar as Echo Flight is concerned. The fact that you continue to raise issues having nothing at all to do with Echo Flight as some form of evidence to support your Echo Flight claims is simply more evidence that you can't actually produce anything worthy of public consideration.

WF: Sixth – When it happened, neither your dad nor I were “visibly shaken” by the events. It was just another day with a unexpected event in our lives. It was rather underwhelming at the time. No one rushed out to see us, no one made us sign any papers, no one interrogated us for hours on end.

RH: Retired Col. Don Crawford says that Figel and Carlson were indeed “visibly shaken” when he saw them during the missile crew changeover at Echo Flight later that morning. During one of his taped conversations with me, Figel says he won’t dispute the fact that Crawford may have had that impression, even though Figel doesn’t think it was accurate.

Why would he? Crawford is unimportant, and nothing he's said has any bearing on this case. In any case, Figel made the claims here, using the phrase “visibly shaken” in quotation marks in order to assert that Crawford was indeed lying or mistaken. He did this, because I asked him to set the record straight once and for all in a written statement that anybody -- even you and Salas -- could comprehend. The fact that you nonetheless failed to do so proves only that his estimation of your intelligence and ability to comprehend a statement written in the English language was somewhat greater than my own.

But may I point out that Figel also doesn’t think that Bob Salas was ever involved in a missile shutdown incident, despite Col. Fred Meiwald’s confirmatory statements about the reality of the event at Oscar Flight.

And may I point out that you've failed entirely to prove that point, whereas Meiwald's comments tend to support the opposite, as I've repeatedly indicated above. Your own statements make clear that Meiwald's confirmation is tenuous at best. It's a fact of life that he refuses to confirm the UFO story Salas and you have told. Perhaps you should consider trying again? That seems to be your most typical modus operandi thus far, although it does seem to have failed you on a fairly consistent basis as well.

Figel further claims to have “a pretty good memory” even though he told Salas, on tape in 1996, that both of the two-man SAT teams he had dispatched to the field had confirmed seeing the UFO initially reported by the guard already on-site, as did the missile maintenance personnel.

However, by 2008, when I first interviewed Figel, that particular memory had changed to only one of the two SAT teams confirming the presence of the UFO. (One may listen to Figel’s 1996 comments to Salas by utilizing the audio link in my article, “The Echo/Oscar Witch Hunt”, posted at The UFO Chronicles. Figel’s audio-linked 2008 comments to me were just posted at that website moments ago, together with links to the tapes of our lengthy conversations in 2009 and 2010.)

If you think for one moment that I believe Salas' claims in relation to this matter, you are mistaken. He has changed his version of these events far more often than any other single witness. He is a weak-minded man, and every bit of the liar and fraud that you are. Figel himself volunteered all of the relevant information this case displays immediately upon my contacting him, including the revelation that you and Salas had completely distorted his claims, and that he was not very fond of the criminal disrespect you have evinced regarding his testimony. In the entire time I've known him and discussed this matter with him, he has not deviated even once from those original claims. This means that his consistency is far better than your's or Salas'. Frankly, I trust him much more than I trust either of you. He has earned that, while you have not. The fact that both of you tend to rely for the most part on edited audio recordings with little or no provenance has also been noted. As I've said repeatedly in the past, that is why I've requested written statements that could be easily confirmed. All you and Salas have managed to do is gain his ire, his distrust, and the world's contempt. That's not a good record to retire upon, but I don't see any possible way for either of you get past it. In my opinion, however, it couldn't happen to a nicer couple of guys.

Face it, Walt, as we get older some things just don’t work as well as they did when we were younger. As I stated during one of our recorded conversations, I understand and accept that witness testimony relating to these decades-old events is always an approximation of what actually took place.

And that's why you will always fail to produce anything worthy of another person's belief. It's also why your biggest failure in regard to this issue is your habitual intolerance for historical documentation and for consistent testimony. The point remains that the single most consistent witness this case has yet produced is my father. His testimony has never deviated, and his insistence regarding the events of March 16, 1967 has never changed. Neither has his confidence regarding what the truth of the matter actually is. It's a shame that neither you nor Salas can say that.

In that context, I find it interesting that both Bob Salas and Fred Meiwald have said, to me and others, that their memories of the long-ago incidents at Malmstrom are sketchy (as any honest human being would confess). In Salas’ case, he’s candidly admitted to initially misstating certain facts, but has voluntarily corrected himself once the evidence became available to substantiate the actual facts.

The many times he's been forced to change salient details of the story he has told makes it somewhat problematic for him to claim otherwise. If you genuinely see that as a positive aspect of this case, than you are far less intelligent than even I have credited you. Only a fool would insist that it's an indication of truthfulness and honest remembrance when a man is forced to continuously change the many details of a story he has promoted as factual. Your desperation is forcing you to make careless, ridiculous, and insulting arguments. If I were Salas, I believe I would find it necessary to drop you as an ally entirely. You have become your own worst enemy.

Of course, Bob’s candor about his prior mistakes has been used against him by James Carlson and others, who twist the facts and claim that Salas is not credible because his story has changed over time. I suppose that these same debunkers will now call Col. Meiwald a liar, given that he substantiates—on tape—most of Bob’s statements about Oscar Flight.

So the man who keeps changing the facts of a story is credible because of his inconsistency, while those who can prove that the changes came about only after they had been proven false are the liars? Interesting strategy, I admit, but only an idiot would rely on such arguments. I don't "twist the facts"; Salas quite literally changes them whenever they become inconvenient. Your silly wordplay cannot change that fact. As for Col. Meiwald, I've never accused him of lying, and I resent your insistent implications that I have. It proves only that you've failed to familiarize yourself with my arguments, which you should realize by now is perilously dangerous and ultimately foolish tact to take if you want others to believe you. I take it for granted that Col. Meiwald is an honest, honorable man. I have always felt this way, and nothing he has ever said or written has given me any reason whatsoever to deviate from that opinion. You, on the other hand, are not an honest, honorable man. In this article alone you have very plainly lied about Meiwald's testimony numerous times. If you would simply conduct an honest and thorough analysis of the letter that Meiwald wrote Salas in 1996, and how Salas treated the revelations of that letter, you would be forced to agree that Salas was showing repeated signs of dishonest tampering with the facts. The fact that you are incapable of conducting an honest and thorough analysis is irrelevant, because you can always ask someone else to do it for you.

WF: There is no Air Force “cover-up” it just did not happen the way Salas and has portrayed the course of events. I am sorry that you are all caught up in a pissing contest with these people, I really am. They are just not going to let go no matter what you say or do. He has made a 15 year career pandering about the country talking about things he has no knowledge about. I am not at all interested in taking them on – it’s not worth my effort – I have more important things to do with my life. I much rather just stay out of it.

RH: No cover-up at Echo, Walt? In 2008, during our first taped conversation, you told me that, at the conclusion of your post-incident debriefing about the incident, your superiors had told you and Eric Carlson, “Thank you very much. Don’t talk about it.” True, you didn’t have to sign non-disclosure agreements, as Col. Meiwald says he and Salas did, but it’s clear that the incident at Echo, including the reports from the guards—no matter how many of them actually confirmed the UFO—was being officially suppressed by higher-ups.

So I suppose that when military personnel treat classified material as classified, they are conducting a cover-up? You're pathetic, Robert. Your reasoning ability is handicapped by delusions. The military will always have secrets, and this will always be necessary. It isn't evidence of a cover-up. This ridiculous argument that you've presented is evidence of your own stupidity and paranoia, nothing more. You're a dishonest hack who's afraid to tell the truth, but your lies are so unconvincing that you're losing the only audience you've ever had. You should remember that every detail of the Echo Flight incident was declassified well before you ever met or talked to anybody in regard to that incident. Nobody is covering anything up here except you. There are no secrets anymore about Echo Flight, and if there were, do you think for one moment that Salas would not be prosecuted for revealing such secrets? The Department of Defense is very serious about maintaining the status of classified materials, so if Salas had revealed information that was indeed classified, he would have been immediately prosecuted for it. Instead, he was allowed to take his little freak show on tour!

Nothing was suppressed, Robert; it was classified, and when the Department of Defense determined that there was no further need to keep it classified, it was declassified. And nothing you've claimed in regard to Echo Flight has been confirmed by anybody, making you just another noise-maker at the circus, lacking any ability whatsoever to create a convincing scenario. What you've done is tell a series of silly little lies that you have never been able to support or otherwise confirm. And your insistence alone is not sufficient to make claims you cannot establish as fact. It's only evidence of your progressing mental incapacitation.

WF: Hopefully, we can move on. I did read about a briefing on the 27th here in DC. I am here in VA about 10 miles away. Interesting. Hopefully this helps you and confirms to you at least that your dad is a straight shooter and does not lie to anyone.

RH: After it was brought to my attention that Figel would be working in northern Virginia on the day of my September 27, 2010 press conference in nearby Washington D.C., I sent him an email in which I invited him to attend, saying that some of the USAF veterans who would be participating in the event wanted to confront him about his wishy-washy, seemingly contradictory statements regarding Echo.

I don't believe you. I believe Walt Figel, because he's earned trust, while you have repelled or dismissed it. The fact that none of your Echo Flight witnesses are capable of standing up to intelligent questioning or can explain the salient facts of the case you have attempted to soil the world with is proof of their inability to counter anything at all that Figel or my father have to say. You should take a look at the back and forth in this very thread just a few pages back that came about when Mr. D. Arneson paid us a short visit. You'll find that his most common answer to the questions put to him were "I don't know." He did everything possible to try and raise completely irrelevant points of argument in a pathetic attempt to refocus the attentions of this forum elsewhere, anywhere but on him and his ridiculous and easily dismissed story. He failed miserably. Do you really expect anyone to believe that this caliber of witness, a mam whose every statement could be proven as wrong or insignificant, has the ability to confront Walt Figel's assured insistence regarding the dishonesty you and Salas have presented to the world as fact? He is a joke, Robert, and his testimony proves that entirely. The caliber of witness your dishonesty forces you to rely on is not even a match for me, let alone Walt Figel or my father, both of whom can outdistance you, Salas, or any of the sad collection of unfortunates you've collected without effort.

In addition, Figel's testimony is hardly the "wishy-washy, seemingly contradictory statements" you've labeled them as. They are the strong and confident statements of a man who was lied to repeatedly by those he had been assured he could trust. He was merely correcting the record you had so carelessly and insultingly publicized as originating with him. He was deeply offended and pissed off at what you and Salas have done, and rightly so. In promoting yourself and your agenda, you have managed to alienate every actual witness who can confirm their primary role in this event, something that was begun as early as 1997. Why do you think that the March 1997 cable television production of Sightings that first brought this brouhaha to the attention of a national audience was forced to do so with only Salas and Don Crawford, a man who admits that he saw nothing relevant to the case, even though Salas was telling everybody that both Figel and my father had immediately confirmed his nonsense stories? This was at the same time that Salas was telling people that either the commander or the deputy commander of Echo Flight absolutely had to be present with him and interviewed for show! They didn't show up because both had refused completely to lie on camera regarding this joke of an incident that never occurred! Salas even told people in private that my father was perfectly willing to go on television to support those UFO claims, but was unable to do so, and this was during the same period that my father insisted to both a reporter in Great Falls, Montana and to the producer of Sightings that there was no UFO. Do you think it's that easy for you and Salas to refute the numerous lies you've both told when it is all so easily proven and public information available to anyone with the actual will to conduct a serious and honest investigation? All you've done here today is fail repeatedly to make your claims believable to the only people on this planet willing to credit your research as anything more than the pathetic ramblings of a paranoid old man who is more willing to rely on lies and insult and slander than on actual and honestly conducted research or investigation. Your failures have lapped your insistence so often that nothing you can say will regain you any of that credibility you've already lost, and I promise you, that loss of credibility is measurable only with those who once believed your assertions, because skeptics recognized many, many years ago that your claims are baseless and poorly argued. Pat yourself on the back, pal -- you done all of this yourself with very little assistance from me.

If Figel actually showed up and sat in the audience—which I doubt—he never identified himself or spoke up about anything being said by either myself or the veterans, including Bob Salas and Bob Jamison, the former ICBM targeting officer who states that he helped restart some of the missiles at Oscar Flight, which Salas and Col. Meiwald say dropped offline just as UFOs were being reported in the vicinity.

BTW, Jamison first told me of his involvement in the Oscar retargeting in 1992, some four years before Bob Salas went public with his revelations about his and Fred Meiwald’s involvement in a shutdown incident. As we now know, although Salas had forgotten the designation of the flight in question, Col. Meiwald first confirmed, on tape in 1996, that it had been Oscar, thereby corroborating the statements made to me by Jamison in 1992 (which were not published until 2008).

Figel did not show up for your sad little dog and pony show, and nobody ever claims that he did. Once again, you're making clear only your ignorance and your paranoia.

As for Jamison, you know very well that between 1992 and 2008, he was completely unable to place a date or a location to his absurd little story. It wasn't until you convinced him that his story would be better suited for your audience if he recognized the date and location as March 24-25, 1967 at Oscar Flight.

Regarding "Salas had forgotten the designation of the flight in question", which Meiwald confirmed as Oscar Flight in 1996, than why did Salas refuse to believe this claim for another three years? Are you so unfamiliar with the back story you've invented? All of this begs the question, how exacly could Meiwald confirm Jamison's Oscar Flight myth in 1996 when not even Salas was claiming this at the time? And how could Jamison confirm an Oscar Flight event in 1996 when he was unable to present any testimony whatsoever regarding time and place?

You can't play me for a fool, Robert, not when I have proven to be far more familiar with the facts of this case than either you or Salas, a conclusion that your statements in this forum make very plain. Your repeated ignorance regarding what was claimed and when -- a consistent failure on your part -- once again represents nothing more than proof of both your dishonesty and your poor analysis. You should be more careful. Your habit of recreating this incident everytime somebody points out the flaws in it have turned your brain to mush. Your attempts to erase that inconsistency that represents the most consistent part of your commentary is causing you to make far too many stupid errors regarding when you and your witnesses changed what parts of your story. I for one have been keeping track of the changes you people keep trying to incorporate into your UFO mythos. More importantly (and you should seriously remember this the next time you decide publish your moronic ramblings, because it is absolutely a fact of modern day life), once you've put something on the internet, it's not going anywhere. You are on the record forever.
Last edited by James Carlson on Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Robert Hastings » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:17 am

Cutting to the Chase

James Carlson writes:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread537468/pg12
“The only people who were at Echo-Flight on March 16, 1967 and therefore the only people who can assert any possible authority for the event, were Walt Figel and my father, who was in charge. And both deny the presence of UFOs at Echo-Flight.”

Walt Figel actually says:

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2010/09 ... -hunt.html
(Audio link to the taped telephone conversation Figel had with former missile launch officer Bob Salas in 1996. This was the first time Figel had spoken about the Echo Flight shutdown event since 1967, according to Figel.)

“[On the date of the Echo Flight incident we already had teams out in the field] because they were doing maintenance on, I don’t know, the guidance cans or something, and the maintenance crews were staying [overnight] and there was security and maintenance on-site on both, uh, on two of the ten sites.”

“Then when the first [missile] went down, and I talked to the security out there, they reported this UFO hovering over the site. I said, ‘Yeah, right. What have you guys been drinking out there?’ And we [sent] Strike teams to both of the sites that had been occupied.”

“These Strike Teams—I didn’t tell them what we had heard [about the UFO]—you know, via the LF radio, and I told them to go get within a mile of the site there and call back in on the VHF (Very High Frequency telephone). And they both reported that we had two maintenance crews, two security troops on-site, and two Strike Teams all reporting it...”

LATER IN THE CONVERSATION, FIGEL MORE OR LESS REPEATS HIMSELF:

“Well, I [reportedly] had them hovering over the sites, you know, and I said, ‘Right, I’m not a believer in that crap!’ And that was reported on the secure line, and I told those guys to make no transmissions and, when the Strike Teams got out there—they were on VHF back to me—and they had no idea in the world what I even told them to look for, and they reported them [too].”

END OF TAPED EXCERPT

So, James, Walt Figel did indeed report a UFO presence at Echo Flight--the very first time he spoke about it after being told to not ever discuss it, by his squadron commander, decades earlier. (According to Figel, your father was told the same thing.) If you can't even get this most basic of facts correct, why should anyone bother reading the rest of your claims and, ahem, informed observations?

My taped interview with Col. Frederick Meiwald will be up at The UFO Chronicles by next weekend. As previously noted, Meiwald confirms "the majority" of Bob Salas' public remarks about a second mass-missile shutdown, at Oscar Flight, during which a UFO was sighted by security personnel as it hovered near one of the LFs.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby chrLz » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:18 am

I am reaching for my moderator's hat and sword...

James, while I understand you are a bit excitable and emotive at times... please tone it down and walk the high road.

That applies to Mr Hastings also (and me!) - this is a public forum and a little more decorum is called for. Be brief, to the point, and simply provide evidence to show any falsehoods. The language being used is clearly inviting an escalation, and frankly, all the insults are of no great interest except to you two. (Anyone disagree?)

If you must, post all the abuse on a website of your own, and just attack the facts here.

Thanks for your cooperation.

(If there are more threads loaded with insults - from *anyone*, I may simply delete them, and invite the culprit to repost them once appropriately edited... so why not do the right thing *before* posting?)
"To wear the mantle of Galileo, it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment. You must also be right." - Robert L. Park (..almost)
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