Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby astrophotographer » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:44 am

Don't let it bother you. Warren is just another UFO proponent/mouthpiece interested in perpetuating a mystery. He begs people for money every month in order to "support research". Yet, he does not identify what research is being conducted. All I can figure is it pays for his website and nothing else. If that is "research", then he really is not being honest is he?

I think your work is something they do not want to acknowledge. Many of the readers of these blogs/websites/books seem to have no interest in reading anything but what they want to read. By ignoring you, they do not have to worry about those readers being knowledgable about what you have written.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:25 am

You know, I'm sure your right -- and being ignored honestly doesn't bother me that much. But what appears to be a conscious decision to suppress the information by whatever means is available to them is just intolerable, and I simply cannot help being disgusted and angered over that sort of obvious, blatantly dishonest, tactical decision, because it's exactly the same sort of act that they consistently accuse the USAF and the U.S. Department of Defense of doing as a result of corruption at the highest levels of our government. These people should be ashamed of themselves, and the people that give them the sad and ignorant benefit of every single doubt imaginable should be just as disgusted with them as I am. I understand that there's nothing anybody can do about it, but when these things take place surrounded by the self-righteous yet passive clamoring for information that's being demanded by this same group of individuals, the shameless hypocrisy of it does begin to wear down a little bit of that human shell blocking off the frustration. If I can just hang on a bit until adult-swim comes up on the cartoon channel, I'll be just fine. Until then, maybe I'll just go outside and spit a lot. Ha! That makes a lovely picture to imagine! Aloha, and all ...
Last edited by James Carlson on Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:16 am

James,

James Carlson wrote: I understand that there's nothing anybody can do about it, but when these things take place surrounded by the self-righteous yet passive clamoring for information that's being demanded by this same group of individuals, the shameless hypocrisy of it does begin to wear down a little bit of that human shell blocking off the frustration.


The efforts and results of your work matters a lot to those of us who feel exactly as you do, even if we do not always fawn like the "true believers" do over the nonsense disinfo. From my perspective, the frustration stems from a genuine concern for what used to be a vibrant, and intelligent democracy. The mean intelligence level of our society has been in decline for at least 2 decades now, and that means the relative gullability has also gone up. The meme that feeds these self-proclaimed "UFO conspiracy busters" is all around us. One need look no further than Reality TV. ANYTHING goes on those programs. The goal is to take the level of sesationalism to a level higher than the fame-seekers that came before them. Nothing is off limits. Ethics and/or modesty does not matter, and so the truth, as defined by evidence and the scientific method has become the sad casualty. All that matters is the self-proclaimed UFOlogists attract as much attention to themselves as they can.

But we can do something about it. As a part-time prof of aerospace engineering, I have the pleasure of teaching the very first ARO class that freshman engineering students encounter. In addition to basic aerodynamic principles, my ABET-compliant syllabus requirements demand I teach them the basics of critical thinking and scientific method within the context of how it is applied in developing engineering thought processes. I structure my whole class around this concept, while also teaching them the specifics they need to learn about aerodynamics. I often even point them to forums like this, and other forums I participate in where I am generally known as the scientific debunker. As such, I encourage you to reach out to the youth of our country. Help save the next generation from becoming even more clueless than this one.

If I can just hang on a bit until adult-swim comes up on the cartoon channel, I'll be just fine.


HA HA! Adult Swim, and South Park, are also my antidotes for the sheer stupidity that is rampant in society. South Park is especially good because the astute viewer will see the rapier-like social commentary beneath the potty humor. And often, very often, it deals with the same idiocy we discuss above. So you see, even Matt and Trey are doing their part, within their own sphere of influence. In my mind, that is the key for how we save the world. Not everyone can be an aero engineering professor, or even an Emmy award winning animated storyteller. But every single occupation contains within it an opportunity to teach, and mentor, and help prevent the erosion of a perfectly good mind.

Kind Regards,
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:36 am

Well put words of wisdom Ray. My wife was just now catching me up on her day, and she exclaimed, "what's the matter with our generation? For some reason we're all idiots."

I said, "yeah, I know, we've been expressing that same sentiment on RU," which she ignored, because she doesn't know (or care, more likely) what RU is. So she just continued like I hadn't said anything at all.

"Basic education just disappears with some folks. You're not being 'artistic' when you name your kid 'Candace with a K' -- you're being illiterate. I met a woman today who named her daughter 'Remora'. Can you just imagine? She named her daughter after a fish that eats shark poo."

I have one more hour until South Park, and now I'm signing off the internet for tonight. God help us all.

And my wife says, "oh, He will. We just won't notice it ..." =D>
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Access Denied » Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:27 am

James Carlson wrote:I understand now why Frank Warren summarily removed my commentaries to UFOCHRONICLES with nary a whisper: I think he's on the #%$@*(& payroll! "A life long search for the truth"?? I think I'm going to go throw up now.

You think?

You may enjoy this short piece on our blog I wrote about our experience with him last year…

UFOlogy Uncovered: Handicapping the “Other Side”

UFOlogy is frequently criticized for not making new information or analysis that may cast an “unfavorable light” on a given case or cases readily available to others. In some cases it would appear opposing points of views are actively being suppressed by handicapping the “other side” in various, sometimes subtle, ways. The following may be one example of how this is being accomplished.

On April 1st, RU received the following email from Robert Hastings…

As Frank would say, "The rest of the story . . . "

James Carlson wrote:… because it's exactly the same sort of act that they consistently accuse the USAF and the U.S. Department of Defense of doing as a result of corruption at the highest levels of our government.

Bingo.

Like I said a couple of pages back, another play right out of the UFOlogist’s Bible…

"1. What the public doesn’t know, I won’t tell them.

2. Don’t bother me with the facts, my mind is made up.

3. If one can’t attack the data, attack the people; it is easier.

4. Do one’s research by proclamation; investigation is too much trouble."


It’s actually Stanton Friedman’s “rules for debunking” but if you spend any significant amount of time studying this field (I find the psychosocial aspects of it absolutely fascinating) you soon realize all successful UFOlogists share those traits…

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:39 am

Alright, I went back and read everything, and then re-read it, and then I asked my wife to read it,and she didn't understand a lot of it, so I'm trying to explain without raising my voice, and that's not easy sometimes, I assure you, because a lot of times I tend to speak like a blur of symbols in every sentence and my voice creeps in a little bit louder and than I have to go outside a second and deep breathe that creep away so my wife doesn't think I'm getting frustrated with her or something and I end up apologizing over and over again, saying "it's not you, it's just these insane people ..." and then, suddenly, all I can say is Wow! I knew from my own experiences applied to a little basic, honest knowledge of what it means to be a properly functioning, reasonable human being that these weren't the morally upright guys they claim they are, primarily because of the tactics they adopt, the arrogant posturing, the cycnicism, that protest of indignity or the useless, enraged triumph, the over-God-like concern with the most petty strategies and actions in the place of reason that you can possibly conceive on a relatively good day, and the insistent and repetitious acts that indicate they think, no, they know, they can just wear you down until they get what they want, leaving you and your thoughts and your disgust completely out of the picture -- God, these guys are so obviously and incredibly born from the exact same mold and personality profile and that fundamental stamp of God on the coin of the realm that oh, my God, you instantly recognize even as you're looking for the flashing red lights outside as Richard f%@#(*$ Nixon!!

These obnoxious idiots and their self-righteous indignation make me tired. I'm going to bed now. Thanks, man -- your UFOlogy Uncovered: Handicapping the “Other Side” hit the spot on the wall exactly, and it was damn enlightening. I get it now, and it's all pretty simple:

They profess stupidity or act indignantly ignorant in order to hide the fact that they're a bunch of manipulative, arrogant, petty, tacticians with an agenda that has nothing at all to do with honesty and the pride and self-knowledge that it takes to be truly honest.

I'm not certain whether or not I've ever told you this, but after my father got out of the Air Force, he became a psychologist -- a therapist for people who couldn't ordinarily afford one that got into some trouble with the law -- mostly -- but I think he must have had some insight regarding this particular group of people -- Salas, Hastings, Warren, and others of that ilk -- because many years ago he told me that if I really didn't care about the subject one way or another, which defines his own attitude for the most part, it would probably be best in the long run to just let it go. He suggested that when I was an old man looking back on it, I would probably find that the general cost was too high for what I actually got out of it and was able to retain. I have to say, he's an astute man, sometimes. However, while I'm certain he understands it well enough, I doubt that he recognizes, as I tend to, that responsibility is supposed to be general -- not a commodity managed solely by one's acceptance or the adoption of an accountable personality.

Plus, I just love pissing these guys off.

Later,
James
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:47 pm

Looking back on the last few postings, I believe I've probably gotten off topic just a little bit, and I apologize for that. It's just that I'm completely stunned at the crass hypocrisy exhibited by people who own their own websites, exersise an influence, and should be above that sort of easygoing, petty listlessness for that reason. I expect that of politicians, but I never expected it of people who are attempting to proctor and provide the means for multiple discussions regarding the relevance and factual basis of historical events. People like that should get off of the internet and run for their local school board or something. In any case, I'm sorry and I'll try to stick to the point, which is not why Frank Warren actively suppresses valid research on a number of fronts, so much as the actual fact that Frank Warren actively suppresses valid research regarding the Echo Flight Incident. His reasons for doing so could be anything, probably related to a paycheck at the end of the week. But I'll try very hard to stick to the point from here on out, and not get caught up in my amazement at the ridiculous and petty lengths some people will go to maintain an environment wrapped up in ignorance. My own verbosity is the punishment I get for having a glass of wine before bed, and I apologize for subjecting you to it.

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Tim Hebert » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:55 am

James,

It reminds me when I was posting comments to Hastings' thread on the missileforums site and the passing of email comments back and forth between Hastings and me, and Hasting's making my emails public. My wife had read Hastings' comments and read some of the stuff on the UFO Chronicles. She concluded that I would have been better served searching the internet for porn!

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:58 am

Yeah, he published private emails of mine as well -- I don't think there's an honest bone in that guy's whole friggin' body. He's written emails to current members of the missile crews at Malmstrom AFB saying the most disgusting crap you can imagine, that I'm deeply disturbed, and should be under the care of a doctor, and that my parents are really worried. He's also published that I'm a user of LSD or some other drug or some such thing, a secret he syupposedly discovered on the basis of some old Facebook page or something (the only proof he apparently needed to publish that load of crap was my refusal to comment on his worthless and childish suggestions; go figure) -- just more of his attention grabbing B.S. I'm seriously considering a lawsuit on the basis of some of the things he's published and has been saying about me to others, but right now that seems like such an expensive chore -- I was thinking perhaps I should just do it anyway on the basis of good form and to make his strategic cries for insistence more commonly known and then arrange for him to be served notice during his National Press Club "Review of the Dancing Chevalier", starring Kathy Seldon and Don Lockwood, with music by Cosmo Brown. Let's see him put on his fancy taps for that... Enough B.S. from his hind-brain and I just might end up owning all of the rights to UFOs and Nukes. You know what would happen to his wonderful science fiction novel then right? Flusssshhhh!!!
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby pork » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:08 am

Holy smokes!

I just joined here, so be gentle please. I scanned a bit-buuuuut to honest it is going to take me weeks to read all of this thread.

My father was a CCC--and had an ugly and career 'ending' exp @ Malmstrom in the middle 70s. I shared this on OMF in my early posts; before OMF went psychotic and it all went to hell and back. I only shared this info after my father had passed. I am several years behind the UFO media and 'community'. I am a one time witness, and a nuts and bolts skeptical believer. I will in short tell that he witnessed a huge craft the size of three football fields in length....while on station. He told me about in about 1985 or so, well after he was honorably discharged, but was USAF Reserve.

I was shocked to find all this stuff a few years ago... Now I am shcoked to find this stuff. I couldn't care weither way about Salas (whom I have since spoken to) and Hastings. I am not a kook-but a University degreed sommelier and father, husband, 401k, mortgage, etc. Please allow me a while to catch up for a few weeks before you gut me please!

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Tim Hebert » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:45 am

Pork,

The issue that I have with the Malmstrom 1967 incident is that no one, I repeat no one saw ANYTHING! That does not mean that those officers alluded to by Hastings are liars. In fact, their statements to Hastings are perfectly clear, they heard about UFOs in the field.....second hand, third hand, and so on. Yet, they saw nothing, period. Those individuals who reportedly saw something remain unknown, no names, nor rank associated with them.

I concur that the 18XX career field was a fine thin line between the makings of a future "Chief of Staff" and pounding rocks at Leavenworth, KS. During the 1980s, I found that pulling the alerts, trainer rides, and standboard evals were tolerable. It was the ancillary B.S. that I found made the job nerve racking.

What squadrong and flight did your father pull his alerts?

Tim, former 490th SMS crew commander
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:40 am

Welcome to the forum, Pork. I hope you find it as interesting and open-minded as I have. I have few issues with the UFO community in general, but I think you'll notice pretty quickly that there is a small handful of unfortunately very public ranters on the UFO-proponent side that I do have issues with. Honestly, the only thing I know about UFOs is what I learned during my own research of the Echo Flight Incident that has been so well-expounded upon by Roberts Hastings and Salas. My father was, like yours, a missileer -- just a few years earlier, it looks like -- and both he and I are very proud of his accomplishments and the job he did with the USAF. My point of view is that this career was co-opted by a few people who are absolutely aware that their proposals are lies. I don't believe they've made errors in judgment, and I don't think that they "misremembered" anything that happened so long ago -- they've done more than enough research on their own to know very well what happened in 1967, and they figured they could take advantage of what they knew in order to provide for themselves a nice retirement. My Dad wouldn't go along with it, even after they contacted him to get some sort of confirmation of the events they were proposing, so they figured their only option was to attack him, even though he couldn't care less what they did and had (and still has) no intention of trying to expose their little con-game. But I don't like seeing my Dad called a liar in public, because he's an honest man. So I looked into their claims myself, and the more I looked, the more convinced I became that their arguments should be countered. They're basically attempting to blackmail the Department of Defense by arousing public anger -- and they're doing it all on the basis of a lie. I served in the military as well, and I find it damned insulting. I was happy to find like-minded folks all over the place. The owners of this website convinced me that their only goal was an investigation of fact -- they weren't prepared to lean one way or the other, and they impressed me with their honesty enough that I was willing to share whatever I found, and discuss it with whomever wanted to come along for the ride. I want you to know that I don't discount entirely that the Department of Defense may have hidden or refused to discuss what they know about UFOs down the line -- I just discount that they did so regarding the Echo Flight Incident. I honestly don't have any other issues as to UFOs -- I think it would make the universe a lot more interesting having UFOs in it than not, and although I tend to examine things with a skeptic's eye, I don't discount them entirely simply because they happen to be best described by those three letters U, F. and O. On Echo Flight, however, I've done my research, and I've got those days down solid -- and if you look at the evidence dispassionately, I'm sure you'll agree.

In any case, whether you agree or not, welcome to the forum. It's always nice to have someone with the background to pick up on the discussion quickly!

Cheers,
James Carlson
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby pork » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:51 pm

Thanks! I am not a USAF vet nor am I an expert...but my sister and I were born & lived on AFBs most of out childhoods (until 18)-(Vanderberg,Wright/Pat/Columbus, Patrick Missle/AFB, Barksdale, Carswell) and dealt with my Pops all our lives. My story of his story is what he told me as a father to a son. I am only conveying his experience and concepts told to me by him. I could go on and on, but this is about Malmstrom AFB.

My father was Michael D ********** and was assigned to the 341 Strategic Missle Wing of SAC. He held a BS, MS and served two tours in the RVN. He earned his commission in 1968.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:33 am

If you guys want a good laugh regarding the kind of support that Robert Hastings is attracting, take a look at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/show.aspx? ... -and-nukes -- start from the bottom and work your way up; I originally assumed this guy was just ignorant of the issues raised, but now I'm certain he's got the mind of an infant. His commentary is just stunning. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it ... it's like trying to carry on a conversation with Forrest Gump if Forrest Gump were psychotic and hallucinating regularly. I should have realized the state of absolute denial this guy was under, and quit debating anything at all with him, but then I wouldn't have been able to witness his complete, functional break with reality at the end there. It's brilliant evidence of the dumbing down of America...
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby astrophotographer » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:08 am

It's all about sellling books and making a name for oneself. That is the bottom line. There is no desire to search for the truth. The only desire is to find the "truth" Hastings wants to find. Hastings stops short every time once he finds what he wants. He knows that if he looks further, he may find something he does not want to know.
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