Project Camelot

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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Access Denied » Sat May 01, 2010 5:59 pm

Rintendo wrote:We do not have enough data collected to even understand how an experiment to "prove" the existence of extra-terrestrial visitors could be performed, nor do we have the tools to perform it yet.

Yes, we do. I think you missed my point. if people are seeing ET, they can be recorded with nstruments we already have that are more accurate than our own senses.

Rintendo wrote:There is no way that anyone could prove to skeptics that UFOs are extra-terrestrial in origin without them landing and an actual news stations covering it live as it happened.

Not true, something like that would be certainly be convincing but there are other acceptable forms of evidence.

Rintendo wrote:OR

We can man a shuttle or craft to their possible home world. Nothing short of it is "proof".

We’re working on that… doubt we’ll see any breakthroughs anytime soon though.

Rintendo wrote:Why? Because they are non-discriminatory in who they allow to speak?

Yes.

Rintendo wrote:Is it their responsibility to make up your mind for you what is b.s. and what is real?

No.

Rintendo wrote:As if you won't know it yourself when you listen to people talk?

Do you believe it’s impossible for anyone to lie to you without you knowing it?

Rintendo wrote:No, I don't believe in them, actually. I just believe in giving others the opportunity to.

That’s cool, I just think it’s irresponsible to allow people who can’t back up their claims to influence others.

Rintendo wrote:I am more along the lines of CERN scientists. They are from another dimension.

Doesn’t matter where they come from, they can’t exist or be detectable in our world unless they conform to our laws of physics while they’re here.
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby gunter » Sat May 01, 2010 6:19 pm

Tom, I have a hunch that the state of human knowledge is far less advanced than you assume- and that your attitude will assure a continuance of that state of affairs. I recommend a little book by Whitehead, "Science and the Modern World", as a primer on that concept.
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Access Denied » Sat May 01, 2010 6:38 pm

You're assuming there are no limits and our knowledge hasn't been increasing at an exponential rate...

I remain committed to exploring those limits to see if there's a way around them.
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby gunter » Sat May 01, 2010 6:56 pm

The 'limits' are a function of will. Imagination destroys that idol. The human inclination towards novelty should never be denied. Such a denial is both futile and self-defeating. Our enemy is 'belief.' Belief is the destroyer of knowledge.
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Rintendo » Sat May 01, 2010 7:17 pm

Access Denied wrote:
Rintendo wrote:We do not have enough data collected to even understand how an experiment to "prove" the existence of extra-terrestrial visitors could be performed, nor do we have the tools to perform it yet.

Yes, we do. I think you missed my point. if people are seeing ET, they can be recorded with nstruments we already have that are more accurate than our own senses.


People are randomly seeing ET. Many times they see something, mentally try to decipher if it is an airplane, a star, etc before they rush for a video cam, camera, or use their shitty camera phone. You seem to imply that everyone is sitting around prepared for a random event and that is just preposterous.

Now if you mean the government, that's different. IF they exist the government is probably searching the skies for them with better equipment but none of us will know it until they have deduced that any risk they bring is mitigated or else deal with widespread panic and possibly a collapse of the machine that they have built. Suddenly as Reagan said, we would be citizens of Planet Earth and all the old rules would collapse.

Rintendo wrote:
There is no way that anyone could prove to skeptics that UFOs are extra-terrestrial in origin without them landing and an actual news stations covering it live as it happened.

Not true, something like that would be certainly be convincing but there are other acceptable forms of evidence.


You think too highly of your fellow skeptics.

Rintendo wrote:
Why? Because they are non-discriminatory in who they allow to speak?

Yes.


That's very nanny-state of you.


Rintendo wrote:
As if you won't know it yourself when you listen to people talk?

Do you believe it’s impossible for anyone to lie to you without you knowing it?


Yes, deep down we don't always admit it but our animal instincts know when people are full of s^~t. It's our hearts that don't.

Rintendo wrote:
No, I don't believe in them, actually. I just believe in giving others the opportunity to.

That’s cool, I just think it’s irresponsible to allow people who can’t back up their claims to influence others.


They're not allowing people to influence others. They are allowing them the ability to speak. Whether or not they have any influence at all is based on their own capacity to motivate and the willingness of the individual to choose to be motivated by them.

I personally don't mind because there is less harm in believing in reptilians, nordics, or space rabbits then there is believing that GMCs won't hurt you. There is more harm in shutting down the imagination and plugging your brain into the consumer machine.
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Access Denied » Sun May 02, 2010 6:04 am

gunter wrote:The 'limits' are a function of will.

Depends, I agree there may no be limits other than will to what can be achieved with creativity and perseverance in terms of improving the human condition but the limits I’m referring to are physical…

“Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn’t have to build the spaceship himself” ~AD

Consider for example…

The Relativistic Rocket
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/R ... ocket.html

The theory of relativity sets a severe limit to our ability to explore the galaxy in space ships. As an object approaches the speed of light, more and more energy is needed to accelerate it further. To reach the speed of light an infinite amount of energy would be required. It seems that the speed of light is an absolute barrier which cannot be reached or surpassed by massive objects (see relativity FAQ article on faster than light travel). Given that the galaxy is about 100,000 light years across there seems little hope for us to get very far in galactic terms unless we can overcome our own mortality.

However, even if we someday achieve immortality and figure out a way to meet the astronomically huge energy requirements to travel near the speed of light…

One major problem you would have to solve is the need for shielding. As you approach the speed of light you will be heading into an increasingly energetic and intense bombardment of cosmic rays and other particles. After only a few years of 1g acceleration even the cosmic background radiation is Doppler shifted into a lethal heat bath hot enough to melt all known materials.

We’re still not going anywhere anytime soon.

Oh well, back to the drawing board…

Rintendo wrote:You seem to imply that everyone is sitting around prepared for a random event and that is just preposterous.

No, the instruments needed to capture evidence of ET are not that expensive and they can be set up to monitor the sky constantly by anyone… if we’re being visited by ET as often as people seem to see UFOs, one is bound to come by sooner or later.

Why are no UFOlogists doing this? One of our members here, Astrophotographer, estimates the equipment to do this could cost as little as $15,000 yet people like Robert Hastings would rather ask UFO buffs to help him raise $15,000 so he can fly some alleged UFO witnesses that have already documented in the book he’s selling to a press conference in Washington DC to “testify” to the “reality” of ET visitation…

Rintendo wrote:That's very nanny-state of you.

Ouch.

I’m talking about all the so-called “whistleblowers” and “insiders” who claim to “know” the “Truth” and are never required to present any evidence to back up their claims. On the other hand, I’ve got no problem with people saying “This is what I think might be true and why, what do you think?”

Rintendo wrote:There is more harm in shutting down the imagination and plugging your brain into the consumer machine.

More harm than fear-mongering based on nothing more than unsubstantiated claims and uninformed speculation? You know, if I had a dime for every “doomsday” prediction that didn’t come true I would be a rich man…
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby commdogg » Sun May 02, 2010 8:59 am

Cool thread guys,

Short time reader, first time poster.
You guys are a godsend. One more recycled thread about Mars image artifacts, or another "insider" interview with a remote viewer in contact with ET, that normally appear on other sites, and I may have lost it.

"Camelot" is really funny to me, "Hey look at us travelling around to all these exotic locales talking to people, wait, hang on, please frantically send us money so we can keep the lights on." Swiftly followed by, "Okay please send more money because we have another video to post from a brilliant insider scientist." When, invariably, they post it, its another delusional quack who couldn't "find" the real photo of the super secret airplane, but managed to draw his own for the camera. Napkins and crayons are highly technical and scientific. "See look I stamped 'Top Secret' on my MS Paint drawing of an aircraft so you KNOW its real."

I've been trying to follow the hoaxer trail a bit on these boards, and I am very curious about this Rick Doty guy. It sounds like you guys have compiled a bit on his background somewhere, but where? I'm semi literate on a good day, and basically as useful as a monkey on a rocketship when navigating forums. When I put "Rick Doty" in the search box theres about 6 million hits. I really want to know what sort of solid information you guys have found on him. Right now, its information overload.

There might be something to this. Poor innocent Bill Ryan, duped by this Doty guy on the Serpo thing, IMPROVES UPON Doty's normal Modus Operandi, at least as I've observed with my limited navigation skills of this board. If Doty's MO was to scam gullible individuals out of large sums of money with fruadulent crap, Bill and whomever this Kerry Cassidy person is, get along fine with paypal, a digital camera, a bunch of speculative and unverifiable original content, and an endless parade of knuckleheads to send them a couple of bucks. I think this is the Madoff scheme of Ufology. I'll just make a mental note for the next time they are broke at a 5 star hotel attending a crappy conference. Or, when they solicit donations for their own conference, but back off at the last minute for "unforseen financial difficulties" like they did last year. Its easy to cancel speakers when they go off the farm again because MJ-12 recalled them to active duty for higher priority delusions.

The seriously remarkable thing about Project Camelot is that it has worked well enough to keep them paid this long.
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Zep Tepi » Sun May 02, 2010 11:27 am

I agree with Commdogg (welcome to the forum btw, nice first post!), this is a cool thread.

I'll get to Rick Doty, but first I'd like to clear up this idea that Project Camelot is entertainment and is simply a place to let people speak. I was one of the first people Bill Ryan spoke to regarding the Camelot idea, and even worked on some logo designs for him. Obviously, what happened next made sure we would never work together on anything ever again, let alone a site giving a voice to hoaxers and the deluded ;)

Bill Ryan believes in what he is doing 100%, as does Kerry Cassidy. At least, that was certainly true at the start and I see no reason as to why that isn't the case now. Bill believes nearly every conspiracy going and no amount of evidence to the contrary is going to convince him that he may be wrong. I believe the reason for this lies in his Scientology background and Ron's Org work. He has been thoroughly brainwashed by the Scientology cult and is now too old to ever change. You think smoking pot makes you paranoid? Scientology is pot to the power 10.

Anyway, as for what he's doing being harmless entertainment, no, that simply doesn't wash. As a practitioner of Scientology, he knows very well the power of suggestion and he is using the Internet in order to convince as many people as possible that his truth is THE truth. If that makes him a lot of money along the way, fantastic!

From the About Us section:
To date, we have traveled widely meeting and interviewing truth-tellers in the effort to provide enlightening testimony about the true nature of our world.


Right there is confirming that the people he interviews are telling the truth, and what we know about the world is false. They have the answers, they have the truth. Why is that a problem? Well, here's why:

From Goals
All those interviewees we’ve published are with those people who we are either convinced are telling the truth, or have such an important (if true) story to tell that to decline to publish because the data are unbelievable or inconvenient would actually be a dereliction of journalistic duty.


They put themselves forward as journalists, yet do absolutely nothing to check on the veracity of any of the stories. You can't say all they're doing is providing an outlet for people to tell their stories when they are the one's actively seeking these people out! What's more, they want your money in order to continue doing so. Is that harmless?

Also, from the same "About Us" link, above:
Contrary to most people's very natural assumptions, they are not a couple.


They may not be a couple now, but they certainly were a couple when they started the site - and for some time thereafter. The sentence above implies they have never been a couple, but we know for a fact they were. We (Ryan and I) had chatted to them both on several occasions, their constant affectations for each other was actually mildy nauseating.

Such a misleading statement is something Bill Ryan is well-known for. When evidence of his Scientology involvement first surfaced, he indignantly told people he was actually on the Church of Scientology's "enemies list", obviously implying he couldn't be a scientologist. He is in fact a very high ranking member of Ron's Org, a large group of "free" scientologists who have no involvement with the church. They still make a ton of money auditing people, however.

Rick Doty
There is a massive amount of material regarding Doty and it needs collating into something more user friendly. That is something I'd already started, but never actually completed. We have a Wiki here that is only open to RU staff, but a comprehensive Doty section would be perfect. Hmm, that's given me an idea :)

In the meantime, I'll have a look for the best threads and post them in the relevant section, so you can get started. The Behind Serpo thread is a great place to start. It's only 55 pages long...
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby gunter » Sun May 02, 2010 2:11 pm

Certainly Bill's association with RO Scientology says something about the musings of the 'whistleblowers' he features, Zep. If he can accept the COS mythos he can accept almost anything. In fact the very same point can be made about Christian true believers. Virgin birth anyone? But that said, is also remains true that neither religion nor metaphysical speculation are subject to scientific method- nor, I might add, are the precepts of the religion of science for that matter. Consider everything but believe nothing.
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Rintendo » Sun May 02, 2010 5:38 pm

Access Denied wrote:
Rintendo wrote:You seem to imply that everyone is sitting around prepared for a random event and that is just preposterous.

No, the instruments needed to capture evidence of ET are not that expensive and they can be set up to monitor the sky constantly by anyone… if we’re being visited by ET as often as people seem to see UFOs, one is bound to come by sooner or later.


As often as people seem to see UFOs? They see them less than people see spotted owls, you are exaggerating the numbers because you are knee deep in the discussions. Take your head out of these types of forums and the stuff barely registers on the news.

Access Denied wrote:Why are no UFOlogists doing this? One of our members here, Astrophotographer, estimates the equipment to do this could cost as little as $15,000 yet people like Robert Hastings would rather ask UFO buffs to help him raise $15,000 so he can fly some alleged UFO witnesses that have already documented in the book he’s selling to a press conference in Washington DC to “testify” to the “reality” of ET visitation…


First, how do we know that your friend is correct in his cost estimates? Why isn't SETI doing this rather than the approach they are taking?

Given that the cries of "Photoshopped" are prevalent in skeptics forums, the types of cameras and surveillance equipment would have to be so granular and perfect that I do not believe that the cost of total sky surveillance for the GLOBE could be contained in $15K. I call bullshit--no offense.

Access Denied wrote:
Rintendo wrote:That's very nanny-state of you.

Ouch.

I’m talking about all the so-called “whistleblowers” and “insiders” who claim to “know” the “Truth” and are never required to present any evidence to back up their claims. On the other hand, I’ve got no problem with people saying “This is what I think might be true and why, what do you think?”


Fair enough.

Access Denied wrote:
Rintendo wrote:There is more harm in shutting down the imagination and plugging your brain into the consumer machine.

More harm than fear-mongering based on nothing more than unsubstantiated claims and uninformed speculation? You know, if I had a dime for every “doomsday” prediction that didn’t come true I would be a rich man…


If I had a dime for every time my meteorologist was wrong about the weather I would be a rich woman, but it doesn't stop me from stocking up when they say a snow's coming. Preventative measures never hurt. Are they fear mongering? I'm not afraid. The sooner aliens arrive and free us from this consumer driven existence to either fight for something or bring us the keys to world peace the better.

However, I have a bad feeling we're just all stuck in this ugly rut until we die.
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby ryguy » Mon May 03, 2010 3:24 pm

Wow...great post Steve.

I agree...awesome thread!

I just wanted to respond to an earlier post of Rintendo's, because it's important.

Rintendo wrote:We do not have enough data collected to even understand how an experiment to "prove" the existence of extra-terrestrial visitors could be performed, nor do we have the tools to perform it yet.


I disagree that we don't have the tools to understand it yet. Most of the greatest discoveries came from a few intelligent folks utilizing the tools that they had in order to discern the reality...they didn't sit around waiting for technology to do the work for them. Two of my favorite examples are below - notice how the discovery, using intelligent observation of a phenomenon and reproducing it using existing technologies led to practical reproductions of the phenomenon (which eventually led to even better technologies)...not the other way around:

The Science Channel

4. The Second Law of Thermodynamics (1824 – 1850)
Scientists working to improve the efficiency of steam engines develop an understanding of the conversion of heat into work. They learn that the flow of heat from higher to lower temperatures is what drives a steam engine, likening the process to the flow of water that turns a mill wheel. Their work leads to three principles: heat flows spontaneously from a hot to a cold body; heat cannot be completely converted into other forms of energy; and systems become more disorganized over time.

5. Electromagnetism (1807 – 1873)
Pioneering experiments uncover the relationship between electricity and magnetism and lead to a set of equations that express the basic laws governing them. One of those experiments unexpectedly yields results in a classroom. In 1820, Danish physicist Hans Christian Oersted is speaking to students about the possibility that electricity and magnetism are related. During the lecture, an experiment demonstrates the veracity of his theory in front of the whole class.


I believe that the various "strange" phenomenon can be tested and eventually reproduced once the right questions are asked and the right tests are performed.

I highly doubt we could lure or chase entities whose motivations and technology are not known. Then this "experiment" of which you refer cannot happen yet and will be decades off from even a single protocol being written unless they, if they exist, choose to manifest themselves differently.


This is all wrong - too many assumptions...the first of which is that the phenomenon are caused by "entities" in the first place.

At this point we are in the "observational" phase of the scientific method, a phase where people look at data, discriminate the data, and hypothesize.


I suppose - but there are too many idiots hypothesizing and not enough people performing intelligent experiments...

That is all part of the scientific method. How long we stay in this phase depends upon data collection.


People have been collecting data about UFO's for decades if not longer - there are mountains of data. It's not that there's not enough data, it's just that no one has asked the right questions and performed the right experiments.

Galileo was correct before he had the technology to prove himself 100%. Some of our theories may be correct, but our technology has not yet caught up with our minds ability to conceive it.


This has been the disconnect between cultures and science for ages. Until medicine advanced enough - people thought diseases and plagues were caused by demons and witches...so you're right, our minds certainly have a greater ability to imagine more possibilities than science has the ability to keep up with and lay all of the silliest notions to rest.

There is no way that anyone could prove to skeptics that UFOs are extra-terrestrial in origin without them landing and an actual news stations covering it live as it happened.


That's because most skeptics know that in trying to prove that UFOs are extra-terrestrial, you've already made too many assumptions right out of the gate.

Seems to me Project Camelot is indistinguishable from pure fiction… or worse, a religious cult.

Why? Because they are non-discriminatory in who they allow to speak? Is it their responsibility to make up your mind for you what is b.s. and what is real? As if you won't know it yourself when you listen to people talk?


Because they portray too many unproven ideas as accepted fact when they are not. When you have enough people accepting these common ideas as "fact" and forming their collective sense of reality around those unproven facts, you have the beginnings of a dangerous cult. Jacques Vallee has done an excellent job in documenting how the field of Ufology in particular is a hotbed for generating these sort of groups.

No, I don't believe in them, actually. I just believe in giving others the opportunity to. I am more along the lines of CERN scientists. They are from another dimension.


This would be like being aware that the notion of a flat earth is ridiculous, but being content in letting an entire population continue believing, based on incorrect assumptions, that if they travel to the edge of the earth, they will fall off. You see...the belief came from the mind's tendency to imagine possibilities - scientific discovery came once people stopped believing in superstitions and accepting silly assumptions and started making observations of their own. I repeat - observations of their own, not observations of witnesses.

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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Rintendo » Mon May 03, 2010 4:49 pm

My response..

Rintendo wrote:We do not have enough data collected to even understand how an experiment to "prove" the existence of extra-terrestrial visitors could be performed, nor do we have the tools to perform it yet.

I disagree that we don't have the tools to understand it yet. Most of the greatest discoveries came from a few intelligent folks utilizing the tools that they had in order to discern the reality...they didn't sit around waiting for technology to do the work for them. Two of my favorite examples are below - notice how the discovery, using intelligent observation of a phenomenon and reproducing it using existing technologies led to practical reproductions of the phenomenon (which eventually led to even better technologies)...not the other way around:

The Science Channel

4. The Second Law of Thermodynamics (1824 – 1850)
Scientists working to improve the efficiency of steam engines develop an understanding of the conversion of heat into work. They learn that the flow of heat from higher to lower temperatures is what drives a steam engine, likening the process to the flow of water that turns a mill wheel. Their work leads to three principles: heat flows spontaneously from a hot to a cold body; heat cannot be completely converted into other forms of energy; and systems become more disorganized over time.

5. Electromagnetism (1807 – 1873)
Pioneering experiments uncover the relationship between electricity and magnetism and lead to a set of equations that express the basic laws governing them. One of those experiments unexpectedly yields results in a classroom. In 1820, Danish physicist Hans Christian Oersted is speaking to students about the possibility that electricity and magnetism are related. During the lecture, an experiment demonstrates the veracity of his theory in front of the whole class.


I believe that the various "strange" phenomenon can be tested and eventually reproduced once the right questions are asked and the right tests are performed.


1. Does your average Ufologist currently have the ability to create anti-gravity craft, interplanetary craft, or even a backyard rocket, yes or no?

2. Does your average Ufologists have the funds or equipment to scan the entire airspace of our globe 24/7 to take photographs or video of "events"/"crafts" etc that are refined enough to pass the: "It's photoshopped" test of webheads, scoffers, and cynics?

3. Does your average Ufologist currently have the means or data to know what this phenomenon is so that tests could be performed?

See...I'm going with "no" on all three of those.

If the ships, silver blurs, sauces, etc. are US or foreign military (which is what I believe 99.99999999% of them are) then you still have the challenge of catching a random event with the correct equptment to record this event. If you have no ability to chase them (see question 1) you have no way of confirming that it is a military project as the very nature of those project precludes their "sharing" the information that the project exists at all.

If they are extra/inner/dimensional craft (which I believe may not exist) you still have the same problem as above.

Observing them via photograph or video tells you only those things which are observational--this you already know. It answers no "what" questions, nor does it answer the "how".

It is one thing to say that the possibility of travel by "bending space" using gravity as our Sun does, it is another thing to say that the little silver blurs you see do that. It is still another to say that those little silver blurs need to.

Conjecturing is all you can do at this point...therefore my earlier question stands: why be prohibitive about the discussion?

I highly doubt we could lure or chase entities whose motivations and technology are not known. Then this "experiment" of which you refer cannot happen yet and will be decades off from even a single protocol being written unless they, if they exist, choose to manifest themselves differently.


This is all wrong - too many assumptions...the first of which is that the phenomenon are caused by "entities" in the first place.


Entities, military, reptilians...I don't care really. That is beyond the point. All I am referring to is the object in the sky itself. It could be some RC model, cloud reflection, etc. If you cannot "catch" it or capture its likeness with any resolution of importance then there is no way to narrow the hypothesis phase of research.

At this point we are in the "observational" phase of the scientific method, a phase where people look at data, discriminate the data, and hypothesize.


I suppose - but there are too many idiots hypothesizing and not enough people performing intelligent experiments...


I don't mean to be mean, but...you espouse the scientific method and yet you seem to leave out some very critical and crucial steps. You do not experiment without a hypothesis/protocol, etc. Do you just go into a laboratory and start throwing chemical compounds together and see what happens? It is a waste of money and potentially harmful.

You collect observational data. You then formulate your hypothesis. Then you create your protocol and research proposal: statistics (data), equipment needed, manpower, phases, etc. Bureaucracy (aka Peer or Scientific Review) happens and THEN you perform your research. If you have good results from your experimentation in support of your hypothesis you put those results to review.

That is the scientific method. There is not enough data to form a hypothesis. Without a hypothesis you cannot begin research.

That is all part of the scientific method. How long we stay in this phase depends upon data collection.


People have been collecting data about UFO's for decades if not longer - there are mountains of data. It's not that there's not enough data, it's just that no one has asked the right questions and performed the right experiments.


Says who? If I were on the statistical analyst on the peer or scientific review board I do not believe that I would approve UFO research based on data alone. It is more random than lightning, and there are equal amounts of bad data as good.


There is no way that anyone could prove to skeptics that UFOs are extra-terrestrial in origin without them landing and an actual news stations covering it live as it happened.


That's because most skeptics know that in trying to prove that UFOs are extra-terrestrial, you've already made too many assumptions right out of the gate.


I made no assumption about them being ETs because I think they are mostly black ops. It was an example of how cynical society has become.

Seems to me Project Camelot is indistinguishable from pure fiction… or worse, a religious cult.

Why? Because they are non-discriminatory in who they allow to speak? Is it their responsibility to make up your mind for you what is b.s. and what is real? As if you won't know it yourself when you listen to people talk?


Because they portray too many unproven ideas as accepted fact when they are not. When you have enough people accepting these common ideas as "fact" and forming their collective sense of reality around those unproven facts, you have the beginnings of a dangerous cult. Jacques Vallee has done an excellent job in documenting how the field of Ufology in particular is a hotbed for generating these sort of groups.


The FDA has done worse with their supposed science-based (aka corporate based) guidances and with more real life consequences than believing that Nords will come and save us from this shitty existence.

No, I don't believe in them, actually. I just believe in giving others the opportunity to. I am more along the lines of CERN scientists. They are from another dimension.


This would be like being aware that the notion of a flat earth is ridiculous, but being content in letting an entire population continue believing, based on incorrect assumptions, that if they travel to the edge of the earth, they will fall off. [/quote]

Using that analogy, it would be like if I lived during that time, had never traveled across the ocean myself but just had a firm idea that the flat earth theory was b.s.. I have an opinion. Not fact. They could be right. Who knows? I cannot prove them wrong and as much as you bellyache about how crazy they are...neither can you. Until the facts are in...none of us can say absolutely they are wrong. We can say that we think they are wrong.

You see...the belief came from the mind's tendency to imagine possibilities - scientific discovery came once people stopped believing in superstitions and accepting silly assumptions and started making observations of their own. I repeat - observations of their own, not observations of witnesses.

-Ryan


And now scientism has replaced religion and to what end and betterment of the minds? Instead of giving your mind the freedom to explore all possibilities--even the silly ones you are expected to temper those thoughts until a man wearing a white coat tells you what to think. Scientists are the priests of the new age.

I happen to think that Truth will come only as an extension of our own freedom to think outside any and every box.
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby gunter » Mon May 03, 2010 5:28 pm

Scientists are the priests of the new age.

I happen to think that Truth will come only as an extension of our own freedom to think outside any and every box.
That's how I roll. Will the real flat earthers please stand up?
consider everything/ believe nothing
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Rintendo » Mon May 03, 2010 5:55 pm

Hullo!

*snaps*
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby gunter » Mon May 03, 2010 7:32 pm

Time to resurrect this comment-
Tom, I have a hunch that the state of human knowledge is far less advanced than you assume- and that your attitude will assure a continuance of that state of affairs. I recommend a little book by Whitehead, "Science and the Modern World", as a primer on that concept.
Process philosophy anyone?
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