Fighter Jets Chase UFO

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Re: Fighter Jets Chase UFO

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:07 pm

gunter wrote:He's panning the new TV show- which I haven't seen- but assume it's designed mainly to entertain and sell toothpaste. What I was referring to is his serious written works on the UFO problem and the National Security State. His books require of us much more dedication than sitting on our fat asses in front of the boob tube eating popcorn for a half hour. Any idiot can do that- in fact most idiots do. Ever notice?


So let me get this straight... he is a UFO researcher who wants to be taken seriously (and by your accounts you seem to want to take him seriously). And yet, you admit that he is clearly panning for a show whose goal is to entertain and sell products, NOT take a serious look at UFO evidence. With this dichotomy, one with a keen mind would want to then ask "so how do I KNOW when to take him seriously and when he is just mucking about?" You see, people whose careers depend upon their veracity, and their need to be taken seriously, will often not get mixed-up in things where their veracity and dedication to the truth could be questioned.

For example, on the issue of the serious nature of space exploration, we have Buzz "I will do anything to get some camera time" Aldrin, and then we have the normally recluse Neil Armstrong. Which one would you trust more to tell you the ACTUAL truth about space exploration, both when the cameras are on and when they are off? My vote is with the guy who has taken great pains to protect his reputation, not the guy who is dancing with the stars one week and wrestling with the WWE the next week!

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It's official...

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 pm

...you can call me "Blimpy" from now on. :D

From a Northrop Grumman press release:

Tonight the Department of Defense awarded Aerospace Systems a $517 million agreement to develop up to three Long Endurance Multi-Intelligence Vehicle (LEMV) systems for the U. S. Army. This new hybrid airship weapons system, just larger than the length of a football field, will take to the skies to provide an “unblinking” persistent eye for more than 21 days at a time to aid United States Army troops in Afghanistan.

The agreement, awarded by the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command/Army Forces Strategic Command, will answer the call to design, develop and test a long-duration hybrid airship system within an 18-month time period, and then transport the asset to the Middle East for military assessment. LEMV will sustain altitudes of 20,000 feet for a three-week period, and it will operate within national and international airspace. It will be forward located to support extended geostationary operations from austere operating locations using beyond-line-of-sight command and control.


And from an alternate source:

http://www.rttnews.com/Content/QuickFac ... ck%20Facts

Basically, our principle partner is the Hybrid Air Vehicles (HAV) group in Bedford. So who knows... I may be getting a few trips over there in the coming months and years.
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Re: Fighter Jets Chase UFO

Postby Access Denied » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:16 am

IsaacKoi wrote:The hoaxer admitted the hoax a while ago and posted a video basically boasting about how he fooled people around the world.

I was going to say, assuming it's not CGI, looks like a UFO to me but then I saw this at the top of that article from the Sun...

Got a story? We pay £££

Seems to me that's just asking for a hoax... like Bob Pratt at the National Enquirer did by offering to pay "witnesses" after publishing a copy of the original Roswell Daily Record headline, or ATS offering people like John Lear and Clifford Stone a share of the ad avenue from their own "special" forums, or more recently, OM offering the Pickerings the same...
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Re: Fighter Jets Chase UFO

Postby Chorlton » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:59 am

ryguy wrote:There is for me. I'm convinced if we denounce the crazies and lock them away in the closet with a plaque labeled (herein lies a wasteland of confusion and idiocy, beware) - and then we promote and encourage good, solid researchers who adhere to the principles of evidence and truth...don't you think there's still hope? I do...
-Ry


Ryan you can denounce all you want, it wont make blind bit of difference to the believers and will only, via publicity increase the money the hoaxers, scammers and bandwagon jumpers make.
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Re: Fighter Jets Chase UFO

Postby gunter » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:09 pm

You see, people whose careers depend upon their veracity, and their need to be taken seriously, will often not get mixed-up in things where their veracity and dedication to the truth could be questioned.


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Re: Fighter Jets Chase UFO

Postby lost_shaman » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:49 pm

Chorlton wrote:Ryan you can denounce all you want, it wont make blind bit of difference to the believers and will only, via publicity increase the money the hoaxers, scammers and bandwagon jumpers make.


I have to disagree with you Chorlton. People who want the truth and good research are foaming at the mouth for it. Demand has greatly out paced supply. Meet the supply needs of the people and the "hoaxers, scammers and bandwagon jumpers", as you call them, will just be religated to the "Fiction" shelf on the bookstands and who cares if "Fiction" sales it always has.
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Re: Fighter Jets Chase UFO

Postby Chorlton » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:17 am

lost_shaman wrote:I have to disagree with you Chorlton. People who want the truth and good research are foaming at the mouth for it. Demand has greatly out paced supply. Meet the supply needs of the people and the "hoaxers, scammers and bandwagon jumpers", as you call them, will just be religated to the "Fiction" shelf on the bookstands and who cares if "Fiction" sales it always has.


And I disagree with you. For every Nay sayer born there is equally a believer born as can easily be seen on places like ATS, OM and GLP.
They seem to be born with a total lack of logic and so desperatley need to BELIEVE there is something out there.
These idiots beliefs are fed by the sharks who set up these Ufology sites and collect together all the hoaxed videos to support their beliefs. They then organise Seminars etc, etc to reinforce the believers mistaken beliefs.
You will never convince most believers because to do so would damage their strongest beliefs
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Re: Fighter Jets Chase UFO

Postby lost_shaman » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:29 am

Chorlton wrote:
And I disagree with you. For every Nay sayer born there is equally a believer born as can easily be seen on places like ATS, OM and GLP.


Of course you disagree, unless my last post forced a change in your opinion I wouldn't expect anything less.

That being said "nay sayers" and "believers" are not born, they are conditioned over time just as you seem to have been by what you've posted about yourself that I recall reading in your posts. (Don't worry you are not alone there are others.)

On the other hand learning to become scientifically 'unbiased' (objective and dispassionate) is a learned behavior that anyone can do but it takes real effort on the individuals part to achieve. That's what everyone should strive for objective and dispassionate Science.

As I stated previously demand for good research has always greatly outpaced supply with respect to the UFO subject. IMO, good research has to be by definition scientifically 'unbiased' (objective and dispassionate). No-one is 'born' as an unbiased, objective, and dispassionate scientific mind. This has to learned it has to be taught and it should not be discouraged by "crotchety misanthrope's"* "convinced that nonsense is ruling the world."

* Carl Sagan's words in The Demon-Haunted World pp 304.
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Re: Fighter Jets Chase UFO

Postby Chorlton » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:22 am

lost_shaman wrote:
Chorlton wrote:
And I disagree with you. For every Nay sayer born there is equally a believer born as can easily be seen on places like ATS, OM and GLP.


Of course you disagree, unless my last post forced a change in your opinion I wouldn't expect anything less.

That being said "nay sayers" and "believers" are not born, they are conditioned over time just as you seem to have been by what you've posted about yourself that I recall reading in your posts. (Don't worry you are not alone there are others.)
.


And there you are wrong. I was a believer, had read everything available about UFO's back in the early 60's (and there was little info around) then Von Daniken came along and I initially fell for it hook line and sinker. Then I read it again and came to totally different conclusions about things than he did. It was at that moment I changed, I didnt disbelieve the UFO people I just didnt believe them 100% and I decided that, as I had a lot of time and money on my hands I would take a look at some of the things, Von Daniken had looked at. I also took a look at Rosswell when we did a tour of the US, and as time mobved on I became totally sceptical, but made damed sure I would look at everything objectively and remotely before I made any decisions. Then at a very early UFO meeting in London I met 2 other people who helped me (Theyre dead now) who taught me lots of stuff.

I didnt become 'conditioned', as you state, it was pure logic (and the crap evidence presented by some loonies) that made me a sceptic. What sealed it for me was meeting Von Daniken and Billy Meier. With Von Daniken it was money and fame, that was all he was interested in. with Billy Meier it was different. I actually believe he saw something which confused him and he then created his hoaxes to justify what he saw, then he (and his very shrewd wife) realised the money that could be made. Meeting those two alarmed me. but also reinforced my thought and those ideas I had learned from my two old friends that remote rationality was the way forwards. It was around this time I also bumped into Barry King, mainly because my Mum lived near him and I found out what an idiot realy was.

I believe people are born naturally sceptical and what they hear at school and from their parents sets the way they look at things. But UFO's and ghosties and ghoulies are very esoteric things which attract those with enquiring minds.
Once the majority of those minds justify what they hear or see in their own minds they continue to search out people and things that agree with the way they think.
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Re: Fighter Jets Chase UFO

Postby IsaacKoi » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:04 am

Chorlton wrote: For every Nay sayer born there is equally a believer born as can easily be seen on places like ATS, OM and GLP.
They seem to be born with a total lack of logic and so desperatley need to BELIEVE there is something out there.


Am I overly optimistic in perceiving a general trend in favour of increased skepticism (or at least, which is probably a bit more limited, a decrease in completely unquestioning acceptance) regarding UFO photos/videos/"whistleblowers" on Internet forums in the last few years?

I think that the number and sophistication of UFO hoaxes (particularly the Drones hoax and the Haiti video hoax) have resulted in a decrease in the number of "Cool video :D " posts on Internet forums.

Of course, every time that I start getting a bit more optimistic I see another enthusiastic response to a pile of nonsense...

Oh well, we do what we can.

All the best,

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