Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

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Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby IsaacKoi » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:47 pm

I know quite a few members of RU are interested in some of the individuals covered by Mark Pilkington forthcoming book (and hopefully, at some point, the documentary) "Mirage Men". (The website for the documentary has a big photo of Rick Doty on the front page).

Given that interest, I thought I'd pop in and mention that:

(1) Amazon now has his book "Mirage Men" available to pre-order at the link below, with a publication date indicated of 29 July 2010:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1602398003


(2) Mark's blog has some information at the link below about a launch event for his book on 29 July 2010 near Russell Square tube, London at which we will be "dazzled by Flying saucer memorabilia, films, music, cakes and more".

http://miragemen.wordpress.com/2010/06/ ... nch-event/

I'm told by Mark that:

(a) The event open to the public.

(b) The "special preview of the [Mirage Men] film" mentioned at the above link is a ten minute clip of Rick Doty being interviewed.

(c) The cake mentioned at the above link "will be *very* special".


From the publisher's website:
http://www.constablerobinson.com/?secti ... _paperback
Seeking the truth about UFOs in America, Mark Pilkington and John Lundberg uncover a 60 year-old story stranger than any conspiracy thriller.

Through the fascinating account of their quest Mark Pilkington reveals the long history of UFOria and its parallels in little known tales from the murky worlds of espionage, psychological warfare and advanced military technology. Along the way he discovers that the truth about flying saucers is stranger and more complex than either the ufologists or debunkers would have us believe.

As he crossed the US meeting intelligence agents, disinformation specialists and UFO hunters Pilkington was confronted with a dizzying array of ever more outrageous claims and counter claims. As a result he began to suspect that, instead of covering up stories of crashed flying saucers, alien contacts and secret underground bases, the US intelligence agencies had actually been promoting them all along. Meanwhile he has to deal with his own uncertainties, the suspicions of the UFO community and a partner who is starting to believe that conspiracy theorists might be right after all.

With a fresh, funny and objective approach, Pilkington is the ideal guide to steer us through these strange territories, where nothing is quite as it seems and reality is just a matter of managing perceptions.


All the best,

Isaac
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby ryguy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:05 pm

Very much looking forward to reading Mark's book! Not positive I'll agree with everything, but I'm sure I'll be agreeing with more than I do when I read most other Ufology books..lol!!

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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:41 pm

I'm already on the fourth chapter, thanks to being sent a complimentary copy by the publisher :)
(I would have read more but I'm currently on holiday and haven't had as much time to read as I'd hoped)

I will be attending the official launch and hope to meet some of you there. Mark and John are great guys, so come along, it'll be a laugh.

Full review to come!
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby caryn » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:44 pm

Very much looking forward to reading my copy.....see you there for cake ;-)
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby ryguy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:52 pm

I'm so jealous - doesn't RU have some kind of "slush fund" that we can use to find my flight to the UK? :)
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:10 am

Haha! I wish mate.

Note to any wealthy investors reading this. You'd be much better served investing in an organisation with a track record of getting results than wasting all of your hard-earned on the likes of Scammers Inc.

Y'know, like Reality Uncovered :)
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby murnut » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:21 am

I'm very much interested in this book...and the somewhat delayed documentary
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby Chorlton » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:12 am

Im actually in London on that date.
Isaac, do you have any clue on the time of this? I dont know If Im going to be able to slip out of the Studio to see it but I could try.

I love this from the publishers blurb:

"as a result he began to suspect that, instead of covering up stories of crashed flying saucers, alien contacts and secret underground bases, the US intelligence agencies had actually been promoting them all along"

Wow something real there? Errrrrr no!. good grief most people knew that by the early 70's

This, once again harks back to something I posted a week or two ago. Everything goes round in circles. As every new group of Ufologists or brainboxes grows up, we, some of the people who have been doing this stuff for 40 years plus have to go about explaining it all over and over and over as these nitwits rediscover stuff that has been chewed over so much.I suspect Pilkingtons book is simply going to be all the stuff we already know written a different way.
Problem is, theres only so many ways you can make a cake (or a spotted dick)
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby Mark Pilkington » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:39 pm

As the 'nitwit' - thanks Chorlton, a good, underused word - responsible for this book, I'd like to say that yes there's always going to be a certain amount of reinventing the wheel going on, especially with a book written for a general audience who may not have had the privilege of spending too much of their time reading the UFO literature.

I was fully aware of this problem as I wrote the book and wouldn't have taken the time and energy to do so if I didn't think that there was a new UFO book to be written. I hope that even tired readers of UFO books will find the framing narrative – whereby John Lundberg and I interview some of the key surviving players in and victims of UFO-themed disinformation programmes – intriguing, and I feel that there's enough new material here to warrant their attention. Response so far, even from cynical ufological veterans, has been encouraging.

I've tried to reframe the historical parts of the book firmly within the context of Cold War espionage and counter-espionage, technology and counter-technology, drawing parallels to other operations, technologies and programmes that were analogous to the more explicitly UFO-themed variants. In doing so I uncovered a few things that I hadn't read or heard about before, despite being one of the aforementioned people who have read far too much UFO literature.

Finally, although initially reluctant to do so but at the publisher's insistence, by framing the story in a first person narrative - every word of it true by the way - I hope that I've been able to provide a glimpse inside the mindsets of those of us who have sought to explore this mirrored labyrinth.

I'm not a debunker - as readers will learn I've had my own puzzling sightings - nor do I make any claims to have 'solved' the UFO mystery, though I'm not convinced that there's much of a mystery left to be solved, but I do feel confident that Mirage Men is a fresh and worthwhile contribution to the overcrowded UFO bookshelf, one that provides some new leads and new perspectives for making sense of this fascinating and puzzling story.

Readers will have to judge for themselves of course, and I'll be more than happy to hear from them via the Mirage Men web site- http://miragemen.wordpress.com

Meanwhile, I hope some of you can make the launch event and if you do, please come and say hi.

Cheers
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby IsaacKoi » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:38 pm

Chorlton wrote:Im actually in London on that date.
Isaac, do you have any clue on the time of this? I dont know If Im going to be able to slip out of the Studio to see it but I could try.


Hi Chorlton,

At the link I posted above (pasted below for ease of reference), there is a flyer which gives the time for the event as "19.30 til late":

http://miragemen.wordpress.com/2010/06/ ... nch-event/

I'm optimisitic that I'll be able to go along for a chat and some cake (work, wife and diet permitting...).

As every new group of Ufologists or brainboxes grows up, we, some of the people who have been doing this stuff for 40 years plus have to go about explaining it all over and over and over as these nitwits rediscover stuff that has been chewed over so much.I suspect Pilkingtons book is simply going to be all the stuff we already know written a different way.


I'll let you know when I've obtained the book, but I think you are almost certainly doing Mark an injustice here...

I don't know if you are familiar with Mark Pilkington's name but he's been around the ufological block a few times. He's the editor of my second favourite book on crop circles and has written quite a bit on UFO/fortean for various publications. Although his publishers say his book is written in the tradition of books by Jon Ronson I think Mark is much more a participant in the UFO community he is writing about than tends to be the case with Ronson's books. I hope that his book has the humour of a book by Jon Ronson but the sort of depth of research that is more akin to another author that springs to mind in the same sort of tradition - Jim Schnabel.

I presume that the book draws on the material gained from filming Doty and others for the proposed "Mirage Men" documentary. I went to a talk Mark gave a couple of years about some of that material and, while not Earth shattering, there were certainly some interesting anecdotes about Doty and other colourful characters that I haven't heard elsewhere.

I actually had started pulling together some material on Doty and others before hearing about Mark's project. I stopped when I learnt about the "Mirage Men" project since I didn't want to reinvent the wheel. I may pick that topic up again after reading Mark's book...


Mark - Since you are in this thread at the moment, I wonder if I can ask you whether you will be selling copies of your book at the event at SELFS tomorrow before the book's official release? If so, I'll be tempted to change my plans for tomorrow evening and come along.


All the best,

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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby Chorlton » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:44 am

Thank you Isaac for the timings. at 19.30 I doubt Ill be able to make it. I will be involved in a heavy recording session for a band. The afternoon is for the light stuff but we will get into some heavy duty stuff after dinner which will probably run through the night.

Yes Im aware of some of Pilkingtons stuff. But this book will be in my opinion, nothing new, just old stuff rehashed. If there was indeed any ground breaking stuff in it surely the world would be aware of it by now? what with pre publication copies being sent out?, There would be alarming News Broadcasts, Lundberg and Pilkington would have been arrested for disclosing secrets etc etc. But they havent been, so one can only deduce there's nothing new. Yes I suppose looking at something from another angle might show a different perspective, but after all these years, there is nothing new. What we have are the same old 'suspects' wheeled out for interviews. Even old Gabe Valdez? still desperatly trying to turn Dulce into a Tourist attraction. Even John Lear cant do that.

I was asked years ago to write a book or even books on some of the stuff I had, and my point was "What? write a book about finding nothing" ?
Theres just only so many ways you can rehash old stuff, and the quote "drawing paralells" is so old and corny its laughable. You only 'draw paralells' when you cant get the real information, so you use comparative analysis, its old hat.
Lets just put it straight. No one in Authority, or in any position of responsibility or in the Intelligence business is going to disclose anything, or tell you anything or even intimate anything, at least in the UK anyway (thats actually if you accept there is anything to disclose in the first place, which there isnt), because its more than their job and in some cases their life is worth.
So who has been 'Interviewed for this book?, other than the same old names and faces, and why does PIlkington and Lundberg think they are going to get anything more out of them than others have got? because they paid them more for the Interviews ?? HAHAHAHA Sorry, thats funny.

I had several conversations and talks, over many dinners, with Admiral Lord Hill-Norton.
Peter, though a great advocate for disclosure with his belief in UFO's openly admitted that, if there were such visitations from 'out there', in a place like the UK and Europe it would be in practice, impossible to keep it secret. If indeed there actually were any secret visitations, no one would dare to say anything for fear of their life. He also suggested that he did indeed consider a lot of reports of UFO's were probably nothing more than tests of secret stuff, missiles, UAV's, propulsion machines and new designs for aircraft, he also stuck to his belief that we were being visited though, but I could never get him to enlarge on this. he was a great bloke but got a bit loopy as he got older (dont we all :D ).
So am I excited about yet ANOTHER book on UFO's?. Nope. Its just another money making attempt. Does it reveal anything?, anything that decent researchers dont already know? I doubt it. Yep the sheeple will buy it, same as they rush out and watch the latest Star Trek Film or dash out and buy the Avatar DVD hoping it will bolster their sad belief in life on other planets. UFO books are usually good earners as its simply a subject that cannot be 100% dissproved so the writers can get away with almost anything.
To me its some more folks on the UFO, Conspiracy, Whispers in Dark corners, Gravy train.
And lets also say that if the book/film was really that good, actually did reveal anything, it wouldnt need a publicised launch.
Just my opinion to which I am entitled. I am sorry if my opinions annoy people. But would you want me any other way?
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby Mark Pilkington » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:03 am

Issac - yes books will be available at the talk tonight - come along if you can.

You're a cynical old nitwit Chorlton aren't you?!
Shame you never wrote your book, could have saved me the bother seeing as you knew it all already 8)

For the record nobody was paid a penny for interviews for the film, we did this off our own backs on the lowest of budgets, and if you think the majority of authors make their fortunes writing books then you're genuinely delusional. I make my money working for MI5, as anyone in the UFO field knows.

As Isaac says I've been around the fortean and UFO block a few times, so I broadly know what's what and who's who.

With regards to the UFO issue, I don't think that there are any great secrets about extraterrestrial visitation being kept by our government or that of any other country, which isn't to say that we haven't been visited, only that if we have I don't think those in power have any more clue about it, or what it means, than you or I.

However, *belief* in the myths spun out of the UFO field have penetrated to the highest levels of military and government in many nations, including our own, and that is a point worth making as it could one day become a problem.

it's also very clear that some people within the military have, since the earliest days of the UFO era, deliberately exploited these beliefs, in the process generating new ones, and that's what the book's about. While this may be old hat to hardened UFO hacks, it's not generally recognised by the rest of the world (i.e. 99.99% of the population) and I hope that a fresh perspective like this, presented in an entertaining and readable fashion, may be what's required to regenerate interest in an endemically hoax-contaminated and, sadly, mostly moribund field.

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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby IsaacKoi » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:22 pm

Chorlton wrote:If there was indeed any ground breaking stuff in it surely the world would be aware of it by now? what with pre publication copies being sent out?, There would be alarming News Broadcasts, Lundberg and Pilkington would have been arrested for disclosing secrets etc etc. But they havent been, so one can only deduce there's nothing new.


I don't think Mark has claimed it includes "ground breaking stuff" and, as I mentioned above, I found his talk in 2007 interesting but not Earth shattering.

I think it is a matter of expectations. I've read over 1,000 UFO books and no longer expect any new book to include "THE ANSWER" (which, as we all know, is in fact "42").

I do, however, expect Mark's book to be more interesting (and more likely to contain some new information and insight) than the general run of UFO books that are churned out each year and also containing more of a sense of humour.

What we have are the same old 'suspects' wheeled out for interviews.


But there are so many questions for some individuals (including Doty, Kit Green, Ron P and others) that haven't been answered previously or for that matter, as far as I can tell, even asked... I'm hoping that Mark's book includes some answers by those people to some of the previously unanswered/unasked questions.

While I'd be interested in the answers, I doubt many other people would be. I certainly doubt the answers would result in the presses of newspapers being held while front page stories were written.


Yep the sheeple will buy it, same as they rush out and watch the latest Star Trek Film


Hey, I liked the latest Star Trek film...

or dash out and buy the Avatar DVD


Why anyone would do that is one of life's little mysteries.


UFO books are usually good earners


Mmm. Ask Jenny Randles about this. Ask Dick Hall. (The latter is a rhetorical suggestion - he is now deceased).

Quite a few of the more sensible people that write about UFOs could be making considerably more money doing other things.

All the best,

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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby Chorlton » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:00 pm

Mark Pilkington wrote:Issac - yes books will be available at the talk tonight - come along if you can.

You're a cynical old nitwit Chorlton aren't you?!

Ive been called a lot worse. However I put UFO authors into the same cart as those in the music business who make cover recordings. If you cant do better than whats been done before DONT DO IT. because adding is actually subtracting
Shame you never wrote your book, could have saved me the bother seeing as you knew it all already 8)
And probably did before you were born, but as others have probably already written what you have, why bother? Your time, as you suggest, could have been saved.
For the record nobody was paid a penny for interviews for the film,

Sorry, I dont believe you. Simples.

and if you think the majority of authors make their fortunes writing books then you're genuinely delusional.

I would suspect, in my travels, that Ive met more authors than you could shake a stick at, however I have yet to meet a published author who is living in a cardboard box under Waterloo station, other than vanity authors.
However I look forwards to the announcement that you will be donating all royalties from the book and film (after expenses) to charity. I mean you are doing it for altruistic motives of getting the info out to the people......arent you?

I make my money working for MI5, as anyone in the UFO field knows.

Whoopee for you, Then again James Casbolt said he worked for 5 or 6 and look where that got him, though I would suggest anyone who publicly states they work for 5 or 6 does a lot less than they actually let on, and know an awfull lot less than they think they do. In the 70's, I amongst others in the music business due to our relatively easy access to certain countries and our even easier access to some of their VIP's was contacted by the Security Services to assist them. From me they got 2 words, the last being 'Off'. Establishment a--holes.
So I broadly know what's what and who's who.

I would suggest you actually dont, other than the people with higher profiles. There are many many people in this and other countries who keep their heads down and just get on with their research. Apart from which Ive been around for over 40 years, and you know dick about me?. I would also postulate you also are totally ignorant of he who is responsible for an awfull lot of cropcircles in this country?.
which isn't to say that we haven't been visited, only that if we have I don't think those in power have any more clue about it, or what it means, than you or I.


Firstly, you know nothing about anything I know of, so please dont suggest you do. Im old and get pissed off easy.
But Im amazed that an alleged 'sceptic' would even consider the implications of saying he thinks we 'might' have been visited? Or is that simply hedging your bets?.
For the record I think we have never, ever, been visited or are even likely to be.
However, *belief* in the myths spun out of the UFO field have penetrated to the highest levels of military and government in many nations, including our own, and that is a point worth making as it could one day become a problem.

A point worth making but a point based on what evidence? a few low ranking toilet cleaners? Or are you a supporter of the Tim Good timeline of doom and despair?, and what problem are you alleging could befall us 'one day'?. Makes good reading but there is simply no substance to the allegation. I would also suggest you are being incredibly disingenuous to those in the upper echelons of the military, in your assumptions of their beliefs and of what you assume they do or dont know.
I had many dinners and chats with Admiral Hill-Norton.
Peter, whilst outwardly suggesting that his military friends did know things, privately concurred that, deep down he really thought they knew nothing, basically because there was no actual empirical evidence to show otherwise. Information that he would have been privvy to, had there been any.
What he wanted was more openness so if ET did suddenly appear, there would be no secrecy, but he, like many others was confused by the sheer mass of alleged sightings of mysterious phenomena but was also bright enough to realise that there was an amazing amount of natural phenomena in this world that we did not understand that could be responsible for that phenomena.
it's also very clear that some people within the military have, since the earliest days of the UFO era, deliberately exploited these beliefs,
Nothing new there, whats wrong with blaming UFO's for a new plane test or a new experiment?
in the process generating new ones, and that's what the book's about.

Oh OK, rewriting the obvious. I must remember to rewrite Chariots of the Gods next year, lots of people probably havent read it. Yep got it OK. After that// Well The Bible according to Chorlton should take me a few weeks.
While this may be old hat to hardened UFO hacks, it's not generally recognised by the rest of the world (i.e. 99.99% of the population)


Based on what evidence? Your say so? Then again why do you think you are the god given designated person to tell the world YOUR truths? because thats all they are. Your truths. Your truths or interpretations of others statements.
Your claims of 99.9% of the world being ignorant of whats going on is also being seriously critical of the mass of people on this earth. Maybe its not because they dont shout and jump up and down in alarm, maybe they are rational enough to recognise the simple fact that nothing is actually going on, other than in the minds of conspiracy freaks and those who wish to write books to make money out of them?. Occams Razor old son Occams razor.
and I hope that a fresh perspective like this, presented in an entertaining and readable fashion, may be what's required to regenerate interest in an endemically hoax-contaminated and, sadly, mostly moribund field.

Firstly that last para sounds like a handout from your Agent. Might work out there but not in here.

But A fresh perspective? using all the old hacks being wheeled out to continue their rantings and ravings? How can that be any fresh perspective. Its actually called 'Raking over old coals' .

Sorry, Ive been around too long. You are just another in the long line of people professing to offer nothing more than is already out there. You wish to be 'The Sun' of UFO books, informing the great unwashed as to that which they are ignorant of, yet failing to prove they are ignorant of it in the first place.
I'll stick to Jeffrey Archer, at least he admits he is a scumbag. Not that I'm suggesting for one minute that you are. It was simply a turn of phrase.
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Re: Mirage Men and cake - 29 July 2010 (London)

Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:43 pm

Bloody hell Chorlton, you're turning into the Spitting Image Norman Tebbit caricature.

I must admit I found your comment that you believed Mark was lying to be well out of order. You don't know the guy, yet essentially you are accusing him of something based on no evidence whatsoever - just your gut instinct. You are entitled to your opinion, but if I were you I'd start taking some indigestion tablets. Your gut seems to be playing up.

I was interviewed for the film and I certainly didn't get paid. Are you going to accuse me of lying now?
I've met Mark and John several times and they are both great blokes. They certainly don't deserve the treatment you've been giving Mark.
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