An airship ??

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An airship ??

Postby JayKew » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:07 pm

I was doing some archive research on my home city of Liverpool today and came across this.

I think its late 20s or early 30s movie footage and Im sure its not photo shopped.

An airship ??

Can anyone do any work on it ??

http://inacityliving.piczo.com/?g=42204765&cr=7

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Re: An airship ??

Postby JayKew » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:14 pm

oops wrong link .... silly me lol

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Liv ... Tf4M3H9QbE

Hangs head in shame lol

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Re: An airship ??

Postby astrophotographer » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:56 pm

Looks like a Zepplin or imperial airship.

http://airshipsonline.com/airships/imperial/index.html
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Re: An airship ??

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:05 am

the Government sponsored team built the designated R101 at Cardington.


You should be seeing more airships flying out of Cardington in the coming months as Hybrid Air Vehicles does some flight testing of their scale model airship in prep for building a new airship for the US Army. I am heading to Cardington in the coming weeks as the team I am working on is developing the autonomous guidance & flight controls for this Long Endurance Multi-sensor Vehicle (LEMV).

We will build and fly the 320 foot airship in Tillamook Oregon next year.
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Re: An airship ??

Postby Access Denied » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:11 am

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:I am heading to Cardington in the coming weeks as the team I am working on is developing the autonomous guidance & flight controls for this Long Endurance Multi-sensor Vehicle (LEMV).

No you’re not, Blue Bear Systems Research (a spin off of DERA) is…

http://www.bbsr.co.uk/lemv

Under contract to Hybrid Air Vehicles BBSR will deliver:

  • Critical vehicle management and flight control algorithms
  • Flight demonstrator trials to de-risk full-scale development
  • Aircraft modelling and flight simulation
  • Essential systems integration support

And whoever gets this job will be flying it…

http://www.northropgrumman.com/careers/job_search.html

Pilot Test
Posted: Oct 13, 2010
Requisition ID: 102613464
Business Sector: Technical Services
Location: United States-Arizona-Sierra Vista
US Citizenship Required for this Position: Yes
Relocation Assistance: No relocation assistance available
Clearance Type: Secret
Number of Openings: 2
Shift: Multiple

Description

The Air Vehicle Pilot/UAS Operator is responsible for flight, payload, and data link control of the Long Endurance Multi INT Vehicle (LEMV) from a UGCS (Universal Ground Control Station). The Pilot will also be required to ferry the air ship from the air ship's internal flight platform. The Pilot must have a technical background in electronics, computer science, aviation discipline. Has knowledge of engineering principles, theories, and concepts. The LEMV Operator will be also knowledgeable in radio control procedures, sensor theory of operations, data link theory, aerodynamics, aircraft systems, air navigation, general aviation procedures, and FAA Regulations. He/she performs: maintenance on support equipment, emplacement of flight equipment, data link operations, launch and recovery operations, range flight operations, and displacement of flight equipment.

Test Pilot 3 must have previous deployment experience. This system and associated personnel will deploy. Test Pilot 3 must have a FAA Commercial and Instrument rating. Must pass a FAA Class II physical. Must be able to obtain a Secret Clearance. Previous US Army deployment experience desired. This is a NEW and exciting program. Request that selected Pilots remain on the program for two years.

Qualifications

Basic Qualifications:

UAS Operator/Deployment experience/6 years experience/ Commercial FAA rating with instrument.

Preferred Qualifications:

US Army deployment experience.

:roll:
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Re: An airship ??

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:05 pm

Access Denied wrote:
You Can Call Me Ray wrote:I am heading to Cardington in the coming weeks as the team I am working on is developing the autonomous guidance & flight controls for this Long Endurance Multi-sensor Vehicle (LEMV).

No you’re not, Blue Bear Systems Research (a spin off of DERA) is…


Dude, you are simply amazing in your arrogance.

You think because of something you read on the internet, that you know more than me, a person working on the project? Lay your ego aside for a bit, AD....you are really making yourself into a big ahole.

Yes, BBSR is on contract in this project. But the Vehicle Management System (the entire responsibility for ALL of the autonomous control laws) lies with Northrop-Grumman, El Segundo. In fact, I am the flight control system architect for the VMS... the guy developing the entire architecture database that relates the operational model to the (design) functional and physical models.

In fact, several BBSR folks were just in town this past week, so we could review with them what they are expected to do, and continue to show them the guidance and control architectures that WE (NGC) expect them to perform to. It has to do with re-use AD. Since BBSR has never developed a fully autonomous system for military use (as we have), we are actually using a GREAT deal of VMS software from several of our other programs (UCAS being the heaviest re-use).

Rest assured, AD, we are in charge...despite whatever any marketing blurbs you read on the net. BBSR will be supplying select algorithms for select phases of flight that meet our (NGC) requirements and architectural design.

And I don't suppose you will apologize for being an arrogant ahole on this either? No...not your style.

And whoever gets this job will be flying it…


More AD conclusions based on partial information, eh AD? The Reality is that this is an "optionally manned" vehicle, because we intend to man it for ferry flights in and out of theatre. But if you were able to read the customer requirements, like I have and have analyzed, you would know that the PRIMARY mission is s 21 day AUTONOMOUS mission....over the skies of Afghanistan.

AD, you really are a piece of work. I am working on the program, yet you have some strange need to present yourself as having more facts. That is lunacy.

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Re: An airship ??

Postby Access Denied » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:16 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Since BBSR has never developed a fully autonomous system for military use...

Oh really?

Meet LEMV: the first of a new generation of advanced military airship (12 July 2010)
http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/t ... 18.article

Image
HAV Ltd has tested an autonomous flight system on one of its test-bed air vehicles

...the designers of the LEMV aren’t starting from scratch. Indeed, the vehicle will be based heavily on the Sky Cat, an advanced airship design refined over decades by UK firm Hybrid Air Vehicles Ltd (HAV).

[...]

According to Taylor, the technology is also the only credible candidate for long-endurance surveillance, a key capability in modern defence strategies. ‘Northrop Grumman build the most sophisticated UAV in the world - the Global Hawk. Why have they suddenly elected to come to us? The answer is simple: there is no other way to do it. The longest current endurance you calculate in hours but you don’t talk weeks, the only other thing you could contemplate would be a satellite.’

[...]

During operation the LEMV will typically fly in either an autonomous or remotely operated mode. However, because of its huge size, it has to be flown through civil airspace to conflict zones, which means that it must also have the capability to be manually piloted.

The flight control algorithms that will enable the vehicle to switch between these different modes are being developed by another UK firm - Blue Bear Systems Research.

Also based at Cardington, Blue Bear, which was spun out of the now defunct Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA) in 2000, has plenty of experience developing flight control systems for fixed-wing UAVS. But according to one of the firm’s systems engineers Ken Wahren, the LEMV has presented an entirely new set of challenges. ‘Controlling an air-ship is much more like controlling a ship than fast fixed wing aircraft’ he said. ‘This means that things happen a lot more slowly but there’s also a certain inevitability. You can get away with data rates that are a lot lower but you have a lot more systems to manage and they are distributed right around the airship. Managing all of those subsystems to produce the desired control on the vehicle is quite a challenge.’

Perhaps you owe Mr. Taylor and Mr. Wahren an apology?




P.S. Don't send me any more profane PMs. Rest assured I will be making an effort to verify your claims next week.
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Re: An airship ??

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:22 pm

Access Denied wrote:P.S. Don't send me any more profane PMs. Rest assured I will be making an effort to verify your claims next week.


And you let me know when you are ready to apologize. Splitting hairs like you have, I am sure you will not be too interested in doing that once you come to find I have told the truth. Sheesh...the nerve of some people... telling me what he thinks my job is?

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Re: An airship ??

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:34 pm

‘Northrop Grumman build the most sophisticated UAV in the world - the Global Hawk. Why have they suddenly elected to come to us? The answer is simple: there is no other way to do it. The longest current endurance you calculate in hours but you don’t talk weeks, the only other thing you could contemplate would be a satellite.’


Marketing hype. And this is your problem, AD...you cannot distinguish marketing hype in what you read from what might really be going on. You think that what you read, because you are the one citing it, must be the whole truth.

In point of fact, Northrop-Grumman does make an awful lot of satellites. And if I could share some of the more "private moments" of what is going on with this program, you would understand how some folks doing a lot of talking about 21 days are making errors that would never allow it to last 21 days.

But yes, I know...you think you know it all, don't you AD?
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Re: An airship ??

Postby AussieMike » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:31 pm

Check out this baby.......

Image

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5025388/

"The full-size station in our grand vision is 2 miles across," John Powell, the company's founder, told MSNBC.com. "But that's down the road a bit. We take baby steps."


Can you imagine what the full sized version would look like......2 miles across.....
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Re: An airship ??

Postby ComfortablyNumb » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:53 am

JayKew wrote:An airship ??


Yep.

"Shot of tower on building (Liver Building?) with dome top. R-100 Airship appears flying from behind the dome; and on to right."

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=78443

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R100
http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviati ... %20100.htm
http://www.aht.ndirect.co.uk/sheds/Cardington.htm

I assume they flew the transatlantic route from Cardington in a north westerly direction that would have taken them over Liverpool. Unless they stopped to pick up passengers?

Edit: seems the routes were flexible.

http://www.aht.ndirect.co.uk/airships/i ... %20Map.gif

Could the footage be part of the record for the duration flight talked about here:

"...She Was built ror the Air 1!inistry by the Airship Guarantee Company, a SUbSidiary o~ Vickers Ltd., at Howden,
Yorks., and was launched on December loth 1929. Since then she has carried out flying trials amounting to over loo hours, including a duration test or approximately 54 hours, mostly in thick cloud..."

http://www.aht.ndirect.co.uk/learn/Pres ... 0/r100.txt

The Airships are such an interesting topic, I never realised this 'world' existed. It must have been amazing to be able to travel this way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Airship_Scheme
http://www.aht.ndirect.co.uk/airships/i ... index.html
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Re: An airship ??

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:02 pm

Because I know Tom has crossed the line in this thread, and he is attempting to disparage my professional character herein, I am replying here to seek crystal clarity from Tom about what he thinks he is "falsifying" about what I said:



Access Denied wrote:
You Can Call Me Ray wrote:I am heading to Cardington in the coming weeks as the team I am working on is developing the autonomous guidance & flight controls for this Long Endurance Multi-sensor Vehicle (LEMV).

No you’re not, Blue Bear Systems Research (a spin off of DERA) is…


Direct question: What, precisely, do you believe your are falsifying about my statement here, Tom?

1) Do you think you are falsifying my statement that I will be traveling to Cardington? Because if so, I presume copies of my tickets as well as some photos of me with the HAV and BBSR teams would prove you are not falsifying this.
2) Do you think you are falsifying my statement that I am working on the LEMV autonomous guidance and flight controls team? Because if you think you are falsifying that, perhaps you should know that the entire LEMV project is being run out of the Northrop-Grumman, Melbourne, Florida, division, and they have, indeed, issued an Inter-sector Work Order (IWO) to my group in El Segundo for all the autonomous VMS work. HAV is the vehicle contractor, and BBSR, while under subcontract to HAV, are taking direction from NG-El Segundo on Guidance, Navigation, and Control (GN&C) work.

These are facts. So in your own interest, perhaps you should make clear what you think you are falsifying about what I said. And what next? Do you think you will next try to falsify that I teach aerospace engineering at Cal Poly, Pomona? Go ahead and try.


Access Denied wrote:
You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Since BBSR has never developed a fully autonomous system for military use...

Oh really?

Meet LEMV: the first of a new generation of advanced military airship (12 July 2010)


Once again, please clearly identify what it is you think you are falsifying. Because that statement that I made is correct. At best I could clarify that statement by putting the letters "US" between the words "for" and "military use". But even without that, the statement is true. LEMV is the FIRST airship that HAV, and thereby their subcontractor BBSR, will work on that will be delivered for US military use. Using the current contract for LEMV to try and falsify what I was stating is a non-starter...because the vehicle has not even been built or flown, much less delivered.

So once again, what is it that you think you are falsifying? I really would like to know!

Access Denied wrote:Rest assured I will be making an effort to verify your claims next week.


That is some pretty sloppy form, right there. Don't you think it is a better idea to do this before you start casting aspersions on my professional character and insinuating that I am lying about something? Seriously, AD, you have crossed the line on this one. And oh yes, I am afraid you will indeed be apologizing to me for this little bit of inadvisable rhetoric.

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Re: An airship ??

Postby Access Denied » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:53 pm

Ray, after I pointed out BBSR is developing the flight controls you said…

“Yes, BBSR is on contract in this project. But the Vehicle Management System (the entire responsibility for ALL of the autonomous control laws) lies with Northrop-Grumman, El Segundo.”

And then you said…

“BBSR will be supplying select algorithms for select phases of flight that meet our (NGC) requirements and architectural design.”

Can you be more specific? What phases of flight will BBSR be providing the algorithms for and which phases of flight will you personally be providing the algorithms for?

Recall that you claimed…

“I am the flight control system architect for the VMS... the guy developing the entire architecture database that relates the operational model to the (design) functional and physical models.”

That is what I’ll be attempting to verify with officials tomorrow.

Thank you,

Tom

P.S. I already know the LMEV program is being run out of Florida.
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Re: An airship ??

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:21 am

Access Denied wrote:Ray, after I pointed out BBSR is developing the flight controls you said…

“Yes, BBSR is on contract in this project. But the Vehicle Management System (the entire responsibility for ALL of the autonomous control laws) lies with Northrop-Grumman, El Segundo.”


Which is true.
And then you said…

“BBSR will be supplying select algorithms for select phases of flight that meet our (NGC) requirements and architectural design.”

Can you be more specific? What phases of flight will BBSR be providing the algorithms for and which phases of flight will you personally be providing the algorithms for?


Why do you think you deserve answers from me, after what you did? Besides, you have not even answered my direct question. Answer that, and apologize, and I might think about answering your questions.

Recall that you claimed…

“I am the flight control system architect for the VMS... the guy developing the entire architecture database that relates the operational model to the (design) functional and physical models.”

That is what I’ll be attempting to verify with officials tomorrow.


And do you think I am lying? (That is another direct question, BTW).

Tell you what. The article you mentioned named Ken Wahren. He should be back in Cardington for work tomorrow, seeing as how he was here all last week in meetings with me. Why don't you call and ask Ken, directly, whose CORE architecture database (DODAF-compliant, no less) he was reviewing on his flight home. Ask him the name of the NGC engineer he was working with in El Segundo last week, modeling the electrical power control system. He also took an action item to review all the requirements developed for the VMS and GN&C in that database. Ask him who developed all of those requirements.

And then come back here and apologize for being wrong.

And oh... if you have any other questions about me actually doing the work I say I do, you can also ask around AFRL who from NGC will be working the new Autonomous Flight Safety System project. Ask them who is going to be the lead system architect on that project. I'll be briefing AFRL, USAF, and members of the FAA and NASA for the kickoff of that program towards the end of this month. Go ahead....since you have so many doubts about me.
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Last edited by You Can Call Me Ray on Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An airship ??

Postby Access Denied » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:51 am

Ray, I did answer your question but you avoided answering mine. To be absolutely clear, are you or are you not personally developing the autonomous flight control algorithms? That is what you implied originally and that’s what I will be attempting to verify, not modeling the electrical power system as you claim now.

Also, the Autonomous Flight Safety System (AFSS) developed by NASA is already flying so how can you be the “lead system architect” for this “new” project?

NASA Sounding Rocket Launched New Technologies (Spetember 21, 2010)
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops/news/subtecIII.html

“This is the third successful flight of the AFSS. The first test flight dates back to 2006. The system will go through additional flights and testing on the path to become flight certified.”
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