Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

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Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:06 am

According to the following headline, we might as well all shut up shop and go home. What's the point of arguing against alien flying saucer's when the evidence proves we're all wrong?

From the bastion of truth and integrity that is Michael Salla's website:
World business leaders told flying saucers are real & extraterrestrials exist

Alrighty then.

Excerpt:
At five thousand dollars a ticket, some business leaders got more than they bargained for when they attended the first day of the Global Competitiveness Forum (GCF) being held in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. They were told flying saucers are real, and they better start thinking about the business implications of extraterrestrial life and technologies. Convened each year by the Saudi Arabian General Investment Authority, the GCF brings together business and political leaders to discuss ways of promoting business competitiveness. For the first time at its annual conference, the GCF held a panel discussing UFOs and extraterrestrial life. Titled “Learning from Outer Space” the panel comprised five speakers who all endorsed the view that extraterrestrial life is real, and has many implications for the world as we know it.


Those speakers were Zoaghloul El-Naggar, Stanton Friedman, Michio Kaku, Nick Pope and Jacques Vallee. We'll come to them in a sec, but first this little nugget.

The panel was held on January 23, and was a “main plenary” session meaning all GCF participants were able to attend and hear what the experts had to say about UFOs and extraterrestrial life. Up to 1000 participants included business and political elites such as former British and Canadian Prime Ministers, Tony Blair and Jean Chretien; Jim Albaugh, President and CEO of Boeing; Andy Bird, chairman of Walt Disney International; Jared Cohen, Director of Google ideas, and many others. The advice they got was that the issue of extraterrestrial life is real, and they better start paying attention to the business implications.


Do you like the way Salla has worded the above paragraph as much as I do? Being "able to attend" and actually attending are two completely different things! Nothing like hyperbole to make a point when facts alone don't.

Those business implications sound a bit ominous, don't they? More of that further below.

The article continues:
[the speakers] made compelling cases for the existence of living beings elsewhere in the galaxy, drawing upon empirical evidence, religious theology and logical reasoning.


I'm sure they did. I'd love to know what the empirical evidence was and whose logic they were using...

Mr. Friedman opened his remarks with a bold statement, “Flying saucers are real!” and this summed up the perspective of the panel members. Mr. Pope explored the potential business implications of outer space, such as the profitability of alien branding or sponsorship.
While El-Naggar was also convinced of their existence, he raised the interesting point that it may not be ethical to spend resources trying to contact alien societies when we still face war and poverty in our own society.


Has Nick Pope been appointed marketing manager of Scammers Inc? He's already jumping ahead and envisioning The Alpha Centauri Megamind Association as sponsors of the 2020 Olympics. What does he base their existence on in the first place? Oh, that's right. Stanton Friedman says Flying Saucers are real so it MUST be true.

Remember, this is the same Stanton Friedman who played an integral role in getting the Roswell Hoax off the ground. If there is one person who Scammers Inc really should be thankful for, he's the guy.

Unbelievable. At least El-Naggar appears to be normal and wants to concentrate on issues that really matter.

We find the most telling point to come out of this event is in a comment made by none other than Jacques Vallée, namely:

Mr. Vallee encouraged more academics to analyze the evidence. However, on behalf of his successful Venture Capital fund, he said, “We are not ready to invest in this type of research, but we think that somebody should.”


Music to Scammers Inc ears! You see, they [Scammers Inc] are the very people who have been working on constructing the single biggest and most successful meme of the last forty years. The Exopolitics movement have sprung up largely because of the lie invented by the scammers, and other ufologists and various hangers-on have created a career out of something that was born in the heads of this very profitable group of people.

They don't need to go to seminars or conventions, or write books and make films. All they need is a steady stream of willing investors to come through their doors in the mistaken belief that their money will be put to good use. People like those in the Exopolitics "Movement", Ufologists and certain Internet forums do a fantastic marketing job on behalf of the scammers in that regard, and it's all for free!

More fool them? Absolutely, for believing in something that comes with the attachment of zero evidence but a huge amount of wishful thinking and dreams of a better place.

More to come on that score, but for now take a look at the picture below, a picture that was presented at the talk/convention/gathering of the bewildered and is being hailed by the exo-ufo crowd as some kind of holy document. Take a look at the picture and tell me any problems there may be with it.
(Click the image for the full-sized version)

Image

Let's hear your thoughts (on this whole story, not just the picture!) The best comments will be used in a forthcoming article on the subject and your name will (unless stated otherwise) be added to the article as a contributor.

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby jacksarfatti » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:30 am

The event in Riyadh is very important politically. Forget Salla and Webre. They have nothing to do with it. I know a lot about what is happening behind the scenes here, but it is not public information. Wake up and smell the coffee. Look carefully at http://www.gcf.org.sa/en/About-GCF/Partners/ look who the sponsors are. This is big business.
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby ryguy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:42 am

I think the fact that it's big business is exactly what Steve's point is. :-)
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:46 am

Indeed it is Ryan :)

Also, the "flying saucer" part of the event in Saudi was on the first day of a four day event and lasted only one hour and fifteen minutes. The main sponsor's sponsored the entire event and not just that small section of it.

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby jacksarfatti » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:28 am

Also, the title "Case closed to rational thinking" is rhetoric and really has nothing to do with the reality here. In fact perhaps this should be called "Reality Covered Up"? [-X
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:57 am

Hi Steve.

interesting stuff, i personally have no doubt that life exists elsewhere in the universe but in what form i have no idea, but "flying saucers"?, now from my (admittedly not expert) understanding of physics, aerodynamics etc, a saucer is not exactly the greatest of shapes for any sort of flying craft.

now obviously they may just be using that term vaguely but using that term is inviting scorn before they even get started.

i started off as a believer due to my love of sci fi and technology etc but that was many years ago, i would read many books, magazines and watch documentaries etc long before the internet age but in that time could only take these things at face value as i was young and couldn't really do any research to check these claims out and probably didn't know any better!.

i lost interest in the paranormal/ufo subjects for quite a few years due to many things although i did read the odd book and watch the odd documentary, i only got a permanent internet connection about 4 years ago for gaming purposes as id had no real need before then, it was my interest in stealth planes and looking for secret tech that eventually led me to ATS and other sites of their nature and back to the ufo/paranormal arena.

i started catching up on all the stories that id had interest in in my youth like roswell, rendelsham, area 51 and the disclosure project etc etc only to find that these had all been ripped apart and almost every one of the people that i once thought were credible had been exposed as liars, frauds charlatans and con artists.

also by this time i was far older, wiser and more knowledgeable on most things so reality had really dawned, not only that but the leaps in technology over the last few years added to the huge reach and easy access of the internet has made it quite obvious that very little to absolutely nothing is visiting us, almost every person in the developed world now carries a phone with decent quality video/photographic capabilities and with internet access and these have been around for a long time but yet we still cant get one decent picture/video of any of these alleged craft that are allegedly invading our airspace all over the world at an allegedly alarming rate!.

it would be absolutely impossible for any government to stop the spread of anything on the internet, things of interest go worldwide in minutes (wikileaks as example) so how come we have nothing on all these alleged alien craft and alleged abductions?, well i think the absence again is speaking for itself.......

so in light of this how can these guys claim that anything is real when there is basically zero substantial evidence of anything other than misidentifications, hoaxes and outright lies to make money.

looking back im a bit embarrassed by all the things i used to believe, and having re watched some old documentaries the bs just stands out a mile.

i recently watched a lot of episodes of penn and tellers bulls**t tv show and various other similar docs and what really struck me is about the type of people that seem to believe in anything they are told and make claims of alien abductions etc, most of them (not all) seem to be awkward social misfits and/or have some sort of emotional disorder and seem to be trying to gain social acceptance or make themselves feel special by making these claims.

now before i get flamed or anything im not trying to stereotype or put these people down, i actually felt for some of them and this is making me more annoyed at all the people that take advantage of them for personal gain etc like the people we are discussing here.

nick pope is a guy that irks me somewhat, i have no problem with people making money or writing books or whatever they want but its the way they go about it thats most irritating, irresponsible and damaging to the subject and people that want to believe, for me nick pope uses his ex position in a way that in my opinion he should not do, ive seen various interviews where he intentionally makes out that he and his former employers (m.o.d) know far more about ufos than i suspect he/they actually do but then uses his non disclosure agreement as a get out of jail card when pressed for info, but seriously, if this guy was such an advocate of truth and disclosure as he would have us believe then he would become a whistle blower and tell all, but again my opinion is he knows nothing except how to use his old position to make easy money.

now my conclusion on a lot of these ex military/government people that make claims years after they retire is that its for two main reasons, firstly its the easiest way to supplement their pensions and secondly i think it makes them feel important again when civilian life dawns on them!.

thanks

rich
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby jacksarfatti » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:29 am

Rich whoever you are, you display an astounding lack of knowledge of the relevant facts. Believe what you like. However, I assure you that powerful people are forging ahead at the highest levels of world governments and multi-national corporations. Do not be put off by the idiocies of the exo-pols they have no power and no influence.
What is really happening is for example at http://100yearstarshipstudy.com as well as my own http://stardrive.org for up to the minute monitoring of significant news items in this area of high-strangeness.
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:46 am

jacksarfatti wrote:Rich whoever you are, you display an astounding lack of knowledge of the relevant facts. Believe what you like. However, I assure you that powerful people are forging ahead at the highest levels of world governments and multi-national corporations. Do not be put off by the idiocies of the exo-pols they have no power and no influence.
What is really happening is for example at http://100yearstarshipstudy.com as well as my own http://stardrive.org for up to the minute monitoring of significant news items in this area of high-strangeness.


erm... would you care to share these "facts"?, and would you care to point out exactly where i "display an astounding lack of knowledge"?.

and i mean no offence but your "assurance that powerful people are forging ahead" means absolutely nothing unless you can back it up with something other than hearsay?.

i dont know you and you dont know me so please dont assume to know my level of knowledge...

what i have said in my first post is based on a lot of observations and much research, claims mean nothing unless they can be proven, example: i can now claim to assure you that powerful people are at my home planning to suck out everyones brain in 2025 but that doesn't make it true does it?.

edit) thanks for the links, interesting websites but i fail to see what they have to do with any of the points i made in my other post.

im honestly not trying to have an argument or be a dick but i see no relevance to anything ive said
thanks

rich
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby jacksarfatti » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:36 am

There is a literature of over 60 years not all of it nutty. For monitoring of recent data (of varying quality) see Weird Desk at http://stardrive.org mostly posted by Kim Burrafato. See website of Bigelow's National Institute of Discovery Science and Bruce Maccabee's webpage as well as Stan Friedman's and the books of Jacques Vallee. See also Paul Hill's very sober good book from years ago. However, if your mind is set that the case is closed and irrational etc etc one cannot convince you. What I can tell you is that work is going forward not by the loud-mouthed nuts and sociopaths that clutter the UFO - paranormal landscape, but by serious scientists backed by serious money private and public.
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby jacksarfatti » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:41 am

Rich, look at your photo how you present yourself to the world and compare it to mine. Who looks more like an idiot? :lol:
PS I have a Ph.D. in physics from the University of California.
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby jacksarfatti » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:45 am

PS that photo of mine was taken at a JASON meeting at General Atomics in Del Mar/La Jolla area.
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:52 am

jacksarfatti wrote:Rich, look at your photo how you present yourself to the world and compare it to mine. Who looks more like an idiot? :lol:
PS I have a Ph.D. in physics from the University of California.


this is the most ridiculous, condescending childish and outright stupid comment i have ever read, now you are showing an extreme lack of intelligence by even mentioning my avatar!.

what does my avatar have to do with me or my knowledge or intelligence?.

would you care to point out where i insulted you in any way to make you resort to nonsense like this?.

just to inform you, its a picture of masaaki sakai, an actor, playing the role of king monkey aka sun wukong, it came from a japanese tv show that i loved as a child which in turn came from a very oldand very famous chinese book called journey to the west which is a fantastical story and has as much basis in reality as most if not all ufo claims.....

thanks

rich
Last edited by RICH-ENGLAND on Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby Hawkeye » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:54 am

I like it a lot. I have been in sales and attended conventions for years. Giving that initial jolt to the crowd is priceless, of course telling them what they want to hear is mandatory. (it's called the grabber)

1.25 hrs..hmmm There must have been a roar of enthusiasm to end it at that point. Oh well, just tell everyone to be back at 9:30am for the really BIG news. (synchronize your Swatches)

Of course Kaku will need to be briefed on holding back with any info pertaining to the Sumerian scrolls. Everyone will be enslaved, and money.. well, business ventures will kind of fallout.

If the law of averages hold up, 20 of the 1,000 will peel off a check. Me, I'm a little disappointed at the lack of longitudinal studies accomplished thus far.

:cry:
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:57 am

jacksarfatti wrote:There is a literature of over 60 years not all of it nutty. For monitoring of recent data (of varying quality) see Weird Desk at http://stardrive.org mostly posted by Kim Burrafato. See website of Bigelow's National Institute of Discovery Science and Bruce Maccabee's webpage as well as Stan Friedman's and the books of Jacques Vallee. See also Paul Hill's very sober good book from years ago. However, if your mind is set that the case is closed and irrational etc etc one cannot convince you. What I can tell you is that work is going forward not by the loud-mouthed nuts and sociopaths that clutter the UFO - paranormal landscape, but by serious scientists backed by serious money private and public.


we all know what frauds most of these people are, now would you care to address the actual points i made in my post and present me with these "facts" and proof of your claims and actually point out how a 100 year starship and an alternative news website is actually relevant to anything i said in my post or are you going to keep fluffing past with deflection tactics like insulting my avatar?.

thanks

rich
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Re: Case closed (to logic and rational thinking)

Postby jacksarfatti » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:28 am

It was a joke Rich. You must admit you look quite stupid in your photo. If you don't realize that maybe you are? ;-)
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