1950 FBI UFO Document

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1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby ryguy » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:51 am

Hey everyone,

There's a new Roswell-related document from the FBI FOIA vault making the rounds, but there's a lot of background in the article to check out so it's taking a lot of work. I could use feedback from our older members that recall the older UFO stories from the early Ufology heydays regarding any of the events and names listed on this document. It involves an alleged Air Force "informant" and the FBI. Many are saying it's a Roswell related document, others are saying it's related to the Aztec UFO story.

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2011/04 ... t-exactly/

http://vault.fbi.gov/hottel_guy/Guy%20H ... f%201/view

All input and insight greatly appreciated.

-Ryan
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby Zep Tepi » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:18 pm

My 2009 article Play it Again, Scam deals with events from that time period. The story contained in the FBI memo very likely has something to do with the tall tales spread by GeBauer and Newton. The description of the aliens matches exactly the description as told by them and reported on extensively at the time.

In my opinion, the FBI memo is proof only that someone told Guy Hottel the exact same story and he reported it as such.

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby astrophotographer » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:03 pm

I was looking at this in the newspaper archive. The Greeley, Colorado newspaper of March 10, 1950 has an article about an "unnamed scientist" giving a lecture at the University of Denver. This "unnamed scientist" (which I think was Silas Newton) stated that three saucers from Venus had come to earth and landed and each saucer had midget sized occupants. Sounds like this is the origin of this memo.
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby Access Denied » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:11 pm

Zep Tepi wrote:My 2009 article Play it Again, Scam deals with events from that time period.

Hah, beat you to it by 4 hours Steve! :lol:

I posted a link on JREF last night to your Aztec article along with a quote from Dave Thomas' page on the Aztec hoax here...

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p= ... stcount=50

If you follow the link in my comment on your blog post to my post in the forum here you’ll see I posted the same quote in 2009. LMH was shopping it around in 1998 and I understand it was released under the FOIA in 1977 and posted online by CUFOS in 1986 and at some point Bill Moore of all people debunked it.

Round and round we go…
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby Zep Tepi » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:53 pm

astrophotographer wrote:I was looking at this in the newspaper archive. The Greeley, Colorado newspaper of March 10, 1950 has an article about an "unnamed scientist" giving a lecture at the University of Denver. This "unnamed scientist" (which I think was Silas Newton) stated that three saucers from Venus had come to earth and landed and each saucer had midget sized occupants. Sounds like this is the origin of this memo.


Yes it was Silas Newton, the lecture is covered in the RU article above (and quoted below!).

Access Denied wrote:
Zep Tepi wrote:My 2009 article Play it Again, Scam deals with events from that time period.

Hah, beat you to it by 4 hours Steve! :lol:

I posted a link on JREF last night to your Aztec article along with a quote from Dave Thomas' page on the Aztec hoax here...

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p= ... stcount=50

If you follow the link in my comment on your blog post to my post in the forum here you’ll see I posted the same quote in 2009. LMH was shopping it around in 1998 and I understand it was released under the FOIA in 1977 and posted online by CUFOS in 1986 and at some point Bill Moore of all people debunked it.

Round and round we go…


Absolutely, Bekkum is trying to tout this as new information and other sites have been reporting about it as such too.

I should try and keep up with your posts lol.
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby ryguy » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:52 pm

Okay this is starting to make sense. I couldn't see a release data on the FBI FOIA page so it wasn't clear when the document was first released.

-Ryan
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:42 pm

I've updated the main site with an article discussing this subject, have a look:
FBI UFO Memo: Proof of Lazy Journalism

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Steve
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby ryguy » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:57 pm

Steve - you're on fire. :-)
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby JayKew » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:49 am

Im almost positive that this document appears in one of Timothy Goods "comics".

Probably " Above Top Secret ".

Im not sure I considered it an important enough piece of literature to keep but I will look for it over the next few days.

I am certain however that it is not a newly released document.

Jay
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby Bloodyhellisthatrue » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:25 pm

Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster.
This documents does indeed appear in Timothy Goods "Beyond Top Secret" p.489. In fact it appears to have been so widely covered a long time ago, that it's further proof, if it's needed, that newspapers will report anything without a simple fact check nowadays.

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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby Gilles F. » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:05 pm

Greetings friends,
Another article I found very interesting about this new come back of the Guy Hottel memo, probably one the best summary focused on the subject imho, by Jesse Emspak.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/132868/ ... o-hoax.htm
Have a nice reading!
Regards,
Gilles F.
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby Access Denied » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:24 am

ryguy wrote:Steve - you're on fire. :-)

Boy I'll say… apparently he wasn't kidding when told us he was going to get back to writing more after he finished some tweaking of the site. I figured it would be like in a couple of weeks or so but man…

For those who don’t know, maintaining a site can get to be like having a second job and a LOT of what Steve does is done behind the scenes. It’s precisely because he does such a great job of keeping the site running smooth that it’s so transparent and consequently it can become somewhat of a thankless job so I for one would just like to take this opportunity to thank him.

In case you haven’t noticed, there’s been a number of changes to the blog and other places here and there so if you like what you see, I’m sure Steve would love to hear from you. On the other hand, if you see something you don’t like, knowing Steve it’s probably best to keep it to yourself lol…

[j/k]

Anyway, on topic, saw this post elsewhere from one of our RU members at large that I thought is worth repeating here…

IsaacKoi wrote:
JimOberg wrote:Bruce Maccabee says it's a fraud:

Jim,

The document itself is NOT a fraud (and I doubt that Bruce said that, albeit that Jack Sarfatti has circulated an email with that heading). The document is a well-known genuine FBI document - it simply relates to a well-known hoax.

Thus, it differs from, say, the forged MJ-12 documents which are not genuine government documents at all.

I had assumed that many people would be familiar with the relevant hoax and the evidence that exposed it decades ago. However, the various threads about this document (which have not included that evidence) rather undermine my assumption. Frankly, I don't know whether to be amused or depressed by all the nonsense being written about this document at the moment on ATS, other websites and in the mainstream media.

I could spend quite a bit of my time collating details of the relevant evidence, but - really - what would be the point? The evidence has been published again and again over the years. Is it worth bothering collating relevant material yet again and posting it here? These threads strongly suggest that it is probably not worth the effort.

I gave a reference to Bruce's book a few days ago (and, for that matter, a few years ago in a similar thread) as well as other books and UFO documentaries. That didn't seem to help reduce the amount of nonsense being written...

I don't have much free time and I think it would probably be sensible to spend more of that free time concentrating on another one of my hobbies.

All the best,

Isaac

It’s times like this I’m sure many of us can feel his pain. Especially when, as I suspect, ignorance like this spreading as widely as it has so quickly isn’t entirely attributable to naivety on the part of everyone who spread it…

The good news however is if any of it was calculated, I don’t think they calculated what the magnitude of the backfire might be and looking around, I see quite a bit of it.

Well done Steve et. al. who remain steadfastly passionate about the truth. =D>

Tom
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby IsaacKoi » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:07 pm

Access Denied wrote:Anyway, on topic, saw this post elsewhere from one of our RU members at large that I thought is worth repeating here…

IsaacKoi wrote:Isaac

It’s times like this I’m sure many of us can feel his pain. Especially when, as I suspect, ignorance like this spreading as widely as it has so quickly isn’t entirely attributable to naivety on the part of everyone who spread it…


Hi Tom,

I'm glad some of you share my pain. It's been a frustrating week...

I plan fighting back against all this nonsense with a rather detailed and lengthy new thread on ATS today. I've been working on it overnight.

All the best,

Isaac
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby IsaacKoi » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:12 pm

Ok, I've now posted my rather lengthy piece on this farce on ATS at the link below:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread689049/pg1

(I thought this material may be of interest to you guys - probably more so than to many on ATS. As always, I'm not sure whether I should post a link to another forum or repeat all the material here. In the interests of efficiency I'm just posting the link, but feel free to replace it with some or all of that material I've posted there).

All the best,

Isaac
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Re: 1950 FBI UFO Document

Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:35 pm

I've just had a look at your post(s) on ATS and I have to say that is the best damn collection of information on this matter that I've seen. It's an entire article (and then some) and deserves to be published as such.

I know you have your own website under construction, but if you don't plan on hosting this information there, I would love to host it here on the main site.

Very nicely done!

Cheers,
Steve
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