UFO or blimp?

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UFO or blimp?

Postby astrophotographer » Wed May 25, 2011 12:33 am

I was looking at Joe Capp's website today and saw his UFO video. I was curious what others might think.

http://ufomedia.blogspot.com/2011/05/ny-ufo-hotline-videos-cesars-video.html

Some important facts to consider. The UFO was over the Bronx/Manhattan area on Sept 26, 2010 for several hours starting around 8 PM. Is it a coincidence that the Red Sox were playing the Yankees at the same time at Yankee Stadium, which is in the Bronx? Is it possible there was a blimp involved? I was trying to figure out what blimp might have been present but could not pin anything down. The UFO seems to have a flashing strobe on top, a red light on its Port side and a green light on its starboard side. That is fairly consistent with an airship but that may be just me.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby Luck » Wed May 25, 2011 1:22 am

astrophotographer wrote:Is it possible there was a blimp involved?


Like this one? (ESPN, publish date 12/7/2010):
After floating over Red Sox and Yankees games in late September, Tropical Storm Nicole forced the big balloon into a three-day bypass down the Appalachians.

"We ended up in Tuscaloosa for the Alabama-Florida game," Comer said. The blimp is based in Pompano Beach, Fla., near Fort Lauderdale.


story here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=5895989
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby astrophotographer » Wed May 25, 2011 3:38 am

Aha!!! Nice find. I kept trying to locate the location of the Goodyear blimp but my searches did not find anything. Can this be the solution? I find it interesting in the start of the video we are told that it could not be a blimp. I wonder how they figured that out. Obviously, none of them are sports fans and did not consider if the Yankees were home (even better yet an ESPN Redsox game).
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby Access Denied » Wed May 25, 2011 4:14 am

Nice work Luck and Tim. I think we have a match, and in record time...

[from the article at Joe Capp's website linked to in the OP]

A comment, made by the scientist who studied this video for over two weeks, was that the object never stopped surprising him; especially it's light sources.

Perhaps said scientist should have spent less time studying the video and more time going through the rather extensive list of known mundane causes for UFO sightings in order to eliminate them first?

Any comments made attacking the character of the witness will be deleted.

One wonders if that applies to comments identifying the most likely source of these "surprising" lights?

[I posted one linking to this thread and took screen caps just in case]

The video stand on its own.

Indeed.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby astrophotographer » Wed May 25, 2011 2:47 pm

Oh...I doubt he will allow the comment or any indication that this is a blimp stand or get out there. I intend to mention it in SUNlite unless someone can demonstrate it wasn't a blimp.
he posts says he "stakes his reputation" on the authenticity of the video. Well he states it can't be a hoax but we don't know what the witness was thinking here. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they just did not know what it was but you have to wonder why didn't they look closer with binoculars or some other optical aid?
Capp mentions that a scientist looked at it for two weeks. I can only assume he was a UFO scientist (maybe he got his phD from a cracker jack box?) with a will to believe he was seeing something exotic and did not bother to look at the evidence of location, time, and direction.
Capp also mentions the witness kept the video for over a year. Huh??? September 2010 was less than 8 months ago so I have to wonder about what he calls a "year". Maybe he is from Mercury or some planet where the year is shorter?
Finally, the last bit in the video is confusing because the date stamp says November 2010. Is this a continuation of the same video where the operator inadvertantly changed the date or is some other event? I think it is a case of the operator changing the date accidently but one has to wonder.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby James Carlson » Wed May 25, 2011 8:35 pm

Good God, watching that whole thing was a painful experience! I was ready to cop to planting weapons of mass destruction all over Iraq just so somebody would turn it off; then I finally found the remote, so I pulled back a bit, and confessed only that I could find Iraq on a map. Seriously, though, I'm not surprised a "scientist" watching this for over two weeks discovered "that the object never stopped surprising him". If I had done that, I would have been in a permanent state of "surprised" requiring a lock up in a mental hospital for a few months. This is what they consider "evidence"? My cat could do a better job filming this, and he hates production values! Everything has to be close-up and hand held with him or it lacks "reality". It's the Blair Witch Thing all over again. I love the part where the little girl says, "that's the space ship?" and gets the answer, "Well, maybe. Only maybe." Somebody should needlepoint that and send it to Robert Hastings: "Well, maybe. Only maybe", just after "Home Sweet Home".

Nice pick-up, Luck. Admirable research values there.

So Joe Capp is "Advocating for the UFO witnesses to be treated fairly and with respect." Fair treatment is already provided. It's a pot-luck dinner, but if you bring crap to the table, you'll be asked to leave. That seems fair, and it's pretty simple. As for respect, it isn't something you're born with. You have to earn respect. And torturing us with videos like this isn't sufficient.

Maybe someone should just try to call the guys who run the blimps at the ball games and ask them if they were there that night. I'll see if I can track down a phone number. I'm sure they keep logs...
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby Luck » Wed May 25, 2011 10:44 pm

astro,
Glad to hear my link was helpful in your search.


James Carlson wrote:So Joe Capp is "Advocating for the UFO witnesses to be treated fairly and with respect."


Personally, I don't have a problem in theory with what Joe Capp is saying, I think it is important to be nice and courteous when at all possible; but I think what he really means is that any skepticism shown towards the story will be taken as character assassination towards the witness.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby James Carlson » Thu May 26, 2011 1:09 am

Luck wrote:astro,
Glad to hear my link was helpful in your search.


James Carlson wrote:So Joe Capp is "Advocating for the UFO witnesses to be treated fairly and with respect."


Personally, I don't have a problem in theory with what Joe Capp is saying, I think it is important to be nice and courteous when at all possible; but I think what he really means is that any skepticism shown towards the story will be taken as character assassination towards the witness.

From my experience, most skepticism is well-deserved. They've been playing this silly game for 60-odd years and have produced very little of anything except a whole lot of well-confirmed hoaxes, lies, exaggerations , errors, or observational irrationality. I've found that it's hard to be courteous to people who insist that you're human waste because you point out what you believe is obvious. I was courteous and well-mannered for many years, but I still got anonymous emails from people who wanted to know why I've got "Daddy" fixations, or whether or not my entire family is schizophrenic, or whether or not my "manic insanity" is a genetic deficiency, and does it come from my mother's side of the family or my father's, or why I'm out to "ruin" the reputations of real live American heroes who have apparently decided to buck the system and tell the truth -- like anybody was ever trying so desperately to hide it. I've reached the sad conclusion that I just don't have enough time in the day to give buffoons the credit they think they deserve -- not when they refuse to pull their punches in public or in private, and not when they refuse to take a little extra time not only examining the arguments I've produced, but also having the courtesy to finding out what exactly those arguments consist of before reaching poorly developed conclusions that have little or nothing to do with those arguments. Personally, I can barely stomach 50 minutes on UFO You-tube revelations; the tenor of that conversation has been made very clear in a lot of shrill demands for respect while offering little more than obnoxious stupidity in return. I'll be courteous wherever I get the same response, but I haven't experienced that much of it insofar as UFOlogy is concerned; I am, however, as certain as anybody that courtesy has social value. Respect, on the other hand, needs to be earned, and precious few have done so. While it's very true that you have done more than enough to earn the respect, the courtesy, and the admiration of others, many, many have not, and pointedly refuse to even try.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby astrophotographer » Thu May 26, 2011 1:16 am

Luck wrote:Personally, I don't have a problem in theory with what Joe Capp is saying, I think it is important to be nice and courteous when at all possible; but I think what he really means is that any skepticism shown towards the story will be taken as character assassination towards the witness.


I agree with your assessment of Capp's attitude. Unfortunately, this attitude basically removes any skepticism towards any claim. The "I always believe the witness" excuse opens one up for all sorts of wild stories and can make one appear gullible or an "easy mark" for hoaxers. I think the witness in this case was honest that he states he saw something strange and recorded. However, both he and Capp failed to follow through and ask the obvious questions. Belief overcame any skepticism or curiousity as to the objects possible identity. I have sincere criticism to the unnamed "scientist" (if he really is one), who was "fascinated" by the UFO and declared it was not a blimp.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby Luck » Thu May 26, 2011 2:03 am

James Carlson wrote:From my experience, most skepticism is well-deserved. They've been playing this silly game for 60-odd years and have produced very little of anything except a whole lot of well-confirmed hoaxes, lies, exaggerations , errors, or observational irrationality. I've found that it's hard to be courteous to people who insist that you're human waste because you point out what you believe is obvious. I was courteous and well-mannered for many years, but I still got anonymous emails from people who wanted to know why I've got "Daddy" fixations, or whether or not my entire family is schizophrenic, or whether or not my "manic insanity" is a genetic deficiency, and does it come from my mother's side of the family or my father's, or why I'm out to "ruin" the reputations of real live American heroes who have apparently decided to buck the system and tell the truth -- like anybody was ever trying so desperately to hide it.


James,
Please don't think I was criticizing you or your comments. In fact, I feel Joe deserve all the skepticism that he receives. My comment was really more a criticism of Joe. People alway get crazy when you start messing with their world views; and with these particular topics (or religion), I think the tendency is amplified. I have always found that the mud slinging begins when one's opponent is unable to rely on the facts and rational thought to defend themselves with. Most people are either too lazy to actually research the facts or they are immersed in some sort of faulty logic loop that has allowed their mind to rewrite history. Either way, trying to deal with these people is a lost cause and trying to remain courteous would be a waste of time and energy.

astrophotographer wrote:I agree with your assessment of Capp's attitude. Unfortunately, this attitude basically removes any skepticism towards any claim. The "I always believe the witness" excuse opens one up for all sorts of wild stories and can make one appear gullible or an "easy mark" for hoaxers. I think the witness in this case was honest that he states he saw something strange and recorded. However, both he and Capp failed to follow through and ask the obvious questions. Belief overcame any skepticism or curiousity as to the objects possible identity. I have sincere criticism to the unnamed "scientist" (if he really is one), who was "fascinated" by the UFO and declared it was not a blimp.


Astro,
I agree. In Capp's obvious rush to get this on the internet, it appears he failed to do any background on the witness himself. Is his eyesight impaired? Was it a hazy night? (Was he drinking?) There are ways to ask these questions without appearing disrespectful. Only in this field is being skeptical equated with being rude or impolite.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby James Carlson » Thu May 26, 2011 11:32 am

Luck wrote:
James Carlson wrote:James,
Please don't think I was criticizing you or your comments.

You don't have to worry at all about that. I never thought for one moment that you were being overly critical. Believe me, I've had some experience with "overly critical" and you are nowhere near that mark on the wall. As far as I'm concerned, we're just having a friendly conversation with a little coffee cake. My writing style, if I have one, tends to lean on the emotive side, and I've been told by those I trust that the general tenor can sometimes seethe with more pathos than is probably necessary. In any case, I was presenting a sideways counterpoint to show that although I understand your feelings, acting upon them can sometimes be futile, and with some people it's simply a waste of time. I have never been insulted so egregiously in any other field of endeavor outside of UFOlogy, so I rarely bother trying to be courteous anymore when confronting such criticism. But that is NOT a reflection of you or your arguments -- it's merely an adjustment that I have made to the expectations of good intent. Where UFOs are concerned, I no longer expect it; I do react to it, however, and I grant people the same respect they are willing to give me. To date, you've shown me nothing but respect and courtesy, and I will happily return that, so I hope I didn't offend you. If I thought you were being overly critical with me, I would come right out and say so. You have not been, and I enjoy our discussions.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby Luck » Fri May 27, 2011 1:21 am

James Carlson wrote:To date, you've shown me nothing but respect and courtesy, and I will happily return that, so I hope I didn't offend you. If I thought you were being overly critical with me, I would come right out and say so. You have not been, and I enjoy our discussions.


James,
You absolutely did not insult me. You will need to try harder. (jk!)

:lol:
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby DoomsdayRex » Fri May 27, 2011 2:52 am

Access Denied wrote:Nice work Luck and Tim. I think we have a match, and in record time...

[from the article at Joe Capp's website linked to in the OP]

A comment, made by the scientist who studied this video for over two weeks, was that the object never stopped surprising him; especially it's light sources.


The fact that no scientist is mentioned by name belies the fact he either does not exist or is recognized as a scientist in any true scientific field.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby Access Denied » Fri May 27, 2011 7:05 am

astrophotographer wrote:Oh...I doubt he will allow the comment or any indication that this is a blimp stand or get out there. I intend to mention it in SUNlite unless someone can demonstrate it wasn't a blimp.

You must be psychic. 48 hours later and this comment of mine attacking the witness hasn't been posted...

Media Matters comment.png
Media Matters?
Media Matters comment.png (74.3 KiB) Viewed 3011 times

The cover-up at the hands of UFOlogists continues…

I say enthusiasts everywhere should come together and demand disclosure!

[The Million Skeptic’s March on the Roswell Museum anyone?]

Luck wrote:Personally, I don't have a problem in theory with what Joe Capp is saying, I think it is important to be nice and courteous when at all possible; but I think what he really means is that any skepticism shown towards the story will be taken as character assassination towards the witness.

Agreed, keyword “theory”…

The attitude would appear to be what the witnesses don’t know can’t hurt them but sadly the reality is what the witnesses don’t know can’t hurt the UFOlogists… and their bottom line.

The name of the game in UFOlogy is pretending that they’ll be met with derision so they can be met with delusion instead.

DoomsdayRex wrote:The fact that no scientist is mentioned by name belies the fact he either does not exist or is recognized as a scientist in any true scientific field.

Bingo.
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Re: UFO or blimp?

Postby astrophotographer » Fri May 27, 2011 2:47 pm

DoomsdayRex wrote:The fact that no scientist is mentioned by name belies the fact he either does not exist or is recognized as a scientist in any true scientific field.


My feelings exactly. What kind of scientist makes these kinds of statements.

There are lots of red flags in this one, the more I look into it. It is a case of wishful thinking in my opinion. Capp was promoting this video the first time he saw it as a "flying triangle" back in his blog posting in April.

I think the witness did think he saw something exotic but he obviously was not a baseball fan. Any fan would have watched a Red Sox-Yankees game late in the season (even though the Red Sox were essentially out of the playoff race at this point). You would have heard it in the background on the television. So he was unaware of a major sporting event happening nearby. I have been trying to locate a Cesar Guerrero in the Bronx using a couple of search engines but with little luck (I haven't tried that hard yet). He lives in a very tall building (he is supposedly video taping this from the 26th floor!). He stated the object was between the Bronx and Manhattan and felt his Niece, who lives in the vicinity of 105th and Columbus (in Manhattan) should have seen it. This means he was looking to the southwest in the general direction of Yankee stadium. It looks like he is overlooking a park of some kind, which might be Bronx park but that is a guess. If it is Bronx park, Yankee stadium lies in the visual sight line from there to the location of his Niece.

Anyway, criticism is not being directed at the witness but at Capp and his "scientist" friend, who did an awful job of invesitgating this before promoting. They appear to be blinded by the "will to believe".

EDIT: Oh btw, the last part of the video looks like a different date and the date stamp is probably correct. It was November 20, 2010. Anything happening at Yankee stadium that night?

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-11-20/sports/27081834_1_david-ruffer-manti-te-o-brian-kelly

Notre Dame returned to New York Saturday night to rekindle the romance with its subway alumni and hopefully take a step toward resurrecting the great success it had when a game at Yankee Stadium meant the nation's best program playing the world's best venue.

The Fighting Irish pounded Army, 27-3, before 54,251 in the 50th meeting of the schools and the perfect pairing to rechristen college football at baseball's cathedral in the Bronx.


My guess is that the Goodyear blimp (or somebody's blimp) was there that night as well for the usual aerial shots. I guess Capp and Guerrero are not sports fans.
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