dan smith

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dan smith

Postby cartoonsyndicate » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:34 am

Gus Russo?? Sy Hersh?? Dan is getting more interesting by the minute.
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Postby Max » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:55 pm

As of recent, things have been moving fast-and-furious in Dan's Blog. Worth having another look if you're so inclined.

(And by the way, if you can figure out who all the new acronyms are, please let me know! LOL!)

(Yes, I know, SI=TF=Dr Kit)
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:15 pm

Max wrote:As of recent, things have been moving fast-and-furious in Dan's Blog. Worth having another look if you're so inclined.

(And by the way, if you can figure out who all the new acronyms are, please let me know! LOL!)

(Yes, I know, SI=TF=Dr Kit)


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Postby ryguy » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:43 pm

Max wrote:(And by the way, if you can figure out who all the new acronyms are, please let me know! LOL!)


There's not really anything new or major. Same main sources (TF/SI and CF) - same games, different day. The good news is that Dan is supporting Gus' investigation into the JJA matter, which is great. CF will not interfere, nor will he intercede - if he does, I'll be pleasantly surprised. He knows much more concerning Angleton than he'll admit - even to Dan, I am sure. Doubt he'll try to stop Dan, but I doubt he'll assist Gus as well.

You'll notice there's also CI (Ivo) poking his nose into things he doesn't fully appreciate. That's not an attack, just an observation. Comical - but to be expected, he can not drop the old battles - and continues to try to turn Dan against us, as he has been since the first day he contacted Dan many months ago. We've seen or heard all of those comments, and I could care less. Again...comical - but to be expected. He, like many others, can't seem to focus on the big picture - but can only dwell on old battle scars, tiny unimportant battles, and a vindictive need to get in a last poke. So be it.

Meanwhile, progress is being made on the real battlefront - many miles ahead of these petty issues. Well - several fronts, but the men behind the curtain appear to be off-balance and unsure of themselves. They believe they, themselves, are bulletproof - but still do not want the truth revealed. They need to ask themselves - if they are so bulletproof - what do they fear from everything being made clear for the public? Wouldn't they prefer to reveal the truth themselves - rather than have the public speculate regarding their motives?

My only hope, and I direct this toward those who have their crosshairs set on RU, instead of those who are important and running the show - is that everyone who has an interest in true disclosure (regardless of what we each believe that disclosure will be) will focus on the people at the top who are pulling the strings. Revealing the strings, and tracing them to the hands and the persons controlling those hands - should be our top and most critical priority. Settling personal ego scores, wasting energy attacking people who are unimportant, and immature tit-for-tat attacks do nothing more than assist those who want the important truths to be covered up. They hope that we will tear eachother to shreds rather than all collectively turn our crosshairs on them.

The collective will of truth-seekers has the potential to uncover the truth - the big picture. Let's hope that everyone is mature enough to see through the fog of individual and personal hate, and can move ahead and work toward the greater good.

Do I think this is possible? Unfortunately, no. Have I still hope? Yeah. I do.

Cheers,
-Ry
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Postby Zep Tepi » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:35 pm

Sadly I also do not think it is possible. For some, the issue has nothing to do with finding out the truth but everything to do with having ones own ego stroked. I have seen some vindictive people in my time but the antics and rantings of some leave everything to be desired.

I am at the stage where I expect it from some and it's water off a ducks back. Sad, but it's the way things are. I didn't expect it from others however and it is troubling that I could be so off base regarding the intentions of some seriously troubled individuals. Those individuals couldn't give a toss about getting to the truth and are more interested in seeing their names in lights and ignore everything presented that flies in the face of their own delusions.

I say let them continue on the path they have now chosen, it makes it easier for us to present them as the liars and hypocrites that they are.

No, that wasn't directed at anyone from OM, in case you were wondering.

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Postby Max » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:24 pm

ryguy wrote:[quote=

1.............. There's not really anything new or major.

2.......................The collective will of truth-seekers has the potential to uncover the truth - the big picture. Let's hope that everyone is mature enough to see through the fog of individual and personal hate, and can move ahead and work toward the greater good.

Do I think this is possible? Unfortunately, no. Have I still hope? Yeah. I do.

Cheers,
-Ry


WRT #1 I don't know that I would dismiss it so quickly as such. There are a lot of undercurrents flowing right now that haven't been there in the past. It is plain to see that there is also much communication, the meat of which is unbeknown to us.

Here are just a few examples:

What seems to be shaping up is a little treasure hunt for the sources who have been put in place. This way we can all see who is where on the track. There should be an orderly queue. There need be no pushing and shoving. The grandson should be able to point us to the next logical source. One source does not make a story. We need someone independent of the family. It would have to be someone at least a credible as say, a Woolsey. There would then need to be some backup sources so that the first two would not be ganged up on.

This is how we could proceed for awhile and still avoid the WH press briefing for as long as possible. Before that point, there would need to be access to some of the 28. Some of them would need to be willing to stick their necks out, and this would be the logical place for them to put up a finger to test the breeze.

Some of this should be worked out before we could expect the grandson to say a whole lot. The main thing we will need from him will be additional live names. Well, those names could come from CF/TF.

If any of this is legit, then we should expect that the saber rattling relative to Mahmoud is meant to be linked into this timing. That will simply be another marker point along the trail.

Another person who might go to Florida is someone who baby-sat for Golitsyn for a spell.

This is from Gary:

A well-placed 'source' identified the counterintelligence aspect as originating with the IBC -- Intelligence Business Community -- and therefore outside of government supervision.

I've never heard of this designation: IBC.

My name is Nick Redfern; I work as an author and journalist (I have copy-pasted my work history for you below this email).

I have a new book out in a few months from now that focuses on a past-and-present "Think Tank"-style group in the US Government/Intel/military world that has been (and still is) focusing on thwarting the activities of what they believe is the truth behind the UFO mystery - namely that these "things" have demonic origins and that they are attempting to usher in Armageddon via a "UFO-alien" deception.

The group is heavily influenced by Eschatology. I know the names of some of these people, I have already interviewed some of them for the book, and I now have some of their papers on this (officially via FOIA).

My response:

Nick,

Yes, you come with a good reputation.

I did mention this to [CF], and his comment: “If these are not our people, then they are probably not important.”

One could take this in several ways.

[...]



It basically goes like this: a couple of years ago I spoke with a former Department of Defense (DoD) guy who had been asked in late 87/early 88 by his superiors to study a huge body of data held by the DoD that originated with the UFO research community, such as books, periodicals (things such as Budd Hopkins' Missing Time; Whitley Strieber's Communion; complete collections of the MUFON Journal; old APRO and NICAP bulletins, and much, much more).
He was specifically asked to look for any data linking UFOs, abduction accounts, contactee accounts, "unusual dream" accounts with the human soul.

He said that elements of the DoD were concerned that the UFO presence on our world was a "deception" and that these things were literally demonic and that this same presence was focused primarily upon the manipulation of the human soul and the ushering in of an "anti-Christ" type scenario and doing so behind a false "ET smokescreen."


Interesting. The ball is back to CF/CB. The grim reaper is stalking more than two of us. Who then is holding back, and why are they holding back? Is everyone waiting on JA/J? Is that fair? Who has the luxury of forgetting? If they won't lend their names, will they not lend their stories?

So SI has named 2/8 to CF, and CF has named 3/20 to us. If both were to tell everything they know to Gus, say; would that not be the end of this story? What are we waiting for? I ask everyone. Who decides the timing? Last I heard, it was Ferret and Ocelot, the birds who were not birds, and that was a long time ago. Where are they now?

DF reports that it was RD who supplied the name to Bill Ryan. It's a small world, after all. If this is all a con job, it should be an easy matter for someone like CF to set the matter straight. His failure to do so is a puzzle. Despite all his skeptical rhetoric, he lifts nary a finger to put an end to it. Au contraire, he is now a primary instigator.

CF owns SI's clearances. He calls him up and demands an explanation. One phone call, and it's all over. Where is that phone call, we'd like to know?


And then there is this:

//""Here is the word from CF. Here is the innocuous interpretation. SI is wont to drop names onto Rick, Bob and Hal. You'll recall that this happened recently with John Gannon. After weeks, even months of public speculation, it is finally agreed by all parties that this was another case of confusion and miscommunication. A similar thing happened with the DIA woman who was IDed by this same group. The list goes on, I am told. In any case, CF has deputized me to take up this matter directly with SI, which should happen later today. I simply ask him if the 'old man' is connected with the Serpo story, or if this was another case of miscommunication. CF is strongly suggesting that it would have been SI who dropped the name, in the first place.

In this same vein, I brought up the lists of the 20 + 8. CF averred that, yes, Robert Gates, e.g., might be put in the same basket as JG, i.e. he is connected with the core story only through SI. Well, I could see where that was going, and I balked. Wait a minute, are we now blaming the entire Soap Opera on SI, with RD as the best supporting actor? No. There were indeed other connections, independent of SI & Co., and this was the case even for RG. CF did acknowledge that SI had passed to him 2 of his 8 names. I asked for CF's assessment of those names. Were they any more or less legitimate than JG? He again averred that the two names he was given did seem to have some independent validity. So there we are. More or less still on track. One step back, and one and half steps forward. I will get back to SI in my designated afternoon time slot. The Old Man and the Serpo? According to CF there can only be three answers: yes, no and can't tell. It would not be legitimate, in other words, for SI to substitute the second answer when it is actually the third. I trust that SI will understand this protocol and accept my ad hoc deputization. I'll just ask for his concurrence at the outset.

In the meantime, CF will follow-up with Jack about his non-follow-up from JA/J. Everything clear?

WRT #2 Don't hold your breath.

Regards


(Quotes edited and Numbers added for clarity-hopefully.)
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Postby ryguy » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:11 pm

Like I said...nothing new.

Dan actually asked me/us to refresh his memory regarding the female name that came up months ago - a name CF looked into. This is very old news and occurred many months ago and was related to a name, yet another alleged DIA contact, that Doty had offered up to CF. I refreshed Dan's memory on the incident. He put it on the blog. CI threw out a completely rediculous name in regards to the female - no surprise there. Once off track, always off track - and completely off the plot. As you can see in the post above, the most recent one, Dan is struggling to understand why all of these names, Gannon, the old man, Paul, Herb, Gene, etc...etc..etc.... appear to have been dropped, one way or another by SI/TF.

The most promising vein though, and it appears CF agrees - is the JJA thread of investigation. Hopefully Dan is successful in working with Gus to get to the bottom of that.

-Ry
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:20 pm

jeeziz, ry.... i'm way over this s^~t. cs
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Postby ryguy » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:01 am

Caryn Calls Ron's Bluff - The R&D Show Transforms...or Not

Preface

After a long thread of public emails between Jack, Dan, and others - the conversation turned to Dan's Messianic message, as many who have listened to his interview with us will know - he believes his position and purpose is one of the next Messiah. After much discussion and debate about this, on April 6th, Caryn says enough is enough.

No more messianic antics for me, Dan. I’ve just about had my fill.

I am prepared to discuss your associations, which by your own admission afford you a voice and a degree of attention.

So, let’s start with this statement:

Dan wrote: “I am not asking CF to confirm any of this. Not yet. That day will come.”

Are you fully aware of what you are saying?

If, as you have surmised, CF and Dan are running the show, why wouldn’t you seek his confirmation? I suspect, and I’m not alone in this, that the reason you don’t is due to the fact that you’re terrified the answer will deflate your bubble. I put it to you that you are fully aware that when ‘that day comes’ the resounding no will leave you high and dry. Your only hope is to convince as many people as you can in the time remaining, in the hope that they’ll stick by you when the Cat has no choice but to cut you loose.

The catch 22: Unless CF confirms, very few are going to take you seriously.

Your bluff was called, Dan. What do you propose to do about it?


Caryn was calling his bluff. That is the crux of the matter - stated clearly by Caryn, Unless CF confirms, very few are going to take you seriously.

Dan's response:
No. I’ve never said that CF is running any show. If, I were running it, I’d make sure that he was not told the outcome. He would not know much more about it than either of us may reasonably speculate. I would not advise him to go public with his personal speculations.

I am doing what I can to expedite a final determination by forcing this issue in public.

If I’m cut loose, I would continue doing what I have done for the last 30 years, speculating about the BPWH. That would include speculation about the Second Coming and about the Eschaton.

But should I pop the question anyway? In my fifteen years of experience, no direct question of mine has been answered. I was spontaneously given my redirection ten years ago. I remain open to new suggestions from that same quarter.

Dan


Ray recognized the importance of Caryn's statement, and reiterates it:

Dan,

Caryn has called your bluff. And you are not acknowledging it. These were your own words to me:

<<Dan: “Spit it out, Ray. What do you have up your sleeve? Time to get real and specific, here!” >>

And then Caryn challenged you on being real and specific, but you avoided that challenge. You gave non-answers to her REAL and SPECIFIC questions.

I have been REAL and SPECIFIC with you. I can even be more REAL and more SPECIFIC with you, if you wish.

Here, let me repeat some other words that you stated:

<<Dan: “There is no creature more like God than what any human is ultimately capable of becoming. ”>>

And I agree. But I agree with the qualified statement as follows: I believe the human architecture is special, and its geometrical and mathematical form can be described and propagated as a Matrix System Model (MSM). You have, in the past, always asked for isomorphic maps. And I have now given you one REAL and SPECIFIC geometrical Systems Theory map, and you have not so much as given any comment on it. When are we going to stop talking about Dan as the Messiah and start talking about the common human systems model?

<<image removed>>>

When you wish to engage in a REAL conversation about this SPECIFIC matrix architecture, let me know, OK?

Ray


Caryn response:
Dan,

Please don’t tell us that you have never claimed that you and CF are running the aquatic show, aided and abetted by the Bilderbergers and the three wise visitors. I’ll be forced to forward hundreds of emails, where you, in no uncertain terms, do claim this.

Earlier, someone reminded me of the story of the Emperor’s New Clothes. I’m telling you that you are naked, Dan :-)


Dan response to Caryn:
Caryn,

Sure, CF and I are the Aquarium. That doesn’t mean that we decide if and when it changes from the possible to the probable.

Naked? Transparent might be more apt.

And this from Purple “Bob”:

<< The points made between you and Dan are very relevant to the work of McLuhan. I would even go so far as to say this was the crux of all of McLuhan's work. McLuhan as a Catholic attending Mass every day constantly meditated on the theme of the "Second Coming".

He used James Joyce's motif of "Here Comes Everybody" (from FINNEGANS WAKE, 1939) as a starting point. From there McLuhan saw the electronic implosion as the literal Second Coming. His later theme of the "user is the content" was the determinant for whether we saw this implosion as the Christ or the Anti-Christ.

This also is the core of my "mini-me" work. >>

What does “Bob” think I should do?

Dan



Caryn's response:
No, I’ll stick to naked.

LOL. You’ve done it again….waved me off with a flick of the wrist.

Is it cos I’m a girl?

Or is it cos you’d prefer to carry on the procession under the illusion that anyone who can’t see your clothes is either stupid or incompetent?

Sorry Dan, but this idiot isn’t going to be brushed under the rug too easily.


I could see that Caryn was having a hard time getting her point across...or if getting it across, it wasn't being taken seriously.

I decided to back her up.

Continued....
Last edited by ryguy on Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:51 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby ryguy » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:47 am

April 7th, 2006

I decided to lend my support to Caryn. As follows:

From: ryguy
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 10:10 AM
To: caryn anscomb
cc: xxxxxx
Subject: RE: Messianics & ?Systems Theory


Caryn has made a very good point here. If everything you claim is true - if you have been told, or it's even been remotely implied that you are the front runner, or even in the running at all, for the position of the next messiah for any sort of disclosure - then the one (or ones) who gave you that impression should confirm what you are claiming.

Caryn's called the bluff. Lay down your cards or have CF lay them down for you. Either way, CF is either filling your head with these things while simultaneously telling everyone you're abolutely crazy...or you actually are absolutely crazy. Why ignore this elephant in the room...just publicly ask the man himself and get this over with. If he publicly writes a statement lending his support, in his official capacity, to your cause and the things you are saying - you'll certainly have my undivided attention regarding whatever you have to say from this point on. I'd guess that you'd likely have the attention of many others as well.

Either you have actually been sanctioned as the possible catalyst of disclosure, or you are simply delusional. The only person who can stand up for you now and support that you aren't delusional, is CF. Will he do it? Or will he leave you hanging out to dry? Ask the question publicly, and let's find out.

-Ry


Sarfatti Responded:
Well said. Finally some straight talk. Arguing with Dan Smith is same as arguing with Paul Zielinski. Both manifest many of the same traits.


At the same time as this, a bunch of private emails were sent to me, apparently a number of people felt the same way...

Dan's response:
Ryan,

There is a flaw in this line of thought.

You are implicitly contradicting the underlying message of the BPWH. I cannot sanction that which contradicts my own message.

My message is just about the fact that we humans are created in the image of God. Nay, God is in each of us in a manner that is unsurpassed in the rest of Creation.

The only issue is how to prove this primary presupposition.

The worst way to do that would be coercive. Obviously, that would even be counterproductive.

You can neither coerce the God without, nor the God within.

What you are asking for is for CF to violate the Prime Directive. I am hereby, by my authority as the CEO of the Aquarium, directing him not to do so, even under severe provocation. There is one qualification to be specified below.

The premise of the BPWH is that we all possess a Divine power of reason, that when properly employed will lead all of us voluntarily to the higher Truth.

My job here is simply to help prime the universal pump of Reason. I do claim that CF has aided and abetted my doing so, but that has and should remain mostly private.

We do operate under a deadline. When I feel that I have exhausted my and/or my audience’s powers of Reason, then I will work out with CF a plan for continued minimalist violations of the Prime Directive so that we may still meet the deadline for Disclosure.

-----------------------------------------

PLEASE NOTE:::

There is an expanded list here, some few of whom have previously asked to be removed, but continue to appear on other closely related lists.

My claim is that the elimination of the BPW Hypothesis should be the first priority of the UFO community. I am open to all reasoned arguments to that end. Those who abuse this list by engaging in anything other than reasoned arguments will be dealt with accordingly and to the best of my ability.

-----------------------------------

Dan


David, a list member, responds:
> Ryan,

> There is a flaw in this line of thought.
>
> You are implicitly contradicting the underlying message of the BPWH. I
> cannot sanction that which contradicts my own message.

This is the crux of what you have to say. You have refused the message
that has been delievered to you and tell everyone who contradicts you
to shut up and now you aren't naked, you're bankrupt! It's time for
you to lay down your bet, stop using CF as your excuse and chief
enabler. Without proof you are just maundering in your beer.

>
> My message is just about the fact that we humans are created in the image > of God. Nay, God is in each of us in a manner that is unsurpassed in the
> rest of Creation.

Give me a good supernova any day!
d
>
> The only issue is how to prove this primary presupposition.

Unprovable and unnecessary.


My response to Dan's message above:
> We do operate under a deadline. When I feel that I have exhausted my and/or my audience’s powers of Reason, then I will work out with CF a > plan for continued minimalist violations of the Prime Directive so that we may still meet the deadline for Disclosure.
---

In that case, please remove me from this exchange until you and your compadre decide it's time to violate the "Prime Directive". There have already been a number of very reasonable arguments place in front of you, as to why you could not possibly be the Captain. Instead you twirl in circles with flowery prose. Your few followers twirl in circles as well, but without the flowery prose - just poor grammar, sloppy critical thinking, and atrocious writing. It's a waste of time and it's a waste of email storage space. So until you have something substantial to prove that you are who you think you are, like CF making a public statement, you can count me out. I get my fill of spiritual food and theology from ministers and priests. I get my fill of philosophy from the classical writers and poets. I get nothing at all from anything you've been saying, either on here, or over the phone when you're excessively drunk and calling people stupid. If you're a messiah - you're not my kind of messiah.

Good luck with the hypothesis Dan. I hope, for your sake and sanity, the great Disclosure-with-a-capital-'D' you are counting on takes place and that you really are part of it.

-Ryan



Dan's response:
Ryan,

Thank you for that portion of your response which is indicative of reasoning on your part.

First of all, I will allow no one to bow out gracefully from this forum until the BPW Hypothesis has either been reasonably eliminated, or has been shown to have a substantially lower priority than the hypothesis that the person is presently pursuing.

I do apologize for any behavior of mine that has offended you in the past, and if I am unable to make reasonable amends for it, then you may depart in good grace.

As to the messianic contingency, here are the reasonable choices:

1. Provide are a reasonable argument for the elimination of the messianic possibility from the arena of UFO discourse.
2. Provide a reasonable and specific alternative to my candidacy thereto.
3. some other reasonable alternative…???

Dan


My response:
<<I do apologize for any behavior of mine that has offended you in the past, and if I am unable to make reasonable amends for it, then you may depart in good grace. >>


Fair enough. Thank you.

Here's my answer to your three points...however I'd prefer to avoid a long and lengthy email exchange, as I'm sure many on this cc list don't appreciate the 200+ emails that roll in every day from these discussions. I'll respond, and will try to live up to your expectations of "using reason". Although I'm sure you understand what doesn't appear as proper reason to you, likely does appear as quite reasonable to others. So if we can accept the subjectiveness of "Reason"...let's take a short stroll... And after reading this, if you'd like to carry on the exchange, please feel free to reply. But I likely won't reply again unless CF is somehow actively taking part himself. If you want to take issue with any of my points, I'd be glad to do so with you over the phone or skype.

<<As to the messianic contingency, here are the reasonable choices:
1. Provide are a reasonable argument for the elimination of the messianic possibility from the arena of UFO discourse. >>

A messianic personality would need to have a much higher level of insight regarding the whole (or "holistic") nature of the UFO and Alien enigma. That insight would require not only a deep personal connection and understanding of the spiritual nature of "The Visitors", but it would also require an awareness of and appreciation for the material nature and evidence that supports their existence and the reality of their visitations to Earth.

I believe that you have a very high level of spiritual understanding, but lack any awareness or appreciation of the material nature of the enigma... If CF does have access to the evidence, he would not have shared it with you. Your personal evidence comes in the form of how you interpreted your personal spiritual "encounter". That interpretation holds very little value to others, because it is too easily interpreted differently depending on who experiences it. It's subjective. Caryn has expressed that previously. She has interpreted her experiences as having a profound meaning for her. And that interpretation assists her in analyzing the material evidence she encounters. But to focus solely on only your spiritual "reality" is an insult and a disrespect to others who have different spiritual experiences and interpretations of them. That is a very strong argument against the messianic possibility here.

<< 2. Provide a reasonable and specific alternative to my candidacy thereto.>>

Since the messianic possibility regarding the UFO enigma isn't really very likely, given the explanation above, there is no alternative candidacy other than what Ray and Caryn have clearly pointed out. That in analyzing and bringing about this kind of disclosure - it is more important to have the collective interpretation of many, rather than the singular interpretation of one man...who may or may not get it right. And no - there is no need for a central collection point for the collection of interpretations, because that person doing the collecting would always filter those through his/her own interpretation - which may or may not be correct. For you to be the messiah, the assumption has to be made that your interpretations are correct, and that your filter is perfect.


<< 1. some other reasonable alternative…???>>

Those who have anything to disclose, UFO related or not, should simply do it through normal media channels. A baby develops in 9 months, but no poking or prodding will make the baby grow any faster. If it's time to come out, as you suggest it is - it will be much more painful to spread out that birth over many hours so that we can discuss and examine, and then regurgitate what was just discussed so we can then re-examine, rather than simply go through the pain quickly and get it over with. At that point, when it's simply all out there, we can all interpret the reality of what we're faced with. If CF has anything to say "through" you - it's clearly not working. No one is getting the message, and even less are taking seriously what they're getting. It's time for CF to simply say what he has to say, if he has anything to say.


And followed up with one more:
On another note - CF's own words are important to keep in mind here. Here's what Pandolfi told Gary Bekkum in this article as Starstream Research:

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/spies ... h_tape.htm

"Pandolfi even expressed some concern about email messages that mentioned his name. In October of 2004 he wrote to us, 'I am an open employee meaning there is no secret concerning my employment with CIA. That does not mean I endorse Dan [Dan T. Smith, an associate of Pandolfi in the private sector] or others spreading my name over e-mail distributions. Please assist by keeping my name out of your e-mails. Thanks.'"

And a little further down in the same article, CF says:

"'I will cut and run the first instant I get a whiff that some list ... or whomever gets interested in me.'"

That's the answer we get if CF is asked for a public statement. CF will never come forward with any sort of disclosure regarding Aliens, UFO's, or the BPWH - because I suspect that's not at all why he's here. His interest here has to do with "unconventional collections". And if anyone here gets a little too smart, or starts asking the right questions - when push comes to shove - he'll run away.

-Ryan


Immediately - Dan wanted to talk via voice, which we did. Essentially I repeated the points raised in the email, Dan requested our patience with the process...then he sent out the following (which was accurate):

Ok, Ryan and I have had a brief phone conversation resulting in the following agreement, which he will amend as he sees fit:

1. There should be a continuing discussion here about optimizing the protocol of disclosure.
2. That discussion will necessarily entail informed speculation and discussion about what is to be disclosed.

On that basis, Ryan has agreed to bear with these proceedings for the time being.

Allow me then to expand on both of these points in my next response……….


A little later, this:

Ryan,

I suggest we set a date and some check points along the way to measure the progress.

Basically the plan is to attempt to put the squeeze on CF over the next few weeks.

If that doesn’t work then I’ll stand down, until further developments warrant. At least we will have established a public baseline for possible future reference.

As a starting point we can establish the provable parameters of the R&D show, lining up witnesses as needed.

Ryan and I can compare notes on the one hand, and Chris and I on the other hand, and then I’ll present the combined results.

Meanwhile I’ll get some feedback from CF concerning our suggestions about taking this to the next level.

And also we’ll continue discussing a possible non-criminal rationale for the tardiness of disclosure.

Dan



Summary

In short, after all of these exchanges, there followed a back and forth among a number of people, namely Caryn, Ray, myself, Chris, Dan, sometimes Jack and David and a few others. After all of this discussion, triggered, remember, by Caryn's initial "calling Dan's bluff" - it appeared that Dan was trying to bring everyone interested on board. The list started with the likes of Caryn, Ray, Chris & Rick of OM, and a few other email addresses I didn't recognize immediately.

Slowly, as was expected, disagreements could not be tempered. Dan's dislike of "materialists" drove out Ray first. Rick's arrogant comments quickly made me realize that I had much more important things to do than slide backwards and end up working with the incompetant buffoons again. So I've bowed out. And Caryn, believe it or not, shortly decided she wanted no part in it either. Leaving the same original group that there was at the start, with the except of one or two other emails.

This is the explanation of Caryn calling Dan's bluff, and my subsequent support of her, and my pushing for Ron to make a public statement in support of Dan and his blog (knowing perfectly well - it ain't never gonna happen).

Future updates on this will be forthcoming.

-Ry
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Postby ryguy » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:34 pm

Future updates on this will be forthcoming.


Given latest events, it's most likely that no updates will be forthcoming. True disclosure lies elsewhere.

Cheers,
-Ry
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Postby Springer » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:02 pm

Well wasn't that um, yeah... :@@:

I have to give you an "A" in the patience department Ry, dealing with the Messiah is something I have intentionally steered clear of. After listening to the first few minutes of your interview with him my decision was affirmed in my mind. :)

One has to wonder why CF feels the need for this particular middleman when he has so many other resources at his disposal to accomplish his goals. I speculate it's because he simply likes the guy and probably gets a certain amount of entertainment out of the inevitable drama that is a guaranteed side effect of each proclamation and blog entry. ;)

In any case I decided years ago this was a path to nothing more than soap opera styled flights of fancy and certainly not likely to lead to anything of substance within the topic.

It's been my experience that those who claim to be "the way" to disclosure are obviously not "the way" because if they were "the way" then disclosure would have been disclosed wouldn't it? :lol:

All this yacking about "disclosure" is a red herring in my mind, it makes many assumptions taht are as yet unfounded. The primary assumption being that governments have a clue what is really happening. Why does everyone accept that? Where's the proof ?

Every single person I've spoken with over the last 20 years who has been in a position one would expect to be "in the know" in government is just as mystified as we are. Every single one of them.

That points to the opposite of "disclosure" and is genuine evidence by way of reliable testamony. Where is ANY evidence that ANY government has anything to disclose?

Look at the direction Dr Greer has taken, what does that say about his "witnesses"? Maybe nothing, but it sure puts a strange light on the "disclosure" crowd to me.

I think DISCOVERY is a much more viable path than disclosure but that's just me. FWIW... :)

Springer...
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Postby Max » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:13 pm

To add an additional perspective to RY's. I happen to also be part of that list and was part of the discussion.

I have to say we should commend RY for his dogged determination at attempting to arrive at something substantive. Even when baited or disrespected by that clown of clowns, Jake Reason, over at OM, RY, simply kept at it demanding straight answers for straight questions.

Ry eventually removed himself from the process due to the presence of clowns to the right of him, clowns to the left of him, etc.

Another respected researcher soon followed suite for the same reasons.

Still, for a while it looked like we might have found an avenue for CF to make some sort of comment, any comment, pro or con, by presenting him with the opportunity to make it to someone with no credentials, no career to protect: me. In other words, he'd have total deniability, but it would also be a small step. It was not to happen. As has happened in the past, the head clown Reason and his lackey clown Ivo interjected themselves in the process. I simply refuse to work with people of no integrity or honor, so that was dead on arrival. The possibility of a comment from CF to me is not going to happen. OM strikes again. Their self aggrandizement scheme is working, so they must be congratulated for that. Good luck to the R&D&OM show.

RY, please feel free to edit this for content if I have overstepped my bounds, but it just p#%&es me off when these "gentlemen" keep strangling the process for their own self promoting "Reasons".
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Postby Max » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:53 pm

Zep Tepi wrote:Sadly I also do not think it is possible. For some, the issue has nothing to do with finding out the truth but everything to do with having ones own ego stroked. I have seen some vindictive people in my time but the antics and rantings of some leave everything to be desired.

I am at the stage where I expect it from some and it's water off a ducks back. Sad, but it's the way things are. I didn't expect it from others however and it is troubling that I could be so off base regarding the intentions of some seriously troubled individuals. Those individuals couldn't give a toss about getting to the truth and are more interested in seeing their names in lights and ignore everything presented that flies in the face of their own delusions.

I say let them continue on the path they have now chosen, it makes it easier for us to present them as the liars and hypocrites that they are.

No, that wasn't directed at anyone from OM, in case you were wondering.

Cheers,
Zep


These comments turned out to be quite prophetic didn't they?? Except he was wrong about it not applying to OM!!!
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Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:31 pm

Maybe I should have included the word specific in that post you quoted above Max lol.

It was for those very reasons I chose not to participate in those recent "discussions". I had been included early on, and again when Dan had whittled it down to a mere handful of people. Being continuously taken off the exchanges by those clowns however showed me I made the right decision. Watching people making insightful and well-reasoned analyses only to be completely ignored showed me I made the right decision. The fact that the only people making any sense at all have now left the discussion showed me I made the right decision. However, the main reason I wanted no part of those discussions? Read Springer's post above, that says it all perfectly.

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