This Guy Has Explanation For California Gizmos

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This Guy Has Explanation For California Gizmos

Postby Max » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:40 pm

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Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:59 pm

From http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/

I should be clear before I begin, as a final note: I am not interested in making myself vulnerable to the consequences of betraying the trust of my superiors and will not divulge any personal information that could determine my identity. However my intent is not to deceive, so information that I think is too risky to share will be simply left out rather than obfuscated in some way (aside from my alias, which I freely admit is not my real name). I would estimate that with the information contained in this letter, I could be narrowed down to one of maybe 30-50 people at best, so I feel reasonably secure.


I'm not so sure I would be feeling "reasonably secure" when one reads reads the following excerpts from the above site:
(Emphasis added)

XPARC served as one of the models for the CARET program’s first incarnation, a facility called the Palo Alto CARET Laboratory (PACL, lovingly pronounced “packle” during my time there). This was where I worked, along with numerous other civilians, under the auspices of military brass who were eager to find out how the tech sector made so much progress so quickly. My time at the DoD was a major factor behind why I was chosen, and in fact about 30+ others who were hired around the same time had also been at the Department about as long, but this was not the case for everyone. A couple of my co-workers were plucked right from places like IBM and, at least two of them came from XPARC itself. My DoD experience did make me more eligable for positions of management, however, which is how I have so much of this material in my possession to begin with.

{snip}

I worked with these symbols more than anything during my time at PACL

{snip}

My background lent itself well to this kind of work though. I'd spent years writing code and designing both analog and digital circuits, a process that at least visually resembled these diagrams in some way. I also had a personal affinity for combinatorics, which served me well as I helped with the design of software running on supercomputers that could juggle the often trillions of rules necessary to create a valid diagram of any reasonable complexity. This overlapped quite a bit with compiler theory as well, a subject I always found fascinating, and in particular compiler optimization, a field that wasn't half of what it is today back then.

{snip}

I worked at PACL from 1984 to 1987, by which time I was utterly burned out

{snip}

I left somewhere in the middle of a 3-month bell curve in which about a quarter of the entire PACL staff left for similar reasons.

{snip}

So, about 3 months before I resigned (which was about 8 months before I was really out, since you don't just walk out of a job like that with a 2 week notice). I decided to start taking advantage of my position. As I mentioned earlier, my DoD experience got me into an internal management role sooner than some of my colleagues, and after about a year of that kind of status, the outgoing searches each night became slightly less rigorous.

{snip}

There are certainly risks involved in what I'm doing, and if I were to actually be identified and caught, there could be rather serious consequences.


Oops!

One thing I will say however, whomever is behind this "story" are certainly being very creative and have spent a great deal of time in its creation.

When you compare this to the Serpo/Gate 3 shenanigans, you could be forgiven for thinking that the Serpo BS project was thought up by pre-schoolers but this story started in High School.

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Postby Access Denied » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:36 am

Zep Tepi wrote:Oops!

aka TMI^2 (Too Much Irrelevant Information)

Always a dead giveaway. Also, notice this guy’s “documents” are devoid of any security classification markings whatsoever… Oops^2!

[yawn]

(as if the drone pics this was intended to support didn't look fake to begin with)
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Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:45 am

I find it interesting that nowhere in these document exhibits do we see ANY indication of classification markings. If the DoD went to all the security precautions this person describes, it hardly makes sense that NONE of the DoD standards for classified markings of information were applied to the contractor's research report!

In 1986 I was a green engineer working for General Dynamics, Pomona Division and I had just received my first SECRET clearance. This means I had to know what markings should be present in a document (and where) for CONFIDENTIAL and SECRET information. I see none of these such markings in this document. And clearly, this would certainly rise to the level of TOP SECRET if not Special Access Required (SAR)!!

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Postby Max » Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:15 am

Not meaning to embarrass anybody, but just as a study in contrast, here are some more or less typical reactions from our brethren at OM:


1. Oh My God. This is big. Admin, we need a new thread!
Damn, and now I have to go back to work! I'll be back later.
Someone quickly save his entire website before it gets hacked!

2. OMG that story IS A BIG DEAL...did u see those photos of the parts with the same lettering as the drones!!!!!!! I know I'm freaking out, but if this is still a hoax than the hoaxer must be a big time professional CGI artist and scientist....IMO

3. This thread is only for the believers I hope. ;D ;D
And no more cgi this and Halo my a55 that. Thank you so much!!!!!

4. Nothing new is yet up on the C2C website. You would think they would stop the presses for a revelation like this. If it's true this is the tip of the disclosure iceberg. I said yesterday that the Ty sighting could open a pandora's box. Well, it's definately popped open. Mark this day on your calenders. This could be a whole new world and you all saw it begin today!
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Postby Mister Time Bomb » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:06 pm

Didn't the lamer dude say they wrote their own docs in his, ahem, narrative?
I don't see it as an important point, truth be told. It would be sooo easy to put the correct classification on the documents in any event. Most lamers know about TS/SCI (or whatever!) so Im a thinking it was left out for a reason. Beats me why though!

Gotta love these guys!
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Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:03 pm

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Irrespective of whether or not "lamer dude" and friends wrote the documents themselves, they would absolutely have to some kind of classification attached to them!

From a Ray Hudson email to Jack Sarfatti's list earlier today, in answer to an email by Linda Moulton Howe:
By keeping it free of all classified markings, one now has given up any/all possibility of prosecuting anyone who does compromise the material. There would no longer be any traceability to the original classification source (another no-no). Moreover, the documents in question are not even marked with “site sensitive”. What that means should be obvious, but I will explain: it means that a security guard would have NO MEANS WHATSOEVER to identify the document as at all sensitive if it was found during an exit/entry search.

What this person is essentially saying is that documents on the B-2 program (and recall it was black from inception) did not have DoD classifications. I can tell you that is patently false. Here are some resources on DoD classified information marking and investigative/prosecutorial procedures for potentially leaked classified information:

http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA270322

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/d5210_50.pdf

I don’t much care if you believe me, and would expect you to believe whatever suits your interests. But for the sake of the other people on this list I offer what I do to explain how preposterous it is to suggest that classified marking requirements would be waived (and thus, the law broken) for such information. It would literally cause the entire DoD security mechanism to upzip at the seams. And it would give “free reign” for all sorts of people to release all sorts of “classified” information.


That's the way it is and it would be absurd in the extreme to suggest otherwise.

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Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:26 am

It is also interesting to perform a consistency analysis on "Isaac's" writeup on the subject web page. Problems show up, both with regard to the issue of no classification markings, and also for "Isaac's" actual position on the CARET program. Let's take a look at a few:

A couple of my co-workers were plucked right from places like IBM and, at least two of them came from XPARC itself. My DoD experience did make me more eligable for positions of management, however, which is how I have so much of this material in my possession to begin with.
(Emphasis mine)

OK, so this would indicate he was a manager on the project, right? But later we read:

I was also starting to disagree with the direction the leadership wanted to take as far as the subject of extra-terrestrials went. I always felt that at least some form of disclosure would be beneficial, but as a lowly CARET engineer I wasn't exactly in the position to call shots. [/b]The truth is, our management[/b] didn't even want us discussing non-technical aspects of this subject (such as ethical or philosophical issues), even among ourselves, as they felt it was enough of a breach of security to let civilians like us anywhere near this kind of thing in the first place.


OK, so now he distinguishes himself from management by saying he was a "lowly CARET engineer". One wonders which one is true... if either are true to begin with! :) And in the above we also begin to see how he wants us, the reader, to realize just how heavy the security issues were for this program... and yet no clear-cut rules for classified document markings? Let's read a few things he says that may pertain to the security issue:

Of course they spent about 2 months briefing us all before we saw or did anything, and did their best to convince us that if we ever leaked a single detail about what we were being told, they’d do everything short of digging up our ancestors and putting a few slugs in them too just for good measure. It seemed like there was an armed guard in every corner of every room. I’d worked under some pretty hefty NDAs in my time but this was so far out of my depth I didn’t think I was going to last 2 weeks in an environment like that. But amazingly things got off to a good start.


So heavy-handed tactics to let you know you'd better not leak any of this information... yet no mandates for classified document markings? Hmm, forgive me but I smell an inconsistency... but it does not end there:

Of course, nothing with the military is ever that simple, and as is often the case they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. What I mean by this is that despite their interest in picking our brains and learning whatever they could from our way of doing things, they still wanted to do it their way often enough to frustrate us.


Yes, the military does certainly have a set process for doing things... and document markings are not only some of the most particular requirements, but they are often the most frustrating! I can certainly agree with the writer on this... but then again, he wants us to believe there were no document marking requirements imposed on them...

Developing technology for the military is very different than doing so for the commercial sector, and not having to worry about the difference was another way that CARET was very much like private industry.


OK, so now he seems to change his tune, and tell us that maybe the military was NOT as strict in imposing their way of doing things... Which is it, pal?

CARET shined in the way it let us work the way we were used to working. They wanted to recreate as much of the environment we were used to as they could without compromising issues like security. That meant we got free reign to set up our own workflow, internal management structure, style manuals, documentation, and the like. They wanted this to look and feel like private industry, not the military. They knew that was how to get the best work out of us, and they were right.


More contradictions to the above quotes! Military has their way of doing things, but they were going to let them do it their way "without compromising things like security." Right. So the first thing to go would be security classification requirements!?!?! :shock: And we (the Military) will just let them have "free reign" with all documentation... but yes, as he says at the end this apparantly worked because "they were right". Please.

But things didn’t go as smoothly when it came to matters like access to classified information.


Woops! Now the pendulum swings back the other way! So where are those classification markings again??? :lol:

Of course, you were never far from the barrel of a machine gun, even inside the labs themselves


Of course! ;) But then again...

I'd then put the papers under my shirt around my lower back, tucked enough into my belt to ensure they wouldn't fall out. I could do this in any one of a few short, windowless hallways on some of the lower floors, which were among the few places that didn't have an armged guard watching my every move.


My my, how lucky can you get??? And I imagine that since these hallyways were "among the few places that didn't have an armged guard watching my every move", then there is no way you would ever imagine there was something like a surveillance camera in that hallway, right??? Not that surveillance cameras are known to be used in black program areas (they are!). Good thing the DoD are a bunch of bumblers who forgot to put cameras were there were no guards...otherwise I wouldn't have gotten away with this!! :shock:

So, about 3 months before I resigned (which was about 8 months before I was really out, since you don't just walk out of a job like that with a 2 week notice). I decided to start taking advantage of my position. As I mentioned earlier, my DoD experience got me into an internal management role sooner than some of my colleagues, and after about a year of that kind of status, the outgoing searches each night became slightly less rigorous.


And yeah, even though it took 8 months to get OFF the program, no reason to think they would keep an eye on you and what you are doing during that time after you announce you are leaving! Good for you, bub. And I see that now you are no longer the "lowly engineer" but you are back to management. No consistency problem there!

There are certainly risks involved in what I'm doing, and if I were to actually be identified and caught, there could be rather serious consequences. However, I've taken the proper steps to ensure a reasonable level of anonymity and am quite secure in the fact that the information I've so far provided is by no means unique among many of the CARET participants.


And I am also quite lucky that there was a total waiving of classified document marking requirements, which would mean they would know exactly who I was by the document markings (esp. copy #s).

Gosh.... I think this guy is TOTALLY believeable... doesn't everyone? ;)
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Postby jazzed2bhere » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:37 pm

All,

I have spent some time reveiwing RU.

As I revealed in post 131 on the OM boards. I would not jump to any conclusions just yet. We need to create an environment for disclosure.

So with this being said we should Promote, Extract, Compile, and Glean what we can but, IMO this guy is the real mccoy or a real good decoy.

Let me explain:

"I am not interested in making myself vulnerable to the consequences of betraying the trust of my superiors and will not divulge any personal information that could determine my identity."

This would be obviously why you have mislead us by telling us:

"I'm getting old"and "My time at the DoD was mostly uneventful but I was there for quite a while."

Then you went on to say "I'd spent years writing code and designing both analog and digital circuits, a process that at least visually resembled these diagrams in some way. I also had a personal affinity for combinatorics, which served me well as I helped with the design of software running on supercomputers that could juggle the often trillions of rules necessary to create a valid diagram of any reasonable complexity. This overlapped quite a bit with compiler theory as well, a subject I always found fascinating, and in particular compiler optimization, a field that wasn't half of what it is today back then"

Yikes don't tell them everything about yourself. Or are you?

There is more.

You must have been brave or very sneaky to get the documents out.

"armed guard in every corner of every room."

Now I am not saying this guy is smart, but he is. He has completely misled who ever wants to investigate him almost immediately. The documents may not be as old as you might think, and they may be more real than you think.

He is no fool. He is no stranger to code. Was he an armed guard?

I would be looking in another cookie jar. He will not be found. He is not old, and he most certainly did not work for the DoD. He is a rogue.

The package? What are packages any way?

J2BH




Check out my post 131 on OM if you have not already. Both RU and OM's premise is on the right track. Maintane an ambiguous approach, and much will be revealed. ;)
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Postby ryguy » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:01 pm

jazzed2bhere wrote:He is no fool. He is no stranger to code. Was he an armed guard?

I would be looking in another cookie jar. He will not be found. He is not old, and he most certainly did not work for the DoD. He is a rogue.

The package? What are packages any way?

J2BH


Hey Jazzed - excellent points. I don't read OM so apologize if I might have missed anything you wrote elsewhere. But the points you make here are brilliant - he could certainly be presenting a total misrepresentation of where he/she is, as well as who and what they are.

The catch is this. He is contacting people. Those people would have more of an ability to trace him. Of course, they may not want to - because they hold out hope that this isn't a hoax, that it is disclosure of some sort. However - wouldn't any researcher who is being true to themselves and to the spirit of "clean" disclosure (non-hoaxed, non-disinfo) at least perform appropriate due-diligence on the alleged "source"? Or do we trust what we read, assist in marketing and promoting the story, and then ask questions later?

Here's the first thing that struck me about the story, and I've not followed it closely since because of this. I work in a facility for a large aerospace client who manufactures jet and airplane engines. If there's a part within an airplane engine that can be fabricated, machine-tooled, and the like...I've likely seen it.

The moment I saw the photos (max posted them above) my immediate thought was...ok why are people making a fuss over jet engine stators? Those rings look nothing like any alien technology - they look like the type of technology that exists within our aerospace industry today.

Honestly - the device looks to me like someone took some nuts-and-bolts well-machined parts, and put them together...or a model, a small-scale prototype. But other than the sci-fi "look" to it... I'm not very impressed? Although - with that said, it's a nice change from the typical ufo "saucer".

And this isn't to say that this guy isn't legit, and that these photos aren't in fact from a lab conducting reverse engineering, or the like....I'm just pointing out that the technology level indicated in these photos looks like something out of the mind of a b-movie sci-fi special effects team.

But we must keep an open mind, yes? So let's do that and see where this guy is headed. But it's important to remember...a completely open mind becomes a wind-tunnel. And failing to conduct due-diligence is the sign of a researcher more interested in promotion than true disclosure.

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Postby ScaRZ » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:47 pm

We've all heard in this Internet age that we now live in, that nothing can now hold back true disclosure. I think this is a prime example of how wrong that statement really is.
They can play us for fools now better than in the days of old.
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Postby ryguy » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:45 pm

Absolutely.

Hey...if everyone is going to start speculating about the Alien origins of an alleged drone sighting...why don't we speculate about the Alien origins of all drones ever created?

If you ever saw any of these man-made devices flying around in the sky...what would you think? Reverse-engineered alien technology? If so...then you're part of the problem of lack of disclosure - because you let yourself be used as a tool of our government's disinfo/CI apparatus.

Each of these are examples of man-made devices or prototypes:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

By the way - that second one is a "mini-drone" used by the military in the field for surveillance. Very cool. We can only imagine what the latest and greatest ones must look like.

There are more devices being flown, tested, or hovered in our skies than just airplanes. If we're going to keep an open mind, we need to expand our minds to all possibilities beyond "ET technology".

If there's a sighting of a technological breakthrough in flight/antigravity technology, and the government immediately wants to cover up the true origin of the device, what's the tried and true method of disinfo? UFOlogy. Better-yet, if the U.S. goverment wants a foreign nation to think there's been a breakthrough in U.S. antigravity research, again...what's the usual tried and true method of CI? UFOlogy. An "Open Mind" means considering all possibilities and hypothesis - not just the ones that support personal core beliefs.

-Ry
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Postby Springer » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:46 am

Ryan,

I would like to personally THANK YOU for the post above. I hate to type and you, sir, have saved me the duty. :)

mark...
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Postby ryguy » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:56 am

Thanks Mark!

Although who knows, I may eat my words. I just took a look at some of the photos tonight and, well, let's just say that I had no idea how intricate they were - someone certainly went through a lot of trouble to put these together - as people have been saying.

With that said though, I noticed a couple of anomalies that I can only describe as "terrestrial" in nature. On the first of the "linguistics primer" photos, page 119, I recognized a few of the characters from a particular activity of mine from the early 90's...I need to check back and see if they match, but something about some of those characters immediately sparked something in my memory. Need to check that out. Also, someone might have mentioned this already, but those rings certainly appear to be barcodes. Unfortunately there are different types of barcodes out there, different algorythms to decode them - however there are some standards to cross-reference by. And luckily I have a scanner I can play with.

I hate wasting time on this with a lot of other data to follow up on....but now I'm intrigued. I hate it when that happens!

-Ry
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Postby ryguy » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:30 am

Wow...ok they appear to have used something like VSB - Visually Significant 2d Barcoding. It's a method of encoding a massive amount of data into a small space, like an image. You can encapsulate data into pixel patterns, or image patterns...and this one is huge. It would be based on an encoding formula, which would take ages (with a computer, or a genius) to figure out... If that's what this is.

Did I mention I'm becoming very impressed?

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