MAJOR UPDATE IMMINENT

General UFO stories

Moderators: ryguy, chrLz, Zep Tepi

Postby ryguy » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:41 am

Gary wrote:Ryan,

You seem to be mixing multiple issues to complicate a very simple question (a classic counter-intelligence technique):


Gary...I think it's official. You're insane.

"Was a Senior Intelligence Official involved in leaking email messages potentially concerning sensitive matters of national security?'

I think that the obvious answer based on numerous sources, including Reality Uncovered, is an emphatic "yes."


**Wrong Answer**

The Senior Intelligence Consultant stated and confirmed privately to me that the FBI was involved in this investigation. Are you naive enough to believe that the SIO would actually pass any real intel regarding an official investigation to you? You also need to explain why the same SIO would pass the messages directly and then request that they be passed via his proxy?


First of all, Dan...I mean Gary.... you apparently are naive enough to believe the "Senior Intel Consultant" is being truthful and complete. You conveniently disregard his own contradictory private statement to the SIO that the FBI is not interested...."they never are..."

Let me repeat that for you in bold and in caps Gary...so that it gets through....

IN THIS PARTICULAR SOAP OPERA....WITH THESE PARTICULAR PLAYERS.....THE FBI IS NEVER INTERESTED

And your attempt to drum up drama here is pretty lame...to be honest.

Oh wait...they were interested once, in 1988. Case closed in the 90's and they've never looked back. I have a feeling the summary page reads **Crazy Kooks....Ignore at All Costs**

The SIO stated to me directly his plan all along had been to pass the messages through the proxy to Reality Uncovered.


Oh well...I guess he told you 50% truth, and 50% disinfo then didn't he? Wouldn't be the first time would it?

That allegation was passed to us by the person in question, leading to statements regarding the origin of the allegation from at least three other parties, and ultimately verification that it was the SIO's opinion that certain questions about confidential government information had been viewed as suspicious.


Part of the problem Gary, is that you never "get" his dry humor. When he jokes via email, you take it as gospel....I realize men of high intelligence have a difficult time with humor. And that's a compliment. But Gary...honestly...sometimes you take things a *tad* too seriously....he's being sarcastic for Pete's sake. Laugh. It's funny...these clowns who fabricate fictitious characters are a hoot. Come on mate...you can do it...laugh.

In fact Ryan, the messages of concern are all dated within the time frame of September 2006.


Wow...didn't realize everyone was only talking about one specific topic in September 2006. Geez Gary...you sure got me on that one. :roll:

Also didn't realize you had the date/time stamp for his private request to us for information about the harassment - I'd check...but this is getting really old, really fast.

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension


Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:06 pm

Gary wrote:You seem to be mixing multiple issues to complicate a very simple question (a classic counter-intelligence technique):


Spies everywhere, eh Gary?

Gary wrote:"Was a Senior Intelligence Official involved in leaking email messages potentially concerning sensitive matters of national security?'


Nope, and if you had any semblance of rational thought left you would realize that all on your own. "Sensitive matters of national security?" Get over yourself man! You have seen the emails, you have seen the context yet here you are twisting and turning them in order to fit your delusions of a high level conspiracy! You are mixing and matching quotes in a desperate attempt to make a point that just doesn't exist. Hint: none of this stuff is real. It is all part of one massive con job by a group of individuals who have had great success in convincing many people of a reality that belongs, at best, in the pages of a science fiction novel. I find it extremely disturbing and a tad suspicious that you are helping to further this fiction by adding yet more drama and intrigue.

I find the following comment in your email from last night extremely enlightening:

Gary Bekkum Email wrote:...
"My software collated the entire series of related messages into a single pdf file which was the source of my cut and paste job. I may not have been paying close attention while looking for snippets that addressed the point of view of the RU moderators."


That sums it up perfectly. You really have not been paying close attention to anything if your posts here and the messages on your blog are any indication.

Way to go Gary - not only have you succeeded in alienating yourself from the staff here at RU, if last nights stream of emails is anything to go by, you have also succeeded in alienating yourself from one of your closest colleagues of the last few years. It is not my place to clarify that last comment - if that person chooses to do so they are more than welcome to comment here.

Cheers,
Steve
.
Image
User avatar
Zep Tepi
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:59 pm

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:02 pm

Is it at all possible to get back to "our regularly scheduled program"? :)

The tit-for-tat serves no one but the puppetmasters. (IMHO)

Ray
The Universe is an Integrated System. Operational, Functional, and Physical.
User avatar
You Can Call Me Ray
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA

Postby murnut » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:43 pm

I actually enjoyed it...The only thing that could make it better is the ending of the redactions.


The sooner this is all out in the open the better for everyone invovled, I speculate.


I can't get enough....I must be shallow?
"The Conformers are hard to read. They are rocks."
User avatar
murnut
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:35 am

Postby ryguy » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:53 pm

murnut wrote:The sooner this is all out in the open the better for everyone invovled, I speculate.


I agree with you....and with Ray. I suppose in a way you're both saying the same thing...the regularly scheduled program is an effort to get it all out in the open. I'm not sure people realize the volume of what "it all" is...if they did, a year worth of writing wouldn't be considered near enough to cover the 30+ year activities in an appropriate and thorough way.

I can't get enough....I must be shallow?


No...you're inquisitive and intrigued. It's healthy. What's unhealthy is when we start to believe fantasies and postulations by alleged "insiders" without evidence (blaming lack of evidence on CI or "black/covert" ops)....then you end up with delusions and paranoia! :)

Stay vaccinated...take RU at least three times a day and get plenty of rest. :)

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Postby Gary » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:10 pm

Ryan & Stephen & All,

We could certainly run this subject further into the ground, for weeks if not months.

Everyone here agrees that would be a pointless exercise.

This is a forum, presumably established to discuss opinions, and is not in any sense an exercise in journalism.

It is my opinion that the spies, lies and polygraph fiasco remains a blip on the intelligence community's radar screen.

"Just the facts, please."

I contacted the FBI in 2004 regarding contacts with USG intelligence persons. FBI informed me that CIA and DIA persons must follow certain protocols in their contacts with private citizens.

FBI has obtained the headers of messages allegedly sent via DIA servers.

When did RU become involved in this sordid affair?

The FBI routinely issues memos on persons of interest. For example, if you publicly demonstrated as an advocate for peace in the war on terror, you might be seen as a person of interest. Now, I am far from being a card-carrying member of the ACLU, however, the USG documentation at the ACLU site is instructional:

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spyfiles/index.html

Are you truly so naive to believe that FBI would ignore allegations of information trading hands through persons with close connections to sensitive technology research and development, scientists and past and present military and intelligence officials?

It should also be noted that exotic propulsion concepts are of concern, even if imaginary, again from the historical record of the USG. Such concepts may potentially be adapted for offensive weapons development, or used to create the illusion of the same for counter-intelligence purposes, such as this relatively recent USG antigravity experiment:

"The potential of the cutting edge technology that is hoped to result from the confirmation of the experiment being conducted under this effort is of primary interest to the Government...The success of this experiment would be of enormous value to DOD weapons and weapon systems."

Reference:

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dpap/Docs/FY01RPT.doc


Agreement Number: DAAH01-01-9-R001
Type of Agreement: Other Transaction for Prototype
Title: Gravito – Electro Magnetic Superconductivity Experiment
Awarding Office: US Army Aviation and Missile Command (AMCOM), AMSAM-AC-RD-BA
Awardee: AC Gravity, LLD
Effective Date: 25 Apr 2001
Completion Date: 25 Sep 2002
U.S. Government Dollars: $448,970
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

Postby Gary » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:33 pm

Ryan wrote:

First of all, Dan...I mean Gary.... you apparently are naive enough to believe the "Senior Intel Consultant" is being truthful and complete. You conveniently disregard his own contradictory private statement to the SIO that the FBI is not interested...."they never are..."

Really? Hmmm .... DIA may report to FBI unsolicited information provided to them, such as seen in this example:

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/cia%2 ... %20fbi.JPG

***Mod Edit: oversized embedded image converted to link***
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

Postby ryguy » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:44 pm

Gary wrote:Are you truly so naive to believe that FBI would ignore allegations of information trading hands through persons with close connections to sensitive technology research and development, scientists and past and present military and intelligence officials?


Are you truly so naive to believe that they haven't learned that particular "sources" who report (or should we say "cry wolf") about such allegations are, to put it mildly, "disturbed individuals"?

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Postby Gary » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:57 pm

ryguy wrote:
Gary wrote:Are you truly so naive to believe that FBI would ignore allegations of information trading hands through persons with close connections to sensitive technology research and development, scientists and past and present military and intelligence officials?


Are you truly so naive to believe that they haven't learned that particular "sources" who report (or should we say "cry wolf") about such allegations are, to put it mildly, "disturbed individuals"?

-Ry


Which potentially makes them even more dangerous:

"I have independent evidence now that xxxx has been using at least three separate e-mail accounts and false identities and that at least one of his objectives has been to elicit information concerning classified activities at sensitive facilities. Most likely he is just a kook, but he may be a dangerous kook."

An unstable personality/personal situation suggests increased risk of defection, etc.

BTW another example:

"We expect the government will have to make hard decisions about whether to publicly disclose 20 years worth of spying secrets in order to pursue an ill-advised prosecution," the defense team said in a statement last year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... May12.html
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

Postby ryguy » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Gary wrote:Really? Hmmm .... DIA may report to FBI unsolicited information provided to them, such as seen in this example:


I certainly hope the various intelligence organizations share data....if not, then we're in a world of hurt. Repeat after me Gary, "The FBI are our friends....the FBI is nice....we like the FBI...they protect us from criminals and frauds who take advantage of innocent people."


We're still waiting for you to correct this blatant false statement, by the way - where you state that the quote is a reaction to Ron's forwarding of emails to RU...the email you quoted was a reaction to a Dan Smith voicemail implying that he & your (Gary Bekkum's) colleague intended to make his private correspondence public. The email you quoted, in absolutely no way, shape, or form, spoke about or even implied anything about RU. If you don't correct the statement, then we simply must conclude that your misrepresentation of the quote is intentional.

And then there was this later reaction to Ron's forwarding of emails to RU:

"Ron and the Police officer have been cooperating with Internal Affairs, and the Justice Department, and have pledges from them of confidentiality. I am not sure, but I believe it is a federal offense, a felony, for a stated member of the Executive or State governments to disclose publically [sp] information they have requested as official under guise of confidentiality and have furthermore stated is official as part of a federal investigation ... I will of course, also copy Ron of whatever of my and his government server-related emails on the investigation are made public. I have been asked to do that by the persons currently evaluating my Security Clearance as part of my routine 10-year review and pending polygraph."


Furthermore, it is duly noted that you've been quoting excerpts from these exact same emails for weeks/months on your own blog - cherry-picking statements that suit your needs. It appears now that I've simply provided the quotes you've ignored from those emails - you now take issue with the "disclosure" of those emails.

Come on Gary - I thought you were pro-disclosure. Or are you only pro-disclosure when it is ANTI-SIO, and not anti-Scammers Inc? :)

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:24 pm

One could be forgiven for thinking that Gary's sole purpose behind all of these recent posts and emails is nothing other than to get a certain individual into trouble. Methinks Gary is focusing in the wrong direction. Then again, maybe Gary is simply doing as he is told?

"...national security must take precedent over personal issues" right, Gary?

Drama! Intrigue! Get it all at Gary's!

:roll:
.
Image
User avatar
Zep Tepi
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:59 pm

Postby Gary » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:30 pm

"We're still waiting for you to correct this blatant false statement, by the way - where you state that the quote is a reaction to Ron's forwarding of emails to RU...the email you quoted was a reaction to a Dan Smith voicemail implying that he & your (Gary Bekkum's) colleague intended to make his private correspondence public."

Ryan et al:

A. The SIC expressed concerns about a "plan to release."

B. The only "plan to release" I am familiar with involved releasing the messages to Reality Uncovered via a proxy channel -- according to your statement that proxy channel consisted of "he [Dan] & your (Gary Bekkum's) colleague. It was further alleged that the messages would be edited by this channel prior to release to RU.

Your claim that the alleged messages were passed directly by the SIO to RU needs to be verified. You have not provided that verification to the best of my knowledge.

C. The stated intent of the plan re: the alleged proxy channel was to provide the messages to RU. I know of no other plan to release the messages elsewhere. It was certainly never suggested that they be released by Starstream Research. Quite the opposite in fact.

D. I was at no time directly involved in any of the above activities. I was a recipient of copies of some of the messages, as reported elsewhere. The leaked messages provided background for an independent report based upon statements from various individuals that were directly involved. It was a working assumption that the SIO concerns were focused on the use of the UFO soap opera as a cover story for possible espionage activity, as we reported here:

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/spies_like_us.htm

Note this from the above:

A Defense Intelligence Agency booklet titled "Personal Protection Measures Against the Terrorist Threat" warns that "Information about yourself and in particular your employment with the Federal Government should not be provided to Internet user groups, e-mail services, or other web sites. Adversaries through a variety of methods can easily exploit such information about your identity and employer...Unsolicited emails are a good way for foreign intelligence services or terrorists to collect names, ranks, duty locations, job descriptions, IP addresses, and other valuable information on U.S. Government personnel."

The deliberate leaking by Pandolfi of email messages discussing an official investigation was serious enough that the FBI was alerted to the situation.
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

Postby Gary » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:29 pm

This may be the last word I will post on this subject here (one can only hope!) ... Ultimately what matters is that the appearance of an investigation by the Senior USG Official has been challenged (and reported) for numerous violations of standard operating procedure:

"Be aware of the security dangers inherent in these types of solicitations.

Discussing work related material with an Internet group is prohibited under Executive Order 12958
,

pre-publication regulations, and operations security policies. Unsolicited e-mails are a good way for foreign intelligence services or terrorists to collect names, ranks, duty locations, job descriptions, IP addresses, and other valuable information on U.S. government personnel. This information might be used to launch computer network attacks and identify targets of opportunity against DoD persons and installations."

"Any of the following events might mean danger and should be a reason for an immediate report or for seeking advice from security or law enforcement officials:

Surveillance by suspicious persons of federal offices or federal employees performing official duties.

Confrontation with angry, aggressively belligerent, or threatening persons by federal officials in the performance of their official duties.
"

http://www.ncix.gov/publications/bookle ... lProt.html
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:48 pm

Why are you posting guidelines and information about unsolicited emails, Gary? What does that have to do with anything that has been discussed here?

For the record Gary, Executive Order 12958 relates to Classified National Security Information, not the garbage spewed out by the Imaginary Intelligence Agency :roll:

Sheesh!
.
Image
User avatar
Zep Tepi
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:59 pm

Postby Gary » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:10 am

Zep Tepi wrote:Why are you posting guidelines and information about unsolicited emails, Gary? What does that have to do with anything that has been discussed here?

For the record Gary, Executive Order 12958 relates to Classified National Security Information, not the garbage spewed out by the Imaginary Intelligence Agency :roll:

Sheesh!


Note also for the record according to the DIA Document: "work related material" is not specified only as "classified."

"Discussing work-related material with an Internet group is prohibited under Executive Order 12958, pre-publication regulations, and operations security policies."
Gary
Clearly Discerns Reality
Clearly Discerns Reality
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:28 am

PreviousNext

Google

Return to UFOs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron