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Postby Access Denied » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:46 am

Hmm, seems like the more things change the more they stay the same… what’s up with that? Take this excerpt from this 1994 article by Vince Johnson published in UFO Chronicles for example…

The Aviary, the Aquarium, and Eschatology
http://www.think-aboutit.com/ufo/aviary ... uarium.htm

A Conversation with Pelican

In order to give Pelican an opportunity to confirm or deny the eschatological scenario presented by Dan Smith, I gave him a call. Readers who expect dramatic revelations will be disappointed, although Pelican did provide some interesting tidbits.

First, he sounded much younger than I expected. Second, he had a very sharp sense of humor (I had to laugh out loud several times during the course of our conversation). I limited my questions to the subjects of eschatology and the Aviary. His answers seemed forthright -- he didn't seem stressed to avoid any particular topic, and I found him to be quite convincing.

My first question dealt with with Dan's statements concerning dangerous "black" programs that were out of control. Curiously, Pelican responded that "Dan isn't cleared for that kind of information" -- not exactly a repudiation of Dan's story.

Pelican did admit that he talks to Dan frequently -- about physics. When I told him that Dan had been claiming to be a "conduit" for semi-official information from him, Pelican rather ambiguously stated, "He may very well be doing that... I talk to him once in a while and we share information. I really don't tell him anything that's classified or work-related... he certainly isn't functioning in the role of a conduit for me."

I quoted Dan Smith's statement to the effect that "the best place to find fellow eschatologists was in the intelligence agencies," to which Pelican responded "he didn't find any here" at CIA.

I inquired about the status of psychotronic weapons research. Pelican was dismissive of the entire subject, calling it "modern-day shamanism." He also stated that psychotronics is only taken seriously in countries like Russia and China that do not have the rigorous peer-reviewed scientific establishment such as in the U.S.

I raised the subject of Psi Tech, and Ed Dames' risking his company's reputation on his prediction of an overt alien contact in the Chaco Canyon area by the end of August '93. "What reputation? It's a joke... the only paying customer Psi Tech has ever had was Dan Smith himself, who gave Psi Tech $3,000 to remote view a crop circle being made," Pelican responded. I asked about the high-level personnel on Psi Tech's board of directors like Stubblebine and Alexander. Pelican was dismissive of Stubblebine, recounting that Stubblebine's nick-name was "General Spoonbender," due to his belief in psychic phenomena. Pelican holds Alexander in considerably higher regard, however, stating, "he's a friend of mine."

Next, I asked about the Aviary. According to Pelican, the Aviary is nothing more than the product of the somewhat-deranged mind of "Falcon," retired Air Force Captain Robert Collins, who worked in Foreign Technology Assessment in regards to missile technology – not AFOSI as is widely believed. Pelican said that Collins was discharged from the Air Force after breaching the security perimeter at the Manzano nuclear weapons storage facility at Kirtland AFB.

When taken into custody by base security, Collins told them he was there "to meet the President." He was discharged shortly thereafter (Dan says that this incident was orchestrated by Bill Moore, with the hapless Collins left twisting in the wind).

Soon after his discharge, Collins began mailing letters "...with my real name and address on the outside, and my codename on the inside," said Pelican, who considered these mailings such a hoot that he posted them on his office wall for the entertainment of his CIA colleagues.

All in all, an interesting conversation, but I was (as the reader undoubtedly is now) more confused than ever.

Of course, nobody is shocked any more by government denials that turn out to be less than truthful, but as I said before, Pelican was very convincing. He reiterated Dan Smith's proviso that I keep his name confidential -- not to keep him from being deluged by UFO kooks, but rather, so he wouldn't receive unwanted attention from foreign agents -- a condition that I'll honor, even though Pelican's real name is already well known to researchers following this story.

Round and round we go…

[personally I think it's time for another hobby... this one's getting really old quick]
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Postby caryn » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:49 pm

"[personally I think it's time for another hobby... this one's getting really old quick]"

Ditto, AD!

In my opinion, if you’re the type who harbours a fascination with the historical operational functions and mythology behind the great UFO flap and have the intellectual prowess to cut the over abundant chaff from the wheat, then the shenanigans might be of interest…or if you’re into catching a ‘spy’ by his/her toe, perhaps!

If, on the other hand, you’re seeking an explanation that might qualify AND quantify your personal experience, the generic UFO community does not hold the answers and neither do the ‘Intel’ folk.

Here’s a big clue to the current state of play imo…when folk in their droves (including many members of the UFO true believers fraternity) move down the metaphysical/paranormal/shamanic/psychological/consciousness routes as an alternate means of explanation for their UFO/Alien experience, you know something is amiss – no, it ain’t science and doesn’t that clearly highlight what’s missing in the nuts and bolts department?

Of course, the easy cop out for those following the exopo route would be to incorporate a multi-species – multi-agenda conglomerate of Alien intelligences which can accommodate the varying experiential ‘awakenings’…anything from fast whizzy lights in the sky to anal probe wielding bug-eyed critters to the metaphysical/spiritual/angelic experience to lessons in the parenting of green or is that indigo? alien offspring. An image of an alternate version of ‘West World’ just popped into my mind…Eww! But stil, where's the metal?

On that exopo note. Isn’t it about time that our governments imposed a planet Earth highway/throughway congestion taxation on all these visiting craft? I have to pay to drive into my own capital – why should these buggars get away with it?

Again – ditto AD. I think even knitting would be fundamentally more fulfilling than an excursion into the loony, egocentric, cesspoolic, valuable time absorbing world of UFology……ultimately.

Where did I put those knitting needles?……
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Postby Gary » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:58 pm

I need to make one thing perfectly clear: This affair has nothing to do with UFO tales.

It is about the possible use or mis-use of taxpayer funded government channels (DIA) for either real or bogus personal investigations.

It is about the recruitment or use as "cutouts" of certain Internet journalists/researchers/investigators and their messages/posts/articles to monitor technology developments, pass information, and engage in espionage to collect intelligence on sensitive information, either for personal or official reasons.

BTW -- I am not yet prepared to announce that Dan Smith is a NOC (Non-Official Cover agency operative) -- although it is obvious Dan is one of the best performance artists out there :-)

Final words for today: "Really sloppy work."
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Postby Access Denied » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:52 pm

caryn wrote:In my opinion, if you’re the type who harbours a fascination with the historical operational functions and mythology behind the great UFO flap and have the intellectual prowess to cut the over abundant chaff from the wheat, then the shenanigans might be of interest…or if you’re into catching a ‘spy’ by his/her toe, perhaps!

I am, they were… and I did! 8)

[a real one I'm afraid] :shock:

Consequently I believe my work is done here… :wink:
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Postby ryguy » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:32 am

Gary wrote:Note also for the record according to the DIA Document: "work related material" is not specified only as "classified."

"Discussing work-related material with an Internet group is prohibited under Executive Order 12958, pre-publication regulations, and operations security policies."


Gary....you are so concerned with the communications of a certain Senior Intel Officer in "misrepresenting" the investigation as official. What makes them official - because they come from dia.mil?

DIA emails are certainly monitored, but all information going through DIA email servers are "Unclassified", unless they are marked as official DIA business as "UNCLASSIFIED/FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY". I'm curious, were any of the emails in question marked as such?

Shouldn't you be much more concerned with the following (which I personally consider much more inappropriate):

The Ex-Intel Officer (NOT the SIO) initiated the investigation, using his connections via the National Academy of Science TIGER to query a DIA manager about an alleged DIA employee. When he learned that the name was of a real DIA employee, what did he do? Do you know? Was it inappropriate to do what he did with the identity of a DIA employee?

It appears to me that Gary's concern here is misplaced - he is more concerned about the misrepresentation of the questioning of Doty, than he is about the very real and inappropriate misuse of the name/identity of a real DIA employee....a poor girl who had no interest in UFOlogy and certainly had no interest in having her name/identity stolen and smeared across all of the nut-job UFO forums and email lists as connected to Serpo.

THAT, is what is truly inappropriate here.

If the FBI ever were involved, I suspect they'd be much more interested in those activities, than they would be in an email exchange from a Senior Intel Officer questioning a hoaxer.

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Postby Gary » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:12 am

ryguy wrote:
Gary wrote:Note also for the record according to the DIA Document: "work related material" is not specified only as "classified."

"Discussing work-related material with an Internet group is prohibited under Executive Order 12958, pre-publication regulations, and operations security policies."


Gary....you are so concerned with the communications of a certain Senior Intel Officer in "misrepresenting" the investigation as official. What makes them official - because they come from dia.mil?

DIA emails are certainly monitored, but all information going through DIA email servers are "Unclassified", unless they are marked as official DIA business as "UNCLASSIFIED/FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY". I'm curious, were any of the emails in question marked as such?

Shouldn't you be much more concerned with the following (which I personally consider much more inappropriate):

The Ex-Intel Officer (NOT the SIO) initiated the investigation, using his connections via the National Academy of Science TIGER to query a DIA manager about an alleged DIA employee. When he learned that the name was of a real DIA employee, what did he do? Do you know? Was it inappropriate to do what he did with the identity of a DIA employee?

It appears to me that Gary's concern here is misplaced - he is more concerned about the misrepresentation of the questioning of Doty, than he is about the very real and inappropriate misuse of the name/identity of a real DIA employee....a poor girl who had no interest in UFOlogy and certainly had no interest in having her name/identity stolen and smeared across all of the nut-job UFO forums and email lists as connected to Serpo.

THAT, is what is truly inappropriate here.

If the FBI ever were involved, I suspect they'd be much more interested in those activities, than they would be in an email exchange from a Senior Intel Officer questioning a hoaxer.

-Ryan


Ryan, according to the messages:

"I am not interested in whether you are involved in the UFO enigma and/or working for the CIA, DIA, OSI, or other US intelligence agency. What concerns me is whether you are working for a foreign intelligence service. That has been my sole interest in you from when I first heard your name and it has been the sole focus of my interactions with OSI and FBI concerning your behaviors and whereabouts ... The most likely case is that you invented these sources to cover your unauthorized access to sensitive facilities including Los Alamos and SANDIA where you may have attempted to access classified information."

http://starstreamresearch.com/gao%20lanl.JPG

***Mod Edit: oversized embedded image converted to link***
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Postby Gary » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:28 am

ryguy wrote:
Gary wrote:Note also for the record according to the DIA Document: "work related material" is not specified only as "classified."

"Discussing work-related material with an Internet group is prohibited under Executive Order 12958, pre-publication regulations, and operations security policies."


Gary....you are so concerned with the communications of a certain Senior Intel Officer in "misrepresenting" the investigation as official. What makes them official - because they come from dia.mil?

DIA emails are certainly monitored, but all information going through DIA email servers are "Unclassified", unless they are marked as official DIA business as "UNCLASSIFIED/FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY". I'm curious, were any of the emails in question marked as such?
-Ryan


Sample DIA email:

Image
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Postby ryguy » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:41 am

I REPEAT:

It appears to me that Gary's concern here is misplaced - he is more concerned about the misrepresentation of the questioning of Doty, than he is about the very real and inappropriate misuse of the name/identity of a real DIA employee....a poor girl who had no interest in UFOlogy and certainly had no interest in having her name/identity stolen and smeared across all of the nut-job UFO forums and email lists as connected to Serpo.


You have no idea what I'm talking about, do you Gary? You don't even know the full story - STARTING from the moment a DIA employee's identity was misused.

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Postby Gary » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:40 am

ryguy wrote:I REPEAT:

It appears to me that Gary's concern here is misplaced - he is more concerned about the misrepresentation of the questioning of Doty, than he is about the very real and inappropriate misuse of the name/identity of a real DIA employee....a poor girl who had no interest in UFOlogy and certainly had no interest in having her name/identity stolen and smeared across all of the nut-job UFO forums and email lists as connected to Serpo.


You have no idea what I'm talking about, do you Gary? You don't even know the full story - STARTING from the moment a DIA employee's identity was misused.

-Ry


Ryan,

My primary interest is focused on persons on the USG payroll and their methods, intentions, and interactions with civilians (as well as the allegations of access to USG facilities). I have several volumes of the UFO soap opera back story on file which is not of immediate interest. In fact the entire story is really a side note to the documented USG affair with phenomenology (from telepathy to antigravity) going back to the 1950s.

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Postby ryguy » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:18 am

Gary wrote:Ryan,

My primary interest is focused on persons on the USG payroll and their methods, intentions, and interactions with civilians (as well as the allegations of access to USG facilities). I have several volumes of the UFO soap opera back story on file which is not of immediate interest. In fact the entire story is really a side note to the documented USG affair with phenomenology (from telepathy to antigravity) going back to the 1950s.

Gary


So the portion of the story you are focusing on is "significant" to you....however the portion of the same exact story which provides more of the context and the background leading up to the issues you focus on - you consider not of "immediate interest".

You misquote excerpts from emails as being about topics which they aren't, you focus on the "investigation" of a particular hoaxer, while ignoring the background data explaining the origin of that investigation... Is it any wonder why you continue to flounder around without any answers?

Apparently in those "volumes of" back story, you failed to recognize that the explanation for this particular SIO's interest is obvious from events that took place during the weeks prior to his questioning of a civilian. You focus on the questioning - yet you have no clue as to what the investigation was even about....and the fact that it might have very well been legitimate and important.

Gary - I hope you realize that your position in this matter has made it fairly apparent where you stand in regard to the overall Scammers, Inc scheme. Promoting the "reality" of Remote Viewing for many years...now publicly promoting the point of view of the Ex-Intel Officer who's intent has been to defend the hoaxing activities of Doty and Scammers...

-Ry
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Postby Gary » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:54 am

ryguy wrote:
Gary wrote:Ryan,

My primary interest is focused on persons on the USG payroll and their methods, intentions, and interactions with civilians (as well as the allegations of access to USG facilities). I have several volumes of the UFO soap opera back story on file which is not of immediate interest. In fact the entire story is really a side note to the documented USG affair with phenomenology (from telepathy to antigravity) going back to the 1950s.

Gary


So the portion of the story you are focusing on is "significant" to you....however the portion of the same exact story which provides more of the context and the background leading up to the issues you focus on - you consider not of "immediate interest".

You misquote excerpts from emails as being about topics which they aren't, you focus on the "investigation" of a particular hoaxer, while ignoring the background data explaining the origin of that investigation... Is it any wonder why you continue to flounder around without any answers?

Apparently in those "volumes of" back story, you failed to recognize that the explanation for this particular SIO's interest is obvious from events that took place during the weeks prior to his questioning of a civilian. You focus on the questioning - yet you have no clue as to what the investigation was even about....and the fact that it might have very well been legitimate and important.

Gary - I hope you realize that your position in this matter has made it fairly apparent where you stand in regard to the overall Scammers, Inc scheme. Promoting the "reality" of Remote Viewing for many years...now publicly promoting the point of view of the Ex-Intel Officer who's intent has been to defend the hoaxing activities of Doty and Scammers...

-Ry


Ryan -- it is pointless to continue this until after you have issued your "imminent" "impending" report -- I suggest you pay more attention to official USG documents and policy -- and distinguish carefully between your opinion and the actual facts/events/allegations.

BTW interesting that a "suspicious comment" is enough for FBI to take someone into custody. I imagine comments about unauthorized access to secure government vaults reported by senior USG officials and consultants would also be sufficient to elicit their interest:

Feb. 17, 2008, 9:36PM
L.A. airport terminal evacuated after suspicious comment

LOS ANGELES — An airline passenger was in FBI custody Sunday after his "suspicious comment" forced a terminal at Los Angeles International Airport to be evacuated for two hours, authorities said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5549104.html
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Postby ryguy » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:40 pm

Gary wrote:Ryan -- it is pointless to continue this until after you have issued your "imminent" "impending" report


In other words - the answer is, no you don't know the whole story. Oh...and before you go off on how long "imminent" is taking....at least it won't take US over 15 years to at least find some definitive answers and not simply raw speculation....

I suggest you pay more attention to official USG documents and policy -- and distinguish carefully between your opinion and the actual facts/events/allegations.


I suggest you follow your own advice. Also...you might want to keep in mind that the Stargate files are not gospel....and USG documents exist related to these scams that don't exist in the Stargate files. Remote viewing is a subject that is only ancillary to the big picture. But then...your focus has been so narrowly focused for so many years, I wouldn't expect that in your case it would be very easy to see the forest for the trees.

BTW interesting that a "suspicious comment" is enough for FBI to take someone into custody. I imagine comments about unauthorized access to secure government vaults reported by senior USG officials and consultants would also be sufficient to elicit their interest:


Hardly. You have to keep in mind that the FBI isn't quite as "chicken little"-minded as certain paranoid folks we know.

Feb. 17, 2008, 9:36PM
L.A. airport terminal evacuated after suspicious comment

LOS ANGELES — An airline passenger was in FBI custody Sunday after his "suspicious comment" forced a terminal at Los Angeles International Airport to be evacuated for two hours, authorities said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5549104.html


I can't believe you're even attempting to draw even a vague comparison here. I'm sorry Gary...but truly....I realize, as Caryn has suggested before, you should be afforded some respect because of the number of years you've been at this - but years-in-service doesn't make someone immune to a proper critique of their product. And if this thread is any indication of your thinking process - you've gone downward a number of notches in the "respect" category.

Again...your advice is very, very important - so I'll repeat it back to you and I hope you read it carefully...especially in the case we're currently discussing:

and distinguish carefully between your opinion and the actual facts/events/allegations.


Until you know the WHOLE story (which, I believe this thread has clearly shown that you don't)...you might want to refrain from drawing the kind of conclusions, or even assumptions, that you've obviously drawn.

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Postby ryguy » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:53 pm

Gary wrote:I suggest you pay more attention to official USG documents and policy -- and distinguish carefully between your opinion and the actual facts/events/allegations.


Gary wrote:D. I was at no time directly involved in any of the above activities. I was a recipient of copies of some of the messages, as reported elsewhere. The leaked messages provided background for an independent report based upon statements from various individuals that were directly involved. It was a working assumption that the SIO concerns were focused on the use of the UFO soap opera as a cover story for possible espionage activity, as we reported here:

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/spies_like_us.htm

[snip]

The deliberate leaking by Pandolfi of email messages discussing an official investigation was serious enough that the FBI was alerted to the situation.


Sorry...I just fell off my chair laughing after reading Gary's "advice".... I could list hundreds of examples similar to the above....lol.

Oh the irony...

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Postby Gary » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:38 pm

Ryan wrote: "Sorry...I just fell off my chair laughing after reading Gary's "advice".... I could list hundreds of examples similar to the above....lol. Oh the irony..."

That FBI was notified about the situation is not in question.

That Pandolfi's messages refer to an "official investigation" is also not in question.

Also take note that "email messages discussing an official investigation" is not the same as confirmation of that investigation.

Perhaps you are misreading your own interpretation into other person's words?
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Postby ryguy » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:02 am

Gary wrote:That FBI was notified about the situation is not in question.

That Pandolfi's messages refer to an "official investigation" is also not in question.


**That Gary doesn't know the whole story is also not in question.**

:)

Would you like a full briefing on the events that led up to the email exchanges that you love to quote out-of-context on your blog? It might help you to appreciate the big picture - rather than the narrow focus you have on these few emails you've been provided.

We can also share with you the discrepancies and distortions in one of your favorite sources various (and varied) accounts?

Shall we? I mean....we really weren't going to "go there"....but since you came here like someone lit a fire under your back-side - we're certainly prepared to do so if you plan on continuing to push your misinterpretations and misunderstandings of the overall matter.

Maybe you can ask your source for his opinion on that and get back to us.

-Ry
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