OM and Mouse Trace

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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:39 pm

No it isn't, in way shape or form. To claim that "Google is not going to risk themselves by releasing a plugin that does risky stuff like that." is highly misleading and just plain wrong.

Google has absolutely nothing to do with Mouse Trace and I'm struggling to find any valid reason why Fore would say they have.

Jedd, have you still got that test site up and running? It would be interesting to run another little test.
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby murnut » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:01 pm

If Mouse Trace isn't part of GA...then Bren is lying, pure and simple.


Admin comment:

Mousetrace is/was a promo plugin trial from Google as part of our Google Analytics package.

Read more: http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index. ... z1TDh6uv21
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby jeddyhi » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:14 pm

@Zep
Yep, Still got the proboards forum I made for testing mouse trace. And the trial package of mouse trace I installed is good until August 3rd.

And no, mouse trace is not a part of Google Analytics but is designed to integrate with it as well as Chartbeat, Statcounter and Clicky.
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:22 pm

He's either lying or very misinformed.

Looking into what Fore wrote a little more deeply, he claimed the (Chrome Browser) plugin was released by Google, thereby implying it must be above board etc. Nice idea, but the plugin was released by Mouse Trace, not Google.

Google even states: "Don’t install an app or extension unless you trust its creator. Check the item’s ratings and reviews to determine if it’s trustworthy." (Emphasis added).

As for the permissions required for the plugin to work correctly, "This item can read every page that you visit -- your bank, your web email, your Facebook page, and so on. Often, this kind of item needs to see all pages so that it can perform a limited task such as looking for RSS feeds that you might want to subscribe to."

In addition to this, Google warns: "Caution: Besides seeing all your pages, this item could use your credentials (cookies) to request your data from websites."

Just to reiterate, Google has absolutely nothing to do with Mouse Trace.
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby Access Denied » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:29 pm

Smersh wrote:FYI guys, Fore has just made a lengthy post in the thread at OM, giving the OM side of the story about Mouse Trace.

Nice try but no cigar, from MouseTrace’s own website...

http://www.mousetrace.com/features.aspx

MouseTrace also takes a snapshot of how each page looked at the time of a visit, so when watching a replay you will always see exactly the same page that your visitor did.

Translation: Private messages are exposed.

Smersh wrote:That said, Fore is a moderator there and not an an admin.

Yikes, someone went way out of their way to come up with that convoluted technical “explanation” (read BS) that would no doubt baffle the unsuspecting average user.
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:46 pm

jeddyhi wrote:@Zep
Yep, Still got the proboards forum I made for testing mouse trace. And the trial package of mouse trace I installed is good until August 3rd.


Nice, a thorough testing of what mouse trace can and cannot do appears to be in order :)
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby Smersh » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:11 pm

Access Denied wrote: ...
Smersh wrote:That said, Fore is a moderator there and not an an admin.

Yikes, someone went way out of their way to come up with that convoluted technical “explanation” (read BS) that would no doubt baffle the unsuspecting average user.


Does seem possible dunnit? And if that's true, why give Fore the job of making the "blinding with science" post when he's only a mod, instead of an admin doing the post?
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby jeddyhi » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:23 pm

Fore at OM states:
What would happen if Admin tried to use --> Mouse Trace <-- to read someones PM's?

Well the mouse trace would show a members mouse movement from the start of their first page load. Lets say the member goes straight to PM. Admin would see the mouse move to the PM box and that would be about it. There would likely be an error as:

A) Admin is not logged in as that member. (Proboards does not give even Admins direct access to member accounts. The reason: security!)

B) The proboards server would find that Admin doesn't have the proper "token" or "cookie" to access a members "session ID". What results is a blank page with an error screen.

C) Keep in mind that probaords is not very fancy as far as boards software goes. It does not allow you to save a PM unless you've sent it. Even then, the session expires after a while. If you aren't logged in with the right member account, it doesn't let you even go back to see it.

If you read up on computer news and the topic of browser and web security you'll see how much protection has been put into browsers and servers to keep such things from happening.

Google is not going to risk themselves by releasing a plugin that does risky stuff like that.



Read more: http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index. ... z1TDxMml1c


Ok, let me see if I can understand this. Fore says that Admin would not see anything because he would not be logged in as that member. Well, no he wouldn't be. Admin of OM forum would logically log in to his proboard Admin account. But with that said, Admin would not have to be logged in anywhere on proboards to view mouse traces. For that, he would log into his mouse trace account which logs the traces and saves them for viewing.

The video I posted earlier is me logged into my mouse trace account viewing traces that mousetrace made of my proboards forum. I was not logged into proboards at all. The traces that were made by mouse trace allowed me to view myself opening a PM which I had sent myself as a test of mouse trace. This is why I believe Mouse trace is a serious breach of privacy when installed to a discussion forum.

Here is the video once again for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afhIcUAXsjQ

You may need to view it fullscreen to view it better. The PM says "test run...test run....mouse trace"

Further testing is in the works.
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:23 pm

Indeed JeddyHi, Fore explained something entirely unrelated to the issue at hand.

Registered and sent a pm :)
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby Smersh » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:02 pm

Zep Tepi wrote: ... Registered and sent a pm :)


Maybe you might have well just posted it in the thread there Zep. :wink:
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby jeddyhi » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:23 pm

OMG.......Trace revealed everything, Zep!

I haven't logged into my proboards site yet. I went straight to Mouse Trace to see if it recorded your visit for me. It did. I viewed you making the PM and was able to read what you wrote without even signing into my proboard account. Just by using mouse trace! It also revealed your IP address and browser that you use.

Welcome to the forum, Steveb lol

I am uploading the new trace but I must review it to make sure I keep your IP address hidden from view. I positioned the CamStudio box over your IP address to hide it.

EDIT....I have cropped the trace to only show the activity in the trace box. Your IP is not going to be viewable.
Last edited by jeddyhi on Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby murnut » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:36 pm

Wow!

Lee at OM just posted.....

Ladies and gentlemen, please take a deep breath and re-read the statement below from Admin/Bren. Not only does he explain the situation, he also shows you how to use free script blockers if you are still concerned.

Seriously, folks. Do you really think that any of the staff here have the time and/or inclination to read your PMs...? Not only is it not possible, we all have real jobs and real lives outside of OMF, and that really doesn't leave much time for spying on members.


Read more: http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index. ... z1TEo7ex58
Last edited by murnut on Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:45 pm

Well well well.

Not only does this highlight the lengths OM staff will go to in order to mislead their membership, it also calls into question the complete lack of privacy to individuals afforded by the Mouse Trace program!

Un-bel-ievable!
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby murnut » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:04 pm

How much longer do you think this post by Jon Curico stays up?
I'm almost surprised it is still there.

Interesting discussion going on here about the mouse trace issue:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2114

Read more: http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index. ... e=2#313803#ixzz1TEuOOWFp
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Re: OM and Mouse Trace

Postby JonCurcio » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:15 pm

I deleted my account there, but apparently they felt the need to ban me on top of that...
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