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Postby I.P.Freely » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:55 am

Ok ry and Miss do you think that there is other intelligent life capable of interstellar space travel at all anywhere in the universe? Or do you believe this planit is the only one with life. Or do you think its some where between the two?
"You can either trust people or not. I choose to trust what people say and sometimes I get lied to. If I were to trust no one I would never hear the truth." - James (IPF) Martell
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Postby Hidden Hand » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:59 am

I.P.Freely wrote:Ok ry and Miss ...


No one else is allowed to answer?
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Postby I.P.Freely » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:12 am

no please do by all means
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Postby Troll » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:43 am

Hidden Hand wrote:
I.P.Freely wrote:Ok ry and Miss ...


No one else is allowed to answer?


anyone with a brain
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Postby kiwicocky » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:51 am

toon wrote:I'll take Travis Walton, Whitlley Strieber, Stan Friedman, John Mack over Mathew, Luke, Mark and John- any old time.



So are you saying Travis, Whitley, Stan and John are not Christians then?

Or, if you believe in one you can't have belief in the other?
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Postby Shawnna » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:13 am

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Postby Troll » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:14 am

kiwicocky wrote:
toon wrote:I'll take Travis Walton, Whitlley Strieber, Stan Friedman, John Mack over Mathew, Luke, Mark and John- any old time.



So are you saying Travis, Whitley, Stan and John are not Christians then?

Or, if you believe in one you can't have belief in the other?


i have no idea if they're christian. my advice to you is to believe nothing. and as hiddenhand says:

All hail *TOON*! - the arbiter of truth for the RU forums!
She is close to God, so she can tell us what the truth is!
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Postby Hidden Hand » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:54 am

Belief, Truth, Assumption, and Reason by Craig Duckett
For the sake of truth, assumptions, like beliefs, should be diligently tested, and not merely from one or two mindful overtures, but carefully and conscientiously from a thousand avenues of inquiry. Such is the way of the truth seeker, who advances with caution yet remains unhesitant, angling onward along the wandering path of knowledge, going in whichever direction it leads, ultimately willing to accept the consequences of truth's journey however disenchanting or however astounding.

Truth journeys along a thousand avenues of inquiry, deception walks only one



25 Things to Research If You Want to Learn the Truth Concerning Christianity
Top Twenty-Five Things to Research

1. Ancient Near East Texts/Mythology Pre-Dating the Old Testament
2. The Epic of Gilgamesh and Other Creation/Flood Myths that Pre-Date the Old Testament
3. Zoroastrianism and the Persian Influence on Bible Doctrine
4. The Problem of Evil (Theodicy) and the Hiddenness of God
5. Myths of Dying-Resurrecting God-Men and the Christ Myth
6. Philo of Alexandria
7. The Book of Enoch
8. Gods and Goddesses Assimilated to Become Yahweh and Elohim (El)
9. Natural Empirical Evidence (Science) vs. Supernatural Belief Systems (Faith)
10. This Life vs. Eternity: Weighing in on the Immorality of Heaven and Hell
11. Gospels Not "Historical" Records, but Anonymous Third-Person Narratives
12. The Christian Canon and the "Evolution" of Jesus' Godmanship
13. Saint Paul and the "Re-Creation" of the Christian Myth
14. Israel/Hebrew/Jewish Archaeology
15. Ancient Near East History (Canaanite, Hebrew, Egyptian, Persian)
16. Bible Criticism
17. The Nag Hammadi Library
18. The Ugaritic Texts
19. The Amarna Tablets/Letters
20. The Dead Sea Scrolls
21. The Gnostics
22. The Origin of Satan, Devils, Angels, Heaven & Hell
23. The Jesus Myth
24. Adam, Eve, and the Serpent
25. Critical Thinking


A Thousand Avenues of Inquiry "1000 Reasons That Cast Critical Doubt on the Judeo-Christian Faith"
..a treasury of research and resource information dedicated to an honest examination of belief, the Bible, secular and church history, Christian traditions and doctrines, Ancient Near East mythology and religion, the brain and cognitive psychology, science and the scientific method, creationism vs evolution, critical thinking and practical reasoning, philosophy, and moral and ethical concerns.



The problems with beliefs by Jim Walker
Problems that derive from belief

Although, it can be argued that beliefs supported by scientific evidence represent a benign form of beliefs, they also act as barriers towards further understanding. Even the most productive scientists and philosophers through the ages have been prevented from seeing beyond their beliefs.

For example, Aristotle believed in a prime mover, a "god" that moves the sun and moon and objects through space. With a belief such as this, one cannot possibly understand the laws of gravitation or inertia. Issac Newton saw through that and established predictions of gravitational events and developed a workable gravitational theory. Amazingly, Newton began to think about relativity theory long before Albert Einstein. However, his belief in absolute time prevented him from formulating a workable theory. Einstein, however, saw through that and thought in terms of relative time and formulated his famous theory of General relativity. However even Einstein had beliefs which barred him from understanding the consequences of quantum mechanics. He could not accept pure randomness in subatomic physics, thus his famous quote "God does not play dice." However, physicists now realize that for quantum mechanics to work, nature not only plays with dice, but randomness serves as a requirement if one wishes to predict with any statistical accuracy. And on it goes.

Although thinking without beliefs does not, by any means, guarantee that people will make scientific breakthroughs, it can, at the very least, remove unnecessary walls. Beliefs even at its lowest form of influence can create problematic and unnecessary barriers.
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Postby ryguy » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:35 am

I.P.Freely wrote:Ok ry and Miss do you think that there is other intelligent life capable of interstellar space travel at all anywhere in the universe? Or do you believe this planit is the only one with life. Or do you think its some where between the two?


Thanks for asking IP.... Yes, I believe it with every fiber - that there is intelligent life in the universe. I do believe that some exist inter-dimensionally...in other words they've developed the ability to travel through dimensions so that space and time are no longer a limitation to travel.

I believe Einstein's theories and those who came after him have shown how this is a strong possibility. But I also believe that as we approach understanding these interdimensional capabilities - we will also approach understanding more about ourselves, our origins, and the true nature of god.

I don't think the real question is are we ready for the reality of Aliens. The question is, are we ready to finally look up at god in the face and finally come to understand what it is that makes creation "real", what gives "reality" substance, and what the true meaning of infinity is. I don't believe, as humans, we've evolved to the point where we're ready to set aside our preconditioned beliefs concerning not only god, but aliens, religion, our reality, and our biases - and come to embrace and accept what lies behind the fabric of creation.

-Ry
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"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

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On the subject of theories and claims investigating...

Postby Springer » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:56 am

The fact that due diligence is REQUIRED of those who seek the truth relative to a claim made by another is a given. Verification and re verification from as many sources as possible, is the only way to know what's truth and what is not truth.

One thing I read somewhere long ago about theories that I have ALWAYS tried to practice is the first thing one should do upon forming a theory is work to DISPROVE that theory in every way possible. This is the heart of the scientific method.

When I see someone who is "married" to their theory, in other words, they disregard facts that cast doubt upon the theory or outright disprove it, it is obvious, to me at least, it is no longer a theory but a belief.

Beliefs have their place but certainly NOT in the realm of those who seek the truth behind theories. Only proofs will suffice in that theatre and that is as it should be. To accept a theory because someone has simply stated "it is so" is to be intellectually LAZY or ethically corrupt.

To accept claims based on the hearsay of others without researching their validity by learning of the CREDIBILITY of those who testify is, likewise, intellectually LAZY or ethically corrupt. Ethically corrupt because those who are not lazy must be in line to benefit from such a thing else WHY would they condone it?

Would you rely on the word of a known thief when it came to security of your money? In other words,if you had to trust your money in someone else's hands for a period of time would you let that person be a known thief or would you find another person to hold your money? Would you rely upon the word of a known liar if your freedom was at risk or would you seek out another witness?

A person who proclaims their theory to be above scrutiny is either a very arrogant fool or a charlatan. A person who disregards facts that disprove their theory, and still insists their theory is relevant is either a very arrogant fool or a charlatan.

A person who balks at or refuses to prove his claims, for whatever reason, invalidates his claims. The claim is no longer relevant. Unsubstantiated claims are nothing more than IDEAS or opinions. :)

Springer...
Never argue with an idiot. He'll only take you DOWN to his level and beat you with experience!
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Postby Shawnna » Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:24 am

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Postby I.P.Freely » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:11 am

very good post springer and ry. Ry we think alike on that
"You can either trust people or not. I choose to trust what people say and sometimes I get lied to. If I were to trust no one I would never hear the truth." - James (IPF) Martell
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