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Postby kiwicocky » Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:14 am

Thanks Xena and Hidden for the background on Carter's sighting.

IPF it would seem he may have been used by those who wish to convince everyone of their agenda - musn't go letting any facts get in the way, aye?

Looking behind the myths unearths lots of interesting info ;)

And just look how upset some people get - IMO the truth will stand any amount of research, it doesn't need any bully-boy protection.

I'm not sure which witnesses Toon was referring to - witnesses to oddities in the sky are very far removed from witnesses to ebens and underground bases, etc IMO.
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Postby dragonfire » Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:19 pm

Interesting all this talk, but as it has been stated, there is no PROOF of God, per say, yet people believe :roll: Can't prove it, can't disprove it. Same could be said of anything spiritually, or alien. ](*,)

You can disprove people,and what they say, some will just never go away :roll:
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Postby Shawnna » Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:29 pm

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Postby ryguy » Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:40 pm

dragonfire wrote:Interesting all this talk, but as it has been stated, there is no PROOF of God, per say, yet people believe :roll: Can't prove it, can't disprove it. Same could be said of anything spiritually, or alien. ](*,)

You can disprove people,and what they say, some will just never go away :roll:


There is no proof of god (at least in the scientific sense), and no proof of aliens. But you can judge truth of a matter based on the people who surround the issue. The truth of god is evident in the people who share the stories of his works and in the goodness and deeds of those people. You don't have to dig very deep to find the truth in the words of a humble and kind person who believes in god.

On the other hand, when an issue or claim is surrounded by people who are vile, distrustful, who get caught in a lie at every turn, who are arrogant and full of pride, who sneak around in shadows and play games....you can also judge the truth of a matter (or lack thereof) based on these fruits as well.

You don't need to see a thing to make it true. But you do need a certain number of believable, sincere, trustworthy, and honorable people who will bear witness to the truthfulness of the thing, to make it ring true.

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Postby dragonfire » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:21 pm

Shawnna wrote:
dragonfire wrote:
You can disprove people,and what they say, some will just never go away :roll:


How do you "disprove" a person?

Perhaps "discredit" or "expose their character" is what you meant?

Just want to be sure I understand what you are sharing.


It didn't ryme the other way :roll: :wink:
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Postby dragonfire » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:34 pm

ry wrote:
There is no proof of god (at least in the scientific sense), and no proof of aliens. But you can judge truth of a matter based on the people who surround the issue. The truth of god is evident in the people who share the stories of his works and in the goodness and deeds of those people. You don't have to dig very deep to find the truth in the words of a humble and kind person who believes in god.


Same can be said for those who whole-heartedly believe in ufo's/alien's.

On the other hand, when an issue or claim is surrounded by people who are vile, distrustful, who get caught in a lie at every turn, who are arrogant and full of pride, who sneak around in shadows and play games....you can also judge the truth of a matter (or lack thereof) based on these fruits as well.


Also same can be said, and in both cases it usually comes down to $$$$.
Or are we talking about the government ?:D

You don't need to see a thing to make it true. But you do need a certain number of believable, sincere, trustworthy, and honorable people who will bear witness to the truthfulness of the thing, to make it ring true.

-Ry


Guess what ry, this also happens on BOTH sides.

IMO, it all comes down to WHO you want to believe and WHAT you want to believe. There are always going to be two sides to the coin, it's just some people use one with the same thing on both sides. :wink:
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Postby I.P.Freely » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:02 pm

kiwicocky wrote:Thanks Xena and Hidden for the background on Carter's sighting.

IPF it would seem he may have been used by those who wish to convince everyone of their agenda - musn't go letting any facts get in the way, aye?

Looking behind the myths unearths lots of interesting info ;)

And just look how upset some people get - IMO the truth will stand any amount of research, it doesn't need any bully-boy protection.

I'm not sure which witnesses Toon was referring to - witnesses to oddities in the sky are very far removed from witnesses to ebens and underground bases, etc IMO.


I stand corrected on carter
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Postby I.P.Freely » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:09 pm

The one thing that is there are just too many people with storys for them all to be wrong. And plenty of them are good educated people but they never say anything.
And you wonder why.
"You can either trust people or not. I choose to trust what people say and sometimes I get lied to. If I were to trust no one I would never hear the truth." - James (IPF) Martell
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Postby Shawnna » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:43 pm

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Postby ryguy » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:50 pm

dragonfire wrote:IMO, it all comes down to WHO you want to believe and WHAT you want to believe. There are always going to be two sides to the coin, it's just some people use one with the same thing on both sides. :wink:


The same can be true for both the issue of god and the issue of aliens. I believe the point you overlook dragonfire, is that all too often people are willing to overlook the lies, manipulation and deception involved in a particular claim.

Take a simple claim - the color of the grass, at this very second outside the back door of my house. You've got one side who takes a sample of the grass, photographs it, puts it under a microscope to examine it, and does a chemical analysis on the grass, explaining its color - and provide you with a written report of the entire analysis with all evidence to support it. If there's no evidence, they just continue searching for it.

Then you've got the "other" side of the coin that takes a look at the green grass and says that it's actually blue but our perceptions have been modified by subliminal waves from underground government bases created to control the human population. No evidence, no analysis, no sources to back up the claims... And then they proceed to create their own evidence, lie about the sources, fabricate a background for themselves, etc....

Yup...you can certainly believe whatever side you want to believe Dragonfire. That's completely up to you. But the two sides of the coin are absolutely not the same. Far from it.
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Postby Shawnna » Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:17 pm

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Postby Troll » Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:47 pm

says Ryan:
The same can be true for both the issue of god and the issue of aliens. I believe the point you overlook dragonfire, is that all too often people are willing to overlook the lies, manipulation and deception involved in a particular claim.



It seems you might as well be referring to Christianity here. 'Manipulation, deception.....'

The fact is that there is abundantly more evidence for Ufology than for Christianity.


To wit: the virgin birth

I'll take Travis Walton, Whitlley Strieber, Stan Friedman, John Mack over Mathew, Luke, Mark and John- any old time.
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Postby dragonfire » Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:10 pm

Ry,
:bgthbup: That was beautiful :NTWRTHY And that's why people dig into this here rabbit hole. (Pretend there's are rabbit icon here.)

Who has what ,and where is it coming from? Ahhh, the million dollar question.

That's why I stay in the middle, although I think there's more of a chance of Alien's than of a God. Oh yeah, IMO :wink:

Everyone seems to be hanging here, I always thought everyone hung out by the water cooler, hmmm
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Postby ryguy » Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:41 pm

dragonfire wrote:Everyone seems to be hanging here, I always thought everyone hung out by the water cooler, hmmm


Isn't the water cooler usually right by the latrine? :)

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Postby Troll » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:46 am

Xena wrote:HI, just a quick flypast as I don't have much time these days.

ipfreely:
Heres one creditable witness Jimmy Carter, do you think he is lieing?


Kiwi here's a link to part of an "official" statement lodged at Nicap. http://www.cohenufo.org/Carter/carter_abvtopsec.htm

There's possibly a better more complete example elsewhere.

I personaly could not say he was lying about what he saw but that the statement doesn't provide proof of alien presence or Roswell, only a UFO or object in the sky. There is little to support the statement with a view to labelling the object viewed as anything else. It could be terrestrial/military, or from somewhere out there, not much use IMO. Was there any other statement that I might be missing?



I've worked many times with Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter. Habitat for Humanity. We've swung hammers together. Jimmy Carter is the most genuine and honest human that I've ever met. I've asked him about his sighting. He has always stood by his account.
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