OM flame! Breaking News!!

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OM flame! Breaking News!!

Postby wetsystems » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:28 am

This posted yesterday on OM by RW Wiggins:

Re: CARET: A Northrop-Grumman manager comments
« Reply #25 on Today at 9:28am »
Interesting. My post was completely removed. Not redacted, no attempt to contact me, just ... deleted.

"Open Minds", indeed.

Please delete my user account, effective immediately, as my input seems to "threaten" your paradigm. Of course, obfuscate and label me as a "disinformation agent" or whatever tired and lame excuse for your unwillingness to accept reason, rationality and truth.

For the record, I wrote one post stating the job description of a subcontract manager for Northrup-Grummond. I also stated my opinion that anyone who actually worked for them would never issue any statement with their employer, NG, identified. That is a career terminator. I also stated that no one with the requisite security clearances would also never issue statements as that would result in an immediate revocation of the requisite security clearance.

I did not insult anyone. I did not do anything to anyone, unless you want to call the above paragraph "abusive". For my effort, I was deleted.

Rather than accepting my information for what it was, an attempt to get at the truth of the matter, my post was deleted. Again, there was no attempt at discussion or any contact whatsoever. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that the "Open Minds" forum is not so open minded after all.

I have contacted the pertinent department at NG and have apprised them of the situation. Needless to say, they are very upset and rightly so.

In parting, it is absolutely no wonder that you are exactly the sort of people whom the intelligence agencies adore using - and use you, they do.


It worth noting further that the crack OM Investigation Staff also flushed Wetsystems down that same wet hole. Were Wiggins and Systems the same guy? The Chief Inquisitor apparently believed so. Go figure.
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Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:08 pm

I wish I'd seen the post that was deleted.

One of our researchers works for NG and he also said essentially the same thing as above. I was extremely surprised to see what Bren had posted so apprised him of the situation. Expect an update to follow either later today or tomorrow.

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Postby wetsystems » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:37 pm

Zep Tepi wrote:I wish I'd seen the post that was deleted.

One of our researchers works for NG and he also said essentially the same thing as above. I was extremely surprised to see what Bren had posted so apprised him of the situation. Expect an update to follow either later today or tomorrow.

Cheers,
Zep


Well, Zep, you obviously have to get up pretty early to beat this guy to the delete button! Nixon could've used him to erase his tapes. And as long as this is the OM flame thread I'd like to add this vis a vis their membership: "What a bunch of gullible morons!" (Of course, feel free to edit that comment if you see fit.) There's no-one left there who respects the truth. More than a year ago it was brought up by a couple of former (read: 'banned') members (you know who they are) that that board was an incipient cult. Nothing has transpired in the interim to challenge that assessment. If one needs to believe one becomes a true believer. Wiggins' comment that the disinfo guys love that forum is well taken. It's fertile ground for every sort of virulent planting.
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Postby ScaRZ » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:31 pm

wetsystems wrote: And as long as this is the OM flame thread I'd like to add this vis a vis their membership: "What a bunch of gullible morons!" (Of course, feel free to edit that comment if you see fit.) There's no-one left there who respects the truth.


Come on Toon you have just called every member at OM a moron. Thanks for calling me a moron as well as YOURSELF........LAST time I looked you were still a member there.

Why do you hang there if you see nothing of value?

If you believe people are not seeing the truth or somehow being deceived,then by all means be a person to step up to the plate and shine a bright light.
Calling people morons only pushes them further away and widens the gap from any point you care to make.

I see NOTHING to be gained just shooting your big mouth off time and time again. This in my book only shows a lack of respect for everyone, including yourself.
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Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:52 pm

I agree completely with ScaRZ' post above. It is wrong and extremely insulting to label the OM membership as "gullible morons" and it won't be tolerated.

Account suspended - again.

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Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:59 pm

Zep Tepi wrote:I agree completely with ScaRZ' post above. It is wrong and extremely insulting to label the OM membership as "gullible morons" and it won't be tolerated.

Account suspended - again.

Cheers,
Zep


For a guy with such an obviously high intelligence, it amazes me that he has continually demonstrated trouble with personal insults. It is typically those who exhibit low intelligence that are the first to resort to personal attacks simply because they have no "game". Toon would be an asset to any civilized discussion (and a worthy adversary) if he could curtail this problem.

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Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:32 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with you Ray. Toon IS a highly intelligent individual and has, at times, an almost "English" sense of humour - which I like lol.

What I don't like however, is the constant baiting and badgering he so often engages in. The sweeping generalization he made above, as ScaRZ correctly pointed out, also included some members of RU, as well as some obviously intelligent posters that aren't members here. I'm not the OM forum's biggest fan (as if you couldn't guess!) and to be perfectly honest, I despise what Bren and certain other staff members over there are doing, but to say that the membership are simply "gullible morons" is just unacceptable.

I'm hoping the more clued-in members over there don't just give up either. It's difficult as it is pointing out the BS, the more that engage in logical arguments and critical thinking the better, IMHO.

In saying all of that, I've just seen JakeReason's latest lies and slander wrt RU Mod Max. Ain't that just typical?

Do they honestly think that Max would enter the exact same details for two different profiles?? I've spoken to Max quite regularly lately with one of the subjects being OM, more specifically that they were accusing Toon of being him, or something along those lines. When Max reads the OM forum, he uses "Anonymizer", the Internet's most widely-used proxy service. I've noticed a couple of the members here have used it also -as have I in the past. Does JR even understand what a proxy is? I think not, based on his "proof".

I will look into this more extensively now. If I find that JR has concocted the "evidence" in order to slur Max and RU, I will make sure every damn forum with interests in the subject area get to hear about it.

Cheers,
Zep

Cheers,
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Postby Max » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:32 pm

Lol! Toon. I tried to tell you! Too bad.

Well, maybe Zep will ban me for this too, but I want to say something. I would NOT call the membership of OM any nasty names. First of all, there are some very intelligent members there with a lot of specialized expertise, ie. photography, CGI, etc. Some are objective, some are true believers and want very badly for all of this stuff to be proven real. That's fine. Everybody to their own. Some look at it as a game and try to put it together as if it was a giant jigsaw puzzle, just enjoying the intricacies of the puzzle itself. That's fine too. Some are pretty skeptical. They don't last long. You can read it in their comments or they just get banned by the gestapo, some temporarily like the shadow, some permanently like me because I hurt their feelings.

The management itself though, is a totally different story than the membership. Not all are as bad as others. Some actually show some level-headedness and intelligence, Jeddyhi included in these. There are others that with a little self de-programming from the cult would be redeemable.

However, there is a certain core, including my buddy Jake Reason, that paragon of investigative skills and intelligence who even accuses his own members of starting hoaxes, (and to my amazement these members continue to post and contribute there) and to some extent Admin as well, who show all of the same signs you see in members of groups like scientology or the Jim Jones Kool-Aid club.

I had volunteered to be the designated dumpster diver for things OM since they frequently try to slam RU or make outlandish false claims as to what RU has done in the past, for example, or about how their traffic is so much higher than Ru, for another example. It's always good to know what your neighbor is doing if he walks around with a can of gasoline and a promise to burn your house down.

They are now scared. Withe the RU announcement that something big is in the works, they are already starting their distractions in an attempt to hide all the sins that they may be implicated in.

Every time I go over there I find myself in a big hurry to come back and take a shower to scrub off all of the feces and slime that some of the so-called Co-Admins spew forth. I no longer feel like doing that, so I'm un-volunteering.

Let them roll in their own pig-sty of their own making, hopefully splattering as few of their members as possible.

I do hope that I run into Reason/Davis at a conference one day. I would love to make his personal acquaintance.
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Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:35 pm

Here is an email from Toon, posted in full.

Dear Steve,

I was about to append to the post a small list of names of OM members whom I consider to be non-moronic.* The moment I pressed 'send' I was disconnected from the forum and summarily banned. Just let me say this: In my original post I offered you the option of editing my statement on the chance that you found it too incendiary even for a thread given over to "OM flames." I notice that Ray received no similar treatment when he earlier compared Alfred Webre's clique to the Manson cult. Why is that? (I take no offense at Ray's comparison- I found it hilarious). Other posters on RU, including but not limited to- Max, Springer, Ray, Caryn, Shawnna, Ry, Zep, Serp et al- have posted similar flames concerning the gullibility of the OM membership and it's administrator many times in the past. None has been banned. The fact is that I've been banned for simply expressing an opinion that most RU members share- and one that is undoubtedly true. I'd appreciate it if you'd post this letter in the Latrine thread (afterall it was designed, as I'm sure you'll recall, with the expressed need to quarantine my posts) so that other members, perhaps even a few who may be sympathetic to my views, may comment on this banning.

Best,

Kim

* These include, but are not limited to the following: Dragonfire, John Hicks, Chris Iverson, Bones, Scarz, Caryn, RWiggins, Shawnna, theShadow, Dan Smith. Out of 1100 members it is a pitifully short list.


My reply shortly.

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Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:42 pm

Btw, from the update posted on the RU homepage:

We already know what to expect from those that do not want to see the truth revealed. It started a week ago and is beginning to gather a small head of steam. So expect to see many ludicrous and untrue statements about us made in the coming days. Anyone in their right mind will see that exactly for what it is. Distraction.


Telling, no?

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Postby ScaRZ » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:23 pm

Zep, I never wanted Toon to be banned. That never was any part of my thinking in my reply back to him. I just wanted him to know my opinion and that's the bottom line.

There are some good people that are members at OM. I just hate it when labels are placed on people. I've heard the SAME labels placed on the staff and members of RU.

If you surround yourself with only believers of a certain mind set what are you accomplishing. The rest of the world never reads your work or hears your voice. If one thinks the truth is not being heard then he needs to enter the prison and free the captives.
What good does it do to preach to those who already believe?
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Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:32 pm

I should stop beginning my posts with "I agree", but I do!

Toon wasn't banned, I suspended his account temporarily. His previous account was also only suspended but he chose to post again at OM while attacking some of the members and staff here - which was why it wasn't re-instated.

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Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:20 pm

For the benefit of Toon:

Toon wrote: I notice that Ray received no similar treatment when he earlier compared Alfred Webre's clique to the Manson cult. Why is that?


Here are my exact words that you are referring to:

Just find your own personal "messiah" and follow him if what he says sounds good? Sounds a bit like what Charles Manson was selling to members of his "family".


First of all, I am drawing an analogy. It should be clear this is not the same as a personal attack on a group of people.

Second, my statement is calling into question the methods that the "leader of the cult" (Alfred Lambremont Webre JD, MEd) uses to justify his position. Criticism of someone's approach is certainly a valid debating tactic. Calling them (or a whole group of people) a "moron" is just a personal insult. It cannot be construed as even an analogical comparison.

Third, I am not calling any of Webre's followers names, although I have my own personal opinion on them. My focus is solely on Webre and his "judicious" (?) use of words to sell his product... once a lawyer, always a lawyer.

See the diff, Toon?
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Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:36 pm

Oh boy, we already knew the OM boys (i.e. staff) were severely limited when it came to their investigative skills, but their latest really does take the (dog) biscuit.

It is claimed that our Max, and the OM user "Vonenckhausen" are one and the same. Their "proof" of this?

Behold:
Image

I'm sensing the OM boys don't actually have a clue as to who "Von Enckhausen" actually is. I'm pretty sure most German Shepherd breeders/owners will know, however.

Hint boys: Try searching for the name on Google. Here's a start for you:
http://www.google.com/search?q=vom+Enck ... art=0&sa=N

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=von+Enckhausen

Before I go any further with the dismantling of their pathetic argument, I want the following question answering.

If, as you claim, Max and "Vonenckhausen" are one and the same, WHY HAVE YOU BLANKED OUT VONECKHAUSEN'S EMAIL ADDRESS?

They've displayed the email Max apparently signed up with, why not the other? Doesn't ANYONE find this slightly 'odd'. I don't, it's yet another example of what they are about.

Different IP addresses.
Different Email addresses.
Famous name
Same birthdate? Actually no, it isn't. Google is your friend.

That is their "evidence"? Yeah, believe it or not, it is.

More to follow shortly.

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Postby Max » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:57 pm

Yeah, another "crack investigation" by Jake, just like when he "proved" I was "dankk" because our writing styles are so similar. LOL!

I'd like to provide the following as to my email address and my on-screen name:
------------------------------------
Dog Information

Reg No.: DL74635603
Name: Max Vom Enckhausen II
---------------------------------------------
Sex: Male
Breed: German Shepherd Dog
Variety:
Color: Black & Red

Markings:
Birth Date: 04/26/1998
Sire: Keno Von Steffen Haus - DL53582004
Dam: Gabi Vom Steffen Haus - DL51733603
Breeder(s): Gary L Hensley
---------------------------------------
That is copied and pasted straight out of the AKC records for my dog. And guess who's picture is on my avatar? Additionally the same dog appears in my old avatar at OM from months ago when I was a member before I voluntarily left in disgust.

Who is von enckhausen? (also some spell it vom enckhausen). Why I'm glad you asked! Lol! If you google his name, you will find dozens and dozens (probably many hundreds) of German Shepherd dogs with that "last name".

They are descendants of the dogs von Enckhausen brought to this country from Germany many years ago to use as breeding stock, and to, in his estimation, straighten out what the American breeders were doing to the breed. HIs name and his dog's names are VERY famous as anyone can see by googling the name.

So, what do we have?
A VERY famous name used as a screen name in a forum.
A different email address.
A different IP #.


Could it be that in a country of 300 million people another fan of the German Shepherd Breed found his/her way to the OM forum? Hmmmm.!?!?

As to the date, I'm going to guess at that, since it is an odd coincidence. It very much sounds like either the date von Enckhausen came to this country or the date of his first breeding. Obviously it has something to do with the man. I'm going to guess, yes guess, because I don't remember back to November of 2006 and what I was doing. It was probably mentioned in a magazine article I was reading at the time when I registered with OM. I'm not going to re-research that for the clowns because I frankly don't care what they think of me. But I can tell you this, It's not my birthday! But according to them I used it in November 2006 when I registered there and then remembered this false date (false for my birthday) to re-use it again in May of 2007. Again.....Hmmmm. Lol! Nobody sees anything wrong with that kind of thinking?


Well, then by all means let's accuse these two people of being the same ones!!!

What a couple of schmucks! It's the typical thing they do with information regarding phenomenology. You're right toon, Asholery is everywhere today!
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