"Sylvester"

Postby murnut » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:00 pm

I defended Kim, only to see him flame out .

I like him, I cant help it.

I did laugh at some of his comments, but not wrt attacks.

I dont support the attacks on anyone.

I think, just my opinion, most take him too seriously about the attacks.

Some of the attacks were mean spirited though

I have never been on the receiving end, so I guess my view is biased.

In private emails I have had with him, he has had nothing but great admiration for Caryn and others that he has trashed in public.

Just my biased 2 cents
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Postby ryguy » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:59 am

Part of the rest of the TRUE story (long overdue) gets told by Zep, at a forum far, far away...

----

Hi Kali, give it a go?
I came here initially because of the things Wayne was saying about Ryan and RU.

The initial posts in this thread pissed me off too, but for various reasons I chose to leave it (for the most part) and put the whole thing down to a bad - and a learning - experience.

As far as being embarrassed to come here because of the information Shawnna published on the serpo.info site, who do you think it was that tipped off OM about the report and the forum in the first place?

Uebrigens, das war ich selber. Na, Chris?

A lot of people have assumed we (Ryan and I) did not want to see that information published on the site. That couldn't have been further from the truth. I knew about Shawnna's report as soon she uploaded a WIP page that included a link to RU. As you will know, all good webstats programs include a list of referring links to your own site. There were several from serpo.info that hadn't been there before, so I clicked on one and saw the report in its draft form.

I was extremely disappointed at the tone of the report, considering everything we had gone through prior to the bust-up and the fact that it was so one-sided. Still, it was Shawnna's side of the story which is why I can't say I was surprised considering our relationship had disintegrated. The more I thought about it the more I thought, "let's just get it over with". The information would eventually become public anyway so why not be the one to dictate the pace. Sure, everyone would have a field day and RU would be this and RU would be that, but it was something that had to be done.

When it all kicked off, I prepared a number of posts over at RU, (as did Ryan) to shed more light on everything that was going on and obviously give our side of the story. Not that which was posted publically, but specific examples of specific events and written with quite a high level of animosity. I feel a lot of things have been said that were unjustified, but also some of it had merit. I decided not to post those in public because quite simply I didn't want to prolong the fighting any further. It wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference anyway.

I have seen the same thing here with my recent posts. I've posted in defense of certain comments and statements but look what happened and look at the upset it ultimately caused. It didn't matter that my own comments were relevant to what was being said, the crosshairs were on me and anything goes. Not that I'm not used to that, but you can see why I initially thought there was no point in pissing against the wind when all that happens is I end up getting wet and smelly.

Obviously, quite some time has passed since then and we have all moved on. Imagine my anger when I see a certain someone come strolling back and bringing it all back up again in a nasty attack on someone I consider to be the best friend a guy could have.

Hypocrisy.

Wayne has come here and has made one attack after the other against Ryan and I. He has attempted to show people how evil and nasty the RU2 really are, because he was there, so he should know...

Yes Wayne was there, but had a MUCH larger role than the fantasy version he has attempted to portray here.

I mentioned further back in the thread that I had been reviewing my emails and chat logs from that period. I was flabbergasted at the stuff he was coming out with so had to go and check just to make sure I hadn't had my memory altered and Wayne was justified in saying the things he was.

Let's look at the most recent example.
How many of your lies and examples of your betrayal of other's trust do you really need to see before you decide to go back to your little corner of the internet and leave us here in peace?


Ah, Wayne the Virtuous, Wayne the Good.

The same Wayne that thought absolutely nothing of using a restricted database in order to "get the dirt" on one of the minor players involved on the peripherie of the Serpo story and then send it on to his colleagues as an example of how good he was. Name, Address, SSN, the works. You know, the very same thing that someone tried doing to Shawnna last year with the exception being this didn't get plastered all over the Internet. He even did the very same thing that Victor did with Shawnna's information by creating a false version of that person's actual circumstances. Was that legal? Was that ethical? The fact that he begged us not to divulge that document to anyone should answer that one for you.

Don't worry, unless he denies it I won't be sending it anywhere soon, nor divulge who the information belonged to or was about. I take oaths of secrecy and confidentiality between "friends" seriously, unlike some.

As for the "Fake Anonymous" episode, where do I even begin? Was I the driving force behind that? Was Ryan? How about Shawnna? Wayne couldn't wait to get his grubby little hands on those "illegal" emails (and him a lawyer too, imagine that!) and use them in order to get the holy grail of the search, the originating IP address of the original anonymous emails. Did Wayne stop there once that objective was achieved? Yeah right he did. He kept on going and going and going. He wasn't interested in getting to the bottom of the story, his sole objective from then on was to make Bill Ryan look stupid in front of everyone on the lists and forums. He even started contributing to the Serpo story itself by inventing material with which to feed Victor! Was that done with our say-so, or did we only get to hear about that after his emails to Victor were written and sent and in most cases replied to? What do you think? Did Wayne tell everyone on the forums or the people he was communicating with privately what he was doing with the fake anonymous account? What's that you say? No?? That makes him better than Tacitus how exactly? One other thing, Tacitus never posed as a Government or Federal insider, either...

I could go on, but honestly, what is the point? It is all one big merry-go-round and people will continue to cherry pick only that information that suits their argument and simply ignore the rest. Insults will continue to be hurled by those that are guilty of the very same thing with which they accuse others, it's pathetic.

A lot has been said about hypocrisy and it is true. It is everywhere.

Now back to the present, you can keep your history if that's what makes you happy.


Cheers,
Zep

---
Last edited by ryguy on Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
---
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Postby Springer » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:55 pm

Good report Ryan but I find it interesting that, in this very forum, you've got people incapable of abiding the TAC of ATS making wild and patently false accusations about myself and my partners simply because they are upset they've been banned.

Not good form IMHO. ;)

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Postby Access Denied » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:59 pm

Springer wrote:Good report Ryan but I find it interesting that, in this very forum, you've got people incapable of abiding the TAC of ATS making wild and patently false accusations about myself and my partners simply because they are upset they've been banned.

That's where you're wrong Mark... for one thing you banned Chorlton and yfxxx simply because they posted that they were leaving ATS because they were fed up with the double standard you use to run it with... it's folks like Lear and Zorgon who are making wild and patently false accusations and are incapable of abiding by the TAC.

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving.
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Postby Springer » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:16 pm

Access Denied wrote: for one thing you banned Chorlton and yfxxx simply because they posted that they were leaving ATS

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving.


That is a completely false statement. Chorlton was warned SEVERAL TIMES as was yfxx, you of all people know that we try to work with people. How many times have I let you back on ATS only to be disappointed? Four? Five? I've lost count.

Not to mention the posting of drama inducing "good bye evil ATS" threads/posts are against the Terms and Conditions.

I am frankly tired of arguing this moot point, as I've said several times we can agree to disagree about how you and the others think ATS should be run but this lunacy about hoaxing GR, using sock puppets (I don't and never have) and the rest of the falsehoods being spewed here are just disgusting and sadly typical.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours as well. :)

Springer...
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Postby Access Denied » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:31 pm

Speaking of sockpuppets this was posted on WW today…

Shawnna wrote:
hibits wrote:With all due respect for Steve Broadbent and his alter ego Bren Burton, it does not require a great deal of 'research' to realize that the Serpo operation is designed to confuse the basic issues of Ufology. The agents are hiding in plain sight- right amongst your respective fora. The hard work has already been done and a simple re-read is all that is required.

SB and BB alter egos??? hmmmmmmmmm

I have often wondered just what the hell is in the water in the UK - that former empire sure seems to breed some characters (and in the case of Simon Gray - sockpuppet characters).

Bill Ryan = UK
Steve Broadbent = UK
Brendan Burton = UK
Caryn Anscomb = UK
ATS Bill Irvin's fake business partner Simon Gray = UK

:shock:
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Postby Springer » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:12 pm

I suppose the Simon Gray on the video from our NYC event the 5th of November was an automaton eh? sheesh...

Or maybe a hologram? [smilie=to funny.gif]

People are really getting bizarre.

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Postby ryguy » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:35 pm

I can't even....wow.

I'm speechless. And for me...that says a lot. lol

-Ry
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Postby ryguy » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:40 pm

Springer wrote:Good report Ryan but I find it interesting that, in this very forum, you've got people incapable of abiding the TAC of ATS making wild and patently false accusations about myself and my partners simply because they are upset they've been banned.

Not good form IMHO. ;)

S...


Could you quote such a false accusation? Are you referring to the speculation about the use of sockpuppets?

I might need training course on the ATS TAC then, because if you're saying it's against the TAC to make wild and patently false speculation - who is doing the judging as to what is "wild and false"?

What's the saying - what's "Good for the Goose"? If you're allowed to let Mr. Lunatic Lear spout off wild and false nonsense - then these guys should be allowed to counter with speculation of their own. What's "not good form", IMHO, is attempting to silence one group, while encouraging the other.

I am referring specifically to AD's recent banning, the only one I've really followed - in which he did nothing wrong...and certainly was no more harsh toward Lear than Lear has ever been toward others. The only thing he did in that case was to serve Lear his _ss on a platter, and he was absolutely correct and accurate, IMHO.

-Ry
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Postby caleban » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:48 am

People are really getting bizarre.


I agree. And the noticable start era for me was 1992-1994.
But another topic for another place in time.
I am surprised you did not catch the misspelling, above, in your
US partner's name. It should be Bill Irvine, vice Irvin. Once you
go capitalized, you can be searched that way - all three of you.

--attempting to silence one group, while encouraging the other.


See definition for "filter". My personal favorite is this one:
"A filter is a special type of parameter that reduces the volume of the response."
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Postby yfxxx » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:33 am

Springer wrote:Chorlton was warned SEVERAL TIMES as was yfxx,

This is, to all intents and purposes, a blatant lie! At the time when you banned me (BTW, the "yfxxx" account is still not listed as "banned" :x!) my "warning count" was exactly zero! If you count past and long expired warnings (of which I had a total of two, IIRC), you'd have to ban just about everyone, I guess. So saying I was banned "after several warnings" is effectively BS.

Anyway...
Not to mention the posting of drama inducing "good bye evil ATS" threads/posts are against the Terms and Conditions.

Oh, is it?! I just re-read your T&C, and couldn't find any paragraph saying "drama" is forbidden. So you should amend your T&C to say "You will not post anything which might be regarded as negative criticism towards ATS, its founders, or its members" - that would at least be honest!

And just for the record: I didn't really care if I was banned (after all, I said so in my last post) - but what really showed me what a bunch of losers you are was that you deleted my post altogether! That's Soviet-style censorship, where it is defined as impossible that anyone would disagree with the system!

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Postby uberarcanist » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:43 pm

Don't let it get to you, yfxxx, I don't think anyone's really attaching much weight to these soapbox speeches Springer's making against the ex-ATSers here. Why he's wasting his keystrokes is beyond me....just setting himself and ATS up to be a lightning rod of criticism once again.
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Postby Zep Tepi » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:00 pm

With regards to the forum 'far, far away' (lol), if anyone doesn't know what we're referring to, drop me a pm and I'll send you a link so you can go and see for yourself.

Shawnna said this about our not posting the link:
Could it be they are afraid to have the mass of RU fans actually read the dialog and come to their own conclusions?

Nah.... that couldn't be it, could it?


:roll:

More to do with absolutely no desire to promote a pointless pissing contest with all of the associated drama that goes with it. We really do have better things to do. I have made my point in several posts over there and exchanged a couple of pm's with Shawnna explaining why I would no longer be posting there. I appreciated her last pm to me (and email) but was a little disappointed to see some comments that came after that.

Hey ho, onwards and upwards and all that :)

Cheers,
Zep
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Postby Chorlton » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:20 am

Springer wrote:
Access Denied wrote: for one thing you banned Chorlton and yfxxx simply because they posted that they were leaving ATS

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving.


That is a completely false statement. Chorlton was warned SEVERAL TIMES as was yfxx, you of all people know that we try to work with people.
...

Wrong again Herr Gruppenfuhrer Springer. You do like warping the truth to suit your own ends dont you?
I was warned Once. By "Mirthfull Me". Who said it wasnt what I posted that was the problem but the way I posted it. Which basically meant that because some of the ill educated mutts at ATS didnt understand the Queens english they moaned about it.
YOU didnt warn me, you threatened me. I dont take threats from pimpleheads so I left. Simple really.

Not to mention the posting of drama inducing "good bye evil ATS" threads/posts are against the Terms and Conditions.
...

Firstly, speaking for myself I posted NO such Goodbye Evil ATS. I merely made a post explaining to your understanding 'Users' that you were threatening me, issuing ultimatums and trying to Censor me. Strange that you dont trust your Oh so faithfull users to make up their own mind, they have to be spoon fed YOUR idea of reality?
But I wonder if you could point me to the bit in your, Oh So Biblical Terms and Conditions that verifies your statement above?
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