Censorship

Re: The ATS caracks

Postby torbjon » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:34 pm

I would like to dwell in the past a bit and comment upon some of the ATS remarks, especially as they pertain to me, but I have to go to work now (Nola Patrol)... perhaps later on...

I just wanted you to know that I did see them, and I'm not blowing you off...

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Re: Censorship

Postby torbjon » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:59 am

couple of things I wanted to comment on:

One was the "mountain out of a mole hill" line. I always chuckle when I see or hear that.. I'm assuming it was originally created by an urban dweller. I've lost more livestock to mole hills (broken legs) than to mountains. In fact, none of my livestock Ever fell off a mountain.

Little things, like mole hills and viruses, tend to be the most devastating.

The other was the "chink in your ATS argument".

That one there appalls me. That's a fear and terror tactic and I refuse to buy into that... Ever. (oh my god, what will the neighbors say?) bah.

F*ck the neighbors. I don't care what they or anyone else (including my daughter) thinks of me as a human being. I know who I am and that's all that matters to me. I am not going to conform simply because of Fear. And I feel that that is Part of what has been going through Chorltons head lately... the "fear factor". He hasn't struck me as the type to be easily terrorized or bullied, and I feel that that is what he perceived was going down, and he reacted in a way that was natural for him *shrugs*

I find the argument that something that I do Personally, be it a personal habit, personal choice, spiritual or political philosophy, etc. will somehow taint, tarnish or in any way diminish the Facts of the Data to be ludicrous.

It's like arguing that RyGuys religious affiliations make him a nut job and therefore EVERYTHING that he spews from his pie hole is garbage. After all, he believes in GOD for chrissakes, what a nutter, right? He Must be a LOOOOOON *laughs*

Ry, I'm virtually 100% positive that your "chink in your ATS argument" was good intentioned, but it was a scare tactic... no doubt a subconscious one, but one nonetheless. I'm not going to play that game. I'm not going to wear a suit and a tie. I'm going to continue to watch Star Trek because I want to. I'm going to play my violent video games and listen to godless rock and roll because they make me feel good. I am SO going to continue to surf Porn 'cause that turns me on.

If me, or anyone, having a life or making mountains out of mole hills, or being a Drama Queen, somehow taints the FACT that the owners of ATS have yet to change the language of their auto responder (someone will get back to you within 48 hours... and then no one ever does) then please connect the dots for me 'cause I'm too Stupid to see that.

Nola calls, I go
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Re: Censorship

Postby lost_shaman » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:44 am

Chorlton wrote:
This was what I was asked to do by AD:
"Please edit your post to remove the off topic material."
Considering I was replying to an off topic post by LS, why the bloody hell should I?. He never mentioned it being offensive or anything did he? My post of "Get a life FFS" to LS's post WAS on topic. LS changed the thread topic when he made his whingeing whining post, I followed HIS post up with my post, it was on the topic he had made previously



What are you talking about Chorlton?

For one thing AD had already been editing that thread and moving off topic material to a new thread of its own. What was written in the first part of my post on that thread was on topic being discussed in the already derailed thread, pointing out that the thread was derailed. The second half of my post was on-topic with the op, the original intended thread topic. After I posted AD moved the off-topic posts and sent me a PM asking me to edit off-topic material from my post. I then went back to the thread looked it over and then sent a PM to AD telling him that I assumed he would move my post too because now it looked like I was the one who was off-topic in the thread.

I hope AD doesn't mind but here is what I wrote AD in PM.

Hey Tom,

I was wondering about that because after you edited the thread a lot of what I had to say no longer made any sense! I actually look like I'm the one who is off topic now don't I?

I was kinda hoping that you would take what I had to say to the Latrine too.

If nothing else I think my question about posting Jokes/Sports references on other forums besides the UFO forum is important and should be answered not deleted.

IMO, It's BS if people can make jokes about people who've said they've seen something in the atmosphere, but no-one can make jokes about people who think they've seen GHOSTS!!!


At that point, as you can see, instead of editing my post I just thought that AD would move the off-topic part of my post over to the new thread. Apparently before that happened Chorlton saw my post that was in 'editory limbo' before AD could edit it and posted his now INFAMOUS one-liner personal "jab at the ribs" directed to me personally.

The TRUTH is Chorlton that my post was in the process of being edited when you decided to take a "jab" at me for it!

As far as I'm concerned a "jab" directed at me personally is off-topic on both threads (if not a Little White Ad Homonym). Chorlton, even if you mean it in Jest as you said, why should we allow threads to be cluttered up with personal "jabs"?

The same exact point I was making about off topic conversation (Comedy/Sports) in the UFO Forum also applies to personal "jabs" in all forums. Are we now going to allow all personal "jabs" to be permitted in all forums, even one liners, as long as the poster of said "jab" believes it is relevant to the conversation and not an insult?

Chorlton, I was only echoing the same point you were making here...

Chorlton wrote...

I would love to sling off at people in the Spirituality forum but I dont. I'm not allowed to and I feel thats wrong but thems the rules.


The point I was making was if it's not O.K. in Sprituallity then why is it O.K. in the UFO Forum?


I feel sorry for AD here in this matter because I know for a fact that he was working to make things right NOT WRONG! Somehow in this process AD deleted a 9 letter one-liner that could simply be re-posted on the now correct thread, but instead of that happening AD is being accused of CENSORSHIP!!!

Chorlton, instead of bogusly accusing AD of censorship why didn't you just post your same one-liner in the correct thread?

You justified yourself by saying I had "changed the topic" when in fact you just reacted to the thread in situ, unfortunately while AD was in the process of editing the thread.
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Re: Censorship

Postby torbjon » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:27 am

lemme know when folks are done wallowing in it. The stuff gets pretty rank after a while, but it don't bother me none, take your time. *shrugs* we ALL gotta get down on our hands and knees and do the dirty deed. I brought a couple of rags earlier, perhaps other folks have some rags we could use as well?

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and if you simply Must have someone to Blame, then follow the finger:

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Re: Censorship

Postby ryguy » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:33 pm

torbjon wrote:If me, or anyone, having a life or making mountains out of mole hills, or being a Drama Queen, somehow taints the FACT that the owners of ATS have yet to change the language of their auto responder (someone will get back to you within 48 hours... and then no one ever does) then please connect the dots for me 'cause I'm too Stupid to see that.


Ok, I'd be happy to. Thanks for asking so politely. lol... Thanks for drawing some sort of connection to my religious beliefs too...I'm starting to get a kick out of that. It's like those political ads on TV that get played over...and over...and over...lol. The other side always fails to recognize how their beliefs could be used against them as well...c'est la vie.

By the way, I'm not an urban dweller...grew up in the backwoods of Northern Maine. Fishin' and huntin' and all that fun stuff. Caught 14 partridge in one season when I was 15...always been proud of that. Urban folk probably wouldn't understand...lol.

I wasn't threatening you or trying to use fear. Listen, I now have a heck of a lot of written content "out there" with my name on it. Do you think I don't carefully consider, with every single word I write, how those words could later be used in some discussion against me? Every article I write, whether it's the 20+ a month at LovetoKnow, the occasional one at Assoc. Content, and even the 10+ I write for other clients each month...in addition to everything I write here - I constantly take into account whether or not what I'm writing reflects what I believe - the value of evidence...the value of science and critical thinking...etc... The reason I do that isn't fear of what people will think of me, it's the importance I place on trying to be consistent so that anything I've ever written before isn't devalued by what I write today. Have I always been successful? Heck no! Is it important to at least *try* to remain consistent? Heck yeah.

My point was very simple. The fact that you wrote that you agree that the deletion of a one-line off-topic post is comparible to the activities that took place on ATS, in my mind that devalues what you've written before now about events at ATS. Maybe that's only because I disagree so strongly that there's any comparison at all. And maybe I'm the only one who sees the earlier writing as being devalued. But...what more can I say. It's what I see, no sense in sugar-coating it.

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-Ry
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Re: Censorship

Postby torbjon » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:18 pm

Ry:

We're in the LATRINE *super mega tickle pokes to the ribs* remember? Hip deep in sh!t as it were... here, want a bite of my sandwich?

When I first came here AD said this section was unmoderated and we could blow off steam and what not:

viewtopic.php?p=17061#p17061

So, what's your problem? You worship a god, that makes you a loon. I worship a pantheon, that makes ME a loon. So what? Care to explain to me how our respective whacked out spiritual beliefs in anyway detract from concrete measurable Facts?

RU member Jacks Dead just recently got the same shaft from ATS that a lot of other people got, including the same auto responder stating a human would get back to him within 48 hours... no human ever did, he was ignored just like the others. This is a documented FACT.

And me, being an unwashed, unkempt, butt scratching, cud chewing Moron detracts from that Fact HOW, exactly?

Ryguy wrote:

The fact that you wrote that you agree that the deletion of a one-line off-topic post is comparible to the activities that took place on ATS,...


ya, yer gonna have to dig up the post where I said anything even remotely similar to that one bub, 'cause I can't find it.

Page one I made this comment:
viewtopic.php?p=21570#p21570

Page two, zip.

Page three: saw my name, so I got involved.

here I suggest we stop acting like a buncha numbnuts and start working on solving the actual problem:
viewtopic.php?p=21618#p21618

here I suggest we stop acting like a buncha numbnuts and start working on solving the actual problem:
viewtopic.php?p=21622#p21622

here I remind Zep that Mods and Owners by their very nature are "special" and more than a little intimidating, that we've all been members in the "member versus Mod / Owner" shoes before, and that that is a Frustrating situation to be in. I also suggest that we stop acting like a buncha numbnuts and start working on solving the actual problem:
viewtopic.php?p=21623#p21623

here I offer some actual solutions to the problem 'cause so far no one but Zep had taken any steps in that direction, and the step he took was a little one:
viewtopic.php?p=21637#p21637

and that brings us to page Four:

I start off that page by saying I saw your little ATS crack and was definitely going to reply to that later:
viewtopic.php?p=21638#p21638

here I point out that the "little things" really are very important, and once again reiterate the Fact that I honestly don't care what the world thinks of me as a human being:
viewtopic.php?p=21643#p21643

and here I once again point out that everybody needs to get down on their hands and knees and put a little elbow grease into solving the problem, restate that Everybody is to "blame", AND, I included some nice graphics for those numbnuts who apparently can't read:
viewtopic.php?p=21650#p21650

With the exception of this post, that is the sum total of my contribution to this conversation...

The gist of the bulk of those posts has been : LET'S GET OFF OUR BUTTS AND SOLVE THE FREEKING PROBLEM!

Now, if you actually LOOK at that last graphic I posted, she's pointing at ME too. I had Nothing to do with that thread... watched it go down but didn't play the game... but I'm willing to suck it up and accept just as much responsibility for it as everybody else (which, currently, is no one). I'm also willing to put some elbow grease into solving the actual problem, (which, currently, no one else seems too keen on doing either)

Right now people still seem hell bent on leather to point fingers, lay blame, and come out squeaky clean (clean in the latrine, HA! what a joke)

I'm getting fed up with people. People Suck.

I'm gonna marry a rubber girl
I'm gonna take her everywhere
She's gonna give me a whole lotta love
In exchange for a little air
In exchange for a little air

I'll never have to show her up
All I gotta do, is blow her up

I'm gonna marry a rubber girl
When I find one my size
She'll have ruby lips, and Reubens hips,
Discreetly vulcanized
Discreetly vulcanized

At the first sign of any aggravation
I'll have the power of immediate deflation

I'm gonna get me a rubber girl,
I'm gonna rub her all night long
With my rubber girl beside me
You know I can be strong
You know I can be strong

People say it won't be easy
But she'll bend over backwards just to please me
(guitar break)

I'm gonna marry a rubber girl
I'm gonna take her everywhere
She's gonna give me a whole lotta love
In exchange for a little air
In exchange for a little air

(fade)

- "Rubber Girl," Pukka Orchestra, 1981

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Re: Censorship

Postby ryguy » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:39 pm

**Ryan will be back to comment when he's recovered from the uncontrollable laughing fit that racked him after reading Torb's last post...**

Torb...all I gotta say is I'm glad you're here. You make this place f**king cool. :)

Cheers,
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Re: Censorship

Postby Access Denied » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:27 am

Chorlton, although you’ve already made up your mind to bail on us, I figure I at least owe you the courtesy of a response to your questions so FWIW…

Chorlton wrote:OK if it was off-topic, if it was that simple, then why didn’t you just move it either to the Latrine or to Chit Hhat with everyone else’s? Why?

Good question… I wish you would have asked “why” when I asked to you edit your post instead of just saying “no”.

Two reasons…

1. If I had simply moved both yours and LS’s posts to the new thread along with the other off-topic posts they would then be off-topic in the new, now on-topic, thread, thus defeating the purpose, so something else needed to be done with them.

2. If LS had agreed to edit the off-topic portion of his post considering I had resolved the issue (off-topic posts ironically) he was complaining about (remember at this point I was waiting for a response from both of you before I did anything) then your one-line off-topic post, devoid of it’s original context, would still be left, thus defeating the purpose, so something needed to be done with it.

BTW had you asked (as LS did) I would have been more than happy to move both of your posts to a new thread in the Latrine if it was really that important to you.

Chorlton wrote:Why did you delete a simple off-topic (your words, not mine) post?

Two reasons…

1. You broke the rules by refusing to edit your post.

2. Furthermore, it seemed clear judging by the tone of your response, you weren’t interested in engaging me in a dialog to otherwise come to a mutually satisfactory resolution.

I’m sorry but I really don’t have time to play guessing games and them’s the rules.

Chorlton wrote:Did you just get the red mist when I replied to your demand?

Well, first of all it wasn’t a demand, I said please and I meant it… but to answer your question, no, sorry. When I put on my mod hat I look to the intent of the rules to guide my decisions, not my emotions if at all possible… although to be perfectly honest your response did bring a smile to my face… as in that’s Chorlton for ‘ya.

Chorlton wrote:Let’s have a clear and unequivocal explanation eh? Because, to date we don’t have one. Its been said you thought it was an Insult but you have stated it was off topic. So what was it?

Off-topic.

Nowhere have I stated otherwise and as far as what Steve thought, at that point I’m not sure he knew I had sent the exact same request (word for word) to LS. Unfortunately one of you was offended by it and the other wasn’t so here we are…

Chorlton wrote:You might have understood why I made the comment, but you certainly did not understand the meaning.

Actually I didn’t care… why would I? It wasn’t directed at me, nobody had complained about it, and you didn’t use any language that nobody here (especially Ryan lol) has used before.

The only “judgment“ I passed on your comment was that was is off-topic and “something” needed to be done with it… exactly what I left up to you.

Chorlton wrote:If it was off-topic then edit it, if you didnt understand what I was trying to say?, then ask. You did neither.

So what are you trying to say? I should have just edited it without asking you to edit it on your own first? That smacks me of the kind of knee jerk censorship we see at that other place.

Chorlton wrote:You demanded I edit it, it wasnt a request, it was a demand.

What part of “please” did you not understand? I’m sorry I didn’t take the time to custom tailor the message so as not to risk offending your delicate sensibilities… it was late so I simply sent both you and LS what I thought was a reasonably polite request…

[link to post]

Please edit your post to remove the off-topic material.

Thanks,

Tom

In hindsight, I will admit, had I known you would react so violently, I probably could have worded it differently.

Chorlton wrote:I (wrongly) assumed you would realise it wasnt an insult, but a simple poke in the ribs.

Ah ha… now I see what the problem was. You know what happens when you assume right?

Chorlton wrote:As stated previously, if I want to insult someone I can do that VERY effectively, if you failed to understand that then you should have asked. I (wrongly) assumed you were worldly wise in most idioms etc and I have been proven wrong. You arent.

Wow, you’re pretty sure of yourself. Hell, I’d be the first one to admit my words don’t always convey my true intentions… especially on the Internet.

[although my wife would argue I come across as a pompous ass all the time]

Chorlton wrote:So, as stated previously, does everyone now have to post with one eye over their shoulders in case they upset someone who doesnt understand the nuances of what they are posting?, or do they have to submit their post to The Mods for anything that might upset someone who hasnt been outside the borders of their respective countries?

What, is this about my avatar?

Chorlton wrote:This is an adult forum, the real world so to speak, I expect common or garden adult language to be used, but we get Blue Peter (or for the Americans, Barney Bear) niceties. We have to temper our postings now for those that might not understand? COME ON !

What, is this about you posting a picture of somebody making a wanking (that’s jerking off for you virgin-eared Americans) gesture? Very grown up… but don’t forget in the end I let you suit yourself.

[P.S. In reference to your last PM my name’s not “Sunshine”]

Chorlton wrote:Pardon me, but as Torb says this is going to happen again.

You bet your ass it will if you choose to break the rules… it’s called moderation. Go ahead and use the n-word… I dare you.

Chorlton wrote:And ,AD, you said:

”To everyone else, if you like drama, I trust you weren’t disappointed.”

Thanks for that, thanks for shitting on my principles and waving them off as a drama. Think before you put your foot in your mouth

Well, no offensive to your principles but we’ve seen this kind of indignance before… your buddy Toon was famous for it.

His modus operandi was to drop a sh*t bomb on us for no apparent reason and then sit back to see how we’d react… hoping we’d make a “mistake” he could latch on to… like a child testing limits… only purely for his own entertainment… I presume because it somehow made him feel better about himself.

Sad thing is he actually had of lot of interesting things to say when he put his mind to it… but sooner or later his inner Troll would inevitably get the best of him.

Chorlton wrote:Everyone keeps mentioning the movement of posts to The Latrine and then Chit Chat, but I have to remind everyone MY POST WASNT MOVED, IT WAS DELETED. Deleted moreover, without explanation to everyone other than me.

Sorry, my bad… just following the rules. As Steve noted, next time somebody refuses to edit their post, the text within the post will be deleted and replaced with “[Mod Edit: reason (e.g. off-topic) material deleted]” and preserved in the Staff Forum for reference.

Problem solved… although in this case I seriously doubt the end result would have been any different.

Chorlton wrote:If I hadn’t shouted, no one would have been the wiser. If some sort of post had been made advising people that a post had been removed along with the reasons that would have lessened my ire, I repeat, If I had’nt shouted no one would have been the wiser.

Not sure the whole world needed to hear about the deletion of a one-line off-topic post but considering this was the first time something like this has happened on my watch… thank you for making RU safe for posting again.

Chorlton wrote:Editting a post is simply that, you edit a post and then leave it. Removing a post completely without explanation to other members is totally disingenuous and is denying the right of others to either read and make up their own minds or at least ask questions.

Agreed.

Chorlton wrote:You are denying the right of others to see at least the gist of what was posted because of your own ignorances or prejudices regarding the common use of the English language, NOT the US language.

In this case you sir are incorrect… language had nothing to do with it and I’m well aware you believe you had frequent problems with that on ATS. That’s why here, if you’re online, we try to give you a heads up privately and a chance to change it before we do anything publically.

Actually, I usually try to take that “kinder gentler” philosophy one step further as I did with Torbjon and the now infamous n-word incident… he wasn’t online but out of respect for his contributions I sent him a PM anyway and didn’t edit his post. It wasn’t until I got up the next morning and he hadn’t responded yet that I went ahead and edited it lest the spiders snag it and somebody use it as evidence of us having a double standard.

Of course I got a load of sh*t for that too…

Chorlton wrote:AD, you stated in your last post:

"You want to talk about censorship?
Pfft…
Try having all 450 of your posts and threads deleted like they did to me at ATS!"

So even you are happy to call deletion of a post Censorship ? Thank you. I rest my case.

You’re welcome. You want to know what else is fun? Try having your posts edited to censor something that exposes somebody‘s dishonesty by replacing it with another false statement by that same person and then being banned so you can’t call them on it…

Chorlton wrote:Its quite clear there is a divide here between "The Management" and "The Plebs", The Forum exists because of "The Plebs", piss them off, make them worried that what they say might be deleted or editted and you are on a very sticky wicket. But the stick has now been waved at "The Plebs" and you cant put that stick away.

Well, I’m sorry you feel that way… I’m not here solely to enforce the rules… don’t forget I’m also here to support you should the need arise.

Chorlton wrote:And now going back to the thread in question I see LS's original post has been deleted ! It wasnt deleted yesterday??. Entire posts are being deleted with no information about why and when.

Well it’s not your post but since you asked…the off-topic portion was deleted with a copy of the original text sent to LS in a PM so he could repost it and take up his issue with off-topic posts or your “Get a life FFS” comment with you if he wanted to. Of course the later is moot now that you’ve left the building…

Chorlton wrote:Curiously there is also a contradiction here as to what some people say or insinuate in PM's and what they then post on the Forum. Aint life strange.

Must be a conspiracy…

Chorlton wrote:Its obvious that both Zep and RY have to back up their own mods, whether they agree or not with the actions, but I would suggest you maybe appoint even another Mod, someone who is more remote, someone who is a little more worldly wise.

Putting aside your insults for the moment, before I became an admin here and was just a humble mod, I posted I would LOVE to have somebody else to do the dirty work so I can concentrate on doing research, responding to interesting posts, and writing articles to help Steve and Ryan with their vision for RU.

Unfortunately, nobody seems willing to take on the responsibility or even stick around here very long…

Chorlton wrote:I would suggest Torb, his earthy common sense is worth a fortune.

LOL… I’ll have you know I’ve already approached Torbjon about making him a mod here a couple of times… he keeps threatening me with a crowbar while yelling something about sleeping with the crabs if I do.

Chorlton wrote:I asked for an apology for the deletion of my post because of missinterpretation or the reposting of it for others to judge. I have seen neither, despite the fudging by Mods who have admitted they made a cockup. A simple "sorry" would have worked wonders and probably solicited the same sentiments from me. I am sorry it happened, but not sorry for what I posted.

Well, I can’t apologize for something I didn’t do and the content of your post is now infamous but if it’s any consolation, I am sorry for the misunderstanding and I’m sorry to see you leave…

However I’d be lying if I said I’ll miss your frequently alarming posts… :mrgreen:

Chorlton wrote:Have a Happy Christmas (haha Im the first to say it)
I wish you all you would want for yourself and your families
Good Luck.

To you and yours as well…

Tom
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Re: Censorship

Postby ryguy » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:39 pm

Excellent post Tom. As I read it, I kept feeling guilty for how much of a demand moderation here is putting on you. Not really fair - but you're really, really good at it... I think your own experiences at ATS honed you into a finely tuned machine when it comes to moderating the forums, so we often leave it to you - but Steve and I should probably start picking up a bit more of the slack with the dirty work.

On this:

Sorry, my bad… just following the rules. As Steve noted, next time somebody refuses to edit their post, the text within the post will be deleted and replaced with “[Mod Edit: reason (e.g. off-topic) material deleted]” and preserved in the Staff Forum for reference.

Problem solved… although in this case I seriously doubt the end result would have been any different.


That's absolutely right, it wouldn't have been any different.

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Re: Censorship

Postby mojo » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:43 pm

at the risk of making myself seem like a trouble maker in your eyes and prolonging the discussion in this thread i disagree that it wouldn't have ended any differently if the process had been better.

hasn't there now been a change because of Chorltons raising of what he felt was a bonafide issue?
would this change have occured if not for chorlton taking umbrage at what he felt was censorship?

Access Denied wrote:As Steve noted, next time somebody refuses to edit their post, the text within the post will be deleted and replaced with “[Mod Edit: reason (e.g. off-topic) material deleted]” and preserved in the Staff Forum for reference.


we may all have a slightly different opinion of why and how things transpired and its not my place to question how you operate your forum ( even though i am :) ), but something has changed because of it.

what is really disappointing from my pov is that Chorlton was one of the reasons that i'm here at all, i don't planning on jumping ship but i think that he deserves some respect for his stance whether you agree with it or not.

btw, i'm not having a shot at you at all AD, just the process, i know how difficult it can be to moderate a forum.

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Re: Censorship

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:06 pm

mojo wrote:what is really disappointing from my pov is that Chorlton was one of the reasons that i'm here at all, i don't planning on jumping ship but i think that he deserves some respect for his stance whether you agree with it or not.


I feel the same way, and am bummed to see him go. Here is the deal the way I see it: Not everyone can "handle" Chortlon's approach, which can be called a "full court press against bogus claims & mistreatment." I like the approach because I, for one, do not believe that people who are propagating hoaxes deserve to be respected just because no one (as yet) has busted them. I tend to be the same way. Invariably, the hard-nosed approach that Chorlton takes will rub someone the wrong way... even some who agree with his approach. And it results in things like this.

I could easily sense AD's frustration with me in my political debates with Ryan (even though he does an admirable job of hiding it with a matter-of-fact tone). I knew that my "push the issue" approach was not winning me points with AD, and certainly not Ryan. But much as Chorlton does, I did not care what people thought of me personally for pushing the issue. The issue was the issue! :? I think it is the same in this case with Chorlton, although I have not followed this thread terribly closely to know the nuances.

"Can't we all just get along?" (Interesting to see where Rodney King is today, and how many more scraps he had with the law!) :)
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Re: Censorship

Postby lost_shaman » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:55 am

mojo wrote:at the risk of making myself seem like a trouble maker in your eyes and prolonging the discussion in this thread i disagree that it wouldn't have ended any differently if the process had been better.

hasn't there now been a change because of Chorltons raising of what he felt was a bonafide issue?
would this change have occured if not for chorlton taking umbrage at what he felt was censorship?


Yeah mojo you're right. Ad has said there will be a change.

But is it 'for the better'? I'm not so sure.

The whole reason I posted on the other thread in the first place was to point out that perfectly good threads shouldn't have to be scarred up just because sometimes for whatever reason people go off topic. I felt and still do feel that is a bonafide issue. But apparently because Chorlton had something personal to say to me about that for raising that issue, a one-liner no less that God-forbid AD deleted [-X ; now AD will make a change that will still leave perfectly good threads scarred forever after off-topic posts get posted that should never have been posted in these threads in the first place! Great. #-o

Chorlton should have known that off topic posts were going to get their own thread via Mod EDIT because that is what I quoted Steve saying and what I too suggested in the post of mine that Chorlton replied to. That was what AD had done as a MOD to clear up off-topic posts in that thread when Chorlton choose to post a one-liner directed at me personally on that thread for suggesting off-topic posts be moved just as Steve had said. Now AD had to deal with Chorlton's one-liner after taking all the time to clean the thread in question of off-topic posts. Instead of posting in the new thread where it was now relevant and un-moderated Chorlton choose to post an Ad Hominem one-liner directed at me personally (probably because I was making an example of Sports being off-topic).

I'm not going to lie to everyone at RU and pretend that what has happened here doesn't bother me. My Name has come up in this thread probably thirty times! I've been talked about by everyone (Poorly IMO) like I'm not even here reading this! No-one has responded to anything I've said so far on this thread even though I'm one of the only people who knew what was going on at the time! I didn't even know about this thread until AD mentioned it to me after I requested my post in question that Chorlton replied to be moved too!

So forgive me if I don't feel that a change for the better has taken place now that AD has been accused of "Censorship" over a one-liner directed at me personally that is resulting in a change in Moderation that will leave perfectly good threads scarred up with Avitars and blank posts that say [Mod: EDIT]. Wonderful! =D>

One of the things ATS had right was that ATS simply didn't allow one-liners, Ad Hominems, off-topic posts on an intellectual basis. If you can't post at least two complete sentences and be on-topic without getting personal then just don't post! Anything less might as well be considered 'Internet' Graffiti and thus intellectually BOGUS.
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Re: Censorship

Postby mojo » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:12 am

lost_shaman wrote:
mojo wrote:at the risk of making myself seem like a trouble maker in your eyes and prolonging the discussion in this thread i disagree that it wouldn't have ended any differently if the process had been better.

hasn't there now been a change because of Chorltons raising of what he felt was a bonafide issue?
would this change have occured if not for chorlton taking umbrage at what he felt was censorship?


Yeah mojo you're right. Ad has said there will be a change.

But is it 'for the better'? I'm not so sure.


i'm not sure its for the better either, but it is change, evolution if you like which may lead to "change for the better" in the long run.
surely thats better than stagnation.

lost_shaman wrote:The whole reason I posted on the other thread in the first place was to point out that perfectly good threads shouldn't have to be scarred up just because sometimes for whatever reason people go off topic. I felt and still do feel that is a bonafide issue.


once again i'm in a 100% agreement with you, i'm not a big fan of off topic posts littering serious discussions, but i don't mind the odd humorous remark within context and hopefully within a post that does add to the discussion.

lost_shaman wrote:I'm not going to lie to everyone at RU and pretend that what has happened here doesn't bother me. My Name has come up in this thread probably thirty times! I've been talked about by everyone (Poorly IMO) like I'm not even here reading this! No-one has responded to anything I've said so far on this thread even though I'm one of the only people who knew what was going on at the time! I didn't even know about this thread until AD mentioned it to me after I requested my post in question that Chorlton replied to be moved too!


i hope i haven't offended you, if i did i apologize. my whole stance is not one of personal characterization, i don't know any of you guy's well enough to do that, my comments are based purely on an issue raised that i thought should receive consideration and a response, nothing more.

lost_shaman wrote:[
So forgive me if I don't feel that a change for the better has taken place now that AD has been accused of "Censorship" over a one-liner directed at me personally that is resulting in a change in Moderation that will leave perfectly good threads scarred up with Avitars and blank posts that say [Mod: EDIT]. Wonderful! =D>


like i said above any change imo has to be better than stagnation, perhaps this change will lead to a more productive process for everyone involved here.

lost_shaman wrote:One of the things ATS had right was that ATS simply didn't allow one-liners, Ad Hominems, off-topic posts on an intellectual basis. If you can't post at least two complete sentences and be on-topic without getting personal then just don't post! Anything less might as well be considered 'Internet' Graffiti and thus intellectually BOGUS.


ahh, thats not quite correct...1 liners are allowed on ats as long as they are on topic and convey the meaning of the post. i've read many posts by mods and owners making that point. if i wasn't at work i'd find some examples for you...maybe later if you don't mind waiting.
i think there is a place for brevity within serious discussions but it's a difficult one to moderate which is why i feel for AD in this situation as well.

a happy medium would be nice but we all have different opinions and perspectives regarding what may and may not be acceptable, as can be clearly seen by the amount of comment in this thread.

anyway, i hope that something good comes from the whole episode to offset the negatives.

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Re: Censorship

Postby torbjon » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:13 am

It dawned on me that this whole thing kinda died out publicly. For the record I'd just like to state that I had a great deal of "behind the scenes" conversations with the RU 3. I, personally, have yet to achieve what could be labeled as "closure", nor am I convinced that any "changes" will be taking place (or, in fact, if "change" is even required, although I did make a few suggestions about T&C wording and operational procedures for board moderation).

I opted to go "behind the scenes" because I feel that I am way too emotional about this issue and am firmly convinced that I have my head deeply implanted into my rectum, ergo I'm having MY tizzy fit in the closet *shrugs* But it has been My Choice, no one forced me or drug me off to the rubber room.

Anyway, I just wanted folks to know that even though all of the "key players" have either split completely or just sorta hushed up for the time being... I'm not really done yet...

Don't have a freekin' clue what I'm gonna do, if anything, but whatever it is it's gonna be slow... and steady...

And you know the thing that Really freeks me out about alla this? I had absolutely NOTHING to do with ANY of it!

Anybody else would just shut up and walk away... "not My problem", ya know?

mmph.

Okay, I go now.

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Re: Censorship

Postby Zep Tepi » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:56 pm

The only thing that needs to change is people's attitudes, IMHO.

As I have said I don't know how many times already, an irrelevant, off-topic post was deleted after the member who made the post refused to edit it in accordance with the board rules.

Where's the problem?
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