John Lear - Is there a breathable atmosphere on the moon?

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John Lear - Is there a breathable atmosphere on the moon?

Postby Zorgon » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:31 am

yfxxx wrote:And now back to "lurk-mode" ...


Well while your "lurking" why not catch up on the latest news about gravity? Considering your 'confusion' on the subject with John... perhaps this will help you understand...

Gravitational Force of the Sun
by Pari Spolter
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby yfxxx » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:14 am

Zorgon wrote:Well while your "lurking" why not catch up on the latest news about gravity?

I know more about gravity than you and your scientifically-challenged buddies can even dream of! You have uttered so much complete bullsh*t about so many topics that I wouldn't believe it without checking if you told me that grass in green!

Before you tell me (or anyone else) to "catch-up on the latest news", you should catch up with the last ~400 years of scientific progress! A few hints for this endeavour, though:
1) Scientific education doesn't consist of watching YouTube videos, or googling for "interesting sounding" keywords!
2) An understanding what the "scientific method" is, and how it is applied, would be very helpful. So you probably better start on that one!
3) Thinking about it, item 2) requires the ability to catch logical fallacies. And although you are an absolute champion in using such fallacies in your "arguments", you're a big-time loser when it comes to seeing them!

Well, thinking about it, all this would take you an amount of time, which could be reasonably approximated by the word "infinite". So you may just as well die with your delusions.

Considering your 'confusion' on the subject with John... perhaps this will help you understand...

John? John Lear?! Last thing I read (a while ago, admittedly) was that his time on ATS was over? Anyway, forget this mentally unstable, hopelessly deluded idiot, who is absolutely incapable of understanding even the simplest concepts of logical reasoning or modern science, and suffers from severe delusions of grandeur. But the fact, that you label my hopeless efforts to hammer a bit of knowledge into JL's two braincells as my "confusion" blatantly shows that you are still the same stupid *sshole as which I knew you when I last read you on ATS!

So, either prove that I (and everyone else who can tell a proper theory of gravity from a Beavis&Butthead cartoon) was "confused" about the subject of (moon) gravity, or SHUT THE **** UP about this subject!

yf
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby caleban » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:40 am

Hear the buzzer ?

that you are still the same stupid *sshole as which I knew you when I last read you on ATS!


Don't matter who is right or wrong. The argument is lost when you resort to a personal attack like that.
By eliminating yourself, Zorgon wins by default.

It also appears that a hidden goal here just may be to see if those who claim to have a higher
standard can be hoisted on their own petard. So far, its three to zero. But I am still cheering
for the home team. We have been down before and still made it thru.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby yfxxx » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:54 am

caleban wrote:Hear the buzzer ?

that you are still the same stupid *sshole as which I knew you when I last read you on ATS!


Don't matter who is right or wrong. The argument is lost when you resort to a personal attack like that.
By eliminating yourself, Zorgon wins by default.

No, he doesn't. He may win in the category "use of formal(*) civilty", but that's one where don't give a rodent's behind about "victory". As for the factual argument (about me alleged "confusion" with gravity, which Z. has brought up as his own choice), he has still nothing to show at all. The last paragraph in my previous posting still stands.

(*)As opposed to real! Being told again and again, that I have no clue about the basics the science I studied (I'm a graduate physicist, and Z. knows it!) is in my view a very strong insult, even if it doesn't formally look like one. And to strong insults, I have always reacted as I see fit - i.e., no physical means (difficult over the net anyway :lol: ), but with exactly the words I deem appropriate for the intellectual level of the receiver. You don't like it? Tough!

yf
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zorgon » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:21 pm

yfxxx wrote:or SHUT THE **** UP about this subject!


So I take it that's a NO to reading that book huh? #-o
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby yfxxx » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:04 pm

Zorgon wrote:So I take it that's a NO to reading that book huh? #-o


I don't listen to advice form a blind man telling me to read a certain book about colours! :P
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby johnlear » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:16 pm

yfxxx wrote:
Zorgon wrote:Well while your "lurking" why not catch up on the latest news about gravity?

I know more about gravity than you and your scientifically-challenged buddies can even dream of! You have uttered so much complete bullsh*t about so many topics that I wouldn't believe it without checking if you told me that grass in green!

Before you tell me (or anyone else) to "catch-up on the latest news", you should catch up with the last ~400 years of scientific progress! A few hints for this endeavour, though:
1) Scientific education doesn't consist of watching YouTube videos, or googling for "interesting sounding" keywords!
2) An understanding what the "scientific method" is, and how it is applied, would be very helpful. So you probably better start on that one!
3) Thinking about it, item 2) requires the ability to catch logical fallacies. And although you are an absolute champion in using such fallacies in your "arguments", you're a big-time loser when it comes to seeing them!

Well, thinking about it, all this would take you an amount of time, which could be reasonably approximated by the word "infinite". So you may just as well die with your delusions.

Considering your 'confusion' on the subject with John... perhaps this will help you understand...

John? John Lear?! Last thing I read (a while ago, admittedly) was that his time on ATS was over? Anyway, forget this mentally unstable, hopelessly deluded idiot, who is absolutely incapable of understanding even the simplest concepts of logical reasoning or modern science, and suffers from severe delusions of grandeur. But the fact, that you label my hopeless efforts to hammer a bit of knowledge into JL's two braincells as my "confusion" blatantly shows that you are still the same stupid *sshole as which I knew you when I last read you on ATS!

So, either prove that I (and everyone else who can tell a proper theory of gravity from a Beavis&Butthead cartoon) was "confused" about the subject of (moon) gravity, or SHUT THE **** UP about this subject!

yf



Hello yfxxx, I hope things have been going well for you.

Regarding our discussion on gravity on the other forum Pari Spolter wrote a book published in 1993 in which she mathematically and with experiments states that Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation was wrong, that gravitational forces are independent of the mass and chemical composition of the attracted body.

In her book Gravitational Force of the Sun she states that the correct equation for gravity is F=a. Where a is the acceleration and A is the area of the circle with a radius equal to the mean distance of the orbiting body from the central body. This is, of course, Keplers 390 year old Third Law (March 8, 1618).

She suggests that the rotation of a star generates its gravitational force and that Newton's concepts of absolute time, and a centripetal force, and Einstein's notions of a merged spacetime, and of relativity of simultaneity are mutually exclusive and contradictory ideas.

She also believes that the radius of inversion is an integral part of gravitation and is quantized.

In a letter to me dated April 16, 2008 Pari says, "When I wrote the book on the Sun I did not expect the resistance that I got from the establishment." That, of course would be an understatement however she has received support from many for her theories including Charles Lucas PhD Physics and David de Hilter. You can read their comments as well as mine on amazon.com.

De Hilster writes, "Pari Spolter not only succeeds in explaining special and general relativity, but then sets about in a clear and concise way in showing their flaws by citing experiments, scientists and quotes from Newton, to Einstein, to more modern contemporaries putting relativity in it's proper place in science and history. With a plethora of references to books, science papers, concepts and scientists, it is a study in well-researched references and boiling it all down to 250 pages.

It is also a great reference book for gravity – one of the great unsolved mysteries of science. Spolter puts out reams of data on the solar system, planets, orbits and the measurement of gravity. And being a mathematician Spolter shows math in the book, but it is in the grasp if the average science buff who studied basic physics in college.

Yet it is a criticism of basic assumption that Spolter points out, not tweaks or slight modifications."

Yfxxx, I have you to thank for forcing me into learning more about physics which has included orbital mechanics and astronomy. My own background in celestial navigation was helpful in understanding Pari's book. I doubt many on this forum know where the longitude of the ascending node might be. Now that Pari has allegedly shred the abominable Law of Universal Gravitation and the fictional properties of mass we can work on how and if the moon is able to have a gravity much more than one sixth of earth and also a breathable atmosphere.

Please don't attack Spolter before you read her book. I am sure that if she could have chosen anybody to represent her on the web it would not have been me. But as always, you are welcome to attack me. :)

But I think God put me on the planet Earth to defend Pari Spolter's "Gravitational Force of the Sun".
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby yfxxx » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:43 pm

johnlear wrote:Regarding our discussion on gravity on the other forum Pari Spolter wrote a book published in 1993 ...

... containing a heap of bovine excrement. Like, e.g., ...

She suggests that the rotation of a star generates its gravitational force and that Newton's concepts of absolute time, and a centripetal force, and Einstein's notions of a merged spacetime, and of relativity of simultaneity are mutually exclusive and contradictory ideas.


... that one! #-o

In a letter to me dated April 16, 2008 Pari says, "When I wrote the book on the Sun I did not expect the resistance that I got from the establishment."

She talks to you about her "theory"?!? Nuff said!

That, of course would be an understatement however she has received support from many for her theories including Charles Lucas PhD Physics and David de Hilter.

One PhD supportting her ... and how many say she's a loony?!

You can read their comments as well as mine on amazon.com.

And you are in no position at all to write a relevant comment on a science book!

... we can work on how and if the moon is able to have a gravity much more than one sixth of earth and also a breathable atmosphere.

These lies from you have been proven wrong again and again!

But as always, you are welcome to attack me. :)

Difficult. You don't even try to defend your b.s.!
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby johnlear » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:57 pm

yfxxx wrote:
johnlear wrote:Regarding our discussion on gravity on the other forum Pari Spolter wrote a book published in 1993 ...

... containing a heap of bovine excrement. Like, e.g., ...

She suggests that the rotation of a star generates its gravitational force and that Newton's concepts of absolute time, and a centripetal force, and Einstein's notions of a merged spacetime, and of relativity of simultaneity are mutually exclusive and contradictory ideas.


... that one! #-o

In a letter to me dated April 16, 2008 Pari says, "When I wrote the book on the Sun I did not expect the resistance that I got from the establishment."

She talks to you about her "theory"?!? Nuff said!

That, of course would be an understatement however she has received support from many for her theories including Charles Lucas PhD Physics and David de Hilter.

One PhD supportting her ... and how many say she's a loony?!

You can read their comments as well as mine on amazon.com.

And you are in no position at all to write a relevant comment on a science book!

... we can work on how and if the moon is able to have a gravity much more than one sixth of earth and also a breathable atmosphere.

These lies from you have been proven wrong again and again!

But as always, you are welcome to attack me. :)

Difficult. You don't even try to defend your b.s.!



yfxxx, I don't know why you treat me so special but if you don't cool it people are going to start asking us to get a room. :)
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:00 pm

johnlear wrote:yfxxx, I don't know why you treat me so special but if you don't cool it people are going to start asking us to get a room. :)


Cute. Personally, I would rather you spend any remaining time you have on this forum actually attempting to back up any of your BS claims. Pick one and provide veridical evidence to support it. And in case you can't use a dictionary to look up "veridical" let me give you a clue: Opinions of others do not count as veridical evidence.

Ready? Set? Go!
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zorgon » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:01 am

yfxxx wrote:I don't listen to advice form a blind man telling me to read a certain book about colours! :P


Hmmm a better analogy would be "A blind man being offered surgery to make him see, and he turns it down"

:roll:

Dang it! What happened to that big post I just made a few hours back? Arrggggg
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby johnlear » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:05 am

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:
johnlear wrote:yfxxx, I don't know why you treat me so special but if you don't cool it people are going to start asking us to get a room. :)


Cute. Personally, I would rather you spend any remaining time you have on this forum actually attempting to back up any of your BS claims. Pick one and provide veridical evidence to support it. And in case you can't use a dictionary to look up "veridical" let me give you a clue: Opinions of others do not count as veridical evidence.

Ready? Set? Go!
Ray


Ok Ray. As I have received a number of requests to back up my claims I feel I now have equitable way to handle it.

You make the challenge and then post what you would accept as final, incontrovertible, veridical evidence. That way we don't start something that can't be finished and that way you can't go around claiming that I can't back up my claims because you have demanded evidence that is impossible to provide.

For instance, one of my claims is that there is a breathable atmosphere on the moon. If you challenged me to prove it and you posted that you would only accept the evidence if you yourself could draw a deep breath of clear, cold moon air then of course, no sense in accepting the challenge because I have no way of taking you to the moon. See what I mean?

Now if you wanted to challenge my claim that people live on Saturn and you post that the only evidence you would accept would be a trip to Saturn to see for yourself, then of course, I couldn't accept the challenge in all fairness as I have no way of transporting you to Saturn.

So to save you a little trouble here Ray, if you plan on challenging me on any of those claims that require impossible to provide evidence you might want to keep them in your BS basket for the time being and be content with telling all your friends that "Lear can't back up his claims". They'll continue to keep you in their "genius" basket.

thanks for the post. :)
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zorgon » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:12 am

[Mod Edit: this post is in reply to viewtopic.php?p=17571#p17571]


Chorlton wrote:You wont ask me because Ill point out your continued references to telling something big or revealing something important, "when people are ready" or "in the future" yet you never reveal anything, mereley posting more bluff and bluster and waiting for your adoring disciples to bail you out.


Well see now THAT is why I ignore you... You always twist words around to suit your own agenda. I never said "when people are ready"... I said when I have the time... People like you have it easy... you just simply shoot down every idea and call it BS without ever having to back up YOUR side...

But despite what you think of my opinions and research... it take a lot of free time to put together the material that I do, as everything I discuss is fully backed by links, photos and documents... You may not believe my evidence... (and I doubt seriously you ever follow a link to see what's there), but I do take the time to back up everything I say with links to the original source. So when I say 'later' it means just that.. later when I have had the time to properly prepare my 'next instalment'

:roll:

If my 'style' of writing bothers you... tough beans... its called freedom of the press and freedom of speech... and my style has certainly earned me enough applauds and points to make me understand that MANY people approve

In regards to: "yet you never reveal anything" let me give you a few examples... (for those that might be interested)

In the Stargates are Real thread we discuss the possibility of existing stargates... in that thread I posted two papers by the DoD and the AFRL.. talking about and research... STARGATES I will not post on that here save the link for any others that might be interested...

Teleportation Physics Study
DTIC Copy - AFRL-PR-ED-TR-2003-0034
APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION UNLIMITED

AIR FORCE RESEARCH LABORATORY
AIR FORCE MATERIEL COMMAND
EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE CA 93524-7048

and....

Teleportation via Wormhole-Stargates
U.S. Air Force Teleportation Physics Study

Eric W. Davis, Ph.D., FBIS
Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin
4030 W. Braker Lane, Ste. 300
Austin, TX 78759

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate ... ology.html

So if I am nuts for talking about Stargates... so is the DoD, LANL and the AFRL

I also posted a document from LANL (Los Alamos National Laboratory) that an ATS mod felt should be moved to Skunkworks...

Pegasus Document Release #003

Through the Looking Glass with Phase Conjugation
Fall 1982
Los Alamos National Laboratory

"Although the wormhole designs are at present theoretical, the technologies for making them already exist and are being studied to make invisibility shields which can cloak objects by bending light around them."

http://library.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/getfile?06-01.pdf

So you can make any opinion about me you like, but to say I never reveal anything is just an outright lie and only serves your agenda... and these are merely a couple examples. I have THOUSANDS of similar official documents that I have not yet had the time to look through

You wont ask me because you know Ill point out your total failure to question Loony Lear on his 'Soul catcher' or his gardens and waterfalls on the moon, or his other ideas of a secret space station. Those things alone put you in the 'crackpot' classification.


Now that would be really silly for me to ask you about those topics you just mentioned... I already KNOW your opinion... you have repeated it over and over in almost every thread on every subject I ever posted.. I do not see it likely that you have changed your mind...

And why would I need to ask John? We have lunch together almost every week and I have spent time at the mine... also I do the research on the topic John brings up and follow the clues and ask the sources.. and then post it... I would have thought that even you can add two and two...

John Lear... The Soul Catcher came from Sleeper... he has said so on several occasions
Research.... Many Native American legends tell that the Soul goes to the Moon...

I guess, in your view of the World, that would make these people 'loony' as well

John Lear... Water falls on the Moon...
Research.... DoD News Briefing April 1996 first released to the public on the web Oct 2006

"Q: What's the presumptive volume of it then, and how did you discern that?

A: As I mentioned, what we can tell from looking at the radar return is roughly the area that is covered by this. Assuming it reflects ice like ice on Mercury -- making that assumption. That's been well looked at. Then in order to see this back scatter effect, this roadside reflector effect; it's estimated that we have to see some number of wavelengths of our radar into the ice. In reviewing the paper, several of the reviewers posited we probably need to see somewhere between 50 and 100 wavelengths. So our wavelength is about six inches. So at the thickest case, it's roughly 50 feet.

Q: That translates to what in volume?

A: We were very conservative in the press release, but if you take basically 100 square kilometers by roughly 50 feet, you get a volume of something like a quarter of a cubic mile, I think it's on that order. It's a considerable amount, but it's not a huge glacier or anything like that.

Q: Can you compare that with something you know?

A: It's a lake. A small lake. "


So John says "waterfalls' DoD says "lake" I guess they are all 'loony' as well? (PS the paper also states that Clementine WAS a Starwars project)

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/ ... riptid=731

Why dont you simply go and play in your silly costumes and make believe you are something you are not, and never will be, then again you make believe you know something about space and satellites and that has yet to be proven.


What so only your viewpoint is heard? Yes I bet you would like that, but that smacks of suppression of free speech to me...

As to the 'silly costumes' my Medieval recreation group has raised several million dollars for charity and has acquired main stream media attention here in Las Vegas... Here is one article when we Knighted the Governor of Nevada Kenny Guinn and Sig Rogich...

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/ ... pvil99.jpg

As to the "King' thing... I have letters from two official government offices that have accepted this status... 8)

As to the "make believe you know something about space and satellites"

Well in the "Secret Shuttle Missions" thread I posted MISTY, and Budhasystem filled FIVE PAGES with BS to bury the post... it worked... I never posted the rest of the info.. but even one of your own here admitted to me privately I was right on that point, though declined to do so in public... (BTW I respect that choice and understand his reasons :wink: )

Since I started at ATS a little over a year ago and met John, I have since gotten a list of REAL contacts that would make most people's jaw drop... I know this concept irks you... I have letters from Space Command, Boeing, and even NASA... I have had 'visits' from the DoD and it wasn't an MIB... Most of these contacts came about because of my work at Pegasus and ATS... you would be amazed at what they have to say..

I would (and have) shared this... but what's the point?

Well I will toss in one... one that caught me off guard...


<rest of info deleted = non of your business :P >
Your web site is fabulous. Give my regards to John Lear. Thanks.

Russ Hamerly, PMP
Senior Project Manager
Boeing IT Services
W (xxx) xxx-xxxx


When someone of This Caliber makes a comment like that, trust me its worth a thousand Chorltons any day

you have no guts to go for.


I am here am I not? Not exactly 'friendly turf'

No, what I DON'T have time for is endless debate on the same point... You have made your position perfectly clear... (and I see no debate... only abusive statements that you are right and i am crazy) so what is to be gained by wasting my time attempting to convince you? Some people enjoy debate for the sake of debate... Not I... I started on this quest as a search for PERSONAL understanding... if along the way I share what I believe and show what I have found... and in that gather a group of like minded thinkers... well that is freedom of though, freedom of expression and freedom for those to chose whether to believe or not... and do their own research... As far as I know Britain still has those same rights?

:roll:

And you call people who chose to agree with me my 'adoring disciples' How rude... these people have the same right to believe as they chose to... and do I not find here a collection of your 'adoring disciples' with the opposing viewpoint? Forgive me if I fail to see the difference...


And as for your question to ITF, It was YOU supporting the idiotic ideas of 'space tethers' I seem to remember? That and Moon Mining?


First of all the question I asked ITF had to do with what he considered a SERIOUS UFO incident or Research... it had nothing to do with John Lear or anything else...

Space Tethers are real... I am surprized you do not know this...

Moon Mining? Try a simple google search at Colorado School of Mines, LPI and Norcat, the company that built the Extraterrestrial Bucket Wheel Excavator that we documented already

You really are a disgrace.


I will let the viewers and your peers make the call on who is the disgrace

Zorgon


{Mod Edit: oversized embedded image converted to link]
Last edited by Zorgon on Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby caleban » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:52 am

OK, now it is getting fun for me. Move over Ray. Lets get into the game now.

Legal and Scientific evidence are two different animals. Evidence in Law is
based upon the inter-relationship of people. How to deal with a reality that
can deceive, be deceived, and any manner of convolutions in between.

Evidence in science is based upon the reality that the universe is what
it is, cannot intentionally deceive or be deceived.

JohnLear is making a claim that is not yet clarified as to which reality
he wants to play in. The wording he uses is closer to the Legal Realm
than the Scientific one, as is his counter arguments. In the Legal
Realm, his belief can become a claim that can be resolved either
way depending on the whole case presented. Fortunately, that is
not how science is done.

First question to John. Are you making the claim that there is a
breathable atmosphere on the moon as your sworn testimony on
the witness stand ? If so, you may actually believe this to be legal
truth, and you are probably not alone.

Second question to John. Are you making this claim as a hypothesis
for science ? If so, the hypothesis is inherently testable, has been so
tested, and all such testing so far provides no data to support your
hypothesis. In order to submit your claim for a credible peer review,
you MUST provide the hypothesis test or testing that supports your
hypothesis against the counter hypothesis that has already been tested.
If you cannot do this, your claim reverts back to a belief and is not
scientifically acknowledgeable. If you can do this, then your place
is not here, which would certainly be wasting your time, but far better suited
to proper paper submittal all over the world. You would then become
famous, as opposed to infamy.

You make the challenge and then post what you would accept as final, incontrovertible, veridical evidence.


No. Ray cannot make a challenge. Only you can. You are challenging a hypothesis
that has been tested with no counter data. Your challenge HAS to have counter data
or it falls back to unsupported belief and remains there until you provide counter data.

You are a pilot. You use checklists. This is your checklist.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby lost_shaman » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:09 am

Zorgon wrote:John Lear... Water falls on the Moon...
Research.... DoD News Briefing April 1996 first released to the public on the web Oct 2006

"Q: What's the presumptive volume of it then, and how did you discern that?

A: As I mentioned, what we can tell from looking at the radar return is roughly the area that is covered by this. Assuming it reflects ice like ice on Mercury -- making that assumption. That's been well looked at. Then in order to see this back scatter effect, this roadside reflector effect; it's estimated that we have to see some number of wavelengths of our radar into the ice. In reviewing the paper, several of the reviewers posited we probably need to see somewhere between 50 and 100 wavelengths. So our wavelength is about six inches. So at the thickest case, it's roughly 50 feet.

Q: That translates to what in volume?

A: We were very conservative in the press release, but if you take basically 100 square kilometers by roughly 50 feet, you get a volume of something like a quarter of a cubic mile, I think it's on that order. It's a considerable amount, but it's not a huge glacier or anything like that.

Q: Can you compare that with something you know?

A: It's a lake. A small lake. "


So John says "waterfalls' DoD says "lake" I guess they are all 'loony' as well?


Zorgon,

I'm sorry but "assuming" that we are "looking" at "Ice", "making that assumption", kinda kills any potential for this evidence to be considered evidence of John's "waterfalls"! Whatdaya think? =P~
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