Nothing is real.....

Holographic Universe or Computer Simulation? Big Bang or God?

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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby dan » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:22 pm

AD,
Dan, there are many people who believe in God (either 'a' or 'the' deity) but don't believe in Jesus so clearly that's a religious issue. Point of fact, only 25 to 33% of the world's population are Christians.

However, you are certainly free to argue for the existence of God on whatever scientific or philosophical basis you wish in this forum and even discuss Spirituality since that's (or it should be) a non-denominational issue as well. Same with the UTH/ETH issue... it's predicated on the nature of the Universe.

If you can’t argue for the existence God without the presupposition of Jesus then I would suggest you don’t have a very compelling argument…

It’a a cart before the horse thing.

You are saying that Jesus is denominated, as in denominational.

A primary thrust of the BPWH is to 'undenominate' Jesus, i.e. it is to universalize Jesus, after all, I was raised as a unitarian/universalist.

So, no, I'm not putting the cart before the horse. I'm simply asking that if you were God, what would you do to show your face to the world? Or, first, would you show your face? Why or why not?
-------------------------

[AD, 10/23, 9:52p, responding to Aussie responding to me.] Now someone like Gary might interpret this to mean “Ah ha, doppelgangers exist!” or someone like Vallee might think “Ah ha, interdimensional beings exist!” or someone like Dan might think “Ah ha, Sophia exists!” but unfortunately what this really means is even if these other hypothetical Universes actually exist as anything other than mathematical constructs, never the twain shall meet.

The intellect strives for gnosis, of one sort or another.

By gnosis, I mean that, following Barfield, we are always striving to Save the Appearances, which is that we attempt to explain what is Present, by what is Absent.

(And, please, hold these thoughts, because I'll be out for most of the day.....)


(cont.)
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby simp » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:57 pm

Dan writes
My only contention here is that Jesus Christ represents the primary historical/cosmic link between the ego and the I AM.

Do you have a problem with this?


No. Not at all. Except that I recognize Jesus Christ and Buddha as primarily the same thing. Not persons so to speak, but perfect form or perfection itself. The conditions that led to their individual historical lives may have been different but essentially Jesus and Buddha are the same thing.

I hazard a guess that many of the ultraterrestial visitors are also this same perfected form
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby Gary » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:37 am

AD, here is a recent review of the large extra dimension idea:

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/100 ... 1162v1.pdf
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby Gary » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:08 am

And this just in...

Fermilab is Building a 'Holometer' to Determine Once and For All Whether Reality Is Just an Illusion

Researchers at Fermilab are building a “holometer” so they can disprove everything you thought you knew about the universe. More specifically, they are trying to either prove or disprove the somewhat mind-bending notion that the third dimension doesn’t exist at all, and that the 3-D universe we think we live in is nothing more than a hologram.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... t-hologram

And for more:

http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breakin ... -universe/
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby dan » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:26 pm

Simp,
No. Not at all. Except that I recognize Jesus Christ and Buddha as primarily the same thing. Not persons so to speak, but perfect form or perfection itself. The conditions that led to their individual historical lives may have been different, but essentially Jesus and Buddha are the same thing.

I hazard a guess that many of the ultraterrestial visitors are also this same perfected form.

Hmmm......., no.

BTW, we're not striving for perfection, we're striving for the best possible diversity. That's what we will achieve on the other side of 'disclosure'.

Simp, you fail to discern that I am presenting the world with a package deal, which is just the BPWH, wherein the J-man is the fulcrum of history. I'm modeling myself as the lever. Buddha, quite simply, and in that context, is an ahistorical figure. He has no historical traction, which, by definition, is found only in the Prophetic tradition. He had no interest in history or in the destiny of humanity. He was simply a transpersonal shrink. Good for him.

Jesus was the mainspring behind the egoic revolution in the West, which only now is taking over the world, in the form of the mass-media and the internet. I'm just on the mop-up crew. We do a transpersonal number on your nascent egos, in the form of eschatology. Siddhartha may be helpful there, but he has no personal or historical link to the Fulcrum, which is an absolute necessity, if you are looking for historical leverage.

This is also my answer to AD, in his supposition that I am simply a Jesus freak.

Yes, AD, I am that, but I am also a Jesus-freak on a mission. I have the BPWH intellectual lever, and I need a heart/fulcrum.

Yes? And I don't have to look very far, do I? Do you suggest that it would make any sense to substitute either Mohammed or Siddhartha? I don't see that there would be a snowball's chance.
----------------------

Not too shabby, IMHO. Be there or be square.....


3:00p---------------

And then there is this.....

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/234/043/ ... usion.html
------------------

Someday, I will find the groove. When I find it, to whom will you pray? Do any of you know how to pray? Have any of you ever prayed?

Do any of you have a soul? Who do you pray your soul to take?

Is their nothing greater than you? Is there an obstruction between you and your Maker? Who is your Maker? Or, are you a meat-machine?

Are you atoms swerving in the dark? Are you an absurdity in a meaningless universe?

Or, do you answer to a higher calling?

.
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby Access Denied » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:23 am

Gary wrote:AD, here is a recent review of the large extra dimension idea:

A millimeter or less in dimensions where only gravity exists doesn’t sound very “large” to me and what does this have to with “Nothing is real”?

Gary wrote:Fermilab is Building a 'Holometer' to Determine Once and For All Whether Reality Is Just an Illusion

Interesting, I would be surprised if spacetime is quantized though.

Catching up with Dan…

dan wrote:If there is a God, then God has chosen to hide behind the veil of nature. Where else or how else could God possibly hide from us?

How is a hidden God distinguishable from no God at all?

dan wrote:Are you suggesting that Creation would have been better had it appeared to be less natural, and more artificial?

It would definitely be more convincing, that is assuming God actually wants his Children to worship Him so that we might not have to suffer down here for his Entertainment.

dan wrote:All I'm saying is that if the Visitors turn out to be UT's, rather than ET's, then we'll have to consider the likelihood that the heavens are part of a holographic/dream-like projection, and not an objectively physical universe. Yes, the UTH would tend to turn the tables on Copernicus, despite all appearances to the contrary.

What if the Visitors turn out to be holographic/dream-like projections of our own minds?

dan wrote:The veil of nature, and its attendant scientific and technological revolution has played an essential part in our spiritual evolution.

So why stop now?

dan wrote:Would you have preferred a Creation where technology, astronomy, medicine, etc., were impossible or unnecessary?

Like Heaven?

dan wrote:Does this mean that God has deceived us? If so, it has been a very felicitous and productive deception. Yes?

Except for all the unnecessary suffering and death…

dan wrote:Would you have preferred a Creation with perpetual material progress. Does that even make sense?

If the end result is Nirvana, why not, and how do you know that’s not actually what God intended?

dan wrote:Yes, AD, my sojourn into Science and Astronomy has greatly expanded my spirit, but, by the same token, I am now able to see the power of science as only a shadow of the infinite power of the Spirit.

So what we really need to do is sit around and sing Kumbayah and that will solve all the world’s problems?

dan wrote:What I don't get, AD, is the motivation behind your denial of Spirit?

Define spirit?

[note I’m not the first one to ask you this question]

Why do you feel the need to appeal to a conspicuously absent Creator and the supernatural to make you feel Spiritual and whole?

[that’s a rhetorical question by the way]

dan wrote:Are you fearful of the infinite Potency of Spirit? Are you afraid of the Divine power locked in your soul? Are you afraid to open that Pandora's box?

If only it was that easy…

dan wrote:Would you actually prefer a world without spirit?

I would actually prefer a world without pseudoscience and superstition.

dan wrote:Or, more likely, aren't you afraid to lend any credence to spirit, out of your fear that your hopes might subsequently prove groundless?

What has God done for you lately?

dan wrote:It is natural to not want to get your hopes up, and then have them trampled by the 'facts'. Yes?

Reality’s a bitch sometimes isn’t it?

dan wrote:It is much safer, emotionally and psychologically, to never entertain any Great Expectations. Yes?

It’s even harder to do the work necessary to accomplish Great Things.

dan wrote:So, like the blushing damsel, you play hard-to-get, with respect to the Spirit. That is a perfectly understandable strategy. The harder I pursue you with the possibility of Hope, the greater will be your motivation to resist all such entreaties. But the only one you are actually fooling is yourself.

How can you be sure?

dan wrote:All those wonderful, cosmic pictures that you posted, above......

Well, I went to see The Wiz, yesterday. It strikes me that your posting is a bit like sprinkling Holy water on the Wicked Witch of the West! It's rather like whistling past the graveyard. No?!

Yes, that analogy explains the entirety of Modern Civilization and it's idolatry of the alleged Ultimacy of the Physical/Material aspect of reality. It is simply the Horde of hubristic intellectuals hoping to whistle their way around the Eschaton.

You mean the alleged Eschaton that you conveniently predict will occur some 200 years from now so that nobody can say “I told you so”?

What’s the matter Dan, afraid to go out on a limb and make a testable prediction?

dan wrote:They are Sore-afraid that they will, one fine morning, wake up to the fact that our hopes and fears of all the years are finally about to be Realized!

You mean like getting caught with our proverbial pants down by a viral outbreak or rogue comet?

dan wrote:Is there any more powerful fear than the fear of God?

The fear of Death.

dan wrote:There is a more powerful force; it is the love of God, but some folks have not allowed themselves to experience that. They are afraid of being left at the Altar. It has happened, or so I'm told.

“Whatever gets you through the night 'salright, 'salright”
- John Lennon, More Popular Than Jesus

dan wrote:I'm simply asking that if you were God, what would you do to show your face to the world?

I’d have to say something more recent than say an anecdotal account of a resurrection some 2,000 years ago before Science could confirm whether or not such an alleged Miracle did in fact occur or something more convincing than say Jesus in a piece of toast.

Failing that, I suppose many would settle for this…

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends,
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends.
So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV?
Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me,
I wait for delivery each day until three.
So oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV?

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town?
I'm counting on you Lord, please don't let me down,
Prove that you love me and buy the next round.
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town?


Better yet, how about a winning lottery ticket? One that just fell into my lap because Lord knows gambling is a Sin and I don’t gamble so I can’t meet Him halfway and buy one right?
Men go and come but Earth abides.
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby Gary » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:23 am

AD: "A millimeter or less in dimensions where only gravity exists doesn’t sound very “large” to me and what does this have to with “Nothing is real”?"

Not only gravity: an infinite sandwich of parallel worlds (not Level I,II, III or IV worlds, but membranes) -- each with independent physics, except for gravitational forces which penetrate through all of them (and potentially connect them to each other via gravity waves, see string theorist Brian Greene's PBS special).

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/el ... sions.html
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby dan » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:55 pm

And, Gary,

In all the phantasmagoria of epiphenomenal epicycles, with which these heroic materialists and desperate physicalists attempt to save a few tawdry appearances; please, tell us in which of these uncountable infinity of (mem)branes, or other mathematical concoctions, do our dreams reside? Or, perchance, when dreaming, is it we who are being dreamt?

I would be able to take your desperate physicalists with a modicum of seriousness if just one of them ever admitted to having seriously considered an alternate worldview. Penrose took a half a step in that direction, once upon a time, and then, apparently, recoiled in sheer terror.

Does this inspire your confidence, Gary?

You, Gary, run around like the proverbial chicken in the barnyard, latching on to whatever are the latest and most outlandish crumbs to drop off their beards. Perhaps you ought to get a life!

Perhaps, Gary, for once in your life, you ought to entertain one of your own insights about the nature of reality.

You and AD make quite a pair, here: sprinkling holy water wherever you see a Ghost.

.
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby dan » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:15 pm

Ad,
I’d have to say something more recent than say an anecdotal account of a resurrection some 2,000 years ago before Science could confirm whether or not such an alleged Miracle did in fact occur or something more convincing than say Jesus in a piece of toast.

By making this one, seemingly innocuous, statement, you merely indicate your total imbecility wrt the BPWH.

If God had, in the meantime, shown her face with any greater definition, then there would have been no science. We would have spent the last two-thousand years huddled in the one Universal Catholic Church.

Instead, we have been treated to the ego explosions of science and materialism. What a spectacle!

Yes, God allowed us to steal some of her lightning, all the better to fatten our egos for the Harvest.

You mean the alleged Eschaton that you conveniently predict will occur some 200 years from now so that nobody can say “I told you so”?

What’s the matter Dan, afraid to go out on a limb and make a testable prediction?

In school, AD, did you ever do any homework, or have you always just winged it?

In c. 200 years, the Eschaton will have been completed.

It will begin on the day that the mass media get serious about an alternative to scientific materialism.

If this is the BPW, then that seriousness will have to emerge prior to a more significant die-back.

.
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:57 pm

Dan,

dan wrote:Instead, we have been treated to the ego explosions of science and materialism. What a spectacle!

Yes, God allowed us to steal some of her lightning, all the better to fatten our egos for the Harvest.


I don't think there is a single person here who would not agree that your ego is sufficiently fattened-up and ready for harvest.

Foie Dan?
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby dan » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:29 pm

Foie-gras?
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby murnut » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:40 am

Don't use those slides.

It's a mistake
"The Conformers are hard to read. They are rocks."
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:13 am

Dan,

Please check your PM and respond if you care. Had dinner with Caryn last night and she mentioned a few things that interested me, and she suggested I talk with you directly. Don't know if you want to talk about it on the forum, hence my decision to PM it.

Thanks,
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby dan » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:22 pm

Ray has promised to call me Wednesday, on his return from the UK.

I have explained to him, as I have to others, that there is very little of general interest in the hospital/ER experience, besides its contextual strangeness. It did precipitate the end of my struggle with employment, but, otherwise, it has had no known or lasting personal effect.

.
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Re: Nothing is real.....

Postby Access Denied » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:59 am

In another thread Dan asked...

dan wrote:AD,

Do you agree that Modern civilization, qua Scientific Materialism (SM), is a sand-castle built upon the foundational notion that reality may be explained by 'atoms swerving in the dark'?

Do you understand that SM is like a virgin: one paranormal prick, and it's all gone?

AD, are you putting your faith in this CSICOP/SM version of reality?

If not, please remind us what exactly is your take on the nature of Reality.

You may answer this on the Reality thread, if you like.

.

It doesn't matter what my take on Reality is, I'm only concerned with that which can be determined based on the evidence at hand. Beyond that I have no clue...

Surely your God would understand this?
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